|
|
| Page 1, 2 |
Report: Satellite images show ethnic cleansing source of reduced Iraq violence
|
DrPostman  
Forum Moderator
User ID: 51197
9/20/2008 10:19 PM
Report abusive post | Report: Satellite images show ethnic cleansing source of reduced Iraq violence
| Quote |
A study of the Pentagon's satellite imagery concludes that ethnic cleansing -- not last year's surge of U.S. military forces -- is the main factor in the reduction of violence in Iraq.
The report's conclusion about the surge's ineffectiveness are supported by many Iraq experts and international organizations who credit a population shift with the decline of sectarian violence, especially in Baghdad, Reuters reported.
Conducted by the University of California, the study analyzed the use of nighttime light across Baghdad and how it changed before, during and after the surge. It's findings show only some neighborhoods have higher levels of output, suggesting the others had been ethnically cleansed before the surge.
"By the launch of the surge, many of the targets of conflict had either been killed or fled the country, and they turned off the lights when they left," geography professor John Agnew of the University of California Los Angeles, who led the study, said in a statement.
"Essentially, our interpretation is that violence has declined in Baghdad because of intercommunal violence that reached a climax as the surge was beginning," said Agnew, who studies ethnic conflict.
In other words, ethnic violence did the job before American soldiers got the chance.
Sectarian violence between Baghdad's neighborhoods has been documented by an independent commission that correlates with much of the report's findings.
But FP Passport, a foreign policy blog, offered several caveats to its conclusion. For example, the blog asks why there were also security improvements outside the capital in places such as Anbar province?
Republican presidential nominee John McCain has long criticized his opponent Sen. Barack Obama for not having backed the surge, which McCain boasts as the single factor in the reduction of violence.
CNN Security Analyst Peter Bergen disagrees.
"...oth the Democrats and the Republicans have been overemphasizing the surge. If it was just about the surge, the violence would be back up again because the surge is over."
In a speech last July, McCain said, "It is precisely the success of the surge in Iraq that shows us the way to succeed in Afghanistan," but one country has very little to do with the other, Slate.com reported.
A recent military analysis posits that a surge of troops in Afghanistan, where rising violence has drawn the attention of U.S. forces, will not succeed. The article contends U.S. military leaders do not adequately understand the country's situation.
Which is exactly what the study of ethnic cleansing suggested about commanders in Iraq.
The first sentence of the University of California's summary, written by co-author Thomas Gillespie, says this:
"Geographers and social scientists find it increasingly difficult to intervene in debates about vital matters of public interest, such as the Iraq war, because of the ideological polarization and lack of respect for empirical analysis that have afflicted US politics in recent years." Emphasis added.
Read the entirety of the report here:
[link to www.envplan.com]
"Sooner or later all the peoples of the world will have to discover a way to
live together in peace, and thereby transform this pending cosmic elegy into
a creative psalm of brotherhood. If this is to be achieved, man must evolve
for all human conflict a method which rejects revenge, aggression, and retaliation.
The foundation of such a method is love."
--Reverend Martin Luther King
Can't PM? Feel free to email me at
DrPostman(at)gmail.com
Want to know if a site is down, or if
the problem is at your end? Go to:
[link to downforeveryoneorjustme.com] |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 422858
9/20/2008 10:21 PM | | Re: Report: Satellite images show ethnic cleansing source of reduced Iraq violence | Quote |
why am I not surprised |
|
hoot no more/hasheater
User ID: 507449
9/20/2008 10:29 PM | | Re: Report: Satellite images show ethnic cleansing source of reduced Iraq violence | Quote |
The "surge" worked because we are paying them $500 a month each not to fight |
|
DrPostman
Forum Moderator
User ID: 51197
9/20/2008 10:32 PM
| | Re: Report: Satellite images show ethnic cleansing source of reduced Iraq violence | Quote |
The "surge" worked because we are paying them $500 a month each not to fight Quoting: hoot no more/hasheater 507449
That too. Iraq will fall apart in just a few weeks after
we leave. No wonder McCain has no problem with staying there
for 100 years.
