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ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 551607
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11/17/2008 11:17 AM
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ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
O.K. People.

I will VERY EASILY disprove the Pre-trib "rapture" theory:

Read the famous "rapture" verses in

I Thess 4:16-17

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Most people stop right here but if you continue reading their is a clue to the timing of this event.

I Thess 5:1-2

1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

I think we can all agree that here, he is still addressing the "rapture" subject in the above verses.

2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Again, he's still in context with the famous "rapture" verses. Look at how he refers to this event by:

THE DAY OF THE LORD!!!!

Now you may be thinking so what? what does that tell us?

Well, lets look at what the bible tells us about the day of the Lord:

Joel 2:31

31The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the LORD come.

Joel 3:14-15

14Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
15The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.

Isaiah 13:9-10

9Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

10For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

Do you see the correlation between all these verses? That's right, they all describe the same celestial events:

Sun & moon darkened, stars shall not give their light

So what does this have to do with the timing of the "rapture"

Well, lets go to Matt 24:29

Here the disciples have asked Christ what will precede his second coming. Listen to what he tells them!

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

CHRIST, BY DESCRIBING THE SAME CELESTIAL ANAMOLIES, HAS JUST SET A TIMELINE FOR THE DAY OF THE LORD (RAPTURE) AS HAPPENING AFTER THE GREAT TRIBULATION!!!

Look what he goes on to tell his disciples:


30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Do you see that this description lines up perfectly with the famous "rapture" passage of I Thess 4?

Look at the similarities:

I Thess 4:16-17
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout
Matt 24:30-31
They shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven

I Thess 4:16-17
with the voice of the archangel

Matt 24:30-31
And he shall send his angels

I Thess 4:16-17
and with the trump of God

Matt 24:30-31
with a great sound of a trumpet

I Thess 4:16-17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up

Matt 24:30-31
and they shall gather together his elect

We have come full circle. All of this is CONCRETE evidence for a post tribulation "rapture" and cannot be denied.

THE CHURCH WILL GO THROUGH THE GREAT TRIBULATION WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT!!

CHURCH, IT'S TIME TO AMP YOURSELF UP SPIRITUAL AND LEAVE THIS WORLD BEHIND. WE HAVE MANY TRIBULATIONS AHEAD OF US TO ENDURE. ONLY THE TRUE WALK THE WALK BELIEVERS WILL BE WORTHY OF GLORY. STOP DECEIVING YOURSELVES AND COME BACK TO THE TRUTH!!!


God Bless.
Nucking Futs
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11/17/2008 11:28 AM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
The serious problem about a situation like this is that people get their ego wrapped up in their belief.

People that have believed the false rapture stories, will be very resistant and closed-minded to the truth that there is no pre-Tribulation rapture.

The reason is that to finally understand the scriptures and acknowledge that there is no pre-Tribulation rapture, would mean to admit that they have been wrong all these years and all of their pre-tribulation rapture arguments have been horribly wrong.

The ego will not allow people to do this.

There is no Biblical support for any pre-Tribulation rapture. All of the scriptures that "Pre-Tribbers" use to prove the rapture myth are taken way out of context and their clear Biblical meaning altered.

However, people would rather ignorantly defend a lie than to admit their tragic mistake.

The ego is a powerful tool of the Devil.

Please people, set aside your ego and put God in the center and really look at the rapture myth and the "cherry-picked" verses used to support it.

The pre-Tribulation rapture is a lie to confuse Christians during the Tribulation.
LanMan
User ID: 402897
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11/17/2008 11:33 AM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
O.K. People.

I will VERY EASILY disprove the Pre-trib "rapture" theory:

Read the famous "rapture" verses in

I Thess 4:16-17

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Most people stop right here but if you continue reading their is a clue to the timing of this event.

I Thess 5:1-2

1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

I think we can all agree that here, he is still addressing the "rapture" subject in the above verses.

2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Again, he's still in context with the famous "rapture" verses. Look at how he refers to this event by:

THE DAY OF THE LORD!!!!

Now you may be thinking so what? what does that tell us?

Well, lets look at what the bible tells us about the day of the Lord:

Joel 2:31

31The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the LORD come.

Joel 3:14-15

14Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
15The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.

