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stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 885980
United States
02/09/2010 09:08 AM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism


Idol1
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 324342


LOL. The reason it looks this way, is because the Nazi's planned it to look that way. They had a propaganda department that specialized in convincing people of blatant lies. The people were tricked, not by socialism, but by humans using the guise of socialism to create a fascist nation.

Nazism is a good example of why government should be open and why government should answer to the people. Hitler, once he was voted in, threw out democracy. At that point he subverted the country and it's people to further his own goals. This is as anti-socialist as you can get.

The Nazis were fascists, not socialists, not communists, not democrats, not republicans, not any good form of government. They were fascists through and through.

Americans need to get over the cold war and realize they won it. They defeated the evil power that was trying to destroy them. They need to realize that the governmental system wasn't the evil power, but that the people behind it were evil. What kind of evil people were they? They were fascists too, pretending to be some kind of communistic/socialistic government.

A governmental system shouldn't be judged on the actions of people who don't believe or follow it. It should be judged on how effective it is when put into place by compassionate people who love their country and all the people in it.
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2010 09:08 AM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Socialism: "noncoercive communities"
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 885984


Stop right there, commie scum.

Like people born through no choice of their own into "socialist" communities have a choice whether they participate or not.

And no, fuck you, I won't leave and live elsewhere.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
02/09/2010 10:27 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Stop right there, commie scum.

Like people born through no choice of their own into "socialist" communities have a choice whether they participate or not.

And no, fuck you, I won't leave and live elsewhere.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 886365


So, it's ok to be a bum and live off the state (like so many people on welfare in the US) but it's not ok for the government (that is paying the welfare) to say you need to get a job?

Come on now.

Everyone born into every country that has an organized government has no choice but to participate in it. If you don't your branded a criminal and thrown in jail or kicked out of it.
Anonymous Coward
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Canada
02/09/2010 10:35 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
All modern, western cultures including the USA-have socialistic practices-ie taxes and municipalities where taxpayers pay for judges, politicians, teachers, firefighters and police salaries-anyone on this forum that doesn't know that is living in a fantasy.

The fact that the federal government pays for its military is also a socialistic practice.
Anonymous Coward
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Australia
02/09/2010 10:42 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Stop right there, commie scum.

Like people born through no choice of their own into "socialist" communities have a choice whether they participate or not.

And no, fuck you, I won't leave and live elsewhere.


So, it's ok to be a bum and live off the state (like so many people on welfare in the US) but it's not ok for the government (that is paying the welfare) to say you need to get a job?

Come on now.

Everyone born into every country that has an organized government has no choice but to participate in it. If you don't your branded a criminal and thrown in jail or kicked out of it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 885980



Who said anything about claiming welfare and living off the fucking tax-skimming state?

I work for a living. The state lives off me by thieving from my salary against my will, asshole.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 876736
United States
02/09/2010 10:43 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Its all been laid out for the last 230 years
Bluebird

User ID: 730536
United States
02/09/2010 10:50 PM

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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Stupid world, dictators and tyrants do not care what political party they are in.



The blood is on their hands, and we pay the price in increased radicalism, tanked economies, social injustice, and so much more.





They spent five decades teaching us that anyone who gave to the poor was a communist, and then to pretend Jesus didnt spend his whole life telling people to do just that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 450120



No, communists purge the poor, not give to them.
One of the most important aspects of conspiracy theories is being able to discern when there isn't one.

Oh yeah, like you'd understand anyway.

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?. . .J. Handy
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2010 11:04 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Socialism and Communism both hold the same core belief of Interdependence. That the Individual must make sacrifice's for the betterment of the whole.

This is Collectivism.


And Americans oppose it by raising the banner of individualism.
 Quoting: Xare

Bingo.We have a winner. bump
Anonymous Coward
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United States
02/09/2010 11:08 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
There is a place of moderation somewhere between the extremes of human ideology. This is where we should be. The difficulty has always been, where is the middle ground?

Ego will dictate self esteem.......
Self esteem will dictate arrogance.......
Arrogance will dictate conflict.......
Conflict will dictate War......
War will dictate death.......

