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WATCH MS - MORGAN STANLEY - are they short GOLD?!

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Me114 Subscriber
aka ladynada
User ID: 323570
10/10/2008 7:18 AM

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WATCH MS - MORGAN STANLEY - are they short GOLD?!
Quote

WATCH MS are they short GOLD?!

MORGAN STANLEY

Gold Price Manipulation- Bear Stearns Murdered at the Golden Gates - 10th Oct 08 - Rob_Kirby

[link to www.marketoracle.co.uk]

read the whole article with charts

quote:

"....

What folks need to realize is that a 12 billion injection [long or short] into the ‘relatively illiquid' medium-term gold futures complex [1 – 5 yrs.] – has much more market influence than 9 billion notional [or a like amount] in < than 1 yr. - as occurred in March 08. Cumulatively, the shorts added by J.P. Morgan over a very short period of time, like days or a couple of weeks, is utterly mind numbing – akin to having an elephant jumping through a key-hole. That the gold market was able to absorb this almost unthinkable, intentional, premeditated “criminal shellacking” at the hands of J.P. Morgan Chase is a testament to how enormous global investment demand really is for GOLD .

That J.P. Morgan Chase – an institution with historic and deep links to the Federal Reserve – acted in a criminal fashion is beyond-a-shadow-of-a-doubt. They are and have unquestionably engaged in “ INSIDER TRADING ” and completely desecrated the COMMODITIES TRADING LAW BOOK.

...

"
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The TWO Witnesses are Mom and Dad & they're coming to give YOU a SPANKING
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Me114 Subscriber
aka ladynada
User ID: 323570
10/10/2008 7:19 AM
Re: WATCH MS - MORGAN STANLEY - are they short GOLD?!Quote

MS closed at 12.45 thursday
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The TWO Witnesses are Mom and Dad & they're coming to give YOU a SPANKING
[link to heartdaughter.com]
Official Elijah Blog
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Me114 Subscriber
aka ladynada
User ID: 323570
10/10/2008 7:20 AM
Re: WATCH MS - MORGAN STANLEY - are they short GOLD?!Quote

[link to www.bloomberg.com]

Morgan Stanley Extends Drop as Moody's Says Rating May Be Cut

By Philip Lagerkranser

Oct. 10 (Bloomberg) -- Morgan Stanley dropped for a fifth day after Moody's Investors Service said it may reduce the U.S. investment bank's credit rating on concern the financial crisis threatens earnings and investor confidence.

Morgan Stanley fell 5 percent to $11.80 in German trading after slumping 26 percent yesterday in New York to its lowest level since 1996. Moody's put Morgan Stanley's A1 long-term rating on review for a possible downgrade and lowered its outlook for Goldman Sachs Group Inc.'s Aa3 long-term rating to negative.

``An extended downturn in global capital market activity will reduce Morgan Stanley's revenue and profit potential in 2009, and perhaps beyond this period,'' Moody's said in an e-mailed statement.

The possible downgrade adds to pressure on Chief Executive Officer John Mack as he seeks to assure shareholders and clients about the company's long-term health. The bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. and emergency sales of Merrill Lynch & Co. and Bear Stearns Cos. sparked concern that companies like Morgan Stanley that depend on debt markets will run out of funding.

``Investor, counterparty and customer confidence is critical to the funding and profit generation of the firm, especially in a hostile market environment,'' Moody's said in its statement on Morgan Stanley.

Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs declined yesterday in New York Stock Exchange composite trading as a short-selling ban expired and concern grew about their earnings prospects. The New York-based firms have transformed themselves into bank holding companies and raised money from outside investors to help weather the credit market turmoil that toppled Lehman Brothers.

