Godlike Productions - Conspiracy Forum
Users Online Now: 1,561 (Who's On?)Visitors Today: 682,030
Pageviews Today: 892,661Threads Today: 180Posts Today: 3,774
08:35 AM


Rate this Thread

Absolute BS Crap Reasonable Nice Amazing
 

stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 887586
United States
02/10/2010 02:36 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
In a pure capitalist system, a person works for pay with which to provide for his basic needs and whatever else he might be able to afford. Main point...no work=no pay=no basics of life.

In a pure solialist system basics are provided as a right, no work needed. So how is a 'slacker' motivated to work if he is satisfied with the basics? Shame for being a slacker? That might work in some cases. For the others, the 'hard core slacker' there is only one answer, force. What quality of work can you expect from one being forced?

Under socialism, what is the incentive of striving for betterment in one's career if a large portion is taken to provide basics for the slackers?

Limited socialism SEEMS to work. Oprah did a documentary in sweeden and everything looked perfect til she visited a lady's apartment> Seeing the lack of storage space she asked, 'where do you keep you stuff'. The answer 'we don't have any stuff'
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 880683
United States
02/10/2010 02:40 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
pure socialism is not necessarily bad, but countries rarely practice pure socialism.. it's the fascist aspect of it, the micro-management of people's lives by banning this, regulating that, which gives socialism a bad name.

Pure socialism such as providing paid for health care and a helping hand in a time of need is a far cry from what most nations practice.

Socialism where everything is 'banned' and illegals are allowed to flood in such as what the US and Britain are doing are the worst forms though. Even worse when you have corporate welfare and the whole system being designed to funnel money to those that do nothing on the top, such is the case in the US.
me777

User ID: 774992
Canada
02/10/2010 02:43 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
OP: that's the thing. it doesn't matter what oppression is called on paper. it tends to always be the same with a few holding power over millions. you think that Stalin really spread wealth any differently than Marx, China, Or the Eastern Bloc? Nope. It' was all oppression.

When a government takes away what you have earned and gives it to someone that has not, it is robbery.It's not for the running of government, it's indentured servitude. That's what communism, socialism, fascism, totalitarianism IS.
 Quoting: Nebulous

bump hf
When thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
Isaiah 26:9

"Exposing Those Who Contradict"
[link to bible-truths.com]

"For as in Adam ALL die, so also in the Messiah will ALL be made alive."
[link to www.tentmaker.org]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 887586
United States
02/10/2010 02:44 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
you didn't explain how to motivate productivity under socialism, either for the slacker or the industrialist.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 610370
United States
02/10/2010 02:55 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
pure socialism is not necessarily bad,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 880683


What exactly is 'pure' socialism? Sounds like another name for tyranny, and tyranny is bad.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 887586
United States
02/10/2010 02:58 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
I used the term 'pure socialism' to indicate a system without any capitalist influence or support. There are lots of socialist leaning systems today that rely on capitalist ventures to keep them afloat.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 887586
United States
02/10/2010 03:08 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
To all you socialist wannabes...

I dare you to start a club where every member contributes all their earnings into a 'pool', then every member's needs are provided for from that pool, as determined by a committee.

That's your socialism.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 610370
United States
02/10/2010 03:46 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
I used the term 'pure socialism' to indicate a system without any capitalist influence or support. There are lots of socialist leaning systems today that rely on capitalist ventures to keep them afloat.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 887586


So it has violent and tyrannical support instead?

What are the socialist-leaning systems today that do not rely on violence/tyranny for their operation?

I guess you don't need to answer because the answer is probably that they do rely on violence and tyranny.

Assuming this is accurate, just tyranny under another name.
And tyranny is still bad.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 887586
United States
02/10/2010 03:59 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
I used the term 'pure socialism' to indicate a system without any capitalist influence or support. There are lots of socialist leaning systems today that rely on capitalist ventures to keep them afloat.


So it has violent and tyrannical support instead?

What are the socialist-leaning systems today that do not rely on violence/tyranny for their operation?

I guess you don't need to answer because the answer is probably that they do rely on violence and tyranny.

