Probably one of the best books about the Noahic/Gilgamesh flood mythos is Ryan and Pitman's Noah's Flood: The New Scientific Discoveries About The Event That Changed History.
Of course, there was no worldwide flood, but Ryan and Pitman, make an excellent case for the myths to be based on an actual happenstance: their studies of sediments in the Black Sea convinced them that the body had been a freshwater lake until about 5600 B.C. When the rising waters of the Mediterranean broke through the Bosporus, "...ten cubic miles of water poured through each day, two hundred times what flows over Niagara Falls."
Their hypotheses is buttressed by finding shells of freshwater clams and remnants of human habitation at the 200-foot level of the Black Sea. This could have been an early starting point for the subsequent spread of Indo-European language family (although Ryan and Pitman do not go into this in detail), it is mentioned by other authors, including J.P. Mallory... [link to www.amazon.com] and Gordon Childe... [link to www.amazon.com]
...although, if you're familiar with Childe, you know that a lot of his beliefs and conclusions (now almost 70 years old), have been modified -- and in some cases rejected -- by modern archaeologists.
However, if you're really interested in a more rational explanation of the Noahic Flood, Ryan and Pitman is a good book to start with.
Last Edited by Duncan Kunz on 6/1/2009 at 1:25 AM Those western imperialist warmongers beat us to the Moon. Damn!
Anonymous Coward User ID: 692124 6/1/2009 1:27 AM
Re: Noah's flood. Where did all the water come from, where'd it all go?
DGN -- I've been meaning to ask this. Isn't the simplest and most plausible explanation for the arrival of the waters of the Flood, and their retreat towards the end of Noah's voyage, simple that God Did It?
Why should the supernatural require a physical explanation? Why should we try to hamper the actions of a Deity with mundane physics? Didn't He create physics as well? Then He should be able to violate them any time He needs to.
This is my question, then, to all Flood Geologists -- why this effort to find a naturalistic explanation for the Biblical Flood?
Quoting: nomuse (NLI) 679859
I'm sure God is much more logical than you. Have you ever asked yourself why noone has ever seen a God? Didn't Moses say God is spirit? If the "Source" is spirit, then we are the creators. I know...you don't understand. Science and spirituality are ONE. You can't have science without God.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 602429 6/1/2009 1:48 AM
Re: Noah's flood. Where did all the water come from, where'd it all go?
Earth's day was just about the same length preflood as now. However, the Earth was 01.45% close to the Sun than it is now. It was hotter then as compared to now. There was more water in the atmosphere then as compared to now.
As you can see, 12,500 years ago, the sea level was MUCH LOWER than it is now (by approximately 105 meters (i.e., 300-320 feet lower then as compared to now). A huge amount of water was in the atmosphere and also tied up in glaciers.
This would have been about 12,500 years ago or so.
12,500 years ago there was an ABRUPT WARMING that released all the ice and then there was global cooling that made all the water in the atmosphere precipitate out.
Put in 90 meters (about 270 feet) rise. You can play what if if you like. You can also put in -100 (for 300 foot below current so to see the sea level 12,500 years ago. You could basically walk to Spain from France. You could walk to England from Europe. You could walk to the Northern Hemisphere from Asia. You could walk to Australia from Indonesia (almost). The Mediterranean Sea was probably not there; perhaps it was an inland lake/sea but much smaller than now.
As today most people live within 25 miles of the coasts of the world it is reasonable to conclude that a 300 foot rise in sea level would constitute a "Great Flood" that would basically wipe out the whole show.
Do your own research for more fun.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 679187 6/1/2009 1:52 AM
Re: Noah's flood. Where did all the water come from, where'd it all go?
its when comet VENUS came in, ripping all the water and atmosphere off the surface of mars, dumping it on earth, and flipping the earth's pole 90 degress.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 347120 6/1/2009 7:38 AM
Re: Noah's flood. Where did all the water come from, where'd it all go?