Isaiah 13:9-10

9Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

10For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

Do you see the correlation between all these verses? That's right, they all describe the same celestial events:

Sun & moon darkened, stars shall not give their light

So what does this have to do with the timing of the "rapture"

Well, lets go to Matt 24:29

Here the disciples have asked Christ what will precede his second coming. Listen to what he tells them!

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

CHRIST, BY DESCRIBING THE SAME CELESTIAL ANAMOLIES, HAS JUST SET A TIMELINE FOR THE DAY OF THE LORD (RAPTURE) AS HAPPENING AFTER THE GREAT TRIBULATION!!!

Look what he goes on to tell his disciples:


30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Do you see that this description lines up perfectly with the famous "rapture" passage of I Thess 4?

Look at the similarities:

I Thess 4:16-17
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout
Matt 24:30-31
They shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven

I Thess 4:16-17
with the voice of the archangel

Matt 24:30-31
And he shall send his angels

I Thess 4:16-17
and with the trump of God

Matt 24:30-31
with a great sound of a trumpet

I Thess 4:16-17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up

Matt 24:30-31
and they shall gather together his elect

We have come full circle. All of this is CONCRETE evidence for a post tribulation "rapture" and cannot be denied.

THE CHURCH WILL GO THROUGH THE GREAT TRIBULATION WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT!!

CHURCH, IT'S TIME TO AMP YOURSELF UP SPIRITUAL AND LEAVE THIS WORLD BEHIND. WE HAVE MANY TRIBULATIONS AHEAD OF US TO ENDURE. ONLY THE TRUE WALK THE WALK BELIEVERS WILL BE WORTHY OF GLORY. STOP DECEIVING YOURSELVES AND COME BACK TO THE TRUTH!!!


God Bless.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 551607


You are one of the few with whom I agree on this! I'll have more on this later.
rb
User ID: 553063
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11/17/2008 11:34 AM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
it doesn't matter when the rapture occurs

we still have the same task at hand getting the Gospel out

endless arguments are fruitless and diversionary

a pre-tribber can cite verses as well so can a mid-tribber prewrath etc etc

we frankly won't know til it happens

fruits of the Spirit love joy peace &c.

rb
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 426194
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11/17/2008 11:42 AM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
it doesn't matter when the rapture occurs

we still have the same task at hand getting the Gospel out

endless arguments are fruitless and diversionary

a pre-tribber can cite verses as well so can a mid-tribber prewrath etc etc

we frankly won't know til it happens

fruits of the Spirit love joy peace &c.

rb
 Quoting: rb 553063



Thanks for that. I agree. It doesn't matter.

Stay the course. Go with the last orders given.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 551607
United States
11/17/2008 11:43 AM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
it doesn't matter when the rapture occurs

we still have the same task at hand getting the Gospel out

endless arguments are fruitless and diversionary

a pre-tribber can cite verses as well so can a mid-tribber prewrath etc etc

we frankly won't know til it happens

fruits of the Spirit love joy peace &c.

rb
 Quoting: rb 553063


It doesn't matter for those who are spiritual prepared, but what about those who aren't? There are many "Christians" who live like the world and think they will be taken out in the rapture before anything bad happens. It's that group who are going to be off guard and will probably pledge allegiance to the beast because they weren't prepared. So it does matter about the truth of the timing. And frankly we do know when it will happen, because the bible tells us when it will occur.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 426194
United States
11/17/2008 11:48 AM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
it doesn't matter when the rapture occurs

we still have the same task at hand getting the Gospel out

endless arguments are fruitless and diversionary

a pre-tribber can cite verses as well so can a mid-tribber prewrath etc etc

we frankly won't know til it happens

fruits of the Spirit love joy peace &c.

rb


It doesn't matter for those who are spiritual prepared, but what about those who aren't? There are many "Christians" who live like the world and think they will be taken out in the rapture before anything bad happens. It's that group who are going to be off guard and will probably pledge allegiance to the beast because they weren't prepared. So it does matter about the truth of the timing. And frankly we do know when it will happen, because the bible tells us when it will occur.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 551607



There will be MANY deceived. That's why it's important to stay the course and go with the last orders given. If you do this - you have no worries. No sense getting all riled up. Jesus tells us not to worry about these things. We know what we are supposed to do.
19.47™
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11/17/2008 12:00 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
The rapture will happen when it happens. The truth is that none of us know. But you had better be prepaired because it could happen tomorrow. Here is a Chick tract on the subject...