I really want to see this topic come up in the debates when
McCain tries to bash Obama with The Surge.
"Sooner or later all the peoples of the world will have to discover a way to
live together in peace, and thereby transform this pending cosmic elegy into
a creative psalm of brotherhood. If this is to be achieved, man must evolve
for all human conflict a method which rejects revenge, aggression, and retaliation.
The foundation of such a method is love."
--Reverend Martin Luther King
Can't PM? Feel free to email me at
DrPostman(at)gmail.com
Want to know if a site is down, or if
the problem is at your end? Go to:
[link to downforeveryoneorjustme.com] |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 463182
9/20/2008 10:34 PM | | Re: Report: Satellite images show ethnic cleansing source of reduced Iraq violence | Quote |
cmon... the surge began "working" as election season got in gear like clock work. As soon as it passes it will be 2004 all over again. Instead of spending a trillion dollars to save the financial system, they should just start saying the problem is gone. Doesnt make it so, but at least people will feel better about it. |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 501646
9/21/2008 2:43 AM | | Re: Report: Satellite images show ethnic cleansing source of reduced Iraq violence | Quote |
this is dumb. Maybe some people went to bed and turned the light or blew tha candles out. |
|
CC
User ID: 507400
9/21/2008 2:44 AM | | Re: Report: Satellite images show ethnic cleansing source of reduced Iraq violence | Quote |
The 'surge' was a fraud like everything associated with this ridiculous and unnecessary war. The same result could have been achieved, with no loss of life, by squeezing Saddam with sanctions until he was forced to negotiate the end of his expansionist ambitions. The only good thing to come out of the Iraq invasion has been the partial repair of the marshes at the southern end of the country. |
|
The_Venerable
User ID: 412220
9/21/2008 2:50 AM | | Re: Report: Satellite images show ethnic cleansing source of reduced Iraq violence | Quote |
Dr. Postman,
I have no doubt that massive amounts of war crimes are being committed in Iraq, both by Iraqis and U.S. troops. It is U.S. military doctrine that in anti-insurgency fighting, the entire local population is the enemy.
But to say the surge didn't work or had no effect isn't accurate either. It only makes sense that more guns in the area quiets people up.
That said, the solution for the U.S. is to really help the Iraqi people get back on their feet and then get the hell out. Enough of the charades. Enough of the false pretenses that allow the U.S. to stay in Iraq to extort its resources and make money for mercenaries and corrupt corporations.
But your post wasn't entirely accurate, either. |
|
anonymous
User ID: 507443
9/21/2008 3:14 AM | | Re: Report: Satellite images show ethnic cleansing source of reduced Iraq violence | Quote |
A study of the Pentagon's satellite imagery concludes that ethnic cleansing -- not last year's surge of U.S. military forces -- is the main factor in the reduction of violence in Iraq.
The report's conclusion about the surge's ineffectiveness are supported by many Iraq experts and international organizations who credit a population shift with the decline of sectarian violence, especially in Baghdad, Reuters reported.
Conducted by the University of California, the study analyzed the use of nighttime light across Baghdad and how it changed before, during and after the surge. It's findings show only some neighborhoods have higher levels of output, suggesting the others had been ethnically cleansed before the surge.
"By the launch of the surge, many of the targets of conflict had either been killed or fled the country, and they turned off the lights when they left," geography professor John Agnew of the University of California Los Angeles, who led the study, said in a statement.
"Essentially, our interpretation is that violence has declined in Baghdad because of intercommunal violence that reached a climax as the surge was beginning," said Agnew, who studies ethnic conflict.
In other words, ethnic violence did the job before American soldiers got the chance.
Sectarian violence between Baghdad's neighborhoods has been documented by an independent commission that correlates with much of the report's findings.