11,600 years ago, an asteroid struck the Atlantic Fault line just south of the continent of Atlantis. This penetrated the eart's crust and split the fault up either side of the continent of Atlantis. The "fountains of the deep" (magma) under extremely high pressure were uncovered by this violent event. Magma blew high into the stratosphere. The magma came from underneath the Atlantis continent causing Atlantis to sinto the sea "in just one day". Water from the ocean poured into this magma flow, forming superheated steam. This steam was also blown high into the stratosphere. This process would have gone on for many days until the magma flow was finally frozen and the wound in the ocean floor healed. The initial event also rocketed clear water into suborbital trajectories. This water flash froze in the vacuum of space and fell back to earth as clear hail.... this accounts for the discovery of entire herds of animals found completeky buried in clear ice... all still traveling in the same direction. Also accounts fro Mammoths found frozen with green grass and buttercups in their stomachs.
The muddy steam from the oceam encircled the world as the larger part of the Atlantic ocean fell back down as muddy rain from the sky. People far from the impact had no idea what had happened. people close to the impact were killed by the blast wave. A huge hole still exists in the ocean in this area today. Also, elliptical lakes are found all across the Carolina states , oriented in the same direction... these are from secondary impactors that broke away from the main object... these are called the Carolina bays.
The flood was real, it was a real flood. This is why you find wood chunks 60 feet deep when you drill a well in Ohio today... because the muddy rain left deposits that deep. The volcanic clay is also all over Arkansas and is dug up today as a commodity... it is called Bentonite clay. You will not find a single fossil in the midst of this clay as it was all laid down in a few days... the fossils are UNDERNEATH it.
This was a very bad day.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 354026
Ok, I am impressed. Good read !
Duncan Kunz The Debunker King User ID: 10104 6/1/2009 12:44 PM
Re: Noah's flood. Where did all the water come from, where'd it all go?
Pre-flood year length: 360 days.
Post-flood year length: 365.24 days.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 602429
Assuming that your 'flood' timeline is 12,500 years ago, where did you get the data which shows an change in the length of the year at that time period?
Post-flood current Earth data:
avg. radius = (152 + 147 million km)/2
= 149.5 million km
C = 2πr = 2[pi](149,500,000 km)
= 939,336,203.4 km
v = C/T = 939336203.4 km/365.25 day
= 2571762.364 km/day
= 29.77 km/s
I'm sure you could make a case, using Kepler's Law, that a shorter rotational period would lead to a smaller orbit. but that begs the question i asked above: Where do you get your data about the rotational period suddenly increasing by five-plus days?
Earth's day was just about the same length preflood as now. However, the Earth was 01.45% close to the Sun than it is now. It was hotter then as compared to now. There was more water in the atmosphere then as compared to now.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 602429
Does the geological and/or pleontological record bear that out? i will be happy to agree that there were warming -- and cooling -- trends over the entire Cenozoic period, but if it were hotter then than now, how do you account for the Pleistocene glaciation at the same time?
As you can see, 12,500 years ago, the sea level was MUCH LOWER than it is now (by approximately 105 meters (i.e., 300-320 feet lower then as compared to now). A huge amount of water was in the atmosphere and also tied up in glaciers.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 602429
You just said a minute ago it was hotter! I wish you'd make up your mind. Those western imperialist warmongers beat us to the Moon. Damn!
Duncan Kunz The Debunker King User ID: 10104 6/1/2009 12:50 PM
Re: Noah's flood. Where did all the water come from, where'd it all go?
I read a theory that said Noah may have lived in the civilization located in the area at the bottom of what is now the Mediterranean Sea at the time that the land plug at the Strait of Gibralter broke and flooded the basin with seawater.
Quoting: lynleo 510696
That is exactly what Ryan and Pitman (see my cite above) mention, but the culture you're talking about was along the shores of a fresh-water lake which became inundated when the water from the Mediterranean flooded over what is now the Bosporus, and became the Black Sea.
Most geologists believe the Mediterranean flooded earlier than that. Those western imperialist warmongers beat us to the Moon. Damn!
Duncan Kunz The Debunker King User ID: 10104 6/1/2009 1:22 PM
Re: Noah's flood. Where did all the water come from, where'd it all go?
