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ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!

 
Michelle

User ID: 483767
United States
11/22/2008 12:10 PM
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now michelle -- I wish you and Wingedlion would write a book! I'd be happy to add it to my ever-increasing eschatological library!

 Quoting: rb 556483


Ah thanks. Well, you know, I would if God wanted me to, but I'm still waiting on God to lead me what He wants me to do. Praying about a possible move back to Dallas from NYC in a few months. I've got a lot on my plate right now. A guy asked me to marry him a few weeks ago. God told me, no, don't do it. So here I am waiting, waiting, and more waiting. Honestly, that's the hardest thing for me, the waiting. I'm an action person, a planner, and boy do I love to keep in motion, going and going. But I'm waiting on Him at this point in my life, because I've seen what a disaster my own plans have come to in the past. LOL! Quite the disaster. I had to learn the hard way...
Genesis 3:15: "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." The Nephilim "seed" are TPTB.

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Wingedlion/Whiterider​
User ID: 555261
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11/22/2008 12:17 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
now michelle -- I wish you and Wingedlion would write a book! I'd be happy to add it to my ever-increasing eschatological library!



Ah thanks. Well, you know, I would if God wanted me to, but I'm still waiting on God to lead me what He wants me to do. Praying about a possible move back to Dallas from NYC in a few months. I've got a lot on my plate right now. A guy asked me to marry him a few weeks ago. God told me, no, don't do it. So here I am waiting, waiting, and more waiting. Honestly, that's the hardest thing for me, the waiting. I'm an action person, a planner, and boy do I love to keep in motion, going and going. But I'm waiting on Him at this point in my life, because I've seen what a disaster my own plans have come to in the past. LOL! Quite the disaster. I had to learn the hard way...
 Quoting: Michelle



Michelle, you certainly deserve the Lord's best for your life, please don't settle for second best just because of lonliness. God's best always comes after the fire of "waiting on the Lord". All of the Bible greats had to learn it; no doubt, since the Lord has great things in store for you, that you will have to wait as well. I have a strong feeling that it is going to be well worth the wait.
Michelle

User ID: 483767
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11/22/2008 12:48 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
now michelle -- I wish you and Wingedlion would write a book! I'd be happy to add it to my ever-increasing eschatological library!



Ah thanks. Well, you know, I would if God wanted me to, but I'm still waiting on God to lead me what He wants me to do. Praying about a possible move back to Dallas from NYC in a few months. I've got a lot on my plate right now. A guy asked me to marry him a few weeks ago. God told me, no, don't do it. So here I am waiting, waiting, and more waiting. Honestly, that's the hardest thing for me, the waiting. I'm an action person, a planner, and boy do I love to keep in motion, going and going. But I'm waiting on Him at this point in my life, because I've seen what a disaster my own plans have come to in the past. LOL! Quite the disaster. I had to learn the hard way...



Michelle, you certainly deserve the Lord's best for your life, please don't settle for second best just because of lonliness. God's best always comes after the fire of "waiting on the Lord". All of the Bible greats had to learn it; no doubt, since the Lord has great things in store for you, that you will have to wait as well. I have a strong feeling that it is going to be well worth the wait.
 Quoting: Wingedlion/Whiterider 555261


Thanks, WL. I am going to do it, I am going to wait, even though the biological clock is a tickin' and I'm sick of being alone! Thanks for your prayers. hf
Genesis 3:15: "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." The Nephilim "seed" are TPTB.

yelk3@live.com
rb
User ID: 556781
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11/22/2008 01:40 PM
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michelle you are never alone you have us and Jesus!
I am praying for you

I'm married which explains why I still hope pretrib! LOL help me Jesus come deliver me! LOL just kidding LOL

Wingedlion good to see you again please write a book and after michelle gets settled down she can edit it LOL

the last one I got was David Jeremiah's new one and unfortunately not much in the way of new insight sigh!

love peace joy and fellowship of the Spirit

rb
Michelle

User ID: 483767
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11/22/2008 02:49 PM
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michelle you are never alone you have us and Jesus!
I am praying for you

I'm married which explains why I still hope pretrib! LOL help me Jesus come deliver me! LOL just kidding LOL

 Quoting: rb 556781


Thanks, RB. You're so right. And thank you so much for your prayers.

