White House Pushes for Drug Testing of Students | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 538403 United States 10/29/2008 11:25 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 473633 United States 10/30/2008 12:07 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 531407 United States 10/30/2008 02:00 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Public schools are training kids to accept a the conditions that will exist in the camps. They are conditioning them to accept lack of freedoms or individual rights. Here are some examples from the public school my son attended last year. We now homeschool. They go to the bathroom on a strict schedule and never without permission between. They have assigned seats or tables at lunch and are not allowed to talk during the first 15 minutes out of a total of 25 minutes for lunch. They must walk silently, single file to and from lunch, or other classes with no touching of the walls or other students allowed. There is a police officer that roves the building with a loaded pistol. He meets with classes with the weapon on him to teach "gang prevention", but my son took home the booklet by accident and it is more about gathering personal information from the student and encouraging acceptance of a nanny state. There are cameras everywhere that you look in the building. Parents are buzzed in by a secretary, you sign in and wear a badge to enter. You show a drivers license. This elementary school is in a small town. It is surrounded by nothing but fields and distant neighborhoods. The security is over the top in this setting. |
ambiguity unlimited User ID: 538416 United States 10/30/2008 02:19 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 519178 United States 10/30/2008 02:21 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 536841 United States 10/30/2008 02:24 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | This is outrageous! There is a general understanding among law enforcement officials that someone who is committing a victimless crime in general has not been caught by virtue of the fact that he or she has not caused a problem. When and only when an officer ascertains information that the suspect has committed a crime can charges be brought against them. But, even if they are committing a crime, it goes without saying that they haven't been caught simply because it has not affected their outward behavior and appearance and has not detrimentally affected their life on the outside. With a victimless crime, only when the act of committing the crime itself infringes on someone else's rights or when it becomes a nuisance to the public at large should it be effectively prosecuted. In essence, a good teenager smoking pot who makes good grades; has a good relationship with his family, peers, and instructors; is not a delinquent youth, and basically has a bright future ahead of him should not be prosecuted. Outside of breaking the law he has done nothing wrong and it has not changed his life for the worse which is the only foreseeable reason for why it would be legislated against: To protect the individual using. And when it serves no immediate threat, then, there is never a legitimate reason for filing charges. Among other things this new program is unconstitutional and is a basic violation of the right to privacy. I think what you will see here is Republicans vastly opposing this measure. The so-called "tolerant and accepting" liberals will be the ones to support it. |
Rota User ID: 538213 United States 10/30/2008 02:28 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Test the kids for drugs. Charge them with some violation. Offer them prison or the military. No draft needed. Fresh meat for the meatgrinder. . |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 536841 United States 10/30/2008 02:35 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
ambiguity unlimited User ID: 538416 United States 10/30/2008 02:39 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | This is outrageous! There is a general understanding among law enforcement officials that someone who is committing a victimless crime in general has not been caught by virtue of the fact that he or she has not caused a problem. When and only when an officer ascertains information that the suspect has committed a crime can charges be brought against them. But, even if they are committing a crime, it goes without saying that they haven't been caught simply because it has not affected their outward behavior and appearance and has not detrimentally affected their life on the outside. With a victimless crime, only when the act of committing the crime itself infringes on someone else's rights or when it becomes a nuisance to the public at large should it be effectively prosecuted. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 536841In essence, a good teenager smoking pot who makes good grades; has a good relationship with his family, peers, and instructors; is not a delinquent youth, and basically has a bright future ahead of him should not be prosecuted. Outside of breaking the law he has done nothing wrong and it has not changed his life for the worse which is the only foreseeable reason for why it would be legislated against: To protect the individual using. And when it serves no immediate threat, then, there is never a legitimate reason for filing charges. Among other things this new program is unconstitutional and is a basic violation of the right to privacy. I think what you will see here is Republicans vastly opposing this measure. The so-called "tolerant and accepting" liberals will be the ones to support it. i dont know where you've been.... school kids have no "right of privacy", nor do they have "miranda rights"... republicans are going to be outraged??? this is the product of the republican in charge.... when was the last time you pulled your head out of your ass? this is what the republican party stands for.... the government brings in the coke and smack.... villify the kids that might burn a joint(3 weeks to pass a piss)... then make sure they can get crack everywhere(3 days to pass a piss).... that great republican hero ronny raygun started this shit... piss testing is the republican gift to this country... smoke angel dust? cool, have some cranberry juice, you pass... smoke crack? just do it 3 days before the test, cool, you pass... smack it up on the weekend, no prob, 4 days, you pass.... burn a doob? well, 3 weeks, to 3 months(depending on body fat, metabolism, and the test)ok, you pass.... it was ok with you when it kept someone from getting a job, or holding a drivers license, or got them sent back to jail for violating probation.... but poor little johnny might have his rights violated "we wont stand for it"...yeah,ok, sure.... |