DGN quotes Ostria who posts: THE “NOAH’S FLOOD” THEORY
In their 1999 book, Noah’s Flood, Columbia University marine geologists William Ryan and Walter Pitman describe a possible scenario at the end of the last ice age—about 12,000 years ago. As the Earth’s temperatures rose and the ice melted, waters in the Mediterranean Sea swelled, apparently putting pressure on a natural earthen dam that separated the Black Sea (then a freshwater lake) from the Mediterranean.
About 7,500 years ago the Mediterranean water supposedly spilled over the earthen dam and into the Black Sea. This flooding raised water levels in the Black Sea region by about 6 inches (15 centimeters) per day. The salt water of the Mediterranean was much denser than fresh water of the Black Sea.
***********
That would not Match Noah's flood, it occurred around 4,500 years ago.
Quoting: DGN
Well, that seems like a good argument that the Noah story is off by about 3,000 years, doesn't it? Those western imperialist warmongers beat us to the Moon. Damn!
DGN Revelation in real time User ID: 633927 6/4/2009 2:52 PM
Re: Noah's flood. Where did all the water come from, where'd it all go?
DGN -- I've been meaning to ask this. Isn't the simplest and most plausible explanation for the arrival of the waters of the Flood, and their retreat towards the end of Noah's voyage, simple that God Did It?
Why should the supernatural require a physical explanation? Why should we try to hamper the actions of a Deity with mundane physics? Didn't He create physics as well? Then He should be able to violate them any time He needs to.
This is my question, then, to all Flood Geologists -- why this effort to find a naturalistic explanation for the Biblical Flood?
I'm sure God is much more logical than you. Have you ever asked yourself why noone has ever seen a God? Didn't Moses say God is spirit? If the "Source" is spirit, then we are the creators. I know...you don't understand. Science and spirituality are ONE. You can't have science without God.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 692124
Do you mean we are the creation? Anyway, great expression on science and spirituality being inter wound, one cannot think scientifically without thinking spiritually. "For God’s wrath is being revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who are suppressing the truth in an unrighteous way, 19 because what may be known about God is manifest among them, for God made it manifest to them. 20 For his invisible [qualities] are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable." Ro1:18 [link to www.dgnglobal.com]
"The meek will inherit the earth, and indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace" Ps37:11
Anonymous Coward User ID: 694842 6/4/2009 3:34 PM
Re: Noah's flood. Where did all the water come from, where'd it all go?
First off, I am, from a "religious" standing point a JW through and through (unbaptized, yet studying for years upon years now - returning after longer leave of absence, long story).
Here's how I figured it, pieces everything together quite nicely (naturally ad-hoc and from the top of my head, I took this far more seriously and precisely a few years ago), the legends from other cultures and the esoteric realms of "brotherhoods" of whatever flavor, and hey, it even makes scientific sense.
You and me know (and others here no doubt) that there was a time that some call the "Golden age of old" but you and me know that it was everything but golden. I'm talking about as the Nephilim ruled.
The way I pieced it together over the years, it seems to me that this "golden age" ended as an ice "comet" (Which may have once been an ice or water planet - Nibiru, who knows) hit us. I am admittedly fond of the "Hovind Flood Theory". It does make good sense with some modifications (and no, the earth is most certainly not just 6000 years old - mankind however, I don't have any problem with). Masonic legends speak of seven impactors, ice fragments, as such, would have hit the poles, snowfall, icerain, rain, depending on the region. Cracking substrate layers of basalt release the waters from below and voilá, we have waters above and below.
Above all that, the "vapor canopy" of the Bible is indeed plausible, provided the earth had a different trajectory - a more ideal one - which would also make sense - getting hit by multiple large impactors no doubt has quite an effect. The collapse of the vapor canopy through the super-cooling - most should catch on here. Water, water and more water. That was alot of water. No kidding.
As far as where did the water go - well, it's still here.
What I love is that there is a wholly different way of seeing things, and it all makes far more sense (what old cultures, even aside the Bible has to say). Such events present a wholly different basis to the way we look at everything - especially things like carbon dating, which assumes the decay rate has always been the same - with a different trajectory and a vapor canopy things are a whole lot different I'd say.
I always found it a bit haughty of people in modern times to simply state that everything that was written back then is hocus pocus fairytales. While there were no doubt stupid and uneducated people back then, I'd say there's even more today :) - Yet principally, intelligence and discernment is anchored in our very species and has always been.