Yeah, my brother, who's married with 3 kids, says the same thing about pretrib! He told me, I don't care what happens to me, but if my children were to suffer, it would break my heart. Ugh, that'd be the worst to see a loved one suffer...
Genesis 3:15: "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." The Nephilim "seed" are TPTB.

yelk3@live.com
Wil
User ID: 545136
Canada
11/22/2008 04:04 PM
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I've read interpretations where the harpazo happens way toward the end and the bowls happen rapid-fire and Jesus physically returns on the Day of the Lord -- I don't remember a week or 10 days later?

love joy and peace

rb
 Quoting: rb 556356


My understanding of the Prophecy is the gathering of the saints (Harpazo/Rapture) happens after the Great Trib on the Feast of Trumpets. It is called the Day of the Lord because Jesus will come and meet the elect/saints in the clouds... just like the groom coming for his bride.

This is the day of the resurrection of the saints (the 12 Apostles, the Prophets, King David, and all the true believers who died in Christ throughout history). Those elect who are still alive at that moment will be transformed in an instant into eternal glorified bodies, in the "twinkling of an eye" and rise up to meet Jesus in the sky.

Ten days later on the Day of Atonement Jesus Christ will come down with the saints to destroy the 200M military men of the Beast in Armageddon... then establish God's Kingdom on earth. The raptured saints will rule the earth as kings and priests in the Millenium. This is the purpose of the Rapture... not to save the elect from the Great Trib as believed by the Pre-tribbers.

The 10 days between the Feast of Trumpets and Atonement is the time when the 7 vials (or bowls) of God's wrath will pour down on earth in rapid succession... destroying 1 in 2 or half of the World's population (Matt.24:38-41). Just like in the days of Noah... Immediately after God's people are taken out, comes the judgment.
VAN HELSING
User ID: 394628
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11/22/2008 04:49 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
Well OP- just dropped by to leave a note of thanks. I have always thought that among mongrel eschatological theories,post-tribulationism is the worstby far.You have to do more damage to ecclesiology.soteriology,pneumatology and every other ology including eschatology,to try to make this leaden monstrosity fly. AND it takes a different kind of person because unlike pre-wrath,mid-trib and other erroneous doctrines; post-trib crosses over from heterodox error into heresy and does actual damage to the faith. Usually other character infirmities accompany the crossing of THAT river. In that respect,you didn;t let me down. No sir. You are the perfect poster boy for this false teaching. Arrogant. Insulting. Cavalier with the way you mistreat the scriptures etc. Manifesting perfect indifference to research,scholarship or even what the Word says; you take the prize biscuit.


And lest I appear as negative, I want to THANK you. Thank you for perfectly representing your school of thought,in charaacter and in make-believe scholarship and interpretation. You did great damage to your cause and great good for anyone wondering whether there is any truth to the post-trib position, by CLEARLY demonstrating in your posts that not only is there no truth in it; the attempt to
argue for this position requires contortionist abilities exceeding that of a high flying Cirque De Soleil acrobat. The circus analogy is quite apt.


I will forever remember your exegesis of "let" in 2 Thessalonians and will use that from now on as an example of just how ludicrous the post-trib position can render one. That was a real thigh slapper. If we weren't engaging in handling and interpreting the sacred Word; you'd be a real howl. But this is a serious thing: to interpret the Bible and there is really nothing funny about the casual way you made up things as you went along and pretended to know what you were talking about. As in this pathetic use of "let" in a preposterous, false way to try to make the words of Paul of Tarsus say things he never intended about the timing of the rapture.This is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Not a laughing matter.



The truth of the pre-tribulation rapture remains the view of the majority of evangelicals and pentecostals in this country because it is the capstoone of the edifice of Bible Prophecy and god will never allow it to be otherwise; despite every attempt at reconstruction by clownish would-be Bible teachers like yourself. The Lord is soon to come. We all will have our reward for our labors in His vineyard.And reward will be given to all who labored against his Word and His people. I shudder to think what yours will be OP when some of your less-than-brilliant rewriting of the Bible is unveiled.