But FP Passport, a foreign policy blog, offered several caveats to its conclusion. For example, the blog asks why there were also security improvements outside the capital in places such as Anbar province?
Republican presidential nominee John McCain has long criticized his opponent Sen. Barack Obama for not having backed the surge, which McCain boasts as the single factor in the reduction of violence.
CNN Security Analyst Peter Bergen disagrees.
"...oth the Democrats and the Republicans have been overemphasizing the surge. If it was just about the surge, the violence would be back up again because the surge is over."
In a speech last July, McCain said, "It is precisely the success of the surge in Iraq that shows us the way to succeed in Afghanistan," but one country has very little to do with the other, Slate.com reported.
A recent military analysis posits that a surge of troops in Afghanistan, where rising violence has drawn the attention of U.S. forces, will not succeed. The article contends U.S. military leaders do not adequately understand the country's situation.
Which is exactly what the study of ethnic cleansing suggested about commanders in Iraq.
The first sentence of the University of California's summary, written by co-author Thomas Gillespie, says this:
"Geographers and social scientists find it increasingly difficult to intervene in debates about vital matters of public interest, such as the Iraq war, because of the ideological polarization and lack of respect for empirical analysis that have afflicted US politics in recent years." Emphasis added.
Read the entirety of the report here:
[ link to www.envplan.com]
more america bashing ..you idiots are needed in china and russia..old women must work hard labor in china for being an agitator..she and roomate now must live in an unheated apt.Go china bash for awhile.. |
|
Matrix
User ID: 506998
9/21/2008 3:16 AM | | Re: Report: Satellite images show ethnic cleansing source of reduced Iraq violence | Quote |
Less people = less violence = less problems. The surge is not working because of more boots on the ground, it is working because people have been killed on mass, detained and relocated nationally on mass or have moved to other countries on mass to live in refugee camps. The death toll and violence has gone down, because the targeted local people who could have made a difference have been killed(by terrorists/sectarians), captured(by occupation) or have moved away(by war between the two). Its called shock and awe, winning hearts and minds; the spreading freedom and democracy grave by grave, refugee camp by refugee camp. |
|
Me114
aka ladynada
User ID: 323570
9/21/2008 3:28 AM
 | | Re: Report: Satellite images show ethnic cleansing source of reduced Iraq violence | Quote |
why am I not surprised Quoting: Anonymous Coward 422858
this sounds like a lot more could have been done to effect that than only what surface considerations might suspect.
=+=+=+=
The TWO Witnesses are Mom and Dad & they're coming to give YOU a SPANKING
[link to heartdaughter.com]
Official Elijah Blog
[link to heartdaughter.com] |
|
DrPostman
Forum Moderator
User ID: 51197
9/21/2008 3:29 AM
| | Re: Report: Satellite images show ethnic cleansing source of reduced Iraq violence | Quote |
more america bashing ..you idiots are needed in china and russia..old women must work hard labor in china for being an agitator..she and roomate now must live in an unheated apt.Go china bash for awhile.. Quoting: anonymous 507443
Way to be specific in criticizing the study. It's patriotic
to criticize your country and fascist to support your
country no matter what it does. I thank God I live in a
country where criticism is encouraged, not prosecuted. I
bet you still think Iraq had something to do with 911.
You think people can be shot at enough to embrace democracy
and be thankful for the US liberating those left alive, right?
BTW, did you ever even enter high school, or was elementary
school too difficult for you?
"Sooner or later all the peoples of the world will have to discover a way to
live together in peace, and thereby transform this pending cosmic elegy into
a creative psalm of brotherhood. If this is to be achieved, man must evolve
for all human conflict a method which rejects revenge, aggression, and retaliation.
The foundation of such a method is love."