Assuming this is accurate, just tyranny under another name.
And tyranny is still bad.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 610370

you are preaching to the choir here, I agree with you. But if you notice, the systems that used violence or threats of it failed, until they allowed some amount of capitalism to emerge.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't MAKE him drink
You can put a worker in a factory, but you can't MAKE him produce.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 887586
United States
02/10/2010 04:09 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Why not say that no person can own more than one billion?




Or maybe just five hundred million?










That still a hell of a lot of money, right?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 450120

Is there a music artist you like, or a professional athlete?

What about we hold his/her total holdings to 500 million? Wouldn't they quit when they reached their lifetime cap? So the latest rap hit or a superbowl interception might not have happened.

Do you smoke, drink or eat hamburgers? What if we put a lifetime limit on those things?

The point is, where is the line drawn? What effect would a 'riches limit' have on society?

It's easy to creat dictates, but it's much harder to avoid unintended consequences.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2382334
Brazil
09/30/2011 05:19 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Interesting thread...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2382334
Brazil
09/30/2011 05:40 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Denmark is a socialist country, and I like their numbers:


- GDP per capita of 55,986 dollars (higher than the USA)

- The lowest income inequality in the world (the lowest GINI coeficient). It means they are the most equal country in the world.

- Human Development Index (HDI) in the "very high" category (they rank 19th in HDI in the world)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2382334
Brazil
09/30/2011 05:46 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
This is really interesting...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2382334
Brazil
09/30/2011 06:01 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
I like the "socialist" government (as some people call it) that we have here in Brazil...

I have nothing to complain. There is corruption, yes, but this is no novelty. Corruption always existed in Brazil's government, regardless of being a right-wing or left-wing government. And the current "socialist" president is trying to reduce corruption, firing corrupt ministers.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2382334
Brazil
09/30/2011 06:16 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
I don't think that "socialist" is any kind of swear-word.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1460424
United States
09/30/2011 06:20 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Oh most of us know. Only right wing, knuckle-dragging, sub-humans don't get it.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1337441
United States
09/30/2011 06:28 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Well they both suck shit and so do you.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2382334
Brazil
09/30/2011 06:34 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
I don't suck shit. Do you?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1210277
United States
09/30/2011 06:34 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
We know the difference, we just don't like either one.

So when we call them a commie, shit system, that's what we mean.

The problem is with YOU not understanding US, our ways, our culture, our meaning, our slang, our attitudes...These are all things that come with growing up here, being born here.


Let me use my grandfather as an example:
He was born in Ireland, he lived here for a great part of his life, he was an American citizen, but he was never an American. His son (my father) was American, my father was born here....
AlcoholicRunner
I abduct humans and drink at the same time.

User ID: 1556957
United States
09/30/2011 06:39 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Denmark is a socialist country, and I like their numbers:


- GDP per capita of 55,986 dollars (higher than the USA)

- The lowest income inequality in the world (the lowest GINI coeficient). It means they are the most equal country in the world.

- Human Development Index (HDI) in the "very high" category (they rank 19th in HDI in the world)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2382334


Denmark is a shitty small country that does nothing for the world.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2382334
Brazil
09/30/2011 06:40 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
So, basically, you hate something that you have never experienced...

Interesting...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2382334
Brazil
09/30/2011 06:42 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Denmark is a socialist country, and I like their numbers:


- GDP per capita of 55,986 dollars (higher than the USA)

- The lowest income inequality in the world (the lowest GINI coeficient). It means they are the most equal country in the world.

- Human Development Index (HDI) in the "very high" category (they rank 19th in HDI in the world)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2382334


Denmark is a shitty small country that does nothing for the world.
 Quoting: AlcoholicRunner




It's small. So what?

And about "doing nothing for the world", here is an incomplete list of people from that "small country" who won the Nobel Prize:

Jens Christian Skou, Chemistry, 1997
Niels Kaj Jerne, Physiology or Medicine, 1984
Aage Bohr, Physics, 1975
Ben Roy Mottelson, Physics, 1975
Henrik Dam, Physiology or Medicine, 1943
Johannes Andreas Grib Fibiger, Physiology or Medicine, 1926
Niels Bohr, Physics, 1922
August Krogh, Physiology or Medicine, 1920
TheTymeBeing

User ID: 1508999
United States
09/30/2011 06:52 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Socialism: "noncoercive communities of people working noncompetitively for the spiritual and physical well-being of all..." This could work except for one rather big problem. Not all people are human; that is, some physically lack the qualities of humanness, like compassion, empathy and an interest in another person's well-being. They are psychopaths, and they only have their own interests at heart.