You said you were raised in a family that were died-in-the-wool pre--tribulationists. What the hell happened to you ?Who bewitched you that you have become a poster boy for the worst distortion of Bible prophecy in or outside of Christianity ? You get hooked up with some cessationist Baptists ? Some hyper-Zionistic and politicized,militaristic church where judaizing errors and heresies abound ? What ? The exodus FROM post-trib to pre-trib is a well worn path. The path going in the opposite direction is usually overgrown because grace of the Holy Spirit leads from error to truth. Something much darker leads in the opposite direction. I pray for your sake that you awaken to what has happened to you and go back to your familial origins rooted in the pre-tribulation view. This judaizing,hyper legalistic doctrine you have gotten hard wired into will erode your whole walk with God. This thread is proof that it has already eroded even a pretense of respect for careful scriptural scholarship and analysis. Now you simply use the Bible to prop up the short leg on the table of Biblical Truth God sets before us; that short leg being the Post-Trib Cult. You are so enamoured of this heresy you don't even care when your make-believe interpretations are exposed for what they are. At this point you seem as hard-wired into post-tribulationist doctrine as thoroughly as the borg are into their colony. Hope not. The Lord will be the judge of these things ultimately.



You are a great example to any young Christian or new Christian of where NOT to go. Don't go into the valley of Post-Tribulationism. It is a cult of legalistic,distortive doctrine that is a regression to Old Testament ways. Ways that are alien to the church of Christ Jesus. And don't let false teachers like this OP here STEAL your expectancy of the nearness of the rapture with his post-tribulational lies and conceits that misrepresent Bible Prophecy. The promise of the pre-tribulation rapture illumines the entire subject of Bible Prophecy and allows one to see a very clear picture and chronology of what is coming. The OP's confused,convoluted posts represent what happens when we presume to REWRITE the Bible. God will give us over to
a spirit of confusion. He is the demonic mascot of the whole team of post-tribulationists.


If you DO ever have deliverance session OP,I think Spirit of Confusion will be first up on the chopping block. That's what I think.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 556896
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11/22/2008 04:55 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
www.overcomerministry.org listen live now
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 551607
United States
11/22/2008 05:33 PM
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Well OP- just dropped by to leave a note of thanks. I have always thought that among mongrel eschatological theories,post-tribulationism is the worstby far.You have to do more damage to ecclesiology.soteriology,pneumatology and every other ology including eschatology,to try to make this leaden monstrosity fly. AND it takes a different kind of person because unlike pre-wrath,mid-trib and other erroneous doctrines; post-trib crosses over from heterodox error into heresy and does actual damage to the faith. Usually other character infirmities accompany the crossing of THAT river. In that respect,you didn;t let me down. No sir. You are the perfect poster boy for this false teaching. Arrogant. Insulting. Cavalier with the way you mistreat the scriptures etc. Manifesting perfect indifference to research,scholarship or even what the Word says; you take the prize biscuit.


And lest I appear as negative, I want to THANK you. Thank you for perfectly representing your school of thought,in charaacter and in make-believe scholarship and interpretation. You did great damage to your cause and great good for anyone wondering whether there is any truth to the post-trib position, by CLEARLY demonstrating in your posts that not only is there no truth in it; the attempt to
argue for this position requires contortionist abilities exceeding that of a high flying Cirque De Soleil acrobat. The circus analogy is quite apt.


I will forever remember your exegesis of "let" in 2 Thessalonians and will use that from now on as an example of just how ludicrous the post-trib position can render one. That was a real thigh slapper. If we weren't engaging in handling and interpreting the sacred Word; you'd be a real howl. But this is a serious thing: to interpret the Bible and there is really nothing funny about the casual way you made up things as you went along and pretended to know what you were talking about. As in this pathetic use of "let" in a preposterous, false way to try to make the words of Paul of Tarsus say things he never intended about the timing of the rapture.This is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Not a laughing matter.



The truth of the pre-tribulation rapture remains the view of the majority of evangelicals and pentecostals in this country because it is the capstoone of the edifice of Bible Prophecy and god will never allow it to be otherwise; despite every attempt at reconstruction by clownish would-be Bible teachers like yourself. The Lord is soon to come. We all will have our reward for our labors in His vineyard.And reward will be given to all who labored against his Word and His people. I shudder to think what yours will be OP when some of your less-than-brilliant rewriting of the Bible is unveiled.