--Reverend Martin Luther King
Can't PM? Feel free to email me at
DrPostman(at)gmail.com
Want to know if a site is down, or if
the problem is at your end? Go to:
[link to downforeveryoneorjustme.com] |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 393403
9/21/2008 3:43 AM | | Re: Report: Satellite images show ethnic cleansing source of reduced Iraq violence | Quote |
why am I not surprised Quoting: Anonymous Coward 422858
maybe because the Shi'ite leaders in Iraq don't welcome the Iranian President with flowers & candy!!!
grand poo-bah Sistani & al Sadr luvs them some Western Civilisation all of a sudden!!! |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 506738
9/21/2008 3:54 AM | | Re: Report: Satellite images show ethnic cleansing source of reduced Iraq violence | Quote |
more america bashing ..you idiots are needed in china and russia..old women must work hard labor in china for being an agitator..she and roomate now must live in an unheated apt.Go china bash for awhile.. Quoting: DrPostman
We sure could use another loan bailout from China though.
It's time to start World Bashing. After all this world war of terrorism is that of a war against a "state of mind".
A war on "breathing too much" is right around the corner. |
|
markusmaximus
Rawr.
User ID: 507472
9/21/2008 4:02 AM
 | | Re: Report: Satellite images show ethnic cleansing source of reduced Iraq violence | Quote |
is this what bob woodward was talking about in his book?
he was very careful not to name the "secret weapon" being used by coalition forces...
is that because he didn't want to actually utter the phrase "ethnic cleansing?"
What? You think you're the only person that gets sick when he doesn't get his jellybeans? |
|
Dervish
User ID: 416254
9/21/2008 4:11 AM
 | | Re: Report: Satellite images show ethnic cleansing source of reduced Iraq violence | Quote |
is this what bob woodward was talking about in his book?
he was very careful not to name the "secret weapon" being used by coalition forces...
is that because he didn't want to actually utter the phrase "ethnic cleansing?" Quoting: markusmaximus
Not exactly markus.
The Woodward "leak" is a technology that can be used for ethnic cleansing, but thats not it here.
Have no pride when it comes time to get out of Dodge
-----------------------
Adapt,Improvise,Overcome |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 502659
9/21/2008 4:11 AM | | Re: Report: Satellite images show ethnic cleansing source of reduced Iraq violence | Quote |
Study based on nighttime light emissions in a nation in which most of the electrical systems that weren't blown all to hell is still very unreliable? Sounds to me like some of the most shoddy of all research premises. |
|
markusmaximus
Rawr.
User ID: 507472
9/21/2008 4:14 AM
| | Re: Report: Satellite images show ethnic cleansing source of reduced Iraq violence | Quote |
is this what bob woodward was talking about in his book?
he was very careful not to name the "secret weapon" being used by coalition forces...
is that because he didn't want to actually utter the phrase "ethnic cleansing?"
Not exactly markus.
The Woodward "leak" is a technology that can be used for ethnic cleansing, but thats not it here. Quoting: Dervish
ok, so woodward really was alluding to an exotic weapon? skeery stuff!
