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stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism

 
Anonymous Coward
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Spain
10/31/2008 04:35 AM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Maybe capitalism should be peppered with a good shake of communism.
 Quoting: kalamity kool



Or at least some ability for the hard workers to SEE what the fat cats are doing.
Anonymous Coward
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10/31/2008 04:44 AM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism


Idol1
Bluebird

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10/31/2008 04:45 AM

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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Stupid world, dictators and tyrants do not care what political party they are in.



The blood is on their hands, and we pay the price in increased radicalism, tanked economies, social injustice, and so much more.





They spent five decades teaching us that anyone who gave to the poor was a communist, and then to pretend Jesus didnt spend his whole life telling people to do just that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 450120



Where did Jesus ever say to rob anybody and give that to the poor? You are to give only from what you have, not steal from others to do it.

Obama and wifey gave 1% of their million dollar income to charity. Let's put him in charge! And he has relatives living in abject poverty but we are supposed to believe he cares about us?

This is insanity.
One of the most important aspects of conspiracy theories is being able to discern when there isn't one.

Oh yeah, like you'd understand anyway.

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?. . .J. Handy
Bluebird

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10/31/2008 04:47 AM

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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Maybe capitalism should be peppered with a good shake of communism.
 Quoting: kalamity kool


Which part? Maybe the purges? How many lost their lives in those?

I wonder how many don't even know what the purges were. Not that is really scary but something I fear is true and behind this new found love of all things in the lunatic leftist fringe.
One of the most important aspects of conspiracy theories is being able to discern when there isn't one.

Oh yeah, like you'd understand anyway.

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?. . .J. Handy
heh
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04/27/2009 10:54 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
you do know that hitler used socialism as a tool. Hitler never followed true socialist beliefs. banana2
Anonymous Coward
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05/02/2009 09:19 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
You can call it whatever the fuck you want but it is NOT American so FUCK OFF
hardboiledheretic

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05/02/2009 09:32 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Ahem I do know the difference and I'm an American.

Communism makes everyone poor lol Except for those in charge.

Socialism is more balanced; the people are taxed like hell but get lots of worker benefits. Socialism seems to work in small countries as best I can tell. In a huge country like the US though, I don't know. In some ways we're there now except for the workers' benefits. We simply pay for everyone else and get nothing back.

hbh
Anonymous Coward
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05/02/2009 09:34 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
US is not capitalist but paperlist !!
hari

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05/02/2009 10:05 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Fellow Travellors:

I think that when Americans express dislike of socialism it is so tied in to the failed Soviet and Chinese social experiments that what they really fear is rule by a small, secretive elite, loss of freedom, and societal direction being dictated from the top, and an unfair percentage of earned wealth, individual or family, being taken away as taxes.

In other words: the current order in America?
Getting there...

I'd worry about that classism and ruling elite that so many deny, which has always been in America.

(You Yanks should have strung-up that Connecticut-born Yale/Harvard boy George W. Bush for what he did to your freedoms. And I heard that he left dirty pajamas on the floor and toothpaste in the sink, and even absconded with the last role of toilet paper when he left the White House.)

Last Edited by hari on 05/02/2009 10:06 PM
Lastcall
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05/02/2009 10:21 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
The goal of socialism is communism.

- Vladimir Lenin

[link to www.brainyquote.com]

Yeah and Lenin is dead. Many European countries have been governed by socialist leaders without wishing to be communist.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 532098



Give it a few more years

They are literally kidnapping plant managers in France as bargaining chips in union negotiations


How long do you think it will be before they just start "appropriating" the whole plant?
Cranky
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05/02/2009 10:24 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
All of these systems are the same in the end but the USA has gone Communist and the proof is in the Communist Manifesto. Read the 10 Planks of the Communist Manifesto and it is clear that we are there. Consider "PROPERTY" and then see if you have yours after you can't or simply stop paying your tax bill. Then the government insists that passing your property to your children is TAXABLE. That is not FREEDOM but in fact welcome to COMMUNISM. Here for your displeasure, The 10 Planks of the Communist Manifesto:

"Although Marx advocated the use of any means, especially including violent revolution, to bring about socialist dictatorship, he suggested ten political goals for developed countries such as the United States. How far has the United States -- traditionally the bastion of freedom, free markets, and private property -- gone down the Marxist road to fulfill these socialist aims? You be the judge. The following are Marx's ten planks from his Communist Manifesto."