You said you were raised in a family that were died-in-the-wool pre--tribulationists. What the hell happened to you ?Who bewitched you that you have become a poster boy for the worst distortion of Bible prophecy in or outside of Christianity ? You get hooked up with some cessationist Baptists ? Some hyper-Zionistic and politicized,militaristic church where judaizing errors and heresies abound ? What ? The exodus FROM post-trib to pre-trib is a well worn path. The path going in the opposite direction is usually overgrown because grace of the Holy Spirit leads from error to truth. Something much darker leads in the opposite direction. I pray for your sake that you awaken to what has happened to you and go back to your familial origins rooted in the pre-tribulation view. This judaizing,hyper legalistic doctrine you have gotten hard wired into will erode your whole walk with God. This thread is proof that it has already eroded even a pretense of respect for careful scriptural scholarship and analysis. Now you simply use the Bible to prop up the short leg on the table of Biblical Truth God sets before us; that short leg being the Post-Trib Cult. You are so enamoured of this heresy you don't even care when your make-believe interpretations are exposed for what they are. At this point you seem as hard-wired into post-tribulationist doctrine as thoroughly as the borg are into their colony. Hope not. The Lord will be the judge of these things ultimately.



You are a great example to any young Christian or new Christian of where NOT to go. Don't go into the valley of Post-Tribulationism. It is a cult of legalistic,distortive doctrine that is a regression to Old Testament ways. Ways that are alien to the church of Christ Jesus. And don't let false teachers like this OP here STEAL your expectancy of the nearness of the rapture with his post-tribulational lies and conceits that misrepresent Bible Prophecy. The promise of the pre-tribulation rapture illumines the entire subject of Bible Prophecy and allows one to see a very clear picture and chronology of what is coming. The OP's confused,convoluted posts represent what happens when we presume to REWRITE the Bible. God will give us over to
a spirit of confusion. He is the demonic mascot of the whole team of post-tribulationists.


If you DO ever have deliverance session OP,I think Spirit of Confusion will be first up on the chopping block. That's what I think.
 Quoting: VAN HELSING 394628


No - thank you vh, for proving me right again. Your nothing but an arrogant know-it-all, who when backed into a corner, starts spitting venom and making all kinds of crazy accusations. You really need to look deep and see where this hostility stems from. Why can't you make your arguments without encroaching on me personally?

Should I remind you what the fruits of the Holy spirit are?

Love
Joy
Peace
Longsuffering
Kindness
Goodness
Faithfulness
Gentleness
Self-control

None of these seem to be jumping out at me while suffering through your posts at all. In fact it seems quite the opposite. Then again, everything you're trying to prove here IS opposite to the Word. Perhaps your are in opposition to God overall in your life? Is God really God of your life or do you consider yourself still number 1? Do you have a spirit of control?

VH, THIS IS HOW YOU ARE COMING ACROSS TO EVERYONE IN THIS THREAD:

Anger
Pride
Arrogance
Wrath
Hate
Malice
warring
impatient
unkind
ungentle
lack of self-control

It's not just me who notices because you have been reprimanded by others here as well.

Perhaps you have some lingering demons that are unaddressed - dare I say welcomed? Do you even have the Holy spirit in you? Fruits are the product of careful cultivation. To me it seems that you have been careful cultivalting something other than the comforter. Your fruits speak LOUD.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 556429
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11/22/2008 05:50 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
calm down VH he's admitted Rev 19 shows the marriage supper is before the physical return of Christ... please the histrionics are uncalled for although the vocabulary is impressive! LOL I still need to look up soteriology for goodness sake

peace love and joy kindness gentleness patience longsuffering

rb


Actually what I said was:

"Well, if you look at Rev 19, you see that the time of the marriage of the Lamb has come, and then it begins describing the physical second coming of Christ. That's when it takes place"

It didn't say that it happened before or after. My interepretation is that it happens at the same time.

It states that the "wife hath made herself ready" Ready for what?
Answer: The second coming of Jesus Christ which is described in verse 11.

The major point though is that I have already proven to you using scripture that the marriage is AFTER the great trib which is the purpose of this entire thread.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 551607


If the Christians are raptured pre-trib who are all of those who dies in Jesus name? The one's who beg Jesus to avenge them?

It's obvious that they are Christians killed by the Anti-Christ armies...IOW there is no pre-trib rapture...
rb
User ID: 556939
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11/22/2008 06:04 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
the pre-70th week rapture position I think claims the persecuted martyred Christians are tribulation saints who see the light after the rapture. and Jews I think too.

it's interesting in Daniel when it says your people. Daniel's people are jews so it could be Gentiles aren't the ones being talked about.

someone could maybe try and map out the different people being spoken of from the pretrib viewpoint

which are tribulation Jews and which are tribulation Christians

and which are reptured Christians

this would make their argument easier to understand

I'm sure people have tried guess I need to read up some more

well as usual a ton of prophetic fun!

love peace and joy 1 cor 13

rb
Michelle

User ID: 483767
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11/22/2008 07:37 PM
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No - thank you vh, for proving me right again. Your nothing but an arrogant know-it-all, who when backed into a corner, starts spitting venom and making all kinds of crazy accusations. You really need to look deep and see where this hostility stems from. Why can't you make your arguments without encroaching on me personally?

