A challenge to believers of a SEVEN-year tribulation.

OMG I feel like I'm back in elementary school art class. I can barely get off the couch today, let alone complete an art project. Do you have a picture of this completed thingie you can upload for the sick people like me?

I can't post graphics here.

Tomorrow check this link.
[link to home.centurytel.net]

I'll try to get a graphic prepared and posted tomorrow.

The confirmation of the covenant the Anti-christ makes
kicks off the seven years.

Very interesting. I believe most of what we've been taught about the tribulation is bunk. All these people don't once mention the asteroid predicted to hit the earth at the start of this tribulation. I know you are right on target with all the festivals. And we are heading into festival time now. May the Lord protect His own.

Yep, no 7 year tribulation just like no secret rapture. Wake up! Smell the coffee. The time is near

Ok. Thank you.

ever hear the term overlap?

Sure have ... and used to believe it myself until I actually LOOKED at the years and the events.

Michelle, at the very top of the webspace I link to I've been able to put together a jpg for you to print out.

Just cut the Witnesses and beast strips and try to place them in a seven year situation.

My own experience is that "something" happens BIG TIME before the Witnesses and the beasts come on the scene.

That's why I believe the 3-/2 years, 1260 days, will start at a Pesach and end at a Yom Kippur.

The interesting thing is that in the month of Pesach the Lamb was chosen on the 10th. And from Yom Teruah (Jewish New Year) to Yom Kippur is 10 days.

So! There is indeed 10 days for off-set but not years.

OP, do you believe in pretrib, midtrib, posttrib, or prewrath rapture?

Thank you. I will do that, but I can't get to a printer until next Tuesday. I'm curious to see what this is, though, so I'll dfntly do it then.

I believe ALL who put their trust in Yeshua leave before THE WRATH ... because the Wrath lines up with the 10 Days of Awe between Yom Teruah and Yom Kippur. Seal 7, Trumpet 7.

But ... I also believe that the "great tribulation" talked of in Revelation is actually the time from when Yeshua returned to The Father to when The Bride is called by The Beloved. And that the "great" is actually in length-of-time not degree. The last almost 2000 years have been/are that "great tribulation" of Seal 6 in which believers have been dying because of their relationship with Yeshua.

My study of the Seals of Revelation convinces me that those at Seal 6 are the 5 Wise Virgins who will be ready for Yeshua's Call ...

... and that there will be a group that leaves earth when the Witnesses are restored to life as this group will have come to realize the truth during the ministry of the Witnesses. Their leaving will be before the WRATH of Seal 7, Trumpet 7, but what they experience during the reign of the beasts will have been horrible. Hence the truth of the Blessed Hope!

There's the 10 days Jesus mentions in Revelation 2

Hmmm ... that would be VERY interesting!

Have never heard anyone link those two before.

Will get the concordance out to find the reference and see what context Yeshua says this in!

... the earth shakes are really getting "strange" and we still have a day before Sabbath preparation and new moon.

ok, I have my elmers brush on paste, crayons, construction paper and safety scissors, ok so what do I do now?

I believe all believers will leave before the wrath too, the seal 7, trumpet 7. I haven't heard of the great tribulation already beginning though. I'll have to study what you say in more detail. Do you believe that the two sticks of Judah and Ephraim will come together before the Lord's coming and that those two sticks represent Christianity (Ephraim) being brought out of Babylon, and Judah (the Jews) accepting the Messiah as Jesus Christ?

FAIL




There are 7 years left in Daniel's 490 year prophetic timeclock that you are gratuitously disregarding. This is the time of the 7 year Tribulation.