Who among you have no ego?
 Quoting: scimitar

Echo
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 883927
United States
02/09/2010 11:11 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Socialism is the first step.. marxism.. then communism all have been tried and all have failed. It will be a cold day in hell before real AMericans will vote in someone who believes in stealing from someone to give to someone else.. go earn your own damned money leave mine alone!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 212087

You've never paid taxes?
'Cuz that's what that's all about...
Wealth redistribution.
Especially income tax.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 887024
Canada
02/09/2010 11:11 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Shhhhh......they might actually learn something.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 883927
United States
02/09/2010 11:13 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
OP: that's the thing. it doesn't matter what oppression is called on paper. it tends to always be the same with a few holding power over millions. you think that Stalin really spread wealth any differently than Marx, China, Or the Eastern Bloc? Nope. It' was all oppression.

When a government takes away what you have earned and gives it to someone that has not, it is robbery.It's not for the running of government, it's indentured servitude. That's what communism, socialism, fascism, totalitarianism IS.
 Quoting: Nebulous

Do none of you pay taxes?
Where can I find the duty free store and not pay income tax?
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2010 11:13 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
The goal of socialism is communism.

- Vladimir Lenin

[link to www.brainyquote.com]

Yeah and Lenin is dead. Many European countries have been governed by socialist leaders without wishing to be communist.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 532098


And Europe is a Fascist shithole. No thanks.

Fuck I hate your mindset and pretty soon we might get to do more than argue on the internet.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 883927
United States
02/09/2010 11:15 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Shhhhh......they might actually learn something.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 887024

Wait...
You are absolutely right.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 883927
United States
02/09/2010 11:19 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Stupid world, dictators and tyrants do not care what political party they are in.



The blood is on their hands, and we pay the price in increased radicalism, tanked economies, social injustice, and so much more.





They spent five decades teaching us that anyone who gave to the poor was a communist, and then to pretend Jesus didnt spend his whole life telling people to do just that.



No, communists purge the poor, not give to them.
 Quoting: Bluebird

One does not purge it's serf workforce.
One purges the middle class.
Get it straight.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 883927
United States
02/09/2010 11:25 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Socialism and Communism both hold the same core belief of Interdependence. That the Individual must make sacrifice's for the betterment of the whole.

This is Collectivism.


And Americans oppose it by raising the banner of individualism.

Bingo.We have a winner. bump
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 886484

Guess what.
Countries function because of interdependence.
it's called community.
We rely on certain things in the USA that would break down utterly without interdependence. Considering, simply, that trains and trucks, conductors and truckers, are depended upon to ship every single thing we use to build wealth around the country so we can continue to feel comfortable in our illusion of total independence. Interdependence is not the enemy. A baker is who you go to to get baked goods. like that.
Anonymous Coward
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Mexico
02/09/2010 11:31 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
The goal of socialism is communism.

- Vladimir Lenin

[link to www.brainyquote.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 537538


He is a bit on point. But...

Communism has created socialism to bring in communism. HOWEVER, the true defn of communism is not the definition that the majority of people know, understand or embrace.

For a better understanding of the much larger picture (as well as history), please read the classic short read "None Dare Call It Conspiracy". Know your enemy.

Read it online at Scribd:

[link to www.scribd.com]

.
SilverPatriot

User ID: 769623
United States
02/09/2010 11:44 PM

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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Instead of posting a long reply, I will leave two quotes that sum up my feelings:

"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
-- Margaret Thatcher, former Prime Minister of England

"How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin."
-- Ronald Reagan
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 871925
United States
02/09/2010 11:53 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
We aren't all stupid.
 Quoting: Ikaika


yes we are... just look at our leaders and we put up with them... hell we let them fleece us and PHUCK us and an and.. yes we are all stupid... so there.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 711379
United States
02/10/2010 12:09 AM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Stupid OP..Just figured out Socialism isn't Communism
and thinks he just invented the wheel..

What a dumb Fuck!!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 885980
United States
02/10/2010 11:32 AM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Who said anything about claiming welfare and living off the fucking tax-skimming state?

I work for a living. The state lives off me by thieving from my salary against my will, asshole.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 887006


Do you use the roads? Police? Firefighters? schools? public parks?

Your taxes pay for those things. You're the asshole for thinking that the state lives off you. You use all the things the state provides, to say they are thieving off you just goes to show how little you know about how countries work.

Or would you rather live in a 3rd world type country with no infrastructure? Do you want to drive to work on dirt paths? Moron.
bobnightman

User ID: 868959
United States
02/10/2010 11:33 AM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
I know the difference...But yes lots of stupid Americans think they are the same thing...Poor stupid people
12/21/12
AriaAngel

User ID: 773861
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02/10/2010 11:34 AM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
go move to CHINA or IRAN and live your FANTISY out.... we did not CHOOSE that way of life in the USA... REMEMBER.