Should I remind you what the fruits of the Holy spirit are?

Love
Joy
Peace
Longsuffering
Kindness
Goodness
Faithfulness
Gentleness
Self-control

None of these seem to be jumping out at me while suffering through your posts at all. In fact it seems quite the opposite. Then again, everything you're trying to prove here IS opposite to the Word. Perhaps your are in opposition to God overall in your life? Is God really God of your life or do you consider yourself still number 1? Do you have a spirit of control?

VH, THIS IS HOW YOU ARE COMING ACROSS TO EVERYONE IN THIS THREAD:

Anger
Pride
Arrogance
Wrath
Hate
Malice
warring
impatient
unkind
ungentle
lack of self-control

It's not just me who notices because you have been reprimanded by others here as well.

Perhaps you have some lingering demons that are unaddressed - dare I say welcomed? Do you even have the Holy spirit in you? Fruits are the product of careful cultivation. To me it seems that you have been careful cultivalting something other than the comforter. Your fruits speak LOUD.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 551607


I agree, OP. Having been on the receiving end of Van Helsing's wrath in several other threads, I can even more agree with that list, not that this thread isn't proof enough of his arrogance. It's sad really, but not all that surprising from someone who practices witchcraft.
Genesis 3:15: "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." The Nephilim "seed" are TPTB.

yelk3@live.com
Michelle

User ID: 483767
United States
11/22/2008 07:43 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
the pre-70th week rapture position I think claims the persecuted martyred Christians are tribulation saints who see the light after the rapture. and Jews I think too.

it's interesting in Daniel when it says your people. Daniel's people are jews so it could be Gentiles aren't the ones being talked about.

someone could maybe try and map out the different people being spoken of from the pretrib viewpoint

which are tribulation Jews and which are tribulation Christians

and which are reptured Christians

this would make their argument easier to understand

I'm sure people have tried guess I need to read up some more

well as usual a ton of prophetic fun!

love peace and joy 1 cor 13

rb
 Quoting: rb 556939


Ezekiel 37's prophecy tells us that in the end times the two sticks of Ephraim and Judah will unite into one stick. Ephraim represents the Christians, and Judah represents the Jews. So the tribulation saints encompass both Jews and nonJews. I believe the Jews will come to the knowledge of Jesus as Messiah during the Joel's latter day rain outpouring of the Holy Spirit.

15The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,

16Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions:

17And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.

18And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?

19Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

20And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.

21And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

22And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.

23Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

24And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

25And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

26Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.

27My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

28And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.
Genesis 3:15: "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." The Nephilim "seed" are TPTB.

yelk3@live.com
czygyny

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11/22/2008 08:06 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
Ezekiel 37's prophecy tells us that in the end times the two sticks of Ephraim and Judah will unite into one stick. Ephraim represents the Christians, and Judah represents the Jews. So the tribulation saints encompass both Jews and nonJews. I believe the Jews will come to the knowledge of Jesus as Messiah during the Joel's latter day rain outpouring of the Holy Spirit.

15The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,

16Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions:

17And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.

18And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?

19Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

20And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.

21And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

22And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.

23Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

24And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

25And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

26Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.

27My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

28And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.
 Quoting: Michelle


Michelle, I also think that the two-stick, two-house prophecy alludes to believers of Messiah, no matter what era they lived (pre-Sacrifice and post-Sacrifice), and I have been reading a lot about it in Isaiah.

I found this passage in Isaiah (Yeshayahu) 3:10, though, that just made me feel good, today:

“Say to the righteous ‘it is well’ for they shall eat the fruit of their righteousness.”

It helps me remember that what good we do (in Him) today, will bless us in the coming Time spent with Him forever--olam va ed.
Kletos, Eklektos & Pistos
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/22/2008 08:11 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
I agree, OP. Having been on the receiving end of Van Helsing's wrath in several other threads, I can even more agree with that list, not that this thread isn't proof enough of his arrogance. It's sad really, but not all that surprising from someone who practices witchcraft.
 Quoting: Michelle


witchcraft? Is there something you know that I don't?
czygyny

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11/22/2008 08:37 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
witchcraft? Is there something you know that I don't?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 551607


She refers to the 'mundane astrology' that Van Helsing is involved with.

