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BREAKING: RUSSIA SCALES DOWN GEORGIAN DEATH TOLL FIGURES::: ONLY 133 DIED IN SOUTH OSSETIA!!!!!!

 
Nightshade 09
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08/21/2008 10:32 PM
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BREAKING: RUSSIA SCALES DOWN GEORGIAN DEATH TOLL FIGURES::: ONLY 133 DIED IN SOUTH OSSETIA!!!!!!
BBC News Aug 20th, 2008 Link At Bottom

Russia scales down Georgia toll

Russia has issued new, reduced casualty figures for the Georgian conflict, with 133 civilians now listed as dead in the disputed region of South Ossetia.

The figure is far lower than the 1,600 people Russia initially said had died.

Prosecutors say they have opened a case against Georgia for genocide, while Tbilisi has already filed charges of ethnic cleansing against Moscow.

The move comes as the first international aid group arrived in the disputed region since the fighting.

The seven-member team from the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) includes a doctor, a specialist on civil protection, and a water and sanitation engineer.

The conflict broke out on 7 August when Georgia launched an assault to wrest back control of the Moscow-backed separatist region of South Ossetia, triggering a counter-offensive by Russian troops who advanced beyond South Ossetia into Georgia's heartland.

Georgia says its action was in response to continuous provocation.

Both sides have accused the other of violating an EU-brokered peace plan agreed at the weekend, and correspondents say there has been little sign of any large-scale withdrawal by Moscow.

Severe destruction

Following an investigation in South Ossetia and amongst refugees who fled to Russia, Moscow says it now has a list of the names of 133 civilians who died in South Ossetia.

Teams working in the region gathered information from relatives and local officials; their list includes those whose bodies investigators found themselves and information from reburial ceremonies they attended, Moscow says.

Please turn on JavaScript. Media requires JavaScript to play.

Clive Myrie talks to people in Russian-controlled territory in Georgia

The prosecutors reported finding many hastily dug graves in gardens - and said it would not be clear how many more dead were buried there until thousands of refugees return home.

The death toll from the war and its aftermath has yet to be independently determined.

On Wednesday, South Ossetian officials said 1,492 civilians had been killed.

The US-based group Human Rights Watch told the BBC its own investigation suggests that dozens of people had died there, rather than thousands, although it did document indiscriminate shelling and severe destruction in residential areas of the capital, Tskhinvali.



Moscow says 64 of its servicemen have been killed and more than 300 wounded in the conflict in Georgia, fewer dead than it has said previously but more wounded.

Georgia says it lost 160 soldiers, with another 300 missing.

Last week Georgia said it had filed a case against Russia on charges of ethnic cleansing at the International Court of Justice (ICJ), which rules on disputes between nations.

Meanwhile the International Criminal Court said it was conducting an analysis of the conflict over potential war crimes - but that it was stopping short of an investigation.

Chief prosecutor Luis Moreno-Ocampo said in a statement that his office had been "closely monitoring all information on the situation" including reports on attacks on civilians.

Slow withdrawal

Meanwhile at the United Nations, Russia's ambassador said a Security Council resolution went against the terms of the ceasefire brokered by France's President Nicolas Sarkozy.

The draft text called on Russia to pull back its forces to the positions held before the current conflict.

But Russia said the truce allows its troops to stay in a buffer zone on the Georgia side of South Ossetia's border.

Vitaly Churkin objected to language in the draft reaffirming Georgia's territorial integrity, saying South Ossetia and Abkhazia did not want to be part of Georgia.

Russia says President Dmitry Medvedev has said that by Friday, Russian troops would either be sent home, be pulled back to South Ossetia or to a buffer zone along the border.

[link to news.bbc.co.uk]

Last Edited by Phennommennonn on 08/16/2012 10:33 PM
"In a time of deceit telling the truth is revolutionary act." - George Orwell
Anonymous Coward
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08/21/2008 10:35 PM
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Re: BREAKING: RUSSIA SCALES DOWN GEORGIAN DEATH TOLL FIGURES::: ONLY 133 DIED IN SOUTH OSSETIA!!!!!!
133, the shit is hitting the fan.