1. Abolition of private property in land and application of all rents of land to public purpose.

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.

6. Centralization of the means of communication and transportation in the hands of the state.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of Industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the population over the country.

10. Free education for all children in government schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc. etc.
Cranky
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05/02/2009 10:32 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
The USA is to be what is known as a Constitutional Republic. What we are supposed to be is in our pledge. Any of you fools that intend to give and try out a socialist based government should go and live in one but by all means do not come back! Treason and traitors the lot! GFY’s
anonanon

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05/02/2009 10:55 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
No matter what you call it, they both mean that the state owns you and decides how much wealth you can have.

Basically, I don't want the person who has spent his or her whole life collecting welfare having the same wealth that I have worked my whole life for. I don't want anyone to starve or not get medical care, but there is a limit to how much of what I have earned that I am willing to share.

Nor do I want someone else telling me how much I can earn.

Social control or communal control of wealth is all the same and just means that no individual has any wealth that doesn't belong to someone else.

Both attempt to bypass the very human trait of wanting to have your own stuff or wealth in addition to anything that is owned in common or by the state.

Both socialism and communism are contrary to the old fashioned values of self-reliance, self-sufficiency and self responsibility. By all means, let us help each other when the need arises as it has now. Let us support our charities and food banks and free clinics and shelters. Let us take care of those who are unable to take care of themselves and be generous to those who struggle from day to day just to get by.

But let us not put limits on anyone's success in this country. That is the one thing that has always led to prosperity and the one thing that has made the USA a wealthy country and given even the most common of people a reasonably comfortable standard of living. It is what has distinquished us from other countries and why so many try to get here by any means possible.
Anonymous Coward
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05/02/2009 11:48 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism





Thanx, 294651

THIS NEEDS ITS OWN THREAD
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 418035

burnit bump
Princess Bride

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05/03/2009 12:20 AM

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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
I know someone from a socialist country. She explained it this way. Everyone gets the "basics" like, Food, shelter,& medical. If you want more, then you get a job and earn it, but everyone gets the same to start with.

Just saying what I was told, not necessarily agreeing.
Heart of the heroes, ride.
Up through an empty house of stars,
Being what heart you are,
Up the inhuman steeps of space
As on a staircase go in grace,
Carrying the firelight on your face
Beyond the loneliest star.
"The Ballad Of The White Horse,"
G. K. Chesterton
spam [link to lunarose47.wordpress.com] blog[/url]
spam [link to w11.haters]
Anonymous Coward
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05/03/2009 12:51 AM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Fellow Travellors:

I think that when Americans express dislike of socialism it is so tied in to the failed Soviet and Chinese social experiments that what they really fear is rule by a small, secretive elite, loss of freedom, and societal direction being dictated from the top, and an unfair percentage of earned wealth, individual or family, being taken away as taxes.

In other words: the current order in America?
Getting there...

I'd worry about that classism and ruling elite that so many deny, which has always been in America.

(You Yanks should have strung-up that Connecticut-born Yale/Harvard boy George W. Bush for what he did to your freedoms. And I heard that he left dirty pajamas on the floor and toothpaste in the sink, and even absconded with the last role of toilet paper when he left the White House.)
 Quoting: hari


bsflag

For your information, Obama ordered all of Bush's toilet paper removed from the White House before he moved in. Obama wipes his ass with BLACK toilet paper!
Anonymous Coward
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05/03/2009 12:58 AM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
No you stupid prick it isn't.. Yet... It is the natural progression.
heh...
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05/04/2009 08:25 AM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
buh... the government doesnt control anyone in socialism, the people run...
Also for socialism to work everyone has to work... its not like 2 people work so 4 people can sit around and do nothing, everyone works and helps improve the lives of eachother which creates a better community. This is why socialism will never work in America unless the slackers are removed from the community.
STFU
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05/04/2009 08:29 AM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
or denied help from the community since they decided not to donate to the community in some way...
inca=chinitial
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05/04/2009 09:25 AM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
What is important in this thread is neither socialism not communism really ever functioned in any country because like all "isms" there's always the selfishness factor prsent in all societies: that is the ones who have control they become too greedy and screw the rest. Of course this is also truth in democracy in spite of the word or the idea invented back there in times of Greek Solon.