Time, Times and the dividing of time. there is no way to express a sequence of events but as a sequence. There is no special schedule per se. Astute scholars could decifer the whole mystery with only Daniel to work with. Revelation is not intended to be a precise chronological account but told bty a man desribing things he could not understand in the language and verbeage of 1st century Asia Minor ( or just off the coast thereof. to attempt to acribe an exact timeline is something that can not be done and all the mystery is not revealed IE the 1290 and possible mention of 1330 days found elsewhere in passages that noow escape me. the parousia is expected to coincide with the believed birth time of near or at the Rosh Ha'shannah or feast of trumpets. The signifitgance of Yeheshuah's life of 33 and 1/2 years makes that certain and as mentioned by Yez'ekiel the beginning practice date for a Rebbe was 30 ( check Ez. chapter 1 ii believe) so the sigfigance of the 3.5 year ministry of Yehushah was, as everthing else inthe BOOK, indicative if something which me may or may not yet understand. One thing is certain Yehushuah is coming and HE will be very pissed when he gets here. Just ask the money changers who brought the whoredoms of crass commercialism to the Temple of EL SHADDAI and got a monumental ass-whuppin' for it. It doesn't mater whether or not you ( metaphorically ) believe. if i am wrong ( I KNOW I AM NOT as I do not just believe I KNOW) I will just be dead, gone kaput, inert redigested by the earth from which i was made. If I am right...all these folsk who decide to reject the tryths of GOD"S word because it easy to let this corrupt world throw you in a trick by believeing the pop culture, Hollywood, Benny HInn false gospel or the pagan absorbing machinations of the RCC< the monumental greed and sale of salvation by many other big name " evangelists. ( Salvation is free, lest any man should boast) or the nutcake New Age Galactic federation's "great ii am presence", "mother mary", saint? geman or germany or wwhatver thhat "used to bbbe Abraham, Moses, King davis, Jesus" dufus. The "christ consciousness" all thhat other "OH Wait we have another slight delay....we are not ging to arrive and explain to a gospel truth starved populkation that we are you gos and greator for a little while longer cause some of the people are not vibrating at the proper frequency ( WHAT IS THE FREQUENCY KENNETH!" or any other blue beam, enlightnened master bull shit sun ra sumerian warrior etc. If you remmeber anything al all before i go and you savage me....remember this....if you see a physical Yehushuah aka Iesus, Jesus or even "ay Seuss" while standing anywhere bu the vicinity of the Temple Mount, Olivet he valleyy la ha Kdron or the Valley oof Ha Benim Hinnon and see him outside a world almost tootallly destroyed...then you ain't seen HIM! You have seen saint germany or whoever nutballl pseudonym based blasphemer cum nephilim offspring has been designnated to cameo that part or even old ha satann himself.......Any thinking "not too smart to beileiev in things he can't put in a box" person would do well to remember this in the presence of any supposed "spiritual visitation from 1st Yohannon chapter 4 IE "any sprit that confesseth that Yeheshuah HAS already come in the flesh is of GOD and any who doesn't is of the spirit of the anti-christ. He wil not have 3 6s on his forehead he may have the power to work lying signs and wonders like calling down part of the Galactic Fleet or healing some disease after knocking thhe suufferer out like BennHinn like Jesus said to do....OH WAIT HE DIDN"T ever knock out any paralutic, demoniac or visionallly challenged patient did he? But anyway the son of perdition's coming will be after all manner of lying signs and wonders. In closing remember that " as in the day of Noah...so shall it be in the day of the comming of the SON of Man. It wasn't about "people wer real mean and did sin and stuff: it was tottally about the corruption of man's bloodlines, the corruption of the line to preclude humanity's capabiliity to produce biologically a child w/o the normal sexual process. It wasn't that sex was sin but that the divinity coul only result thru divine conception. Just as mary did not remain a virgin after his birth, just as her Mama Anna was not a virgin because to repeat this or precursor to the actual divine actiion resulting inmary's pregnancy woud totally destroy the signifigance of the fact that Yeheshuah was born thru thru the work of Ru'ach Ha Kodesk and without the intervention of man. A detailed and dedicated study of the word without the "leaven of the Pharisees" will go along way toward a genuine understanding of the plan which runs thru the BOOK from Cover to cover. I would not want to be here and without the knowlledge of and fear/ respect of the Most High GOD, Maranatha. Hope you all fiigure it out.

Sorry Van Helsing, you are wrong. Those seven years were FULLY completed when the ministry to the Jewish people ended. You can read about it in Acts. The 490 years were "determined" upon the Jewish people. Jesus ministered to the Jewish people for the first 3 1/2 years. His disciples took it to the Jewish people for the last 3 1/2 years before taking the gospel to the gentiles. It even states in Acts that the period that was determined when the "time was fulfilled".