133 is the magic number.
Anonymous Coward
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08/21/2008 10:35 PM
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Re: BREAKING: RUSSIA SCALES DOWN GEORGIAN DEATH TOLL FIGURES::: ONLY 133 DIED IN SOUTH OSSETIA!!!!!!
How is 133 the magic number?

And do you really actually believe the BBC?

For all we know Russia could be telling the pure truth.
Anonymous Coward
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08/21/2008 10:38 PM
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Re: BREAKING: RUSSIA SCALES DOWN GEORGIAN DEATH TOLL FIGURES::: ONLY 133 DIED IN SOUTH OSSETIA!!!!!!
Why can't they all just get along?
Anonymous Coward
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08/21/2008 10:38 PM
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Re: BREAKING: RUSSIA SCALES DOWN GEORGIAN DEATH TOLL FIGURES::: ONLY 133 DIED IN SOUTH OSSETIA!!!!!!
How is 133 the magic number?

And do you really actually believe the BBC?

For all we know Russia could be telling the pure truth.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 483120


It is the go sign. It has nothing to do with who says what or if they are telling the truth or not, it is the fact that, that number is in the media. It does not really matter how it gets there.
LS

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08/21/2008 10:43 PM
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Re: BREAKING: RUSSIA SCALES DOWN GEORGIAN DEATH TOLL FIGURES::: ONLY 133 DIED IN SOUTH OSSETIA!!!!!!
surprise, surprise, surprise,
MAKA = Make America Kind Again
Anonymous Coward
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08/22/2008 12:04 AM
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Re: BREAKING: RUSSIA SCALES DOWN GEORGIAN DEATH TOLL FIGURES::: ONLY 133 DIED IN SOUTH OSSETIA!!!!!!
bump
Ashkenazi Girl

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08/22/2008 05:15 PM
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Re: BREAKING: RUSSIA SCALES DOWN GEORGIAN DEATH TOLL FIGURES::: ONLY 133 DIED IN SOUTH OSSETIA!!!!!!
don't say that too loud...
there are many here who still believe its 2000
“Prepare your proof before you argue”
- Jewish Proverb

okay, this is me [link to profiles.yahoo.com]
Nightshade 09  (OP)

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08/22/2008 05:27 PM
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Re: BREAKING: RUSSIA SCALES DOWN GEORGIAN DEATH TOLL FIGURES::: ONLY 133 DIED IN SOUTH OSSETIA!!!!!!
133 is rather high but know that within any military engagement there is bound to be collatural damage civilian death (in my opinion one is enough.)

The whole justification the Russians gave for invasion of Georiga was that Georgian Forces were committing genocide in the South O. That Georgians were slaughtering innocent Russians. Russia claimed that South O's capital was LEVEL bombed by Georiga (pr oven false by AP reporters and Human Rights Watch), then they claimed 1600- 2000 South O's murdered by Georigan Forces. Human Rights Watch reported they found 30-40.

Now the Russians themselves are forced to admit there were only 133 dead.

There entire justification for the Invasion of Georgia has now been pr oven to be a lie.

Russia has no moral ground to stay in Georiga any longer! Yet, this WHOLE thing wasn't about South O, it wasn't about protecting lives. It was about land grabbing, about forcing Georiga to remain in Russia and to crush the dreams and wishes of the Georigan People to became apart of the Free and Democratic West.

Nightshade 09
"In a time of deceit telling the truth is revolutionary act." - George Orwell
Ashkenazi Girl

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08/22/2008 05:32 PM
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Re: BREAKING: RUSSIA SCALES DOWN GEORGIAN DEATH TOLL FIGURES::: ONLY 133 DIED IN SOUTH OSSETIA!!!!!!
and even though Russia claims they completely withdrew,
we all know better than to believe it.
“Prepare your proof before you argue”
- Jewish Proverb

okay, this is me [link to profiles.yahoo.com]
Anonymous Coward
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08/22/2008 05:48 PM
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Re: BREAKING: RUSSIA SCALES DOWN GEORGIAN DEATH TOLL FIGURES::: ONLY 133 DIED IN SOUTH OSSETIA!!!!!!
War killed 1,492 Ossetians - local officials