Socialism -
System of social organization in which private property and the distribution of income are subject to social control; also, the political movements aimed at putting that system into practice. Because "social control" may be interpreted in widely diverging ways, socialism ranges from statist to libertarian, from Marxist to liberal. The term was first used to describe the doctrines of Charles Fourier, Henri de Saint-Simon, and Robert Owen, who emphasized noncoercive communities of people working noncompetitively for the spiritual and physical well-being of all (see utopian socialism). Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, seeing socialism as a transition state between capitalism and communism, appropriated what they found useful in socialist movements to develop their "scientific socialism." In the 20th century, the Soviet Union was the principal model of strictly centralized socialism, while Sweden and Denmark were well-known for their non-communist socialism.

Communism -
In its broadest meaning communism describes a society in which all its members jointly (communally) own its resources and in which the society's wealth and products are distributed equally to everyone. The term has been applied to premodern social and political constructs, such as communal societies propounded in Plato's Republic and in Thomas More's Utopia; to proposals of some radicals in the French Revolution of 1787; and to ideal communities advocated by nineteenth-century reformers such as Charles Fourier and Robert Owen, but none of these systems corresponded fully with the principles of communism.

Most often, communism designates the ultimate good society espoused by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels in their Communist Manifesto of 1848 and the ideas and Soviet system in twentieth-century Russia associated with Vladimir Lenin and the Bolshevik Party. The latter usage is a misnomer: Neither Lenin nor later Soviet leaders ever claimed that communism had been established in the Soviet Union. Nevertheless, they willingly adopted the label, since it furthered their revolutionary and propagandistic purposes. As a result, in general discussion and writing, the Soviet state and its post-World War II offshoots in Eastern Europe, China, North Korea, North Vietnam, Cambodia, and Cuba were generally called "communist." Correspondingly, leaders of the Soviet Union, of other similarly constituted states, and of revolutionary parties worldwide that adhered to Marxist-Leninist doctrine were known as "communists."

More accurately, however, communism signifies only the very last step in the historical process and the ultimate and highly desirable goal of human development as outlined in Marx's economic, social, and political philosophy. Influenced by egalitarian ideas current in the eighteenth-century Enlightenment, Marx was outraged by what he saw as the unjust nature of the economic system spawned by the Industrial Revolution, which he called capitalism. Marx and Engels portrayed history as determined inevitably by "scientific" laws, which divided human social evolution into five broad stages: "gentilism," sometimes referred to as "primitive communism," with individuals living in clans and holding property in common; "slavery" based on slave labor; "feudalism" dependent on serf labor; "capitalism," in which entrepreneurs or capitalists exploited workers (the proletariat) and controlled the government; and "socialism," with public ownership replacing private capital and the emergence of a classless society providing justice, equity and freedom for all. Since conflict and class struggle, the mechanism for social change, would not exist in this new order, socialism would be the final stage of history and the highest level of human development.

Marx noted, however, that socialism would have two phases: the lower phase, also known as "socialism," and a higher phase, "communism." The latter would be the ultimate good society benefiting all mankind. In the lower, socialist phase, the whole society would own its productive forces, or the economy, but work would still be valued and paid differentially and distribution of the society's goods and wealth would not yet be equal. To reach the higher, communist phase, two requirements had to be met. First, the productive forces of society, restricted by the capitalists in a vain attempt to prop up their profits, would be liberated, and the economy, hugely expanded by modern scientific and technological inputs, would become capable of producing "a superabundance of goods." This enormous output would permit everyone to have whatever they needed. Second, in counterbalance, an individual's needs would be limited and sensible, because society would develop, through education and by example, "a new-type socialist person." Reoriented individuals would desire only what was truly necessary to sustain life, eschewing ostentation and waste. They would also contribute to the socialist society altruistically, applying their work and varied talents to the common welfare. With the superabundance of goods and the new socialist individual, society could then be organized on the principle: "from each according to his ability; to each according to his needs." Thus, communism would mark an end to coercion, want, and inequality.
 Quoting: Cold War Confusion Continues 499185
Anonymous Coward
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02/10/2010 11:40 AM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Socialism and Communism both hold the same core belief of Interdependence. That the Individual must make sacrifice's for the betterment of the whole.

This is Collectivism.


And Americans oppose it by raising the banner of individualism.