What? You think you're the only person that gets sick when he doesn't get his jellybeans? |
|
anonymous
User ID: 507443
9/21/2008 5:42 AM | | Re: Report: Satellite images show ethnic cleansing source of reduced Iraq violence | Quote |
Less people = less violence = less problems. The surge is not working because of more boots on the ground, it is working because people have been killed on mass, detained and relocated nationally on mass or have moved to other countries on mass to live in refugee camps. The death toll and violence has gone down, because the targeted local people who could have made a difference have been killed(by terrorists/sectarians), captured(by occupation) or have moved away(by war between the two). Its called shock and awe, winning hearts and minds; the spreading freedom and democracy grave by grave, refugee camp by refugee camp. Quoting: Matrix 506998
our Military is over there risking thier life...do you ever consider them.. muslims are on a chosen long time killing mission. can u not understand that.... |
|
anonymous
User ID: 507443
9/21/2008 5:44 AM | | Re: Report: Satellite images show ethnic cleansing source of reduced Iraq violence | Quote |
Less people = less violence = less problems. The surge is not working because of more boots on the ground, it is working because people have been killed on mass, detained and relocated nationally on mass or have moved to other countries on mass to live in refugee camps. The death toll and violence has gone down, because the targeted local people who could have made a difference have been killed(by terrorists/sectarians), captured(by occupation) or have moved away(by war between the two). Its called shock and awe, winning hearts and minds; the spreading freedom and democracy grave by grave, refugee camp by refugee camp. Quoting: Matrix 506998
our Military is over there risking thier life...do you ever consider them.. muslims are on a chosen long time killing mission. can u not understand that.... |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 503984
9/21/2008 5:47 AM | | Re: Report: Satellite images show ethnic cleansing source of reduced Iraq violence | Quote |
so the SURGE was a Spooge... |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 393403
9/21/2008 5:52 AM | | Re: Report: Satellite images show ethnic cleansing source of reduced Iraq violence | Quote |
Less people = less violence = less problems. The surge is not working because of more boots on the ground, it is working because people have been killed on mass, detained and relocated nationally on mass or have moved to other countries on mass to live in refugee camps. The death toll and violence has gone down, because the targeted local people who could have made a difference have been killed(by terrorists/sectarians), captured(by occupation) or have moved away(by war between the two). Its called shock and awe, winning hearts and minds; the spreading freedom and democracy grave by grave, refugee camp by refugee camp.
our Military is over there risking thier life...do you ever consider them.. muslims are on a chosen long time killing mission. can u not understand that.... Quoting: anonymous 507443
dammmiiitt, i didn't send them over there on a pack of lies & bullchit...
will you war-mongers ever understand that Iraq ain't did anything to the United States other than be a counter balance to Iran???
taking Iraq down, de-stabalised that region of the World and is costing the U.S. much more than it is worth...
no dayyyuuummm way will i ever say it is un-patriotic to call soldiers home from a battle field they never should have been deployed to!!! |
|
Reality is BS
User ID: 504277
9/21/2008 5:55 AM
 | | Re: Report: Satellite images show ethnic cleansing source of reduced Iraq violence | Quote |
Less people = less violence = less problems. The surge is not working because of more boots on the ground, it is working because people have been killed on mass, detained and relocated nationally on mass or have moved to other countries on mass to live in refugee camps. The death toll and violence has gone down, because the targeted local people who could have made a difference have been killed(by terrorists/sectarians), captured(by occupation) or have moved away(by war between the two). Its called shock and awe, winning hearts and minds; the spreading freedom and democracy grave by grave, refugee camp by refugee camp.
our Military is over there risking thier life...do you ever consider them.. muslims are on a chosen long time killing mission. can u not understand that.... Quoting: anonymous 507443
Look at who is actually dying in these conflicts. Then look at who the attacker is. Finally see who is occupying a foriegn nation. If you get the answer to these questions right then the truth should be evident. |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 507181
9/21/2008 6:20 AM | | Re: Report: Satellite images show ethnic cleansing source of reduced Iraq violence | Quote |
Less people = less violence = less problems. The surge is not working because of more boots on the ground, it is working because people have been killed on mass, detained and relocated nationally on mass or have moved to other countries on mass to live in refugee camps. The death toll and violence has gone down, because the targeted local people who could have made a difference have been killed(by terrorists/sectarians), captured(by occupation) or have moved away(by war between the two). Its called shock and awe, winning hearts and minds; the spreading freedom and democracy grave by grave, refugee camp by refugee camp.
Our military is over there risking life...do you ever consider them.. muslims are on a chosen long time killing mission. can u not understand that.... Quoting: anonymous 507443
What are our soldiers over there risking and losing their lives for then? Iraq is 95% Muslim!