... | Print version AFP Photo / Natalia Kolesnikova August 21, 2008, 0:12 War killed 1,492 Ossetia ns - local officials Officials in South Ossetia have given a figure for the number of people killed during Georgia's failed military offensive to win control of the region. Authorities in the capital Tskhinvali say 1,492 Ossetia ns lost their lives in the conflict. According to Anatoly Nogovitsyn, Deputy Chief of Staff ... full news conference click here. Meanwhile, more than 5,000 people from South Ossetia are still in refugee camps in the south of Russia. Approximately 30,000 ... Jewish neighbourhood trashed It was not only South Ossetia ns who suffered as a result of Georgia's attack on Tskhinvali. An entire Jewish neighbourhood ... Russia's Emergencies Ministry says it needs the help of local people to rebuild South Ossetia 's devastated infrastructure. Progress is being made and restoration work is in full swing, with ... again.
[link to www.russiatoday.com]
[link to www.russiatoday.com]
Ashkenazi Girl

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08/22/2008 06:01 PM
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Re: BREAKING: RUSSIA SCALES DOWN GEORGIAN DEATH TOLL FIGURES::: ONLY 133 DIED IN SOUTH OSSETIA!!!!!!
War killed 1,492 Ossetians - local officials

... | Print version AFP Photo / Natalia Kolesnikova August 21, 2008, 0:12 War killed 1,492 Ossetia ns - local officials Officials in South Ossetia have given a figure for the number of people killed during Georgia's failed military offensive to win control of the region. Authorities in the capital Tskhinvali say 1,492 Ossetia ns lost their lives in the conflict. According to Anatoly Nogovitsyn, Deputy Chief of Staff ... full news conference click here. Meanwhile, more than 5,000 people from South Ossetia are still in refugee camps in the south of Russia. Approximately 30,000 ... Jewish neighbourhood trashed It was not only South Ossetia ns who suffered as a result of Georgia's attack on Tskhinvali. An entire Jewish neighbourhood ... Russia's Emergencies Ministry says it needs the help of local people to rebuild South Ossetia 's devastated infrastructure. Progress is being made and restoration work is in full swing, with ... again.
[link to www.russiatoday.com]
[link to www.russiatoday.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 487818

i rest my case...
“Prepare your proof before you argue”
- Jewish Proverb

okay, this is me [link to profiles.yahoo.com]
Anonymous Coward
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08/22/2008 06:07 PM
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Re: BREAKING: RUSSIA SCALES DOWN GEORGIAN DEATH TOLL FIGURES::: ONLY 133 DIED IN SOUTH OSSETIA!!!!!!
and even though Russia claims they completely withdrew,
we all know better than to believe it.
 Quoting: Ashkenazi Girl
"we", would that be all the people in your head?
Ashkenazi Girl

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08/22/2008 06:13 PM
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Re: BREAKING: RUSSIA SCALES DOWN GEORGIAN DEATH TOLL FIGURES::: ONLY 133 DIED IN SOUTH OSSETIA!!!!!!
and even though Russia claims they completely withdrew,
we all know better than to believe it.
"we", would that be all the people in your head?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 489239

no, it'll be those crotch crickets in your pants
“Prepare your proof before you argue”
- Jewish Proverb

okay, this is me [link to profiles.yahoo.com]
Anonymous Coward
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08/22/2008 06:16 PM
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Re: BREAKING: RUSSIA SCALES DOWN GEORGIAN DEATH TOLL FIGURES::: ONLY 133 DIED IN SOUTH OSSETIA!!!!!!
133, the shit is hitting the fan.

133 is the magic number.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 488649


Many more buried in home graves...

Wait till the refugees come home...
Anonymous Coward
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08/22/2008 06:20 PM
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Re: BREAKING: RUSSIA SCALES DOWN GEORGIAN DEATH TOLL FIGURES::: ONLY 133 DIED IN SOUTH OSSETIA!!!!!!
and even though Russia claims they completely withdrew,
we all know better than to believe it.
 Quoting: Ashkenazi Girl


Russia hasnt claimed complete withdraw. A column of T-92 (?) tanks withdrew back to Russia, according to intl observers. Much of the surge troops have withdrawn from Georgia proper, Russia says. But they also say that troops are enforcing a buffer zone inside Georgia proper, but Tbisi says it doesnt recognize no stinkin buffer zone,,,,
Ashkenazi Girl

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Re: BREAKING: RUSSIA SCALES DOWN GEORGIAN DEATH TOLL FIGURES::: ONLY 133 DIED IN SOUTH OSSETIA!!!!!!
and even though Russia claims they completely withdrew,
we all know better than to believe it.