Bingo.We have a winner. bump
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 886484


Another idiot. Personal individualism is separate from socialism. Personal individualism is the right to live your life the way you want (freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom to live and work where you want). Socialism is about paying for things that everyone needs to survive, it does not exclude individualism.

As the OP posted, socialism is not communism. Communism produces a society of drones. Socialism creates a society of individuals working together to help those less fortunate. It's about being responsible human beings instead of narcissistic pricks.

I love how the US claims to be a Christian country, but will happily throw away one of Christ's major teachings: Help those in need.

Any Christian in the USA that says socialism is bad is a hypocrite. Jesus taught socialism.

Of course, the people who oppose socialism are the ones that were brainwashed by the McCarthy era. I'll be glad once that generation of screwed up people are dead and the country can move forward.
Anonymous Coward
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02/10/2010 11:47 AM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
You are a commie pig!
GraftedPromise
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United States
02/10/2010 12:02 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Progressivism is a political and social term for ideologies and movements favoring or advocating changes or reform, usually in an egalitarian direction for economic policies (public management) and liberal direction for social policies. Progressivism is often viewed in opposition to conservative ideologies. Progressive Movement is a movement began in the cities with the settlement workers and reformers who were interested in helping those facing harsh conditions at home and at work. The reformers spoke out about the need for laws regulating tenement housing and child labor. They also called for better working condition for women.

In the United States, the term progressivism emerged in the late 19th century into the 20th century in reference to a more general response to the vast changes brought by industrialization: an alternative to both the traditional conservative response to social and economic issues and to the various more radical streams of socialism and anarchism which opposed them. Political parties, such as the Progressive Party, organized at the start of the 20th century, and progressivism made great strides under American presidents Theodore Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Lyndon Baines Johnson.[1]

Despite being associated with left-wing politics in the United States, the term "progressive" has occasionally been used by groups not particularly left-wing. The Progressive Democrats in the Republic of Ireland took the name "progressivism" despite being considered centre-right, or classical liberal. The European Progressive Democrats was a mainly heterogeneous political group in the European Union. For most of the period from 1942-2003, the largest conservative party in Canada was the Progressive Conservative Party.
Anonymous Coward
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France
02/10/2010 12:07 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Capitalism is not better than socialism or communism...
Evil Twin

02/10/2010 12:14 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
I don't want to live under either one.

<---Still and always a devout capitalist/individualist.
Anonymous Coward
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02/10/2010 02:02 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
This thread is a false paradigm.

Here is the real issue.

"Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria.
The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire
."
- Heinlein

Fascism, socialism, communism.. whatever name you want to give it, it is tyranny.
Anonymous Coward
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02/10/2010 02:06 PM
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Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Socialism and Communism both hold the same core belief of Interdependence. That the Individual must make sacrifice's for the betterment of the whole.

This is Collectivism.


And Americans oppose it by raising the banner of individualism.

Bingo.We have a winner. bump


Another idiot. Personal individualism is separate from socialism. Personal individualism is the right to live your life the way you want (freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom to live and work where you want). Socialism is about paying for things that everyone needs to survive, it does not exclude individualism.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 885980


Taking things from others through force is tyranny. It is in opposition to individualism and freedom.

I'm Allowed to Rob You!

[link to www.youtube.com]

"It was once said, in this country, that taxation without consent was robbery. And a seven years' war was fought to maintain that principle. But if that principle were a true one in behalf of three millions of men, it is an equally true one in behalf of three men, or of one man."

"Who are ever taxed? Individuals only. Who have property that can be taxed? Individuals only. Who can give their consent to be taxed? Individuals only. Who are ever taxed without their consent? Individuals only. Who, then, are robbed, if taxed without their consent? Individuals only."

"If taxation without consent is robbery, the United States government has never had, has not now, and is never likely to have, a single honest dollar in its treasury."

"If taxation without consent is not robbery, then any band of robbers have only to declare themselves a government, and all their robberies are legalized."

"If any man's money can be taken by a so-called government, without his own personal consent, all his other rights are taken with it; for with his money the government can, and will, hire soldiers to stand over him, compel him to submit to its arbitrary will, and kill him if he resists."

--Lysander Spooner, excerpt from a letter to Grover Cleveland, 1886

I love how the US claims to be a Christian country, but will happily throw away one of Christ's major teachings: Help those in need.

Any Christian in the USA that says socialism is bad is a hypocrite. Jesus taught socialism.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 885980


Jesus did not teach to take from others through violence, so this claim is incorrect.

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