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PLEASE WATCH THESE BEFORE VOTING!!! The true issue in this election: Individualism vs Collectivism

 
Hiram Abiff
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11/04/2008 08:21 AM

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PLEASE WATCH THESE BEFORE VOTING!!! The true issue in this election: Individualism vs Collectivism
I would ask everyone to take alittle time out of you day today to watch these short videos addressing the major philosophical issues at the heart of both political parties. Once you watch these, you can make a truely informed choice in this election.

Part 1.The Philosophy of Liberty an Intro to Individualism vs Collectivism:
[link to www.youtube.com]

Part 2 The Nature and Origin of Human Rights
[link to www.youtube.com]

Part 3: Group Supremacy
[link to www.youtube.com]

Part 4: Coercion vs Freedom
[link to www.youtube.com]

Part 5: Equality and Inequality under Law
[link to www.youtube.com]

Part 6: Proper role of Government
[link to www.youtube.com]
Hiram Abiff (OP)

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11/04/2008 08:25 AM

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Re: PLEASE WATCH THESE BEFORE VOTING!!! The true issue in this election: Individualism vs Collectivism
Read the quotes below, and descide for yourself who our patriot brothers and the Founding Fathers would vote for. Whose principles they would seem to uphold?


I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I traveled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.
Benjamin Franklin, On the Price of Corn and Management of the Poor, November 1766



Repeal that [welfare] law, and you will soon see a change in their manners. St. Monday and St. Tuesday, will soon cease to be holidays. Six days shalt thou labor, though one of the old commandments long treated as out of date, will again be looked upon as a respectable precept; industry will increase, and with it plenty among the lower people; their circumstances will mend, and more will be done for their happiness by inuring them to provide for themselves, than could be done by dividing all your estates among them.
Benjamin Franklin, letter to Collinson, May 9, 1753


The apportionment of taxes on the various descriptions of property is an act which seems to require the most exact impartiality; yet there is, perhaps, no legislative act in which greater opportunity and temptation are given to a predominant party to trample on the rules of justice. Every shilling which they overburden the inferior number is a shilling saved to their own pockets.
James Madison, Federalist No. 10, November 23, 1787



There is no part of the administration of government that requires extensive information and a thorough knowledge of the principles of political economy, so much as the business of taxation. The man who understands those principles best will be least likely to resort to oppressive expedients, or sacrifice any particular class of citizens to the procurement of revenue. It might be demonstrated that the most productive system of finance will always be the least burdensome.
Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 35, 1788



I think we have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious.
Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Ludlow, September 6, 1824



To cherish and stimulate the activity of the human mind, by multiplying the objects of enterprise, is not among the least considerable of the expedients, by which the wealth of a nation may be promoted.
Alexander Hamilton, Report on Manufactures, December 1791


Government is instituted to protect property of every sort; as well that which lies in the various rights of individuals, as that which the term particularly expresses. This being the end of government, that alone is a just government which impartially secures to every man whatever is his own.
James Madison, Essay on Property, March 29, 1792


History affords us many instances of the ruin of states, by the prosecution of measures ill suited to the temper and genius of their people. The ordaining of laws in favor of one part of the nation, to the prejudice and oppression of another, is certainly the most erroneous and mistaken policy. An equal dispensation of protection, rights, privileges, and advantages, is what every part is entitled to, and ought to enjoy... These measures never fail to create great and violent jealousies and animosities between the people favored and the people oppressed; whence a total separation of affections, interests, political obligations, and all manner of connections, by which the whole state is weakened.
Benjamin Franklin, Emblematical Representations, Circa 1774



I own myself the friend to a very free system of commerce, and hold it as a truth, that commercial shackles are generally unjust, oppressive and impolitic — it is also a truth, that if industry and labour are left to take their own course, they will generally be directed to those objects which are the most productive, and this in a more certain and direct manner than the wisdom of the most enlightened legislature could point out.
James Madison, speech to the Congress, April 9, 1789


If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people, under the pretence of taking care of them, they must become happy.
Thomas Jefferson, letter to Thomas Cooper, Nov 29, 1802


[T]he government of the United States is a definite government, confined to specified objects. It is not like the state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government.
James Madison, speech in the House of Representatives, January 10, 1794



A just security to property is not afforded by that government, under which unequal taxes oppress one species of property and reward another species.
James Madison, Essay on Property, March 29, 1792

If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the General Welfare, the Government is no longer a limited one, possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one, subject to particular exceptions.
James Madison, letter to Edmund Pendleton, January 21, 1792



The prosperity of commerce is now perceived and acknowledged by all enlightened statesmen to be the most useful as well as the most productive source of national wealth, and has accordingly become a primary object of its political cares.
Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 12, November 27, 1787



A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicity. Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address.



For example. If the system be established on basis of Income, and his just proportion on that scale has been already drawn from every one, to step into the field of Consumption, and tax special articles in that, as broadcloth or homespun, wine or whiskey, a coach or a wagon, is doubly taxing the same article. For that portion of Income with which these articles are purchased, having already paid its tax as Income, to pay another tax on the thing it purchased, is paying twice for the same thing; it is an aggrievance on the citizens who use these articles in exoneration of those who do not, contrary to the most sacred of the duties of a government, to do equal and impartial justice to all its citizens.
Thomas Jefferson, letter to Joseph Milligan, April 6, 1816


There is no maxim in my opinion which is more liable to be misapplied, and which therefore needs elucidation than the current one that the interest of the majority is the political standard of right and wrong.... In fact it is only reestablishing under another name and a more specious form, force as the measure of right....
James Madison, letter to James Monroe, October 5, 1786



No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms [within his own lands].
Thomas Jefferson, Draft Constitution for the State of Virginia, June, 1776



"Property is the fruit of labor-property is desirable - it is a positive good in the world. That some should be rich, shows that others may become rich, and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise. Let not who is houseless pull down the house of another; but let him labor diligently and build one for himself, thus by example assuring that his own shall be safe from violence..."
— Abraham Lincoln (reply to the New York Workingmen’s Democratic Republican Association, Mar. 21, 1864)




" Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our own will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law,' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual"
— Thomas Jefferson (Letter to Isaac H. Tiffany - 1819)
Hiram Abiff (OP)

User ID: 542475
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11/04/2008 12:32 PM

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Re: PLEASE WATCH THESE BEFORE VOTING!!! The true issue in this election: Individualism vs Collectivism
Some have already called the election for Obama! Now thats just foolhardy.

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