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stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism

 
Cold War Confusion Continues
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10/28/2008 08:41 PM
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stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Socialism -
System of social organization in which private property and the distribution of income are subject to social control; also, the political movements aimed at putting that system into practice. Because "social control" may be interpreted in widely diverging ways, socialism ranges from statist to libertarian, from Marxist to liberal. The term was first used to describe the doctrines of Charles Fourier, Henri de Saint-Simon, and Robert Owen, who emphasized noncoercive communities of people working noncompetitively for the spiritual and physical well-being of all (see utopian socialism). Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, seeing socialism as a transition state between capitalism and communism, appropriated what they found useful in socialist movements to develop their "scientific socialism." In the 20th century, the Soviet Union was the principal model of strictly centralized socialism, while Sweden and Denmark were well-known for their non-communist socialism.

Communism -
In its broadest meaning communism describes a society in which all its members jointly (communally) own its resources and in which the society's wealth and products are distributed equally to everyone. The term has been applied to premodern social and political constructs, such as communal societies propounded in Plato's Republic and in Thomas More's Utopia; to proposals of some radicals in the French Revolution of 1787; and to ideal communities advocated by nineteenth-century reformers such as Charles Fourier and Robert Owen, but none of these systems corresponded fully with the principles of communism.

Most often, communism designates the ultimate good society espoused by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels in their Communist Manifesto of 1848 and the ideas and Soviet system in twentieth-century Russia associated with Vladimir Lenin and the Bolshevik Party. The latter usage is a misnomer: Neither Lenin nor later Soviet leaders ever claimed that communism had been established in the Soviet Union. Nevertheless, they willingly adopted the label, since it furthered their revolutionary and propagandistic purposes. As a result, in general discussion and writing, the Soviet state and its post-World War II offshoots in Eastern Europe, China, North Korea, North Vietnam, Cambodia, and Cuba were generally called "communist." Correspondingly, leaders of the Soviet Union, of other similarly constituted states, and of revolutionary parties worldwide that adhered to Marxist-Leninist doctrine were known as "communists."

More accurately, however, communism signifies only the very last step in the historical process and the ultimate and highly desirable goal of human development as outlined in Marx's economic, social, and political philosophy. Influenced by egalitarian ideas current in the eighteenth-century Enlightenment, Marx was outraged by what he saw as the unjust nature of the economic system spawned by the Industrial Revolution, which he called capitalism. Marx and Engels portrayed history as determined inevitably by "scientific" laws, which divided human social evolution into five broad stages: "gentilism," sometimes referred to as "primitive communism," with individuals living in clans and holding property in common; "slavery" based on slave labor; "feudalism" dependent on serf labor; "capitalism," in which entrepreneurs or capitalists exploited workers (the proletariat) and controlled the government; and "socialism," with public ownership replacing private capital and the emergence of a classless society providing justice, equity and freedom for all. Since conflict and class struggle, the mechanism for social change, would not exist in this new order, socialism would be the final stage of history and the highest level of human development.

Marx noted, however, that socialism would have two phases: the lower phase, also known as "socialism," and a higher phase, "communism." The latter would be the ultimate good society benefiting all mankind. In the lower, socialist phase, the whole society would own its productive forces, or the economy, but work would still be valued and paid differentially and distribution of the society's goods and wealth would not yet be equal. To reach the higher, communist phase, two requirements had to be met. First, the productive forces of society, restricted by the capitalists in a vain attempt to prop up their profits, would be liberated, and the economy, hugely expanded by modern scientific and technological inputs, would become capable of producing "a superabundance of goods." This enormous output would permit everyone to have whatever they needed. Second, in counterbalance, an individual's needs would be limited and sensible, because society would develop, through education and by example, "a new-type socialist person." Reoriented individuals would desire only what was truly necessary to sustain life, eschewing ostentation and waste. They would also contribute to the socialist society altruistically, applying their work and varied talents to the common welfare. With the superabundance of goods and the new socialist individual, society could then be organized on the principle: "from each according to his ability; to each according to his needs." Thus, communism would mark an end to coercion, want, and inequality.
Anonymous Coward
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10/28/2008 08:41 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
fluoride
Anonymous Coward
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10/28/2008 08:49 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
The goal of socialism is communism.

- Vladimir Lenin

[link to www.brainyquote.com]
Who's Stupid???
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10/28/2008 08:54 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
By your own submission, it is acknowledged that Socialism is a "more primitive step in evolution" in the pursuit of that goal of total communism.

So Obama is starting at Socialism, and will have to work hard to move us "up" to the next step, low-level Communism! Thank God you've enlightened us as to what the difference is, so we can be very wary not to take the next step "UP". LOL
Anonymous Coward
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10/28/2008 08:57 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
By your own submission, it is acknowledged that Socialism is a "more primitive step in evolution" in the pursuit of that goal of total communism.