...

see link for more
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The TWO Witnesses are Mom and Dad & they're coming to give YOU a SPANKING
[link to heartdaughter.com]
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Me114 Subscriber
aka ladynada
User ID: 323570
10/10/2008 10:43 AM
Re: WATCH MS - MORGAN STANLEY - are they short GOLD?!Quote

MS closed at 12.45 thursday
 Quoting: Me114


MS quote 9.57
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The TWO Witnesses are Mom and Dad & they're coming to give YOU a SPANKING
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 433665
10/10/2008 10:45 AM
Re: WATCH MS - MORGAN STANLEY - are they short GOLD?!Quote

What does SHORT GOLD Mean?
Me114 Subscriber
aka ladynada
User ID: 323570
10/10/2008 11:21 AM
Re: WATCH MS - MORGAN STANLEY - are they short GOLD?!Quote

What does SHORT GOLD Mean?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 433665



MS is 8.89

it means they made trades betting Gold would go down, which means if Gold goes up they would lose lotsa money

but we dont know if they are short gold... its based on that article
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The TWO Witnesses are Mom and Dad & they're coming to give YOU a SPANKING
[link to heartdaughter.com]
Official Elijah Blog
[link to heartdaughter.com]
Me114 Subscriber
aka ladynada
User ID: 323570
10/10/2008 2:54 PM
Re: WATCH MS - MORGAN STANLEY - are they short GOLD?!Quote

Crammer: Morgan Stanley Is the First Domino

LimeJuice2

NEW 10/10/2008 11:31:10 AM

Morgan Stanley Is the First Domino
2:05 PM EDT
If this one goes, watch out below
--
"Let's destroy Morgan Stanley (MS) before the deal gets done." That's what happened here. That's what the short-sell plan was about. It was to allow Bank of America (BAC) to get money in -- I have no idea why in heck they waited so long. It was about allowing Citigroup (C) to raise capital. They turned out to be just as inept at raising capital as Freddie Mac (FRE) . And it was about letting Morgan Stanley make its deal.

Now the Japanese have to wonder what to do. They can't overpay like this. They either have to buy the whole thing or walk away. That's squarely in the hands of Christopher Cox. We know that this was pure Kesselschlacht, the credit default swap buy, the puts, the short-selling, the "double up on the credit default swaps to move them up," the "call the media," the "freak out the ratings agencies" and voila, it's all over. I have said this over and over and over, and it is so obvious how this plan works that I am embarrassed that the SEC hasn't figured it out.

This game plan was stopped by the short-selling ban. If the government had waived the time between when Morgan Stanley was offered the capital and when the deal got done, it could have avoided this tragedy. The government's hands have blood on them if Morgan Stanley goes down, and obviously if MS goes down, we'll realize the '87 downside target of Dow 5900, either on Monday or Tuesday.

Lets detail the issues that hang in the balance between 1987 and 1929, with 1987 meaning we bounce at 5900 and 1929 meaning a Great Depression that will not allow us to own stocks, period. Remember, in an '87 scenario we wait a year and we make money, but we didn't have financial cataclysms. In 1929, we catch a bounce in November but you had to sell that thing nine ways to Sunday.

1. If Morgan Stanley goes under, we will have another round of Lehman-like disasters that could wipe out most of the annuities in this country.

2. If GM (GM) and Ford (F) go under, we will most likely have double-digit unemployment, which then limits the value of a lot of the other things the government is trying.

3. If we do not cordon off a series of institutions and say, "You will be saved," and then let the others be taken over that could be important, again, we will hit my downside target.

Right now the only countries with capital are the OPEC countries. I know it is heresy, but we need the Saudis and the Kuwaitis in to help shore up our own banks. They do have the money and they haven't lost it yet, that we know of.

It is so politically unpalatable that it is probably not going to happen. We wouldn't let 'em own our ports, after all.

The alternative is a deep-cover operation to put money right into banks and demand that they lend it, but that's probably way too creative for these guys, who couldn't even figure out an uptick rule in time to save things.

At the time of publication, Cramer was long Morgan Stanley.
=+=+=+=

The TWO Witnesses are Mom and Dad & they're coming to give YOU a SPANKING
[link to heartdaughter.com]
Official Elijah Blog
[link to heartdaughter.com]
Me114 Subscriber
aka ladynada
User ID: 323570
10/10/2008 3:00 PM
Re: WATCH MS - MORGAN STANLEY - are they short GOLD?!Quote

[link to stockcharts.com]

MS is 7.37 now
=+=+=+=

The TWO Witnesses are Mom and Dad & they're coming to give YOU a SPANKING
[link to heartdaughter.com]
Official Elijah Blog
[link to heartdaughter.com]
fnfal
User ID: 518680
10/10/2008 3:09 PM
Re: WATCH MS - MORGAN STANLEY - are they short GOLD?!Quote

Since printing money adds to the overall supply but the amount of goods and services stays the same, that means each dollar is worth less...or inflation.