The seven-year tribulation doctrine has been forged in hell. There ARE NO "warning" periods for people to change their ways. The time has always been NOW!!! There are multitudes of people in the valley of decision who will gnashing their teeth and be wailing because they will realize that they have missed their opportunity. The time is not future!! It is NOW NOW NOW!!! Look around you. The world is in a terrible mess! The tribulation is going on NOW!! Millions are dying every day from one evil cause or another. Men's hearts are failing them for fear!! There are wars and rumors of major wars to come. Justice is fallen in the streets. Crime is rampant. Drug use is pandemic!! The weak are saying that they are strong and everyone is arming themselves to the teeth!! Open your eyes. Everything is de-facto in place. It could all happen in a heartbeat. The final events will be VERY QUICK!! It only takes ONE HOUR for it all to come to and end. There is silence in heaven for the space of a half hour. That's fifteen days in prophetic time!! From the beginning to the end of the tribulation, only one-half hour of prophetic time is needed. None of theis garbage about THE antichrist and rapture and seven years of "second chances". Jesus's reward is WITH Him when He comes!! And, it is very soon.

People are looking for THE event. That event is about to happen very soon. It will be nothing less than the actual appearing of the Shekinah Glory. Pentecost is about to explode across the world. This is what Satan will try to counterfeit. Those not grounded in the truth will be taken hook, line and sinker. They will be awed by Satan's awesome beauty and power. He appears as an angel of light. If if were possible, he would deceive even the elect. But the elect know their God. He has led them "from glory TO glory". They know His voice. They know His Word. This is going on NOW!!! Multitudes are following His every Word and putting all else aside. There is no compromise with Satan. They abstain from EVERY appearance of evil. In the final end, they will be blamed for every evil thing in the world.

I can't say this strongly enough!! The time is NOW!!!!!!!!

I've been wondering how long that space of half an hour is in prophetic time. Do you know where two witnesses to this is in the OT? I haven't been able to find it.

2005-2012

Began after the Great Earthquake of 2004

We are formally just beyond the half way point.

You can go to this link [link to home.centurytel.net]

... and at the very top is a jpg that you print out.

Cut out the three pieces of paper labeled - Witnesses, sea beast, and earth beast.

The conventional teaching states that there are SEVEN years presented in Revelation which conventional teaching calls "tribulation".

There is no way to get the Witnesses and the beasts to cover a FULL seven years WHILE also being at the same time.

Try it for yourself. Take those three pieces of paper and place them on the seven year diagram. Try to make them cover seven years WHILE also overlapping each other.

Michelle, that sounds like some Messianic teachings? from which group?

Regarding the tribulation ... when I diagramed the seals in Revelation what I found was that EACH horseman was only ONE verse long in description! And there was NO TIME associated with that description!

When I started looking a world history from the time Yeshua returned to The Father to now, I saw that the white horse rider could be the spirit that lead Ignatius of Antioch - 98 A.D. - to abolish Torah/Sabbath or Constantine - 325 A.D. - who married the "church" to government.

The spirit that lead folks like The Kan was pretty "blood-thirty" red!

Odoacer, in financing, could have been lead by the spirit of the blackhorseman, and ...

not politically correct ... that pale(green) horseman seems to fit well the Muslim religious system.

SO! What I see is that the "great" tribulation is not as we English speakers see it, "great in affliction" but rather "great in length of time".

That's why for me, I'm expecting Seal 6 to open with a space-event. I think it will be one where I'm correct but by then I'm "gone"! and won't say "I told you so!"

Well, no group. Just the Bible's prophecy in Ezekiel of the valley of dry bones and the two sticks becoming one in the Lord's hand. In fact, a lot of the OT covers this. After the split of the tribes, it starts referring to Judah or Israel, Judah meaning the Jews and Israel meaning the Ephraim collectively, the northern tribe. But that's a WHOLE other thread discussion. I don't want to get off topic.



I see the white horse rider of Revelation 6:2 as being our friend. He's going forth to conquer and has a bow (notice no arrows) and is given a crown. IMHO, he is spiritual David, the king of Israel, and he's conquering the mystery Babylon through spiritual warfare. He has no arrows, because he uses the enemy's arrows for his bow, because the Bible tells us that the curses and fiery darts of the wicked will return upon their own heads. So he uses the enemy's arrows on his bow to return their own curses and fiery darts.

In Ezekiel 21:25-27, it says this: "25And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end,

26Thus saith the Lord GOD; Remove the diadem, and take off the crown: this shall not be the same: exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high.

27I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him."

I believe that crown that was taken away from the last king of Israel is given to the white horse rider in Revelation 6:2, and it will be given to the new king of Israel, the spiritual David who will lead Israel. I know so many people think this white horse rider is the antichrist, but IMHO they're mistaken. It is, in fact, King David.

Hmmm, that is a new interpretation for me. I will have to chew on this one for a bit.

um...........WHAT?