I find it sad that there is very little serious research in these fields under the assumption of these certain ground rules, and unfortunately the few that do poison it again with non-biblical gabbledy-gook like hardcore creationism nonsense, naturally under the guise of "bible loving". Egads.. it's the same underlying principle to the raison-d'être of the catholic church no?
As Satan realized he couldn't destroy the truth (who can?) he damned well poisoned every aspect of it and / or created (or let create) so many parallel "possible truths" so that no one would even dream of the original. Brilliant dialectic. Present only A and B and only few would ever envision C.
I'd love to discuss this topic a bit more in depth with some folk that have any sense in them. I have gotten quite a bit down pat over the years :)
Anonymous Coward User ID: 694842 6/4/2009 3:42 PM
Re: Noah's flood. Where did all the water come from, where'd it all go?
As a side note, did anyone here know that the Chinese character for "Ship" consists of three separate characters "Eight" "Men" "Boat".
Noah, Ham, Sem, Japhet + their wives.
Interesting isn't it?
And I found the modern theory that mankind comes from "seven great grandmothers" hilarious - wheres the problem in reducing it to four wheras their genetic pool was already a mix of the prior x-million (or billion) people that were here before the flood!
DGN Revelation in real time User ID: 633927 6/10/2009 1:08 AM
Re: Noah's flood. Where did all the water come from, where'd it all go?
First off, I am, from a "religious" standing point a JW through and through (unbaptized, yet studying for years upon years now - returning after longer leave of absence, long story).
Here's how I figured it, pieces everything together quite nicely (naturally ad-hoc and from the top of my head, I took this far more seriously and precisely a few years ago), the legends from other cultures and the esoteric realms of "brotherhoods" of whatever flavor, and hey, it even makes scientific sense.
You and me know (and others here no doubt) that there was a time that some call the "Golden age of old" but you and me know that it was everything but golden. I'm talking about as the Nephilim ruled.
The way I pieced it together over the years, it seems to me that this "golden age" ended as an ice "comet" (Which may have once been an ice or water planet - Nibiru, who knows) hit us. I am admittedly fond of the "Hovind Flood Theory". It does make good sense with some modifications (and no, the earth is most certainly not just 6000 years old - mankind however, I don't have any problem with). Masonic legends speak of seven impactors, ice fragments, as such, would have hit the poles, snowfall, icerain, rain, depending on the region. Cracking substrate layers of basalt release the waters from below and voilá, we have waters above and below.
Above all that, the "vapor canopy" of the Bible is indeed plausible, provided the earth had a different trajectory - a more ideal one - which would also make sense - getting hit by multiple large impactors no doubt has quite an effect. The collapse of the vapor canopy through the super-cooling - most should catch on here. Water, water and more water. That was alot of water. No kidding.
As far as where did the water go - well, it's still here.
What I love is that there is a wholly different way of seeing things, and it all makes far more sense (what old cultures, even aside the Bible has to say). Such events present a wholly different basis to the way we look at everything - especially things like carbon dating, which assumes the decay rate has always been the same - with a different trajectory and a vapor canopy things are a whole lot different I'd say.
I always found it a bit haughty of people in modern times to simply state that everything that was written back then is hocus pocus fairytales. While there were no doubt stupid and uneducated people back then, I'd say there's even more today :) - Yet principally, intelligence and discernment is anchored in our very species and has always been.
I find it sad that there is very little serious research in these fields under the assumption of these certain ground rules, and unfortunately the few that do poison it again with non-biblical gabbledy-gook like hardcore creationism nonsense, naturally under the guise of "bible loving". Egads.. it's the same underlying principle to the raison-d'être of the catholic church no?
As Satan realized he couldn't destroy the truth (who can?) he damned well poisoned every aspect of it and / or created (or let create) so many parallel "possible truths" so that no one would even dream of the original. Brilliant dialectic. Present only A and B and only few would ever envision C.