[link to www.chick.com]
Me114

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11/17/2008 12:01 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
what u described can happen this week

dont forget the ten day trial to come upon the earth, FROM WHICH, the philadelphian church is saved

Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth

rev 3:10

so these are the ones to go

now there are also those of smyrna which become martyrs.. they apparently stay and go thru tribs

but the most major thing christians missed regarding this, is that the ones who go, CAN (are able to and have permission to) COME BACK

thats what u all missed

some of us WANT TO COME BACK and help you all out, and bring in that golden age through grassroots exploits - ie this will merge with the planetary populist movement, the american revolution part 2, the new age ascension golden age movement, etc etc, the kingdom of god is all of these according to the will of the CHILDREN

also includes the NEW HONEST order based on natural man faith (ie adam before the fall)

so... yes u straigthened it out, but notice this event can happen this week because:

the ones who go, must be KEPT FROM the 10 day trial

the 10 day trial is apparent on earth now, due to the credit freeze explosion *loud noise that is imminent

and of the ones who go, many will come back, its a free will choice

we will be able to heal you, forgive your sins (burn the carnal mind off of you) and also escort you back and forth to new jerusalem in the second heaven, so that you can know (still by faith) that heaven is now real and a physical place

each person has their own personal room in new jerusalem

you either go there when u die, or u walk there if u are one of the ones who is alive and remain and achieve that ability (its by faith)

this stuff i share is the truth
:ura:

Sweet Thoughts!
I Unknown Depths of Love, You.
What Happens Next Loves me.
Help me Jesus, Life will let me know.
Living is Effortless Normal
God Inside, Outside, Everywhere, Forever!
homepage [link to heartdaughter.com]
Nucking Futs
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11/17/2008 12:02 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
The rapture will happen when it happens. The truth is that none of us know. But you had better be prepaired because it could happen tomorrow. Here is a Chick tract on the subject...

[link to www.chick.com]
 Quoting: 19.47™ 534000

No, it could not happen tomorrow.
We have the whole Book of Revelation to see fulfilled first.

The Rapture comes with the return of God, on the last day of this world. We do not know the precise hour, but we do know of the many things that must come to pass first.
Darkman

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11/17/2008 12:06 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
I don't think anyone is "riled-up" but we are concerned that believers in a pre-trib rapture will be deceived. I believe that Satan will arrange a planetary escape for those that are looking to be raptured out of here. I have no idea what will happen to those deceived by a fake rapture. As Christians we need to discuss these things. Discussing them does not mean we are arguing, although I think this subject is worthy of an argument.
Whee! 8D.qc.ca

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11/17/2008 12:11 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
I don't think anyone is "riled-up" but we are concerned that believers in a pre-trib rapture will be deceived. I believe that Satan will arrange a planetary escape for those that are looking to be raptured out of here. I have no idea what will happen to those deceived by a fake rapture. As Christians we need to discuss these things. Discussing them does not mean we are arguing, although I think this subject is worthy of an argument.
 Quoting: Darkman

Agreed

Plus, if people are waiting for Jesus to come down from the sky well...

Project blue beam, even heard of that?

Plus, if TPTB DOES have the technology of antigrav for spaceships well...

I predict that many christians will be fooled.


[link to i38.tinypic.com]

//out->>
The world woud be a thousand times better place if more cults existed.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 673558
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 551607
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11/17/2008 12:16 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
The rapture will happen when it happens. The truth is that none of us know. But you had better be prepaired because it could happen tomorrow. Here is a Chick tract on the subject...

[link to www.chick.com]

No, it could not happen tomorrow.
We have the whole Book of Revelation to see fulfilled first.

The Rapture comes with the return of God, on the last day of this world. We do not know the precise hour, but we do know of the many things that must come to pass first.
 Quoting: Nucking Futs 455142


It's funny how you bash people over the head with undisputable evidence and they still spit out man-made doctrines! Actually it's not funny at all.

I CAN SAY WITH ALL CONFIDENCE THAT THE RAPTURE WILL NOT HAPPEN TODAY AND IT WILL NOT HAPPEN TOMORROW.

II Thess chapter 2 tells us that the antichrist must be revealed first before the second coming and our gathering to him can occur.