Russia hasnt claimed complete withdraw. A column of T-92 (?) tanks withdrew back to Russia, according to intl observers. Much of the surge troops have withdrawn from Georgia proper, Russia says. But they also say that troops are enforcing a buffer zone inside Georgia proper, but Tbisi says it doesnt recognize no stinkin buffer zone,,,,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 488414

Russia says withdrawal complete
[link to news.bbc.co.uk]

Russia says it has fulfilled a pledge to withdraw its combat troops from Georgia in line with a ceasefire deal.

But Moscow says it intends to maintain a peacekeeping presence of 2,500 troops in "buffer zones" around the breakaway regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

The Georgian government has denounced the move as unacceptable.

The White House said checkpoints and buffer zones were "definitely not part of the agreement", and called for an immediate withdrawal of Russian troops.

The "buffer zones" extend far beyond any pre-existing security zones, and the BBC's diplomatic correspondent, Jonathan Marcus, says Western diplomats fear that Moscow is determined to define the parameters of the interim security arrangements in its own terms.

(story continues...)
“Prepare your proof before you argue”
- Jewish Proverb

okay, this is me [link to profiles.yahoo.com]
Spy vs Spy
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08/22/2008 06:45 PM
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Re: BREAKING: RUSSIA SCALES DOWN GEORGIAN DEATH TOLL FIGURES::: ONLY 133 DIED IN SOUTH OSSETIA!!!!!!
Awwh Genocide deniers I see... We will have R-PAC force new laws on your government. Anyone who denies the official number of 1492 will be Earnst Zundeled!
Anonymous Coward
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Re: BREAKING: RUSSIA SCALES DOWN GEORGIAN DEATH TOLL FIGURES::: ONLY 133 DIED IN SOUTH OSSETIA!!!!!!
and even though Russia claims they completely withdrew,
we all know better than to believe it.


Russia hasnt claimed complete withdraw. A column of T-92 (?) tanks withdrew back to Russia, according to intl observers. Much of the surge troops have withdrawn from Georgia proper, Russia says. But they also say that troops are enforcing a buffer zone inside Georgia proper, but Tbisi says it doesnt recognize no stinkin buffer zone,,,,

Russia says withdrawal complete
[link to news.bbc.co.uk]

Russia says it has fulfilled a pledge to withdraw its combat troops from Georgia in line with a ceasefire deal.

But Moscow says it intends to maintain a peacekeeping presence of 2,500 troops in "buffer zones" around the breakaway regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

The Georgian government has denounced the move as unacceptable.

The White House said checkpoints and buffer zones were "definitely not part of the agreement", and called for an immediate withdrawal of Russian troops.

The "buffer zones" extend far beyond any pre-existing security zones, and the BBC's diplomatic correspondent, Jonathan Marcus, says Western diplomats fear that Moscow is determined to define the parameters of the interim security arrangements in its own terms.

(story continues...)
 Quoting: Ashkenazi Girl


It's a matter of interpretation. They say they withdrew their surge forces from Georgia proper, and according to the peace agreement as they understand it. In other words the withdraw is complete as its going to get. They never said they would completely withdraw all forces, and have said they would continue patrols and road blocks in a buffer zone inside Georgia....

That's what they say...
Anonymous Coward
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08/22/2008 06:58 PM
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Re: BREAKING: RUSSIA SCALES DOWN GEORGIAN DEATH TOLL FIGURES::: ONLY 133 DIED IN SOUTH OSSETIA!!!!!!
and what they have been saying from the start....
Ashkenazi Girl

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08/22/2008 07:08 PM
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Re: BREAKING: RUSSIA SCALES DOWN GEORGIAN DEATH TOLL FIGURES::: ONLY 133 DIED IN SOUTH OSSETIA!!!!!!
It's a matter of interpretation. They say they withdrew their surge forces from Georgia proper, and according to the peace agreement as they understand it. In other words the withdraw is complete as its going to get. They never said they would completely withdraw all forces, and have said they would continue patrols and road blocks in a buffer zone inside Georgia....