So Obama is starting at Socialism, and will have to work hard to move us "up" to the next step, low-level Communism! Thank God you've enlightened us as to what the difference is, so we can be very wary not to take the next step "UP". LOL
 Quoting: Who's Stupid??? 397067


It ain't just obama, buddy.

GM, Chrysler Think "redistribution of wealth" is VERY GOOD Idea!
[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]

Even though you McCain stooges would rather ignore it.
Ikaika

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10/28/2008 08:59 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
We aren't all stupid.
Anonymous Coward
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10/28/2008 09:14 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Some of you may find this news article revealing.

[link to news.bbc.co.uk]
Anonymous Coward
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10/28/2008 09:25 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Supernormal

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10/28/2008 09:43 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
More accurately, however, communism signifies only the very last step in the historical process and the ultimate and highly desirable goal of human development as outlined in Marx's economic, social, and political philosophy. Influenced by egalitarian ideas current in the eighteenth-century Enlightenment, Marx was outraged by what he saw as the unjust nature of the economic system spawned by the Industrial Revolution, which he called capitalism. Marx and Engels portrayed history as determined inevitably by "scientific" laws, which divided human social evolution into five broad stages: "gentilism," sometimes referred to as "primitive communism," with individuals living in clans and holding property in common; "slavery" based on slave labor; "feudalism" dependent on serf labor; "capitalism," in which entrepreneurs or capitalists exploited workers (the proletariat) and controlled the government; and "socialism," with public ownership replacing private capital and the emergence of a classless society providing justice, equity and freedom for all. Since conflict and class struggle, the mechanism for social change, would not exist in this new order, socialism would be the final stage of history and the highest level of human development.
 Quoting: Cold War Confusion

What a manifesto! Biased much, comrade?
Let the truth be your religion.
Anonymous Coward
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10/28/2008 09:46 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
The goal of socialism is communism.

- Vladimir Lenin

[link to www.brainyquote.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 537538

Yeah and Lenin is dead. Many European countries have been governed by socialist leaders without wishing to be communist.
Free Store.

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10/28/2008 09:54 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
GLP panel listen...wasn't Woodstock both a socialism/communism model for the world to see or was it only communism
....................
scimitar

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10/28/2008 09:55 PM

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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
There is a place of moderation somewhere between the extremes of human ideology. This is where we should be. The difficulty has always been, where is the middle ground?

Ego will dictate self esteem.......
Self esteem will dictate arrogance.......
Arrogance will dictate conflict.......
Conflict will dictate War......
War will dictate death.......

Who among you have no ego?
One Truth.... many realities
Anonymous Coward
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10/28/2008 09:56 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
McCain calls Obama a Socialist but...
[link to www.youtube.com]

McCain is actually a Socialist himself.
[link to www.youtube.com]
Anonymous Coward
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10/28/2008 09:59 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Socialism IS communism!!!
The great stupid here is the OP.
Go to read freak!
Go to study!
Look for facts idiot!!!
Anonymous Coward
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10/28/2008 10:01 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Socialism is the first step.. marxism.. then communism all have been tried and all have failed. It will be a cold day in hell before real AMericans will vote in someone who believes in stealing from someone to give to someone else.. go earn your own damned money leave mine alone!
Fantasia II
Koo Koo Ka Choo

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10/28/2008 10:01 PM

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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Socialism is the bridge to communism.
George Orwell was right..Black is White, Up is Down, War is Peace...

"Never believe anything until it has been officially denied."

Yesterday is history.......Tomorrow a mystery.......Today is a gift......thats why we call it the Present!!!
Anonymous Coward
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10/28/2008 10:03 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Socialism IS communism!!!
The great stupid here is the OP.
Go to read freak!
Go to study!
Look for facts idiot!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 533229


Hey friend, looky here:

[link to news.bbc.co.uk]
Anonymous Coward
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10/28/2008 10:11 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Socialism IS communism!!!
The great stupid here is the OP.
Go to read freak!
Go to study!
Look for facts idiot!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 533229

I agree let's have a cold war with Spain, Norway and some other European countries.
Killuminati
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10/28/2008 10:18 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Capitalism is dead too.
So fuck them all.
Nebulous

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10/28/2008 10:19 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
OP: that's the thing. it doesn't matter what oppression is called on paper. it tends to always be the same with a few holding power over millions. you think that Stalin really spread wealth any differently than Marx, China, Or the Eastern Bloc? Nope. It' was all oppression.

When a government takes away what you have earned and gives it to someone that has not, it is robbery.It's not for the running of government, it's indentured servitude. That's what communism, socialism, fascism, totalitarianism IS.
Your Focus Determines Your Reality.
Lotus Feet

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10/28/2008 10:20 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Ever lived with a true socialist OP? They were called REDS UNDER THE BED in the last century.