The antichrist will war against the saints for 3 1/2 years, then the sky will darken after his reign and Christ will return at some time around that point. PEOPLE READ YOUR BIBLES!!!
Anonymous Coward
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11/17/2008 12:19 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
Joel 3:14-15

14Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
15The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.

Isaiah 13:9-10

9Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

10For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.



Look at the similarities:

I Thess 4:16-17
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout
Matt 24:30-31
They shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven

I Thess 4:16-17
with the voice of the archangel

Matt 24:30-31
And he shall send his angels

I Thess 4:16-17
and with the trump of God

Matt 24:30-31
with a great sound of a trumpet

I Thess 4:16-17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up

Matt 24:30-31
and they shall gather together his elect

We have come full circle. All of this is CONCRETE evidence for a post tribulation "rapture" and cannot be denied.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 551607


Great research.


O-P you sure are one with reason within you, most are just so dumb they'll even dispute the writing on the wall.
19.47™
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11/17/2008 12:25 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
The rapture will happen when it happens. The truth is that none of us know. But you had better be prepaired because it could happen tomorrow. Here is a Chick tract on the subject...

[link to www.chick.com]
 Quoting: 19.47™ 534000


I W£ILL REPEAT - for the benifit of those who are hard of hearing.
Me114

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11/17/2008 12:28 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
The rapture will happen when it happens. The truth is that none of us know. But you had better be prepaired because it could happen tomorrow. Here is a Chick tract on the subject...

[link to www.chick.com]

No, it could not happen tomorrow.
We have the whole Book of Revelation to see fulfilled first.

The Rapture comes with the return of God, on the last day of this world. We do not know the precise hour, but we do know of the many things that must come to pass first.
 Quoting: Nucking Futs 455142


no no no no no

you are messing up

u are making man's traditions into god's truth

what if what man has thought god meant all this time, is simply wrong?

the thing to do is to get to know god well enough for Him to explain what he meant, IN TRUTH. then God prepares you, and then you know how it is supposed to go down

we are within hours now by the leading that ive been gettting, and the confirmation ive seen over the weekend from others

im looking at a 48 hour window NOW

that is TWO DAYS

so if u rely on your timeline:

....

No, it could not happen tomorrow.
We have the whole Book of Revelation to see fulfilled first.

The Rapture comes with the return of God, on the last day of this world. We do not know the precise hour, but we do know of the many things that must come to pass first.
 Quoting: Nucking Futs 455142


if u rely on this, and it turns out to be a tradition of what man thought, instead of the truth, then u will not be prepared... for example, if it happens today or tomorrow

hmmm...... shooot!

it should always tip us off when we say, God cant, until

god cant until

look at it... its liable to be wrong when u say that, huh?

man messed up, and made his passed down imaginations into a truth that is actually a lie - how can we stake our soul on a timeline dreamed up by men?
:ura:

Sweet Thoughts!
I Unknown Depths of Love, You.
What Happens Next Loves me.
Help me Jesus, Life will let me know.
Living is Effortless Normal
God Inside, Outside, Everywhere, Forever!
homepage [link to heartdaughter.com]
Anonymous Coward
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11/17/2008 12:36 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
Joel 3:14-15

14Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
15The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.

Isaiah 13:9-10

9Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

10For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.



Look at the similarities:

I Thess 4:16-17
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout
Matt 24:30-31
They shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven

I Thess 4:16-17
with the voice of the archangel

Matt 24:30-31
And he shall send his angels

I Thess 4:16-17
and with the trump of God

Matt 24:30-31
with a great sound of a trumpet

I Thess 4:16-17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up

Matt 24:30-31
and they shall gather together his elect

We have come full circle. All of this is CONCRETE evidence for a post tribulation "rapture" and cannot be denied.

=============================
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Great research.


O-P you sure are one with reason within you, most are just so dumb they'll even dispute the writing on the wall.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 553089


In admission: Book of Thessalonian was written in 50AD and many apostles were schooled by the Book of Enoch which was written centuries before the New Testament.


Book Of Enoch.


2Enoch.65:[6]There will be one aeon, and all the righteous who shall escape the LORD'S Great judgment, shall be collected in the Great aeon, for the righteous the Great aeon will begin, and they will live eternally, and then too there will be amongst them neither labour, nor sickness.