I'd love to discuss this topic a bit more in depth with some folk that have any sense in them. I have gotten quite a bit down pat over the years :)
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 694842
OK.. I'm finding this late and i'm tired. 9's, can you cover this ..... I promise to come back... (keep on your study, and PREVAIL)
Last Edited by DGN on 6/10/2009 at 1:10 AM [link to www.dgnglobal.com]
"The meek will inherit the earth, and indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace" Ps37:11
Anonymous Coward User ID: 106290 6/10/2009 1:14 AM
Re: Noah's flood. Where did all the water come from, where'd it all go?
First off, I am, from a "religious" standing point a JW through and through (unbaptized, yet studying for years upon years now - returning after longer leave of absence, long story).
Here's how I figured it, pieces everything together quite nicely (naturally ad-hoc and from the top of my head, I took this far more seriously and precisely a few years ago), the legends from other cultures and the esoteric realms of "brotherhoods" of whatever flavor, and hey, it even makes scientific sense.
You and me know (and others here no doubt) that there was a time that some call the "Golden age of old" but you and me know that it was everything but golden. I'm talking about as the Nephilim ruled.
The way I pieced it together over the years, it seems to me that this "golden age" ended as an ice "comet" (Which may have once been an ice or water planet - Nibiru, who knows) hit us. I am admittedly fond of the "Hovind Flood Theory". It does make good sense with some modifications (and no, the earth is most certainly not just 6000 years old - mankind however, I don't have any problem with). Masonic legends speak of seven impactors, ice fragments, as such, would have hit the poles, snowfall, icerain, rain, depending on the region. Cracking substrate layers of basalt release the waters from below and voilá, we have waters above and below.
Above all that, the "vapor canopy" of the Bible is indeed plausible, provided the earth had a different trajectory - a more ideal one - which would also make sense - getting hit by multiple large impactors no doubt has quite an effect. The collapse of the vapor canopy through the super-cooling - most should catch on here. Water, water and more water. That was alot of water. No kidding.
As far as where did the water go - well, it's still here.
What I love is that there is a wholly different way of seeing things, and it all makes far more sense (what old cultures, even aside the Bible has to say). Such events present a wholly different basis to the way we look at everything - especially things like carbon dating, which assumes the decay rate has always been the same - with a different trajectory and a vapor canopy things are a whole lot different I'd say.
I always found it a bit haughty of people in modern times to simply state that everything that was written back then is hocus pocus fairytales. While there were no doubt stupid and uneducated people back then, I'd say there's even more today :) - Yet principally, intelligence and discernment is anchored in our very species and has always been.
I find it sad that there is very little serious research in these fields under the assumption of these certain ground rules, and unfortunately the few that do poison it again with non-biblical gabbledy-gook like hardcore creationism nonsense, naturally under the guise of "bible loving". Egads.. it's the same underlying principle to the raison-d'être of the catholic church no?
As Satan realized he couldn't destroy the truth (who can?) he damned well poisoned every aspect of it and / or created (or let create) so many parallel "possible truths" so that no one would even dream of the original. Brilliant dialectic. Present only A and B and only few would ever envision C.
I'd love to discuss this topic a bit more in depth with some folk that have any sense in them. I have gotten quite a bit down pat over the years :)
OK.. I'm finding this late and i'm tired. 9's, can you cover this ..... I promise to come back... (keep on your study, and PREVAIL)
Quoting: DGN
Cough, cough, sputter, sputter. Huh? Um, I'm actually kind of tired myself. But for you, I'll man the raft. For a couple seconds.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 106290 6/10/2009 1:17 AM
Re: Noah's flood. Where did all the water come from, where'd it all go?
First off, I am, from a "religious" standing point a JW through and through (unbaptized, yet studying for years upon years now - returning after longer leave of absence, long story).
Here's how I figured it, pieces everything together quite nicely (naturally ad-hoc and from the top of my head, I took this far more seriously and precisely a few years ago), the legends from other cultures and the esoteric realms of "brotherhoods" of whatever flavor, and hey, it even makes scientific sense.
You and me know (and others here no doubt) that there was a time that some call the "Golden age of old" but you and me know that it was everything but golden. I'm talking about as the Nephilim ruled.
