Russia warns NATO against re-equipping Georgia's military

What the hell is all that crap?

Russia warns NATO against re-equipping Georgia's military
Advertisements [?]Source: Xinhua


BRUSSELS, Aug. 20 (Xinhua) -- Russia's ambassador to NATO Dmitry Rogozin warned Wednesday NATO against filling the gap of losses of the Georgian military incurred in its conflict with Russia.

"Any attempt of NATO to fill the gap of losses of the Georgian army contradicts the conventions of the OSCE (Organization of Security and Cooperation in Europe)," Rogozin told reporters.

All NATO countries, Russia and Georgia are members of the OSCE.

He said the provision of strategic armament to Georgia and the flight of NATO reconnaissance planes along Russia's borders as requested by Georgia are regarded as hostile actions to Russia.

He warned that these actions may make Russia change its position on its relationship with the West, including military cooperation and on Moscow's policy on Iran.




Read more: [link to news.xinhuanet.com]

IT LOOKS LIKE RUSSIANS ARE TAKING ONE STEP BACK.

THEY ARE LOOKING FOR ESCAPE DOORS.

Why do people conveniently overlook the fact, REPEATEDLY, that Georgia attacked Ossetia, they threw the first punch.

Hello???????????

Why do people conveniently overlook the fact, REPEATEDLY, that Georgia attacked Ossetia, they threw the first punch.

Hello???????????


[link to georgiandaily.com]

RUSSIA’S DISINFORMATION CAMPAIGN OVER SOUTH OSSETIA

RUSSIA’S DISINFORMATION CAMPAIGN OVER SOUTH OSSETIA Print E-mail
August 20, 2008

Central Asia-Caucasus Institute Analyst
August 20, 2008

By Robert M. Cutler

With Georgian government websites shut down by cyber-attacks in the days immediately preceding hostilities, the Russian story of its army coming to the defense of South Ossetia in the face of Georgian assault gained currency. This script is still often invoked as a preface to any commentary or reportage on current developments. However, as facts begin to surface, it is increasingly revealed as a propaganda strategy planned in advance and contradicted by evidence on the ground, by the testimony of neutral observers, and by the increasingly transparent cynicism of its purveyors.

BACKGROUND: From the very beginning of military clashes on the night of 7-8 August, there has been a concerted Russian effort to vilify President Mikheil Saakashvili as a war criminal. In the first days of the conflict, Russian media repeatedly cited a figure of 2,000 civilian casualties in Tskhinvali city and up to 40,000 refugees (out of a maximum 70,000 total population in South Ossetia of all ethnicities). It was on this basis that not only Russian media but also the highest Russian leaders repeatedly condemned Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili as a war criminal guilty of ethnic cleansing, and promised prosecution in international courts. These claims have faded in recent days, because they have been shown to be false by systematic investigations by Human Rights Watch as well as by the aggregated testimony of foreign reporters who have entered the region since the Russian occupation. In a twist, Georgia has filed a brief before the International Court of Justice charging Russia with conducting and abetting ethnic cleansing of Georgians from South Ossetia and Abkhazia from 1990 to the present.

There is a general view that Georgia assaulted South Ossetia before Russian troops invaded. A detailed timeline provided by Georgia’s Prime Minister Lado Gurgenidze during an international telephone press conference disputes that assertion, however. This view is corroborated in most part by several independent sources, and an independent Washington Post reconstruction of events concludes that the Georgian assault on Tskhinvali and the Russian tank column’s emergence from the Georgian end of the cross-border Roki Tunnel could only have been minutes apart at most. Roughly 150 Russian vehicles including armored personnel carriers got through before Georgian forces were able to mount an only partially successful attack on the crucial bridge at Kurta linking the Roki Tunnel with Tskhinvali.

It seems inescapable that Russian tanks must have been on the road from Vladikavkaz, North Ossetia, for some time in order to cross the 100 miles of mountain roads to reach South Ossetia when they did. Novaya gazeta’s respected military analyst Pavel Felgenhauer is only one of several writers who have documented how the Russian invasion is only the culmination of a months-long series of provocations as well as strategic and tactical on-the-ground preparations, for example the construction and equipment of a base near the city of Java, northwest of Tskhinvali, as a refueling depot for Russian armor moving southwards. This should be added to the better-known “railroad repair” troops sent to Abkhazia in recent weeks, who are reliably reported to have constructed tank-launching facilities. The ceremony completing the railway repair was held as late as July 30.