Marx, for example, as an atheistic person denied spiritual value in man hence he tried to explain the homo economicus as if we were machines or pieces of a big machine. It was naïve to believe spiritual values of a sort of thinkful animal could create equality for men. And even if man does have spiritual values or consciousness, there's too much power and wealth in the game ...too hard not to be caught in the trap.

That's why if you read "Down With Big Brother" you'll understand because of that selfishness the fistful of old Communist leaders -like rats- wanted to abandon the ship when Soviet Empire collapsed and made profit with the Capitalism they hated tooth and nail for 7 decades. Pretty convenient.

Wake up and climb down from Utopia cloud # 9 "social" paradise you have caressed so much time in your mind. It never existed during history of mankind since Sumerians, Assyrians, passing through all empires til now in front of your very blind eyes. Too much theory maybe is digging a hole in your empty head. You ought to read real history.
Next moron, I beg you...
Anonymous Coward
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05/04/2009 09:39 AM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
buh... the government doesnt control anyone in socialism, the people run...
Also for socialism to work everyone has to work... its not like 2 people work so 4 people can sit around and do nothing, everyone works and helps improve the lives of eachother which creates a better community. This is why socialism will never work in America unless the slackers are removed from the community.
 Quoting: heh... 666234


Duh!

The Slacker?

You mean the ones on SOCIAL SERVICES?!
Anonymous Coward
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05/04/2009 10:04 AM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
All of these systems are the same in the end but the USA has gone Communist and the proof is in the Communist Manifesto. Read the 10 Planks of the Communist Manifesto and it is clear that we are there. Consider "PROPERTY" and then see if you have yours after you can't or simply stop paying your tax bill. Then the government insists that passing your property to your children is TAXABLE. That is not FREEDOM but in fact welcome to COMMUNISM. Here for your displeasure, The 10 Planks of the Communist Manifesto:

"Although Marx advocated the use of any means, especially including violent revolution, to bring about socialist dictatorship, he suggested ten political goals for developed countries such as the United States. How far has the United States -- traditionally the bastion of freedom, free markets, and private property -- gone down the Marxist road to fulfill these socialist aims? You be the judge. The following are Marx's ten planks from his Communist Manifesto."

1. Abolition of private property in land and application of all rents of land to public purpose.

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.

6. Centralization of the means of communication and transportation in the hands of the state.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of Industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the population over the country.

10. Free education for all children in government schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc. etc.

 Quoting: Cranky 586322


Gee, all that is applied in America.
Anonymous Coward
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Slovakia
05/04/2009 10:07 AM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
You can call it whatever the fuck you want but it is NOT American so FUCK OFF
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 654384

Right. One pretty day the communist will hand on trees like pears. Btw - today is very pretty day! Anyone got the inspiration?
Just Saying
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05/05/2009 12:08 AM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Yes, there is a fine difference between socialism and communism. Socialism sucks ass and communism sucks balls.

The day you decide that society owes you food and shelter is the day you die spiritually. Look at nature! In a bee hive bees don't sit around expecting the commune to feed them, they work like hell ... and enjoy it.
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2010 07:11 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
This is what it should be (old one in brackets if changed or removed):

1. Land is considered private property. If it is used to produce goods that increase the GNP you get tax credits. This could be goods, power, trees, etc. Idle land is taxed.
(Abolition of private property in land and application of all rents of land to public purpose.)

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax. Money goes out the top and back to the bottom. The bottom buys stuff and the money goes back to the top. Easy cycle., no trickle down.

3. All private property can be inherited.
(Abolition of all rights of inheritance.)

4. Confiscation of the property of all rebels. If someone is a traitor, we get their stuff.

5. Credit can be given by anyone who has the money to back it up, be this the national bank or a private bank. Private banks cannot borrow from the national bank and re-credit.(Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.)

6. Communication and transportation in the hands of private citizens and/or the state. EG Buses and private taxis.
(Centralization of the means of communication and transportation in the hands of the state.)

7. Government run environmental and social programs in order to promote social health and sustainability. Non-governmental organizations used to administer these programs.
(Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.)