The way I pieced it together over the years, it seems to me that this "golden age" ended as an ice "comet" (Which may have once been an ice or water planet - Nibiru, who knows) hit us. I am admittedly fond of the "Hovind Flood Theory". It does make good sense with some modifications (and no, the earth is most certainly not just 6000 years old - mankind however, I don't have any problem with). Masonic legends speak of seven impactors, ice fragments, as such, would have hit the poles, snowfall, icerain, rain, depending on the region. Cracking substrate layers of basalt release the waters from below and voilá, we have waters above and below.
Above all that, the "vapor canopy" of the Bible is indeed plausible, provided the earth had a different trajectory - a more ideal one - which would also make sense - getting hit by multiple large impactors no doubt has quite an effect. The collapse of the vapor canopy through the super-cooling - most should catch on here. Water, water and more water. That was alot of water. No kidding.
As far as where did the water go - well, it's still here.
What I love is that there is a wholly different way of seeing things, and it all makes far more sense (what old cultures, even aside the Bible has to say). Such events present a wholly different basis to the way we look at everything - especially things like carbon dating, which assumes the decay rate has always been the same - with a different trajectory and a vapor canopy things are a whole lot different I'd say.
I always found it a bit haughty of people in modern times to simply state that everything that was written back then is hocus pocus fairytales. While there were no doubt stupid and uneducated people back then, I'd say there's even more today :) - Yet principally, intelligence and discernment is anchored in our very species and has always been.
I find it sad that there is very little serious research in these fields under the assumption of these certain ground rules, and unfortunately the few that do poison it again with non-biblical gabbledy-gook like hardcore creationism nonsense, naturally under the guise of "bible loving". Egads.. it's the same underlying principle to the raison-d'être of the catholic church no?
As Satan realized he couldn't destroy the truth (who can?) he damned well poisoned every aspect of it and / or created (or let create) so many parallel "possible truths" so that no one would even dream of the original. Brilliant dialectic. Present only A and B and only few would ever envision C.
I'd love to discuss this topic a bit more in depth with some folk that have any sense in them. I have gotten quite a bit down pat over the years :)
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 694842
I've been asked to man this thread. Are you on speed?
Anonymous Coward User ID: 106290 6/10/2009 1:17 AM
Re: Noah's flood. Where did all the water come from, where'd it all go?
First off, I am, from a "religious" standing point a JW through and through (unbaptized, yet studying for years upon years now - returning after longer leave of absence, long story).
Here's how I figured it, pieces everything together quite nicely (naturally ad-hoc and from the top of my head, I took this far more seriously and precisely a few years ago), the legends from other cultures and the esoteric realms of "brotherhoods" of whatever flavor, and hey, it even makes scientific sense.
You and me know (and others here no doubt) that there was a time that some call the "Golden age of old" but you and me know that it was everything but golden. I'm talking about as the Nephilim ruled.
The way I pieced it together over the years, it seems to me that this "golden age" ended as an ice "comet" (Which may have once been an ice or water planet - Nibiru, who knows) hit us. I am admittedly fond of the "Hovind Flood Theory". It does make good sense with some modifications (and no, the earth is most certainly not just 6000 years old - mankind however, I don't have any problem with). Masonic legends speak of seven impactors, ice fragments, as such, would have hit the poles, snowfall, icerain, rain, depending on the region. Cracking substrate layers of basalt release the waters from below and voilá, we have waters above and below.
Above all that, the "vapor canopy" of the Bible is indeed plausible, provided the earth had a different trajectory - a more ideal one - which would also make sense - getting hit by multiple large impactors no doubt has quite an effect. The collapse of the vapor canopy through the super-cooling - most should catch on here. Water, water and more water. That was alot of water. No kidding.
As far as where did the water go - well, it's still here.
What I love is that there is a wholly different way of seeing things, and it all makes far more sense (what old cultures, even aside the Bible has to say). Such events present a wholly different basis to the way we look at everything - especially things like carbon dating, which assumes the decay rate has always been the same - with a different trajectory and a vapor canopy things are a whole lot different I'd say.
I always found it a bit haughty of people in modern times to simply state that everything that was written back then is hocus pocus fairytales. While there were no doubt stupid and uneducated people back then, I'd say there's even more today :) - Yet principally, intelligence and discernment is anchored in our very species and has always been.