LORD'S Great judgment, shall be collected in the Great aeon,


The One who wrote the story is the AUTHOR of that story, you gotta believe in the GOD in which the rapture story was written in to be a part of that story. The jews copied from the book of Enoch that's why the rapture is mentioned in Joel, and thereafter in the New Testament.
Darkman

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11/17/2008 12:38 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
I don't understand what Me is saying. Are you saying that the word of God, the Bible, is wrong? That is our evidence.
Anonymous Coward
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11/17/2008 12:41 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
I don't think anyone is "riled-up" but we are concerned that believers in a pre-trib rapture will be deceived. I believe that Satan will arrange a planetary escape for those that are looking to be raptured out of here. I have no idea what will happen to those deceived by a fake rapture. As Christians we need to discuss these things. Discussing them does not mean we are arguing, although I think this subject is worthy of an argument.
 Quoting: Darkman



Ummm...not necessarily. I lean towards pre-trib. But I understand that I DON'T KNOW.

Rapture isn't voluntary - that's my belief. Gone - in an instant. I'll never put anyone's mark on my hand or head or bow to anyone other than Jesus Christ. I love the Lord and follow Him only for all time.

Discuss away. I'm with you, it's not worthy of an argument. That's what I'm saying. If you just do what we were told to do you'll be fine...that's my belief. Watch and wait. Don't be deceived by false prophets claiming to be the Messiah...Jesus has already come to save. The next time you see Him, He'll be coming in glory...not trying to convince people.

Doesn't matter to me whether he comes before the trib, during the trib, or after the trib. There is scripture to support all scenarios. I try to focus on those things that can be known in scripture and the instructions given.
Anonymous Coward
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11/17/2008 12:47 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
Rapture isn't voluntary - that's my belief. Gone - in an instant. I'll never put anyone's mark on my hand or head or bow to anyone other than Jesus Christ. I love the Lord and follow Him only for all time.

Discuss away. I'm with you, it's not worthy of an argument. That's what I'm saying. If you just do what we were told to do you'll be fine...that's my belief. Watch and wait. Don't be deceived by false prophets claiming to be the Messiah...Jesus has already come to save. The next time you see Him, He'll be coming in glory...not trying to convince people.

Doesn't matter to me whether he comes before the trib, during the trib, or after the trib. There is scripture to support all scenarios. I try to focus on those things that can be known in scripture and the instructions given.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 426194

I beg to differ with logic and reason for I am the image of the Creator.


The first time the LORD came down to save was during the days of Noah. The LORD chained up the Fallen angels of Genesis who fornicated with the earth women and brought forth the Nephilims and then sent the Flood saving Mankind (Noah).


The second time will be similar where people will escape like Noah did and the rest is just 'Writing on the Wall.'
Free Indeed

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11/17/2008 12:49 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
The wise man/woman: Understands that just when they think they know it all realizes they know next to nothing really.

The hasty man/woman: Closes the mind off to all further learning and understanding and leans upon their own.


There are many layers to Scripture. Even if you spend every day until you die reading and studying Scripture, you still will not have full understanding. Best to leave the mind open to what the Spirit would say. After all, he is the only true interpreter.
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Anonymous Coward
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11/17/2008 12:54 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
Read ALL of Matthew 24 for yourself and heed it well.

He gives the signs that will take place - many of them occurring now.

Discern for yourselves.

I see Him talk about the "saved"

I see Him talk about the "elect"

They may be one and the same. They may not - which would mean Pre-trib. The days will be shortened for the sake of the elect - this may mean a mid-trib rapture - or it may mean the regular prophesied timeline and a post-trib rapture.

At any rate - Matthew 24 is good - if you heed it well, you will be in good shape no matter what.

Also, look carefully at vs. 6 and take heart.