Where there is no spiritual freedom there is always oppression.

Lotus
i love satan
anonymous
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10/28/2008 10:23 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
in russia waiting list for yrs for highly educated man and wife to get a small no frills apt of thier own...stuck with relatives..russian females prefer only 1 child for ovious reason. future hardships would make it tuff for woman alone with kids.....
Anonymous Coward
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10/28/2008 10:25 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
The communist conspiracy edited the definition to throw you.

What they claim communism is and what they do with it are two different things.

Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR) This was the first communist country although patterned after the French Revolution.


Communist China (CCP) This is still a communist country.


North Korea, Cuba, United Nations and world socialism.
Anonymous Coward
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10/28/2008 10:28 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Marxism - a Time Line
[link to www.bnp.org.uk]


The Marxist dream of a one world dictatorship is now closer than ever to achieving it’s goal. They’ve been working to achieve their goal for a long, long time - the following time line will give you an idea of how long, as well as showing just how deeply entrenched within the political establishment the Marxist cancer really is!

KARL MARX.1818-1883
Marx was a German Jew with radical views.

In 1842 he became a member of the Hegelians an anti-religious,radical group with Satanic interests.

In 1843 he left Germany and went to Paris where he met Engels who helped him financially.

In 1845 he was expelled from Paris.

In 1848 went to live in Brussels were he wrote the Communist Manifesto.

In 1849 Marx moved to London and lived there for the rest of his life.

In 1864 following the establishment of the Working Men’s Association. Marx worked for many years on the affairs of First International. “Das Kapital” was published 1867.

MARX died in 1883 in London and is buried in Highgate Cemetery.

THE COMMUNIST MANIFESTO INCLUDES:
The Abolition of Private Property
The Abolition of the Family.
The Abolition of Countries and Nationalities.

The Abolition of all Religions, morality and Religious Liberty,

The Abolition of Freedom of conscience.

The word Communist covers anyone who aspires to World Government. Marxism works towards achieving World Government and World Dictatorship.

MARX WITH HIS FRIENDS
Marx and his friends Engles and Balunin received their ideas from Moses Hess, the founder of the German Social Democrat Party. Moses Hess taught that to gain a World State it could only be brought about by a revolution using class and racial hatred. He said race struggle is primary, class struggle is secondary.”

Mikhail Balunin said “That whatever the name or label of those who aspire to world government, they must be prepared to awake the devil in people and stir their passions for them to act.”

Passion, as with football hooligans, vandals and various peace groups and the race groups.

THREE REQUIREMENTS TO BECOME A MARXIST
Marx wrote three requirements for those who wished to join the fight for World Government.

1 To read the Communist and Revolutionary teachings of Marx and associates and work accordingly.
2 To work to destabilise nations both morally and financially.
3 To work to gain political control of the MONEY supply and the ASSETS of each Nation and put them BEYOND the REACH and CONTROL of each Government by ensuring that nations become INTER-DEPENDANT on each other for FOOD, MACHINERY and through LOANS.

Marx also said, “Steps should be taken to provide a master race to produce Leaders and Dictators”
(Could the first or second generation now be in place?)

RUSSIA 1917.
The Bolsheviks needed a good military base to succeed in their bid for world government. In the 19th Century the Bolsheviks tried to taker-over Russia and failed. In 1917 under cover of the First World War they started their second Campaign against RUSSIA, this time from a good military base. They seized control of BANKS and THE MONEY SUPPLY and STOCKS of FOOD. As the food ran out the people became too weak to fight the Bolsheviks terrorists. They are one arm of an organisation which seeks to bring about a one world state.

When Russia fell to the Bolsheviks. LENIN who was the LEADER of the SOCIAL DEMOCRATIC PARTY and became the first DICTATOR of the UNION OF SOVIET SOCIALIST REPUBLICS. Many of the countries surrounding Russia also became Communists states.

COMMUNIST INTERNATIONAL 1928
In 1928 The Communist International presented a three-stage plan for world government.

1 To level the economies of all nations by introducing a single currency.
2 To bring about REGIONAL UNION between various groups of Socialist Nations.
3 To amalgamate all these REGIONAL groups into the finale–the Worldwide Union of Socialist States.

COMMUNIST INTERNATIONAL 1938
In 1938 in the Communist International there appeared an official statement. It said “Dictatorship can only be established by the victory of Socialism in different countries. Then the joining of all the
other republics could complete the UNION OF SOCIALIST SOVIET REPUBLICS.”

1942 STALIN’S COMMUNIST GOAL. A WORLD MADE OF REGIONS.

Stalin defined the Intermediate goals of Communism necessary for the final take-over of the World.