8. Equal obligation of all to work. Those that don't will loose rights eg (don't work, can't vote*). Those that can't will be supported.
(Establishment of Industrial armies, especially for agriculture.)
*If you don't want to be a productive and responsible human being and live of others, then you don't have a say in what happens around you.

9. People are free to live and work where they please. As long as they (Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the population over the country.)

10. Free education for all children in government and private schools with the same basic syllabus. Focus on higher sciences and technology. (Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc. etc.)

All this talk about agriculture is pointless. Soon robots will be doing all the manual labor, so we need to plan for a society that works that way. We need as society that is based on mental labor. Instead of selling our lives to do robotic tasks we should be selling our lives to do the one thing computers can't: Think!
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2010 07:19 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Socialism -
System of social organization in which private property and the distribution of income are subject to social control; also, the political movements aimed at putting that system into practice. Because "social control" may be interpreted in widely diverging ways, socialism ranges from statist to libertarian, from Marxist to liberal. The term was first used to describe the doctrines of Charles Fourier, Henri de Saint-Simon, and Robert Owen, who emphasized noncoercive communities of people working noncompetitively for the spiritual and physical well-being of all (see utopian socialism). Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, seeing socialism as a transition state between capitalism and communism, appropriated what they found useful in socialist movements to develop their "scientific socialism." In the 20th century, the Soviet Union was the principal model of strictly centralized socialism, while Sweden and Denmark were well-known for their non-communist socialism.

Communism -
In its broadest meaning communism describes a society in which all its members jointly (communally) own its resources and in which the society's wealth and products are distributed equally to everyone. The term has been applied to premodern social and political constructs, such as communal societies propounded in Plato's Republic and in Thomas More's Utopia; to proposals of some radicals in the French Revolution of 1787; and to ideal communities advocated by nineteenth-century reformers such as Charles Fourier and Robert Owen, but none of these systems corresponded fully with the principles of communism.

Most often, communism designates the ultimate good society espoused by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels in their Communist Manifesto of 1848 and the ideas and Soviet system in twentieth-century Russia associated with Vladimir Lenin and the Bolshevik Party. The latter usage is a misnomer: Neither Lenin nor later Soviet leaders ever claimed that communism had been established in the Soviet Union. Nevertheless, they willingly adopted the label, since it furthered their revolutionary and propagandistic purposes. As a result, in general discussion and writing, the Soviet state and its post-World War II offshoots in Eastern Europe, China, North Korea, North Vietnam, Cambodia, and Cuba were generally called "communist." Correspondingly, leaders of the Soviet Union, of other similarly constituted states, and of revolutionary parties worldwide that adhered to Marxist-Leninist doctrine were known as "communists."

More accurately, however, communism signifies only the very last step in the historical process and the ultimate and highly desirable goal of human development as outlined in Marx's economic, social, and political philosophy. Influenced by egalitarian ideas current in the eighteenth-century Enlightenment, Marx was outraged by what he saw as the unjust nature of the economic system spawned by the Industrial Revolution, which he called capitalism. Marx and Engels portrayed history as determined inevitably by "scientific" laws, which divided human social evolution into five broad stages: "gentilism," sometimes referred to as "primitive communism," with individuals living in clans and holding property in common; "slavery" based on slave labor; "feudalism" dependent on serf labor; "capitalism," in which entrepreneurs or capitalists exploited workers (the proletariat) and controlled the government; and "socialism," with public ownership replacing private capital and the emergence of a classless society providing justice, equity and freedom for all. Since conflict and class struggle, the mechanism for social change, would not exist in this new order, socialism would be the final stage of history and the highest level of human development.

Marx noted, however, that socialism would have two phases: the lower phase, also known as "socialism," and a higher phase, "communism." The latter would be the ultimate good society benefiting all mankind. In the lower, socialist phase, the whole society would own its productive forces, or the economy, but work would still be valued and paid differentially and distribution of the society's goods and wealth would not yet be equal. To reach the higher, communist phase, two requirements had to be met. First, the productive forces of society, restricted by the capitalists in a vain attempt to prop up their profits, would be liberated, and the economy, hugely expanded by modern scientific and technological inputs, would become capable of producing "a superabundance of goods." This enormous output would permit everyone to have whatever they needed. Second, in counterbalance, an individual's needs would be limited and sensible, because society would develop, through education and by example, "a new-type socialist person." Reoriented individuals would desire only what was truly necessary to sustain life, eschewing ostentation and waste. They would also contribute to the socialist society altruistically, applying their work and varied talents to the common welfare. With the superabundance of goods and the new socialist individual, society could then be organized on the principle: "from each according to his ability; to each according to his needs." Thus, communism would mark an end to coercion, want, and inequality.
 Quoting: Cold War Confusion Continues 499185



What are all of these commie words?