I find it sad that there is very little serious research in these fields under the assumption of these certain ground rules, and unfortunately the few that do poison it again with non-biblical gabbledy-gook like hardcore creationism nonsense, naturally under the guise of "bible loving". Egads.. it's the same underlying principle to the raison-d'être of the catholic church no?
As Satan realized he couldn't destroy the truth (who can?) he damned well poisoned every aspect of it and / or created (or let create) so many parallel "possible truths" so that no one would even dream of the original. Brilliant dialectic. Present only A and B and only few would ever envision C.
I'd love to discuss this topic a bit more in depth with some folk that have any sense in them. I have gotten quite a bit down pat over the years :)
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 694842
Your post is a study in contrast. You state you're a JW, but you're not baptized. To me, that means you're not a JW. Many of the things you've mentioned, don't appear to be from the Bible, which reinforces my opinion.
Probably something I'm not understanding. Is there something in the Bible about the Golden Age? I've heard of it in Greek mythology, and I belive it was Hinduism, and some eastern religions. Or, if you're talking about the Nephilim and Annunaki, I have no basis to even discuss it, because I don't go there.
I'm curious why you're fond of Kent Hovind's theory. Or assumptions. Hasn't some of his work been determined to be plagerized? He provides theories that can't be tested, so it's not scientific. His theory has never been presented for peer review, has it?
You sound like an intelligent person, but as I said, it's really a study in contrast. And I don't believe you are, or ever were, a JW.
Hope you find someone with some sense in them to discuss it with you.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 699216 6/10/2009 1:49 AM
Re: Noah's flood. Where did all the water come from, where'd it all go?
You don't have to release "waters from below".... the fountains of the deep are MAGMA.... a comet hit in the oceam that cracks the crust would do this, the deep magma is at thousands of PSIA and the gas dissolved in it is also at thousands of PSIA... when released to atmosphere it effervesces like a soda that is shaken up, the liquid rock becomes an explosive expanding foam. When in the sea it becomes a fountain of hot muddy steam that erupts almost up into space and spans the entire globe. The rain covers the earth and a finely divided clay made from the expanded rock particles setlles over and buries everything... Also clear water that was ejected from the sea by the initial impact is flash frozen by the vacuum of space and falls from the sky a thousand miles away as clear hail... this buries everything in seconds.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 340808 6/10/2009 1:53 AM
Re: Noah's flood. Where did all the water come from, where'd it all go?
You don't have to release "waters from below".... the fountains of the deep are MAGMA.... a comet hit in the oceam that cracks the crust would do this, the deep magma is at thousands of PSIA and the gas dissolved in it is also at thousands of PSIA... when released to atmosphere it effervesces like a soda that is shaken up, the liquid rock becomes an explosive expanding foam. When in the sea it becomes a fountain of hot muddy steam that erupts almost up into space and spans the entire globe. The rain covers the earth and a finely divided clay made from the expanded rock particles setlles over and buries everything... Also clear water that was ejected from the sea by the initial impact is flash frozen by the vacuum of space and falls from the sky a thousand miles away as clear hail... this buries everything in seconds.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 699216
So, did God send a comet to cause the flood? I thought it started to rain when Noah finished the ark.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 699216 6/10/2009 2:00 AM
Re: Noah's flood. Where did all the water come from, where'd it all go?
could have been a comet.. GOD does things the most efficient way. If the comet was 2000 miles away from Noah he would never know the REASON for the rain, but it would start suddenly and be terrible. The water would come from the ocean which continued to pour into the crack in the crust and be vaporized. Eventually the wound in the crust would seal shut as the water froze the magma. Perhaps the fallen Angels were on the continent of Atlantis which sank because of the impact. Noah would have to be thousands of miles away from the pimary event or the blast wave would kill him.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 106290 6/10/2009 2:04 AM
Re: Noah's flood. Where did all the water come from, where'd it all go?
could have been a comet.. GOD does things the most efficient way. If the comet was 2000 miles away from Noah he would never know the REASON for the rain, but it would start suddenly and be terrible. The water would come from the ocean which continued to pour into the crack in the crust and be vaporized. Eventually the wound in the crust would seal shut as the water froze the magma. Perhaps the fallen Angels were on the continent of Atlantis which sank because of the impact. Noah would have to be thousands of miles away from the pimary event or the blast wave would kill him.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 699216
That's very interesting!