ambiguity unlimited User ID: 538416 United States 10/30/2008 02:41 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Test the kids for drugs. Charge them with some violation. Offer them prison or the military. No draft needed. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 536841Fresh meat for the meatgrinder. . you're an idiot no, pal, you're the idiot... this is abou the first time ive agreed with rota, but he's fucking right... and you idiots are the ones that wanted this fuckup in power... i kinda hope your kid gets fucked by this, it might make you realize what shit your head has been full of..... |
Rota User ID: 538213 United States 10/30/2008 02:47 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Bluebird User ID: 270054 United States 10/30/2008 02:49 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | This has been done most places for the last fifteen or so years. Schools don't want the liability of doped up kids on campus. One of the most important aspects of conspiracy theories is being able to discern when there isn't one. Oh yeah, like you'd understand anyway. Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?. . .J. Handy |
Spectrum Blue User ID: 454394 United States 10/30/2008 02:50 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I say do with him as they used to do to all traitors; string them all up by the lamp posts. And even the preston bush is dead, string up his corpse too! They really do want this country to mirror Hitler's homeland. Dreams will begin as they fade into chaos. |
Rota User ID: 538213 United States 10/30/2008 02:51 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | This has been done most places for the last fifteen or so years. Schools don't want the liability of doped up kids on campus. Quoting: BluebirdThen why do they put 50 percent of the kids on manditory legal prescription drugs? . |
Rota User ID: 538213 United States 10/30/2008 03:07 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Prison or military? First of all possession in most cases is nothing more than a jailable offense and first time offenders rarely get incarcerated at all. To say that in cases of victimless crime that prison is a worthy punishment defies the basic laws of logic and reasoning. A casual user of weed or coke who poses no threat to himself or society in general should not receive a similar punishment to what a murderer or rapist should receive and I don't even think I would have to argue that if you were a totally sane individual which I don't think you are. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 536841Ah......check the laws. Schools are 100 percent drug free zones. They can pile any charges they want to within the school zones especially if they want warm bodies in the military. Even it that doesn't work they can always start a new war on drugs to "save the children" at school. Hype the gang problem and the drug dealing they do on school property. The average joe will cheer this crime fighting effort. Second, military is off limits too and once again, if you were a totally stable or even an educated individual, regardless of stability, I would not have to argue that. But suffice it to say this would be in direct violation of the involuntary servitude clause of the 13th Amendment which I doubt if you've ever heard of. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 536841Whoops! Better check that one. Since the war in Afghanistan and iraq judges have been offering prison or the military. Seems they cannot get enough dummies to volunteer anymore. Not sure why. maybe it has something to do with DU poisoning, Mercury laced experimental shots. Getting blown up by hidden road bombs, torturing innocent people and having to guard poppy fields. . |
Spectrum Blue User ID: 454394 United States 10/30/2008 03:08 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | no, pal, you're the idiot... this is abou the first time ive agreed with rota, but he's fucking right... and you idiots are the ones that wanted this fuckup in power... i kinda hope your kid gets fucked by this, it might make you realize what shit your head has been full of..... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 536841First of all I'm 20 years old . . . . . . . . . .Oh but then again the Constitution doesn't mean shit to the idiots in America today. I am thinking he means that to have kids searched and tested for drugs without due cause is a violation of our liberties (whatever are left). I know many people don't understand what is happening, and would rather have the government babysit their kids for them, but many of us do know what we'd be giving up if we were to give in to this horrible misuse of power. I think people do forget alot about our constitution and the prodigious meaning behind each word. Dreams will begin as they fade into chaos. |
Luke@MyNik User ID: 508146 United States 10/30/2008 03:12 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
ambiguity unlimited User ID: 538416 United States 10/30/2008 03:26 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | no, pal, you're the idiot... this is abou the first time ive agreed with rota, but he's fucking right... and you idiots are the ones that wanted this fuckup in power... i kinda hope your kid gets fucked by this, it might make you realize what shit your head has been full of..... Quoting: Spectrum BlueFirst of all I'm 20 years old . . . . . . . . . .Oh but then again the Constitution doesn't mean shit to the idiots in America today. I am thinking he means that to have kids searched and tested for drugs without due cause is a violation of our liberties (whatever are left). I know many people don't understand what is happening, and would rather have the government babysit their kids for them, but many of us do know what we'd be giving up if we were to give in to this horrible misuse of power. I think people do forget alot about our constitution and the prodigious meaning behind each word. due process doesnt count for juvi offenders.... kids have virtually none of those constitutional rights... kids dont have to be mirandized on arrest... in school, even more rights are suspended.... juvi law is designed to get kids in the revolving door of