If its not from the bible im not interested, that is all the reading i need to do you degenerate athesist commie marxist leninist scum!
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2010 07:42 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Socialism: "noncoercive communities of people working noncompetitively for the spiritual and physical well-being of all..." This could work except for one rather big problem. Not all people are human; that is, some physically lack the qualities of humanness, like compassion, empathy and an interest in another person's well-being. They are psychopaths, and they only have their own interests at heart.

What happens is that as a society ages, these non-humans rise to the top of the ladder, and as they do, they turn something that may have been good into what we live under today in the USA: greedy and unabashed capitalism that has turned into an oligarchy type fascism. The sad thing is that people live under the delusion that we have a democracy, that we are free, that the government always has our interests at heart.
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2010 07:45 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Socialism: "noncoercive communities of people working noncompetitively for the spiritual and physical well-being of all..." This could work except for one rather big problem. Not all people are human; that is, some physically lack the qualities of humanness, like compassion, empathy and an interest in another person's well-being. They are psychopaths, and they only have their own interests at heart.

What happens is that as a society ages, these non-humans rise to the top of the ladder, and as they do, they turn something that may have been good into what we live under today in the USA: greedy and unabashed capitalism that has turned into an oligarchy type fascism. The sad thing is that people live under the delusion that we have a democracy, that we are free, that the government always has our interests at heart.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 885984


Sounds to me like you just want something for free, or you want to take away from the people that work, typical commie liberal.

And we have lived in a democracy when the country was strong under regan and the bushes.
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2010 07:47 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
That's like saying you are HIV positive
but not full blown AIDS.
Not at 100% but getting there.
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2010 08:56 AM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Sounds to me like you just want something for free, or you want to take away from the people that work, typical commie liberal.

And we have lived in a democracy when the country was strong under regan and the bushes.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 872204


Don't you get it? The USA was not strong under Regan and the Bushes. They only gave tax cuts to the rich, not the normal people. And The Bushes started wars, causing the US to become the target of terrorists. How is that stronger?

Republicans = Tax Cuts FOR THE RICH

Democrats = Tax hikes FOR THE RICH

Unless you make 250K+ in take home pay in a year, the republicans won't help you financially, EVER. They may occasionally throw you a bone (causing massive deficits), but I want the government to serve me, not me serve the government.

I want my government to tell me everything it's doing. We, as the people of this country, have the right to know, in plain English, what they are up to. Republicans don't like this idea, they like the smokey backroom good old boys form of government, where it's run like some corporation.

The founding fathers didn't want this. They wanted open government that served the people.

I work 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year, yet I have to struggle to pay the bills. I don't want handouts, but I also don't like being ass raped by the insurance companies (who are run by a few very rich people) just so someone can have a Porsche. It's morally wrong but the Republicans support it.

I'm a socialist, I believe that to continue being a strong nation we have to a strong sense of social responsibility. We need to invest in education so that all children have the opportunity to excel and become responsible adults.

I'm not a communist. I don't want to stop people from working hard and becoming rich. In fact I support it with every inch of my being. I don't want everything owned by the people, I like my private property.

I'm a liberal. I support liberalism (
[link to en.wikipedia.org] I believe everyone has the right to live their life the way they want to without interference from others as long as they don't interfere in the freedom of others.

I'm not a conservative. I don't believe we should try and force the country to go back to how it was when I was a kid, because I realize that to survive we must march forward in the future with strength and compassion. Reaching for a past dream will never make the country strong. Learn from the past to make a better future, but don't try and constrain it based on false assumptions of some childhood fantasy.

I'm a progressive. I believe that the country my progress forward as that which doesn't progress and evolve will only stagnate and breed ill will. As technology changes the world, we must adapt and change with it.

So I'm a liberal progressive socialist who cares about his fellow human beings and would rather see a future where we all help each other than a future where we try and squash each other. If someone can tell me how this is wrong and hurts people, then I'm willing to have an ideology change.