What happens is that as a society ages, these non-humans rise to the top of the ladder, and as they do, they turn something that may have been good into what we live under today in the USA: greedy and unabashed capitalism that has turned into an oligarchy type fascism. The sad thing is that people live under the delusion that we have a democracy, that we are free, that the government always has our interests at heart.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 885984


Are people lacking in humanness, compassion, empathy and unselfishness a product of the society they grow up in?

In other words, does the society create these lower-form humans?

If people all grew up in a higher-form society, would they still develop their lower-form characteristics?

Last Edited by TheTymeBeing on 09/30/2011 06:58 PM
[link to www.thetymebeing.net]
Poetry and Musings from above the ground . . .
TheTymeBeing

User ID: 1508999
United States
09/30/2011 06:57 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Is there a music artist you like, or a professional athlete?

What about we hold his/her total holdings to 500 million? Wouldn't they quit when they reached their lifetime cap? So the latest rap hit or a superbowl interception might not have happened.

Do you smoke, drink or eat hamburgers? What if we put a lifetime limit on those things?

The point is, where is the line drawn? What effect would a 'riches limit' have on society?

It's easy to creat dictates, but it's much harder to avoid unintended consequences.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 887586


Do you think that the only thing that motivates people is money? Would not a true artist still practice their art for the sake of the art, for the pure joy of it regardless of the income it may generate?
[link to www.thetymebeing.net]
Poetry and Musings from above the ground . . .
non
User ID: 2382334
Brazil
09/30/2011 08:38 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Talk about socialism is not "heresy"...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1309355
United States
09/30/2011 11:35 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Instead of posting a long reply, I will leave two quotes that sum up my feelings:

"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
-- Margaret Thatcher, former Prime Minister of England

"How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin."
-- Ronald Reagan
 Quoting: SilverPatriot


Lol..Maggie Thatcher and Ronnie Reagan..not the two sharpest knives in the drawer, to put it mildly. I believe I would try and quote someone with a modicum of intellect.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1210277
United States
10/01/2011 01:28 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
Like who, your idols Hillary Clinton, and Barack Hussein Obama?


Lol..Maggie Thatcher and Ronnie Reagan..not the two sharpest knives in the drawer, to put it mildly. I believe I would try and quote someone with a modicum of intellect.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1101681
United States
10/01/2011 01:42 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
those who are defending socialism forget one thing, it doesn't work because it does not allow the market to decide prices. limits and arbitrary decreases and increases destroy price structure creating shortages. since the control of the economic system is by a few they will never have the inputs to figure what price is. that is why an unfettered free market works, thousands and millions of peoples input decide price. Mises, Bohm-Bulwerk and Hayek have proven that socialism as an economic model does not work. End of thread.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1178007
United States
10/01/2011 01:43 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
It's the government and their cronies who are the wealthy now. It's not a fued between rich or poor. It's about a government bent on crushing all private industry. Think about how that is going to work. How is it working for you so far?
DILKe

User ID: 1515869
United States
10/01/2011 12:05 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: stupid Americans: Socialism is not Communism
All of these systems are the same in the end but the USA has gone Communist and the proof is in the Communist Manifesto. Read the 10 Planks of the Communist Manifesto and it is clear that we are there. Consider "PROPERTY" and then see if you have yours after you can't or simply stop paying your tax bill. Then the government insists that passing your property to your children is TAXABLE. That is not FREEDOM but in fact welcome to COMMUNISM. Here for your displeasure, The 10 Planks of the Communist Manifesto:

"Although Marx advocated the use of any means, especially including violent revolution, to bring about socialist dictatorship, he suggested ten political goals for developed countries such as the United States. How far has the United States -- traditionally the bastion of freedom, free markets, and private property -- gone down the Marxist road to fulfill these socialist aims? You be the judge. The following are Marx's ten planks from his Communist Manifesto."

1. Abolition of private property in land and application of all rents of land to public purpose.

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.

6. Centralization of the means of communication and transportation in the hands of the state.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of Industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the population over the country.

10. Free education for all children in government schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc. etc.

 Quoting: Cranky 586322


bump

News