One sneaky way to print more dollars but to still keep its value is to fake all the indicators that would show inflation. Oil and Gold prices are considered indicators.

To keep Gold prices down one tool they can do is naked short sell.

All those billions we voted for can be used as collateral by unethical players to sell huge amounts of Gold to drop its price...but the kicker they dont own or have this Gold their selling. Since most dont take possesion of this Gold, its only on paper.

After the prices are beat down, some time later in the future they buy "it" back in increments to close out the tranaction.





What does SHORT GOLD Mean?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 433665
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 522652
10/10/2008 3:13 PM
Re: WATCH MS - MORGAN STANLEY - are they short GOLD?!Quote

<they haven't lost it yet, that we know of.>
ExhaleAeonVolts
User ID: 444542
10/10/2008 3:15 PM
Re: WATCH MS - MORGAN STANLEY - are they short GOLD?!Quote

Since printing money adds to the overall supply but the amount of goods and services stays the same, that means each dollar is worth less...or inflation.

One sneaky way to print more dollars but to still keep its value is to fake all the indicators that would show inflation. Oil and Gold prices are considered indicators.

To keep Gold prices down one tool they can do is naked short sell.

All those billions we voted for can be used as collateral by unethical players to sell huge amounts of Gold to drop its price...but the kicker they dont own or have this Gold their selling. Since most dont take possesion of this Gold, its only on paper.

After the prices are beat down, some time later in the future they buy "it" back in increments to close out the tranaction.






What does SHORT GOLD Mean?
 Quoting: fnfal 518680


Thank you. Very informative.
Angels Don't Grow on Wall Street. -E.A.V.

“Get the facts first. You can distort them later. ” - Mark Twain

Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.

- Thomas Jefferson
Me114 Subscriber
aka ladynada
User ID: 323570
10/10/2008 3:27 PM
Re: WATCH MS - MORGAN STANLEY - are they short GOLD?!Quote

i wonder when they will either stop or run out of our money
=+=+=+=

The TWO Witnesses are Mom and Dad & they're coming to give YOU a SPANKING
[link to heartdaughter.com]
Official Elijah Blog
[link to heartdaughter.com]
Me114 Subscriber
aka ladynada
User ID: 323570
10/28/2008 2:23 PM
Re: WATCH MS - MORGAN STANLEY - are they short GOLD?!Quote

see anything unusual?
=+=+=+=

The TWO Witnesses are Mom and Dad & they're coming to give YOU a SPANKING
[link to heartdaughter.com]
Official Elijah Blog
[link to heartdaughter.com]
S.P.Q.R
User ID: 515748
10/28/2008 2:26 PM
Re: WATCH MS - MORGAN STANLEY - are they short GOLD?!Quote

price is down due to Mitsubishi (Bank) selling stock to raise capital putting their deal with MS in question.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 537077
10/28/2008 2:29 PM
Re: WATCH MS - MORGAN STANLEY - are they short GOLD?!Quote

Since printing money adds to the overall supply but the amount of goods and services stays the same, that means each dollar is worth less...or inflation.

One sneaky way to print more dollars but to still keep its value is to fake all the indicators that would show inflation. Oil and Gold prices are considered indicators.

To keep Gold prices down one tool they can do is naked short sell.

All those billions we voted for can be used as collateral by unethical players to sell huge amounts of Gold to drop its price...but the kicker they dont own or have this Gold their selling. Since most dont take possesion of this Gold, its only on paper.

After the prices are beat down, some time later in the future they buy "it" back in increments to close out the tranaction.






What does SHORT GOLD Mean?
 Quoting: fnfal 518680


Good explanation. I would add clarification that in the futures markets, you do not have to own something to sell it. So you can enter into the transaction long (buying) or short (selling), which means you are selling something at that price which you hope to buy later at a lower price for a profit.
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