recidivism... no one cared when it was the ghetto kids being stung by this shit, but now it comes to buddy and sis, and they get worried.... welcome to fucking america, those of us that grew up on the "wrong side of the tracks" have seen this shit forever..... |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 536841 United States 10/30/2008 03:39 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | 20, you have alot to learn....let me tell you a little story about how it works.... last time we were at war, if you got passed up on the draft lottery, and got in trouble with the law, the judge would offer you a choice... do the time, or sign up.... if you sign up, pass boot, and be a good boy, your conviction is voided.... casual users get an average of 2 years probation here in florida, as well as having to take classes, join na, and a million other very expensive hoops they have to jump through... it's designed so very few actually complete the probation, without getting a violation Quoting: ambiguity unlimitedThis all may be true. That does not provide any insight into the constitutionality of the "prison or military" program though. I think in a court of law, the unequivocal conclusion that a judge would come to is it is a direct violation of the 13th Amendment. I see an argument for both sides but if you look at the actual language of the provision it is very specific. "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." And if it is the punishment for crime that is one thing. But when you look at it in context you see that involuntary servitude is a person, for instance placed in the military against their will "under some form of coercion," according to Wikipedia. So I think based on that alone it should be unconstitutional but of course the liberals will find all kinds of arguments around it. And back to what we were discussing earlier as far as mandatory drug testing goes... I would imagine the burden would still rest on law enforcement's shoulders to find probable cause to even take a piss sample. I don't see any reason why unlawful search and seizure should apply only to homes and cars when the authorities are violating basic constitutional rights to find whatever reason to place you under arrest. It makes no sense. I have used drugs. I would not want the government coming in and forcing me to take a drug test. It is not right. I don't see why we're even arguing it other than some idiot making the statement that prison is a legitimate punishment for a casual drug offense. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 536841 United States 10/30/2008 03:41 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | due process doesnt count for juvi offenders.... kids have virtually none of those constitutional rights... kids dont have to be mirandized on arrest... in school, even more rights are suspended.... juvi law is designed to get kids in the revolving door of recidivism... no one cared when it was the ghetto kids being stung by this shit, but now it comes to buddy and sis, and they get worried.... welcome to fucking america, those of us that grew up on the "wrong side of the tracks" have seen this shit forever..... Quoting: ambiguity unlimitedYou bring up a very good point: Who does the Constitution pertain to? |
Spectrum Blue User ID: 454394 United States 10/30/2008 03:53 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | no, pal, you're the idiot... this is abou the first time ive agreed with rota, but he's fucking right... and you idiots are the ones that wanted this fuckup in power... i kinda hope your kid gets fucked by this, it might make you realize what shit your head has been full of..... Quoting: ambiguity unlimitedFirst of all I'm 20 years old . . . . . . . . . .Oh but then again the Constitution doesn't mean shit to the idiots in America today. I am thinking he means that to have kids searched and tested for drugs without due cause is a violation of our liberties (whatever are left). I know many people don't understand what is happening, and would rather have the government babysit their kids for them, but many of us do know what we'd be giving up if we were to give in to this horrible misuse of power. I think people do forget alot about our constitution and the prodigious meaning behind each word. due process doesnt count for juvi offenders.... kids have virtually none of those constitutional rights... kids dont have to be mirandized on arrest... in school, even more rights are suspended.... juvi law is designed to get kids in the revolving door of recidivism... no one cared when it was the ghetto kids being stung by this shit, but now it comes to buddy and sis, and they get worried.... welcome to fucking america, those of us that grew up on the "wrong side of the tracks" have seen this shit forever..... I know. I can't rely completely on my memory these days, but I do remember this happening. It's even been in old movies and new ones. Even various tv shows. Dreams will begin as they fade into chaos. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 536841 United States 10/30/2008 03:55 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I know. I can't rely completely on my memory these days, but I do remember this happening. It's even been in old movies and new ones. Even various tv shows. Quoting: Spectrum BlueAnyone with a basic knowledge or understanding of the Constitution can see the questionable nature of this mandatory drug testing program. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 521654 United States 10/30/2008 04:04 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