Anonymous Coward User ID: 106290 6/10/2009 2:05 AM
Re: Noah's flood. Where did all the water come from, where'd it all go?
Was it from the exchange in atmosphere densities when the great celestial bodies dueled?
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 340808
That was an awesome video. Very humbling to realize how little we actually know about the universe. It also makes me wonder what irreparable damage we've done in the name of science.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 106290 6/10/2009 2:18 AM
Re: Noah's flood. Where did all the water come from, where'd it all go?
You don't have to release "waters from below".... the fountains of the deep are MAGMA.... a comet hit in the oceam that cracks the crust would do this, the deep magma is at thousands of PSIA and the gas dissolved in it is also at thousands of PSIA... when released to atmosphere it effervesces like a soda that is shaken up, the liquid rock becomes an explosive expanding foam. When in the sea it becomes a fountain of hot muddy steam that erupts almost up into space and spans the entire globe. The rain covers the earth and a finely divided clay made from the expanded rock particles setlles over and buries everything... Also clear water that was ejected from the sea by the initial impact is flash frozen by the vacuum of space and falls from the sky a thousand miles away as clear hail... this buries everything in seconds.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 699216
This is going to sound really stupid, but please bear with me. The PSIA of Old Faithful is, what, about 80? So if the magma is thousands of PSIA, is that what causes the flash freeze resulting in hail thousands of miles away? I'm pondering why Old Faithful doesn't produce such results.
DGN Revelation in real time User ID: 633927 7/4/2009 5:24 PM
Re: Noah's flood. Where did all the water come from, where'd it all go?
You don't have to release "waters from below".... the fountains of the deep are MAGMA.... a comet hit in the oceam that cracks the crust would do this, the deep magma is at thousands of PSIA and the gas dissolved in it is also at thousands of PSIA... when released to atmosphere it effervesces like a soda that is shaken up, the liquid rock becomes an explosive expanding foam. When in the sea it becomes a fountain of hot muddy steam that erupts almost up into space and spans the entire globe. The rain covers the earth and a finely divided clay made from the expanded rock particles setlles over and buries everything... Also clear water that was ejected from the sea by the initial impact is flash frozen by the vacuum of space and falls from the sky a thousand miles away as clear hail... this buries everything in seconds.
So, did God send a comet to cause the flood? I thought it started to rain when Noah finished the ark.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 106290
I really don't think God simply recycled the ocean, but brought up water from the aquafir, as well as down from the water canopy. "11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on this day all the springs of the vast watery deep were broken open and the floodgates of the heavens were opened. 12 And the downpour upon the earth went on for forty days and forty nights. 13 On this very day Noah went in, and Shem and Ham and Ja′pheth, Noah’s sons, and the wife of Noah and the three wives of his sons with him, into the ark..." Ge7:11 [link to www.dgnglobal.com]
"The meek will inherit the earth, and indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace" Ps37:11
DGN Revelation in real time User ID: 749383 8/23/2009 12:12 PM
Re: Noah's flood. Where did all the water come from, where'd it all go?
Was it from the exchange in atmosphere densities when the great celestial bodies dueled?
That was an awesome video. Very humbling to realize how little we actually know about the universe. It also makes me wonder what irreparable damage we've done in the name of science.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 106290
We've only tried to expand Eden and make global paradise, why have we failed? "I well know, O Jehovah, that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step." Jer10:23 I thought that was an exageration until I considered mankind's history, and what the nuclear arsenel could do. Howerev God won't let torch his earth. " “We thank you, Jehovah God, the Almighty, the One who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and begun ruling as king. 18 But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time for the dead to be judged, and to give [their] reward to your slaves the prophets and to the holy ones and to those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth.”
Rv11:18 [link to www.dgnglobal.com]
"The meek will inherit the earth, and indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace" Ps37:11
Anonymous Coward User ID: 354026 8/23/2009 12:24 PM
Re: Noah's flood. Where did all the water come from, where'd it all go?
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