I'm guessing you think you have something of value to contribute. May I humbly suggest paragraphs and correct spelling?

I'd kinda like to know what you were trying to say and I couldn't make it past the first few lines.....

Please?

The Bible says the AC will make a treaty for 7 years, no mention of the tribulation lasting 7 years, the trib will last about 14 years, where the last 3 1/2 years being the time of Jacobs trouble.

Fifth ... place the Witnesses' strip and the beasts' strip on the seven inch line and tell me how you are going to get them to cover SEVEN years when the Witnesses and the beasts are operating during the same time.

Isn't it written that the beast can't touch the Witnesses DURING their ministry? And only after the 1260 days are up can they be killed?


John was in another dimension of consciousness beyond the consciousnes of the physical plane. All things are possible for those who enter the mind of Supreme Intelligence of the Universe. That is the "Gospel Message" and why the Slavation of the Supreme Intelligence refered to himself as the Son of God and the So of Man. Son of man and Son of God are one in the same. We are gods. Also see 1 John2:27, but not gods onto ourselves. Wel some tink they are but that's what 666 is all about.

6 is number of man
3 is the number of deity

Man makes himself First cause. The NWO believe they are first cause, create a system that is a beast and those who bow down to the system are in fact bowing down to the system that is a beast and therfore take it's mark 666. The Beast deceives people to belive that you can not buy sell trade or basically survive unless you hvae it's mark, but those who operate by the consciousness of the Supreme Intelligence of the Universe, in other words those in Christ, overcome and have all they want and more then they can hold, and escape the Tribulation while going through it. We will have everything need if we ask for it believing we it's already there for us.

Also, there is a process to understand God's reckoning of time and understand the prophecy of the 70 weeks in Daniel. Stay away from the 7th day Adventist teaching on the is subject.

Here is a very good teaching on the subject of how Yahweh reckons time, and in particular the Great Trib.
[link to www.elshaddaiministries.us]

I have been changing my opinion much like you after 12 years or so of studying the most popular scenario, much like the "Left Behind" series of books. This is the basci belief upheld by the church ( protestant) for the last 30 years or so and the more I see it become very popular the more I believe that it is not acurate. The simple reason is that we are warned so many times to not be decieved and the great oevel of acceptance this scenario has acchieved makes me more willing to believe that we are/have been decieved. I have read about 80 assorted books in that time period and sometimes wonder that what they teach could be so much a misinterpration that he could be knee deep in the Apocalysis and up to about chapter 7 or 8 or 9. The horses have been riding roughshod for decades and centuries and the p[articular reference to the equs chloros or "green around the gills" pale horse makes me wonder exactly what "BEASTS of the earth means" seeing as that is the ONLY time that phrase is ever used as opposed to the "BEASTS of the field" so common. What? Aliens? Nephilim? More freaking 12 foot atll giants en route to earth on a brown-dwarf-sun-revoling-around-planet that is really a spaceship hurled into space by GOD"S own angels The evil men who recieve power for one hoour with the beast seem to be proliferating and there mmust be a waiting list just to put in an application for a position with them huh? I have alwqays wondered if we could get iit so wrong thhat we would NOT know the time was at hand until the 5th angel sounded and them big ole locuustes comes out'n the abyss. Sunds like the RNC or DNC except with a higher level of credibility. Nancy Pelosi with a sting in her tail? Perfect. Could mcCain's facial annomaly count as a fierce countenance or could Obamanation's do so? I fear that that day will cllose around us and i ofte think that we have NO guarantee that we will not face Chelvai Shel Mashiach or birth pangs of Mashaich at a level far beyond a Roosevelt fireside chatesque degree of a sense of inclusion in the movings and shakings of this world death throes. The fact that so many people still think that these boobs of Reps or Dems will somehow save us and reestablish a Rockwellesque incarnation of America past; one drowned in the machinations of the peacenik hippies so busy working for peace that they will kill you if you thwart them in any way. A world long gone whenthe cities are full of manufactured victims robbed of any chance they wuld have ever been afforded to be equal paticipants before they ever thought to get up and actually participate. Behold! already the mystery oof iniquity doth work. The cancerous chewing of the hordes of the go of this world; one judged and condemned aeons ago who only awaits his sentence being carreid out and the smoke of his torment to arise forever. Only then will there be justice for the incalculable cruely caused on this world especially to and by the hand od those who deny his existence.