ambiguity unlimited User ID: 538416 United States 10/30/2008 04:09 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | 20, you have alot to learn....let me tell you a little story about how it works.... last time we were at war, if you got passed up on the draft lottery, and got in trouble with the law, the judge would offer you a choice... do the time, or sign up.... if you sign up, pass boot, and be a good boy, your conviction is voided.... casual users get an average of 2 years probation here in florida, as well as having to take classes, join na, and a million other very expensive hoops they have to jump through... it's designed so very few actually complete the probation, without getting a violation Quoting: Anonymous Coward 536841This all may be true. That does not provide any insight into the constitutionality of the "prison or military" program though. I think in a court of law, the unequivocal conclusion that a judge would come to is it is a direct violation of the 13th Amendment. I see an argument for both sides but if you look at the actual language of the provision it is very specific. "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." And if it is the punishment for crime that is one thing. But when you look at it in context you see that involuntary servitude is a person, for instance placed in the military against their will "under some form of coercion," according to Wikipedia. So I think based on that alone it should be unconstitutional but of course the liberals will find all kinds of arguments around it. And back to what we were discussing earlier as far as mandatory drug testing goes... I would imagine the burden would still rest on law enforcement's shoulders to find probable cause to even take a piss sample. I don't see any reason why unlawful search and seizure should apply only to homes and cars when the authorities are violating basic constitutional rights to find whatever reason to place you under arrest. It makes no sense. I have used drugs. I would not want the government coming in and forcing me to take a drug test. It is not right. I don't see why we're even arguing it other than some idiot making the statement that prison is a legitimate punishment for a casual drug offense. parents sign contracts allowing it... and there you go"the liberals".... you are an idiot....the involuntary servitude clause doesnt apply... the kid doesnt get sentenced to the army, its free will... it's an out they're offered, to avoid jail, and a conviction record... little johnny can go to the county lockup, and spend a month learning pinoccle from the area gangbangers, or he can raise his right hand, and swear into uncles fishing and hunting club.... why do you think the "liberals" are behind this shit? w is as republican as they come, he's their poster boy.... the congress that ok'd these wars? republican majority... the drug laws that fuck everybody in this drama are a product of the reagan era... the conservative fucking hero.... the war on drugs... ronny and george sr.... this all falls right in the laps of you good american republicans... still looking for a liberal to blame it on? cool give a few months, you'll be able to blame obama, because he'll do the same shit... they all do... that liberal and conservative rap is for the fucking sheep.... all the big boys are on the same team... the people foot the bull, spill the blood, and do the time... the leaders, they run the scam, collect the profits, and get a pension for doing 4 years in office...but, be sure and tell them about the 13th ammendment when they reinstate the draft, and you get called up, im sure the draft board could use a laugh.... |
ambiguity unlimited User ID: 538416 United States 10/30/2008 04:11 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 425066 United States 10/30/2008 04:15 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Spectrum Blue User ID: 454394 United States 10/30/2008 04:19 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | There is no such word as alot. I repeat there is no such word as alot. It is two words a lot. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 521654Take a bottle of valium with 5 mudslides. That should chill you right out and help you understand that no one cares about spelling when they're typing on a lunitic fringe forum. Nighty night! :evilneko: :NekoKissy: Dreams will begin as they fade into chaos. |
ambiguity unlimited User ID: 538416 United States 10/30/2008 04:22 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | There is no such word as alot. I repeat there is no such word as alot. It is two words a lot. Quoting: Spectrum BlueTake a bottle of valium with 5 mudslides. That should chill you right out and help you understand that no one cares about spelling when they're typing on a lunitic fringe forum. Nighty night! :evilneko: :NekoKissy: cute kittens... i prefer my response though... short and contemptuous... rofl |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 536841 United States 10/30/2008 04:31 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | be sure and tell them about the 13th ammendment when they reinstate the draft, and you get called up, im sure the draft board could use a laugh.... Quoting: ambiguity unlimitedI nominate this as one of the greatest GLP quotes of all time? I mean, right, who am I kidding? The Constitution doesn't mean shit in today's society so what am I tripping on? The draft? No I'll just go to Amsterdam. Then I won't even have to deal with the draft. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 536841 United States 10/30/2008 04:38 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | parents sign contracts allowing it... and there you go"the liberals".... you are an idiot....why do you think the "liberals" are behind this shit? w is as republican as they come, he's their poster boy.... the congress that ok'd these wars? republican majority... the drug laws that fuck everybody in this drama are a product of the reagan era... the conservative fucking hero.... the war on drugs... ronny and george sr.... this all falls right in the laps of you good american republicans... still looking for a liberal to blame it on? cool give a few months, you'll be able to blame obama, because he'll do the same shit... they all do... that liberal and conservative rap is for the fucking sheep.... all the big boys are on the same team... the people foot the bull, spill the blood, and do the time... the leaders, they run the scam, collect the profits, and get a pension for doing 4 years in office... Quoting: ambiguity unlimitedWhy do I think the liberals are behind this? You must understand my definition of terms, that will make all things clear. As a conservative I am pro-legalization of marijuana. I am for decriminalizing coke, but not heroin, crack or ice as they are just far to dangerous. Now I explain this by saying that as a conservative I am for small government. This would not include an overbearing government outlawing harmless drugs like marijuana. I think this will help you out a lot. See I am a conservative. Greatly conservative. So when I say liberals I refer to just about everyone in the country, because they are all more liberal than I am. But it's semantics really. I just don't see how a true conservative can support big government when it comes to drugs. Either you're big or small government. There is no other way around it. |