That's what they say...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 488414

how is Senaki and Poti part of the buffer zone?
that's pretty far from South Ossetia.
“Prepare your proof before you argue”
- Jewish Proverb

okay, this is me [link to profiles.yahoo.com]
Anonymous Coward
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08/22/2008 07:14 PM
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Re: BREAKING: RUSSIA SCALES DOWN GEORGIAN DEATH TOLL FIGURES::: ONLY 133 DIED IN SOUTH OSSETIA!!!!!!
It's a matter of interpretation. They say they withdrew their surge forces from Georgia proper, and according to the peace agreement as they understand it. In other words the withdraw is complete as its going to get. They never said they would completely withdraw all forces, and have said they would continue patrols and road blocks in a buffer zone inside Georgia....

That's what they say...

how is Senaki and Poti part of the buffer zone?
that's pretty far from South Ossetia.
 Quoting: Ashkenazi Girl


Abkhazia. Russians already had peace keepers there. And they were attacked by Georgia. And the Abkhazians counterattacked, kicked out Tblisi's troops and are holding their own territory. So when Russia speaks and explains its actions about Georgia, it isnt only about S. Ossetia.

They also made that clear.

Dont read just the western press, it is confusing and isnt a good source for understanding what Russians say.
Ashkenazi Girl

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08/22/2008 07:19 PM
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Re: BREAKING: RUSSIA SCALES DOWN GEORGIAN DEATH TOLL FIGURES::: ONLY 133 DIED IN SOUTH OSSETIA!!!!!!
It's a matter of interpretation. They say they withdrew their surge forces from Georgia proper, and according to the peace agreement as they understand it. In other words the withdraw is complete as its going to get. They never said they would completely withdraw all forces, and have said they would continue patrols and road blocks in a buffer zone inside Georgia....

That's what they say...

how is Senaki and Poti part of the buffer zone?
that's pretty far from South Ossetia.


Abkhazia. Russians already had peace keepers there. And they were attacked by Georgia. And the Abkhazians counterattacked, kicked out Tblisi's troops and are holding their own territory. So when Russia speaks and explains its actions about Georgia, it isnt only about S. Ossetia.

They also made that clear.

Dont read just the western press, it is confusing and isnt a good source for understanding what Russians say.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 488414

Poti is more than 30km from Abkhazia.
so how big is this buffer zone?
“Prepare your proof before you argue”
- Jewish Proverb

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Anonymous Coward
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08/22/2008 07:20 PM
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Re: BREAKING: RUSSIA SCALES DOWN GEORGIAN DEATH TOLL FIGURES::: ONLY 133 DIED IN SOUTH OSSETIA!!!!!!
There is no doubt that Russia is occupying key military parts of Georgia. And they are in no hurry to leave. But ever since the peace deal with France, they havent lied about how they understood the peace deal, and so far their shouldnt be any surprises if you have been listening to what they are saying.

Dont allow someone else to interpret for you what the Russians are saying,,,
Ashkenazi Girl

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08/22/2008 07:23 PM
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Re: BREAKING: RUSSIA SCALES DOWN GEORGIAN DEATH TOLL FIGURES::: ONLY 133 DIED IN SOUTH OSSETIA!!!!!!
There is no doubt that Russia is occupying key military parts of Georgia. And they are in no hurry to leave. But ever since the peace deal with France, they havent lied about how they understood the peace deal, and so far their shouldnt be any surprises if you have been listening to what they are saying.

Dont allow someone else to interpret for you what the Russians are saying,,,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 488414

then they may as well occupy Tbilisi too
anyway, i'm outta here. it's almost 2:30am
“Prepare your proof before you argue”
- Jewish Proverb

okay, this is me [link to profiles.yahoo.com]
Anonymous Coward
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08/22/2008 07:25 PM
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Re: BREAKING: RUSSIA SCALES DOWN GEORGIAN DEATH TOLL FIGURES::: ONLY 133 DIED IN SOUTH OSSETIA!!!!!!
Poti is more than 30km from Abkhazia.
so how big is this buffer zone?
 Quoting: Ashkenazi Girl


Well I guess the buffer zone is 30km from Abkhazia, and 30km outside Tblisi. The Russians deliberately left the definition of buffer zones vague in the peace deal -- obviously they negotiated the agreement from a position of strength....





GLP