IMPLICATIONS: Reports of fighting on 8 August, for which Russian media were the chief origin, asserted that Georgian forces entered Tskhinvali city early in the day, were then driven back by Russian troops who were said to retake the city, and finally returned to seize parts of the city’s southern outskirts before being repelled for good. However, according to subsequent reports by civilians in Tskhinvali, the Russians never occupied the city; rather, it was combined artillery and aerial bombing that drove the Georgians out of the city. According to Georgian sources, this bombardment was extremely intense and lasted for all the time Georgian forces were in Tskhinvali from dawn on 8 August until just before noon, and continued even afterwards, intensifying again when Georgian forces attempted to re-enter the city later in the day.

Among the weapons systems used by the Russian forces were Uragan and Grad artillery. The latter is the same system that Georgian military affirmed using against Russian military posts outlying Tskhinvali late on the night of 7 August, after Russian armor entered Georgia through the Roki Tunnel. Both sides as well as local observers agree that there was massive aerial bombardment during the day of the eighth. Moreover, American military training provided to the Georgian army over the last few years appears to have concentrated on counterinsurgency tactics, in view of Tbilisi’s contribution of troops to the Iraq conflict.

Given Russian air superiority in the region, it is difficult to suppose that the heavy aerial bombardment of Tskhinvali city came from the Georgian side. Russian sources blame the destruction exclusively on the Georgian artillery assault on the night of 7-8 August, but surviving city dwellers seem to indicate that the Georgian assault was concentrated on the administrative quarters of the Russian-backed South Ossetian separatists, as well as communications links and the like. By contrast, if observers’ reports are to be believed, the degree of devastation visited upon the city by nightfall on 8 August (after Russian bombardment had driven the Georgians from the city) is paralleled in recent history only by the leveling of Grozny in the Second Chechen War of the 1990s.

The Russian side’s signature of consecutive ceasefire agreements without any visible attempt to implement them may also be charitably described as disinformation. This pattern of behavior was first clearly revealed several days ago when, after the Russian and Georgian presidents had both signed French president Nicolas Sarkozy’s six-point ceasefire document, the Russian military began to withdraw from Gori and then, as soon as international media began to report this, literally reversed gear and moved back. As Western video journalists reported live, Russian troops then continued to attack nonmilitary establishments (the nearest military target is a base eight miles outside Gori) while appearing to coordinate with Ossetian and other North Caucasus irregulars who looted property and even abducted civilians.

CONCLUSIONS: What is remarkable about the Russian information policy on the war against Georgia is its failure to adapt to the twenty-first century information environment. Even Russia’s U.N. Ambassador Vitalii Churkin has lost the charisma that he radiated twenty years ago when, during the heyday of glasnost and perestroika, he became the first Soviet ambassador to Washington to testify to a Congressional committee. Russia’s political leaders hold no spontaneous interviews even with representatives of Russian media. By contrast, Saakashvili’s presence on CNN and other western stations, and his and the Georgian leadership’s command of foreign languages, have enabled them to get their message across effectively.

Late on the night of 18 August, Tbilisi time, the Georgian Ministry of Defense posted a statement (hosted on blogspot.com because of continuing infrastructure and cyberattacks against official Tbilisi websites), saying simply: “It is absolutely obvious to the international community that the Russian Federation chose destruction of economy with the use of military force and ethnic cleansing as an instrument for implementing its foreign policy.” The credibility of the Georgian message is enhanced not only by reports from foreign journalists on the ground but also by an entirely new element in the information environment: the aggregate of amateur eyewitness reports on youtube.com, ireport.com, and other vlog (video-logging) dedicated websites.

AUTHOR’S BIO: Robert M. Cutler is Senior Research Fellow, Institute of European, Russian and Eurasian Studies, Carleton University, Canada.

[link to georgiandaily.com]

What the hell is all that crap?




WHEN TRUTH SMACKS YOU IN THE FACE, CHANGE THE SUBJECT

In the wake of Georgia’s current internal conflict, an old foe has again reared its head. It seems that The Kremlin, reinvigorated by the influx of capital the oil market has afforded, seems to be reasserting its place on the world stage. The positions of The West in general and The U.S. in particular are now in play. We must take a firm stand in defense of those we call allies. If we would not tolerate an Iraqi invasion of Kuwait we ought not to tolerate a Russian invasion of Georgia; such is the burden of the power we possess and the moral high ground we so often claim. Though this may not be the opportune time for such a showdown, we cannot show weakness in the face of a reemerging Russian threat, especially when Russia seems to be aligning with hostile nations in the middle east such as Syria. This drama may well set the balance of world power in the 21st century. We must not shy from the challenge.

JVS

... we cannot show weakness in the face of a reemerging Russian threat, especially when Russia seems to be aligning with hostile nations in the middle east such as Syria.