Thread: ASTROLOGY AND THE BIBLE
Thread: ASTROLOGY UPDATE: AUGUST '08 IS HELL MONTH
Thread: MOOD SHIFT ON GLP LINKED TO BAD ASTROLOGY
Thread: THE ASTROLOGY OF WORLD WAR III : 2010
Thread: ASTROLOGY: TIMING THE NEXT BIG EVENT

To name a few.

Here's a definition of the craft:
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
Kletos, Eklektos & Pistos
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/22/2008 08:48 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
witchcraft? Is there something you know that I don't?


She refers to the 'mundane astrology' that Van Helsing is involved with.

Thread: ASTROLOGY AND THE BIBLE
Thread: ASTROLOGY UPDATE: AUGUST '08 IS HELL MONTH
Thread: MOOD SHIFT ON GLP LINKED TO BAD ASTROLOGY
Thread: THE ASTROLOGY OF WORLD WAR III : 2010
Thread: ASTROLOGY: TIMING THE NEXT BIG EVENT

To name a few.

Here's a definition of the craft:
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
 Quoting: czygyny


Oh - I see. I seem to have stepped on the spirit of rebellion. Makes sense now. Thanks for the info.
Anonymous Coward
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11/22/2008 08:55 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
Gotta love that bride that is battered and beaten before the marriage :)
Guess the bride will have plenty of make up on, perhaps as much as Jezebel :)
czygyny

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11/22/2008 09:04 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
Gotta love that bride that is battered and beaten before the marriage :)
Guess the bride will have plenty of make up on, perhaps as much as Jezebel :)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 224676


The Bride has been tested all throughout her time of waiting for Her Bridegroom.

MILLIONS have suffered and died for their faith, and many do TODAY, all over the world.

Removing the dross from the silver is the crucible of testing and purification...here is the patience of the Saints.

What makes you so special to think you will not be tested as well?
Kletos, Eklektos & Pistos
Anonymous Coward
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11/22/2008 09:05 PM
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If the Christians are raptured pre-trib who are all of those who dies in Jesus name? The one's who beg Jesus to avenge them?

It's obvious that they are Christians killed by the Anti-Christ armies...IOW there is no pre-trib rapture...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 556429


It's probably you.

Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Michelle

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11/22/2008 09:09 PM
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Gotta love that bride that is battered and beaten before the marriage :)
Guess the bride will have plenty of make up on, perhaps as much as Jezebel :)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 224676


The bride will be spotless before her husband on their wedding day, and if you don't like the cleansing process, then you have the choice to remain outside the door, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Genesis 3:15: "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." The Nephilim "seed" are TPTB.

yelk3@live.com
Michelle

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11/22/2008 09:10 PM
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CZgy, we had the same thoughts at the same time! Hmmmm, seems God is speaking to our little Jezebel friend.
Genesis 3:15: "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." The Nephilim "seed" are TPTB.

yelk3@live.com
Anonymous Coward
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11/22/2008 09:15 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
Gotta love that bride that is battered and beaten before the marriage :)
Guess the bride will have plenty of make up on, perhaps as much as Jezebel :)


The Bride has been tested all throughout her time of waiting for Her Bridegroom.

MILLIONS have suffered and died for their faith, and many do TODAY, all over the world.

Removing the dross from the silver is the crucible of testing and purification...here is the patience of the Saints.

What makes you so special to think you will not be tested as well?
 Quoting: czygyny


You assume there has been millions.
I'm definitely not so sure about that.
You know assumption is the mother of...

Also
Was Enoch battered or beaten before he was translated?
Was Noah battered and beaten before he went into the ark?

I mean there are quick ways to be beaten and murdered if you like, it's not very hard so if that's all you are after
you know where to go and what to say.