Is our military supposed to kill 95% of Iraqis, and spare the 3% Christians, 1% Yazidis 1% Mandaeans?
That's what I'm understanding you are saying.
We have a huge border to defend - most Americans would be happier if they were back home defending it right now. |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 407045
9/21/2008 8:22 AM | | Re: Report: Satellite images show ethnic cleansing source of reduced Iraq violence | Quote |
is this what bob woodward was talking about in his book?
he was very careful not to name the "secret weapon" being used by coalition forces...
is that because he didn't want to actually utter the phrase "ethnic cleansing?" Quoting: markusmaximus
 The secret weapon was,,,,,drum roll,,,,,money.The United States paid them not to fight.........When we leave,,,and we will ,,,because The US is is out of folding money,,,,they will kill each other till they forget what they are fighting about........ |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 507668
9/21/2008 9:35 AM | | Re: Report: Satellite images show ethnic cleansing source of reduced Iraq violence | Quote |
The 'surge' was a fraud like everything associated with this ridiculous and unnecessary war. The same result could have been achieved, with no loss of life, by squeezing Saddam with sanctions until he was forced to negotiate the end of his expansionist ambitions. The only good thing to come out of the Iraq invasion has been the partial repair of the marshes at the southern end of the country. Quoting: CC 507400
That's ridiculous. Sanctions have Never worked. Anywhere. We sanctioned Iraq for 10 years and nothing happened. |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 507668
9/21/2008 9:40 AM | | Re: Report: Satellite images show ethnic cleansing source of reduced Iraq violence | Quote |
Less people = less violence = less problems. The surge is not working because of more boots on the ground, it is working because people have been killed on mass, detained and relocated nationally on mass or have moved to other countries on mass to live in refugee camps. The death toll and violence has gone down, because the targeted local people who could have made a difference have been killed(by terrorists/sectarians), captured(by occupation) or have moved away(by war between the two). Its called shock and awe, winning hearts and minds; the spreading freedom and democracy grave by grave, refugee camp by refugee camp.
our Military is over there risking thier life...do you ever consider them.. muslims are on a chosen long time killing mission. can u not understand that.... Quoting: anonymous 507443
Our military needs to be back home, and not half way around the world sticking their nose in things that aren't our business. Please don't fucking say they are "fighting for our freedom". |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 503833
9/21/2008 9:46 AM | | Re: Report: Satellite images show ethnic cleansing source of reduced Iraq violence | Quote |
It's patriotic
to criticize your country and fascist to support your
country no matter what it does. I thank God I live in a
country where criticism is encouraged, not prosecuted. Quoting: DrPostman
 |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 507628
9/21/2008 10:39 AM | | Re: Report: Satellite images show ethnic cleansing source of reduced Iraq violence | Quote |
The "surge" worked because we are paying them $500 a month each not to fight
That too. Iraq will fall apart in just a few weeks after
we leave. No wonder McCain has no problem with staying there
for 100 years.
I really want to see this topic come up in the debates when
McCain tries to bash Obama with The Surge. Quoting: DrPostman
I would really like to see this topic come up in the debates when Obama tries to get McCain to explain why we had to invade the place to begin with. |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 507628
9/21/2008 10:40 AM | | Re: Report: Satellite images show ethnic cleansing source of reduced Iraq violence | Quote |
It's patriotic
to criticize your country and fascist to support your
country no matter what it does. I thank God I live in a
country where criticism is encouraged, not prosecuted.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 503833
Seig Heil, asshole. |
|
Prove it
User ID: 429261
9/21/2008 10:55 AM | | Re: Report: Satellite images show ethnic cleansing source of reduced Iraq violence | Quote |
That is a stretch. Less light output proves ethnic cleansing. yeah ... right ....
If you are going to claim ethnic cleansing you need bodies ... dead bodies of one ethnic group killed by another ethnic group. Satellite images of lower light would not hold up in court.
 |
|
| Page 1, 2 |
|