Why do people conveniently overlook the fact, REPEATEDLY, that Georgia attacked Ossetia, they threw the first punch.

Hello???????????

... we cannot show weakness in the face of a reemerging Russian threat, especially when Russia seems to be aligning with hostile nations in the middle east such as Syria.




Ummmm....when exactly has Syria attacked or threatened the US?

I suppose that's another ME nation planning to attack us with her navy and air force fleets.

Note to self: must watch out for Syrian attack in the US.

.

You are exactly correct. However, the true importance of this fact is not "who started what", but rather the fact that there is no way Georgia launched that attack with out a go ahead from the U.S.

Were they a willing participant in the larger scheme (with some future payoff for their cooperation)? Or just the unwitting dupes of the game W. and Putin are now playing?

Two observations of note: Rice would not comment at all (and even looked a little scared) when asked if the U.S. had given Georgia the go ahead to attack. Also, during her visit to Tblisi, there seemed to be as much anger directed towards her from Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili as there was towards Russia.

Syria embraces terrorism - hezbollah & others. If you are waiting for an attack on the US by Syria itself you don't comprehend what terrorism is about. It would be extremely difficult to pin the blame on a particular country and that's what countries like Syria are counting on.

So nice to see you TX PATRIOT. Always the voice of reason, I appreciate that, especially in a sea of lies and propaganda.

Georgia is a soveriegn nation. They can procure weapons from anyone they like.

So nice to see you TX PATRIOT. Always the voice of reason, I appreciate that, especially in a sea of lies and propaganda.







Hello to you, AC! Just trying to keep it real in here. I followed news reports as the initial events in S Ossetia unfolded and were first reported...many raw reports. Within 24 hours, there was an onslaught of about face reporting and in-your-face "Russia is the enemy" propaganda...much of it didn't even make sense. The reports are a little more refined now, but we have been completely blasted with the same message since.

I believe there is sin on both sides; however, I refuse to be manipulated in the blatant manner in which they are attempting and for agendas far outside the S Ossetian v Georgia separatism conflict.

Just gotta keep it real.

Best to you.

.

They created a pretext HOW? They didn't start this. U.S.-controlled Georgia launched the brutal attack on Russian civilians and then Russia retaliated.

What the hell is all that crap?




WHEN TRUTH SMACKS YOU IN THE FACE, CHANGE THE SUBJECT

This was pre-planned between the U.S. and Russia, for the political benefit of both. For the American Neocons, the primary benefit and likely objective is to bolster the election chances for John McCain; although I don't rule out other more nefarious objectives.

Do not underestimate the depths of this evil that threatens us.

I wonder if creating a pretext to invade and savage your neighbors "contradicts the conventions of the OSCE"??

As far as Iran - Russia has been a thorn in the side of the west on Iran - even supplying their nuclear fuel. Fuck 'em - at least we know who our enemy is..


Yeah not your neighbors.. at least do your dirty work a few countries away.


"Neighbors" don't run you over with a tank. Good luck with the appeasement..

In the wake of Georgia’s current internal conflict, an old foe has again reared its head. It seems that The Kremlin, reinvigorated by the influx of capital the oil market has afforded, seems to be reasserting its place on the world stage. The positions of The West in general and The U.S. in particular are now in play. We must take a firm stand in defense of those we call allies. If we would not tolerate an Iraqi invasion of Kuwait we ought not to tolerate a Russian invasion of Georgia; such is the burden of the power we possess and the moral high ground we so often claim. Though this may not be the opportune time for such a showdown, we cannot show weakness in the face of a reemerging Russian threat, especially when Russia seems to be aligning with hostile nations in the middle east such as Syria. This drama may well set the balance of world power in the 21st century. We must not shy from the challenge.

JVS

They created a pretext HOW? They didn't start this. U.S.-controlled Georgia launched the brutal attack on Russian civilians and then Russia retaliated.

1. Georgia is a US ally, not US-controlled.

2. Russia has a big part of the blame for helping out the separatists and giving them citizenship. It was the first step towards a conflict between the 2 countries. And it was taken with full understanding of the implications.

This was pre-planned between the U.S. and Russia, for the political benefit of both. For the American Neocons, the primary benefit and likely objective is to bolster the election chances for John McCain; although I don't rule out other more nefarious objectives.

Do not underestimate the depths of this evil that threatens us.
Quoting: Axiom-Io

quote:89446 No it wasn't.

I believe there is sin on both sides; however, I refuse to be manipulated in the blatant manner in which they are attempting and for agendas far outside the S Ossetian v Georgia separatism conflict.

Just gotta keep it real.