What makes me special? You will have to ponder on that one some more mr.monk.
Anonymous Coward
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11/22/2008 09:18 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
Gotta love that bride that is battered and beaten before the marriage :)
Guess the bride will have plenty of make up on, perhaps as much as Jezebel :)


The bride will be spotless before her husband on their wedding day, and if you don't like the cleansing process, then you have the choice to remain outside the door, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
 Quoting: Michelle


Yeah cleansed by the blood of Jesus, not by the hands of sinners. Besides you're a woman you should not be "teaching" any man anything, so before you come talking about gnashing of teeth you should perhaps look at your own conduct.
Anonymous Coward
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11/22/2008 09:28 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
Point blank: Be ready for the rapture of the church, and imminent death. There are reasons why the LORD has blessed those watchers with dreams and visions of the end days. Perhaps it is to alert those who are on the edge of repentance, or maybe it literally means we need to be prepared ourselves for the worst EVER. Either way, we will need to be strong in our faith before it comes.

Trust me, even though most of us, GLPers, Watchers are unplugged to the vast brainwashing that has taken place over the years, it will be excruciating for our flesh to endure simply though the first judgements. We are going to have to heavily rely upon the LORD for strength and go to no-one but Him. I will have to also suggest that believers find a refuge for support, otherwise I can't see the majority of us lasting through Armageddon.

There is going to have to be supernatural protection, and that can only come through our devout steadfastness through the hardships.
WalkerTalker
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11/22/2008 09:31 PM
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Honestly, I would say the church will be ill prepared when TSHTF and they will have to suffer. But I want to go with Jesus and if He wants to take us out early thats great, but I say, lets be ready just incase. We try to figure God out and He is too smart, be ready, thats what counts!
czygyny

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11/22/2008 09:42 PM
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Besides you're a woman you should not be "teaching" any man anything, so before you come talking about gnashing of teeth you should perhaps look at your own conduct.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 224676


I don't see her in here trying to lead a church.

If wisdom from a woman bothers you, don't read her posts.

Oh, and might as well not read mine, either...
Kletos, Eklektos & Pistos
Michelle

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11/22/2008 09:45 PM
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Gotta love that bride that is battered and beaten before the marriage :)
Guess the bride will have plenty of make up on, perhaps as much as Jezebel :)


The bride will be spotless before her husband on their wedding day, and if you don't like the cleansing process, then you have the choice to remain outside the door, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Yeah cleansed by the blood of Jesus, not by the hands of sinners. Besides you're a woman you should not be "teaching" any man anything, so before you come talking about gnashing of teeth you should perhaps look at your own conduct.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 224676


First of all, I'm not teaching Van Helsing. I'm pointing out obvious sin that only the Holy Spirit can convict him of and the blood of Jesus can cleanse. And secondly, there's a great book that you should read called "I Suffer Not a Woman."

Do you condone practicing astrology among Christians?
Genesis 3:15: "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." The Nephilim "seed" are TPTB.

yelk3@live.com
czygyny

User ID: 418932
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11/22/2008 09:45 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
You assume there has been millions.
I'm definitely not so sure about that.
You know assumption is the mother of...

Also
Was Enoch battered or beaten before he was translated?
Was Noah battered and beaten before he went into the ark?

I mean there are quick ways to be beaten and murdered if you like, it's not very hard so if that's all you are after
you know where to go and what to say.

What makes me special? You will have to ponder on that one some more mr.monk.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 224676



You might find some interesting information here.

[link to www.ccel.org]

And, that is MS. monk to you! hi
Kletos, Eklektos & Pistos
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/22/2008 09:58 PM
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Re: ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!
wow I thought I'd ended the rapture debate there! LOL

so we meet Jesus in the middle of the air as He's coming down, do a quick ceremony, and land with Him in a matter of moments all on the same Day?

feasible but to me improbable

I do NOT see us here for the bowl judgments. the world is basically destroyed, practically everyone is killed, and the bowls are explicitly called the wrath of God

their timing and duration is not explicit however

love peace and joy

rb
 Quoting: rb 556742


rb, I don't pretend to know every detail. I think revelation is only partial. I think God has left some mystery to it for a reason. He's a God that requires faith on our part. Without it, it's impossible to please him as you very well know. That being said, I think that the marriage is only symbolic. I don't think it's actual. When it states that the marriage has come it just means that the gathering of the elect is to take place. It doesn't necessarily mean that we will have a lavish banquet. I could be wrong. Jesus only used the parable of the marriage supper in the gospel books, as a way to simplify the truth of the matter. I believe this "marriage" will be over in the twinkling of an eye.

Yes we will be spared from the wrath of God. Notice that around each description of the wrath of God in revelation that there's a gathering of the elect involved? One in Rev 7 another in Rev 11:18, & also Rev 15. It's very clear.

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