[link to www.biblegateway.com]
Anonymous Coward
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11/17/2008 12:54 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
There are many layers to Scripture. Even if you spend every day until you die reading and studying Scripture, you still will not have full understanding. Best to leave the mind open to what the Spirit would say. After all, he is the only true interpreter.
 Quoting: Free Indeed

Most people walking the earth claim to have done precisely what you are advocating. Look around sometimes. The world has become "Sodom & Gomorrah" on the account of leaving themselves opened to the spirit of the World, included in this world are muslims, christians, hindus, jews, etc,etc....
Anonymous Coward
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11/17/2008 12:55 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
.
. 1. The "great-tribulation" has been in process SINCE Yeshua's return to The Father. The "great" is GREAT-IN-LENGTH-OF-TIME.
.
. 2. There are TWO times that living believers are removed (Raptured). The first will come just before/at the opening of Seal 6. The second will be the one where the dead in Yeshua are raised ... along with those who survied the 3-1/2 years of the beast's reign. This will happen Yom Teruah ... when the dead in Yeshua are also raised.
Anonymous Coward
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11/17/2008 12:56 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
The wise man/woman: Understands that just when they think they know it all realizes they know next to nothing really.

The hasty man/woman: Closes the mind off to all further learning and understanding and leans upon their own.


There are many layers to Scripture. Even if you spend every day until you die reading and studying Scripture, you still will not have full understanding. Best to leave the mind open to what the Spirit would say. After all, he is the only true interpreter.
 Quoting: Free Indeed



right on.
Anonymous Coward
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11/17/2008 12:57 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
There are many layers to Scripture. Even if you spend every day until you die reading and studying Scripture, you still will not have full understanding. Best to leave the mind open to what the Spirit would say. After all, he is the only true interpreter.
Most people walking the earth claim to have done precisely what you are advocating. Look around sometimes. The world has become "Sodom & Gomorrah" on the account of leaving themselves opened to the spirit of the World, included in this world are muslims, christians, hindus, jews, etc,etc....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 553089



There's only ONE true Spirit.

The others are the deceivers of the kind that we hear about in Matthew 24.
Lost Fisherman

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11/17/2008 12:57 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
The rapture will happen when it happens. The truth is that none of us know. But you had better be prepaired because it could happen tomorrow. Here is a Chick tract on the subject...

[link to www.chick.com]


I W£ILL REPEAT - for the benifit of those who are hard of hearing.
 Quoting: 19.47™ 534000

It's not that we're hard of hearing, we're ignoring you and Chick, who is at best confused.
"Uhhhhhh......"
Barack Obama
Me114

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11/17/2008 12:58 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
I don't understand what Me is saying. Are you saying that the word of God, the Bible, is wrong? That is our evidence.
 Quoting: Darkman


i am not saying the bible is wrong, i believe in the bible as the word of god

ask me what u dont understand about my postion pls
:ura:

Sweet Thoughts!
I Unknown Depths of Love, You.
What Happens Next Loves me.
Help me Jesus, Life will let me know.
Living is Effortless Normal
God Inside, Outside, Everywhere, Forever!
homepage [link to heartdaughter.com]
Anonymous Coward
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11/17/2008 12:58 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
There are many layers to Scripture. Even if you spend every day until you die reading and studying Scripture, you still will not have full understanding. Best to leave the mind open to what the Spirit would say. After all, he is the only true interpreter.
Most people walking the earth claim to have done precisely what you are advocating. Look around sometimes. The world has become "Sodom & Gomorrah" on the account of leaving themselves opened to the spirit of the World, included in this world are muslims, christians, hindus, jews, etc,etc....



There's only ONE true Spirit.

The others are the deceivers of the kind that we hear about in Matthew 24.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 426194



ah yea, and that Spirit lives within the true believer.
Anonymous Coward
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11/17/2008 01:04 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
Most people walking the earth claim to have done precisely what you are advocating. Look around sometimes. The world has become "Sodom & Gomorrah" on the account of leaving themselves opened to the spirit of the World, included in this world are muslims, christians, hindus, jews, etc,etc....

+++++++++++++++++++++++

There's only ONE true Spirit.

The others are the deceivers of the kind that we hear about in Matthew 24.

+++++++++++++++++++++++

ah yea, and that Spirit lives within the true believer.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 426194


A christian or Jew cannot be a true believer because all their spiritual fundamentals come from the Book Of Enoch. This includes islam because its a copied extension of judaism and christianity which are copied forgeries of the Book Of Enoch.



This is final.

The One who writes the story first is the AUTHOR of that story.
Free Indeed

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11/17/2008 01:08 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
There's only ONE true Spirit.

The others are the deceivers of the kind that we hear about in Matthew 24.



ah yea, and that Spirit lives within the true believer.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 426194


Agreed on both points.
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