1 TO CONFUSE, DISORGANISE AND DESTROY THE FORCES OF CAPITALISM AROUND THE WORLD.

2 TO BRING ALL NATIONS TOGETHER INTO A SINGLE WORLD SYSTEM. REGIONALISM.

3 Force advanced Countries to pour prolonged finance into under-developed Countries.

4 Divide the world into REGIONAL groups at the transitional stage to total World Government, then populations will more readily abandon their loyalty to their countries and accept loyalty to their REGION instead. Later the REGIONS can all be brought together into WORLD DICTATORSHIP.

5 We will indoctrinate the youth to embrace Marxism (under other labels ) as the correct and political social viewpoint.

6 Neutralise youth against religious influences of home and all other concepts of rigid morality which might interfere with the acceptance of Marxism and communist doctrine.

1942 at the same time, STALIN was co-operating with nations in the West to lay the foundations for the United Nations Organisation.

1943 A PAN NATIONAL ORGANISATION. THE UNITED NATIONS ORGANISATION

1. The formation of the United Nations Organisation was a necessary preliminary for the Russian Soviets.
2. In 1943 it was agreed that the post of Secretary General and Political Affairs should always be held by a nominee of the USSR.
3. The United Nations Buildings in New York contains a Satanic Chapel. This reflects the same theme.
4. In 1947 a Document was published “Design for Europe” promoting a United Nations Army. The army was eventually inaugurated in 1993. The creation of the EEC, The Treaty of Rome and the Treaty to Establish the European Union has been absolutely crucial for the plans for Communism and World Dictatorship.



THE DESTABILISATION OF THE BRITISH POLITICAL SYSTEM
In 1946 THE UNITED NATIONS ORGANISATION gained influence into the Sovereignty of the UNITED KINGDOM by THE STATUTORY INSTRUMENT ACT 1946 and three weeks later the UNITED NATIONS ACT 1946 which was brought before the HOUSE OF COMMONS when most Members had gone home. These two Acts ensured that the COMMUNIST wishes of the UNITED NATIONS SECRETARIAT and UNESCO are implemented in this country without making it obvious.

HAROLD WILSON signed an agreement with Soviet Union committing the British Government to back plans for a WORLD GOVERNMENT DICTATORSHIP. (Command paper 5924).


THE COMMUNIST HIDDEN AGENDA
Infiltration from the top
In Britain in 1940 at a meeting in Oxford the speaker Harold Wilson explained to the understanding audience how they could help make World Government happen. They should not join the Communist party they should join the Conservatives or Labour parties and lean to the Right and Left of those parties, so that when the time was right they must then create a smoke screen and come together as a party of national unity. He said confidently that one day he would be Prime Minister and so he was.


GAINING CONTROL OF THE FOOD SUPPLIES
In 1998 at a meeting of Agriculture Ministers in Brussels the EU’s long term plans for Britain were unfolded They said; Livestock farming in the Britain would be abolished and changed to Arable farming. This would take place without the consent of the British people.
anonymous
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10/28/2008 10:35 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Dr Zivago Omar Shariff and Julie Christie 1965 .. The Dr. comes home, during russian revolution war, to his family and his family mansion, and finds 15 families living there wearing his stuff ..and roaming all around proudly using his wealth for thier own welbeing....could this happen in advanced Obamaland.
Anonymous Coward
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10/31/2008 04:16 AM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 294651




Thanx, 294651

THIS NEEDS ITS OWN THREAD
Anonymous Coward
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Spain
10/31/2008 04:23 AM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
The goal of socialism is communism.

- Vladimir Lenin

[link to www.brainyquote.com]

Yeah and Lenin is dead. Many European countries have been governed by socialist leaders without wishing to be communist.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 532098



The funny part is that they convinced everyone that affordable, reliable healthcare was what Lenin was all about.
Xare

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10/31/2008 04:25 AM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Socialism and Communism both hold the same core belief of Interdependence. That the Individual must make sacrifice's for the betterment of the whole.

This is Collectivism.


And Americans oppose it by raising the banner of individualism.
Anonymous Coward
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10/31/2008 04:26 AM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Socialism is the bridge to communism.
 Quoting: Fantasia II




HOW is demanding that there be a LIMIT between rich and poor the same as trying to make everything equal.



Some people in this world own more than 50 billion, or 60 billion if you believe in the "conspiracies".



For one person.






Why not say that no person can own more than one billion?




Or maybe just five hundred million?










That still a hell of a lot of money, right?
kalamity kool

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10/31/2008 04:28 AM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Maybe capitalism should be peppered with a good shake of communism.
Anonymous Coward
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10/31/2008 04:33 AM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Stupid world, dictators and tyrants do not care what political party they are in.



The blood is on their hands, and we pay the price in increased radicalism, tanked economies, social injustice, and so much more.





They spent five decades teaching us that anyone who gave to the poor was a communist, and then to pretend Jesus didnt spend his whole life telling people to do just that.

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