ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!

If you cannot accept one piece of truth why should I share anymore with you?

Read this link [link to www.jamaat.net]

If you can swallow that then we might be on the same playing field.

Lotus

Sorry but Matthew was misled just as Mark.

Matthew.24:[15]"When you see the desolating abomination spoken of through Daniel the prophet standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),

[16]then those in Judea must flee to the mountains,

[17]a person on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house,

[18]a person in the field must not return to get his cloak.

[19]Woe to pregnant women and nursing mothers in those days.

[20]Pray that your flight not be in winter or on the sabbath,

[21]for at that time there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will be.

[22]And if those days had not been shortened, no one would be saved; but for the sake of the elect they will be shortened.

[23]If anyone says to you then, 'Look, here is the Messiah!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it.

[24]False messiahs and false prophets will arise, and they will perform signs and wonders so great as to deceive, if that were possible, even the elect.

[25]Behold, I have told it to you beforehand.

[26]So if they say to you, 'He is in the desert,' do not go out there; if they say, 'He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe it.

[27]For just as lightning comes from the east and is seen as far as the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

-------------------------

[15]the desolating abomination spoken of through Daniel the prophet standing in the holy place is the Mosque built over the Temple ruins in 705AD where Islam desolated the Jesus by claiming the he isn't the Son of God but just a man. The book of Daniel speaks that 1350 days of tribulation follows where [22] if those days were not shortened no one would survive and see [27]the coming of the Son of Man.

Sorry but Matthew was misled just as Mark was.



Matthew.24:[15]"When you see the desolating abomination spoken of through Daniel the prophet standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),

[16]then those in Judea must flee to the mountains,

[17]a person on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house,

[18]a person in the field must not return to get his cloak.

[19]Woe to pregnant women and nursing mothers in those days.

[20]Pray that your flight not be in winter or on the sabbath,

[21]for at that time there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will be.

[22]And if those days had not been shortened, no one would be saved; but for the sake of the elect they will be shortened.

[23]If anyone says to you then, 'Look, here is the Messiah!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it.

[24]False messiahs and false prophets will arise, and they will perform signs and wonders so great as to deceive, if that were possible, even the elect.

[25]Behold, I have told it to you beforehand.

[26]So if they say to you, 'He is in the desert,' do not go out there; if they say, 'He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe it.

[27]For just as lightning comes from the east and is seen as far as the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

-------------------------

[15]the desolating abomination spoken of through Daniel the prophet standing in the holy place is the Mosque built over the Temple ruins in 705AD where Islam desolated the Jesus by claiming the he isn't the Son of God but just a man. The book of Daniel speaks that 1350 days of tribulation follows where [22] if those days were not shortened no one would survive and see [27]the coming of the Son of Man.

You still have to provide the quote to this presumed truth of yours. And only then will I be able to either accept it or refute it, please dude, your doing things backwards....

Not this rapture B.S. argument again. I've got a rapture headache! The FACT is that very few here will live long enough to find out who is right. Isaac Newton predicted that the battle of Armageddon would not occur until at least the year 2060. Most of you will be dead by then, or too old to care.

I gave you a link with quotes from scripture with some of the verses with greek translations. So the ball is in your court. Muslims claim that Prophet Muhammad was the Paraclete that Jesus promised to send but he wasn't because the prophet of Islam did not fit the timing or the rest of the criteria that Jesus gave in the scriptures.


[27]For just as lightning comes from the east and is seen as far as the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

I propose to you that Obama is the lightening and the Son of Man is the prophet that Jesus promised to send. Son of Man means Son of my people.

Lotus

Lotus I'm just gonna tear you to pieces, I'm sorry its for your own good. Believe in my GOD the LORD Ruler of Saboath. Enoch is the Messiah and his Book is the Covenant of Noah's Ark, hold the book in your possession and be protected of the tribulation soon coming to the World.



I read your stupid link and I thought I told you that it had to be a man/prophet like you mentioned earlier, I guess no-one can keep a story straight besides those taught by the Great Teacher Enoch.

Your link says the Comforter or the Holy Spirit, read the following: "it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Paraclete will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. And when he comes, he will convince the world of sin and of righteousness and of judgment . . ."


he will convince the world of sin and of righteousness and of judgment



Has the world been convinced of sin?

You bet, "corrupted" to the core thanks Paraclete!!!!!

No chance. God told me about Enoch and how he misconstrued the word of God, I trust God above everyone. Yes, Jesus called the father to send the prophet, a real live person. Most people haven't got a clue about the true meaning of sin and that is another misinterpretation.

You certainly have more than a few surprises coming....

Lotus

Your too funny, not convincing, but sure are fun to poke at.

Jesus called the Father to send the Prophet, "was this prophet Mohamed?" Sure he was you little mullah lotus....

Seems you have eyes but not reading. No prophet Muhammad did not meet the criteria that Jesus laid down. The prophet that Jesus sends gives glory to Jesus and the Father. They explain the Christ teachings and deliver more of them. Jesus told the Apostles that it was more than they could now bear.

Lotus

Still dodging and weaving I see with my own two eyes, lol....


Post the quote where Jesus sends this prophet, even from the Koran which was written 500 years later, even the Koran will do at this point....

[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]

phoenix journals WORD OF GOD TODAY

Beyond what Jesus himself said in Matthew 24:29 thru 31 regarding when the "rapture" will occur (POST-TRIB for you tards who can't read) more interestingly the book of Revelation really goes into detail regarding who will be killed by the Anti-Christ.

Sorry agent # 553174, but even Mark disagrees with you and Jesus.


Mark.13:[14]"When you see the desolating abomination standing where he should not (let the reader understand), then those in Judea must flee to the mountains,

(15)and a person on a housetop must not go down or enter to get anything out of his house,

(16)and a person in a field must not return to get his cloak.

(17)Woe to pregnant women and nursing mothers in those days.

(18)Pray that this does not happen in winter.

(19)For those times will have tribulation such as has not been since the beginning of God's creation until now, nor ever will be.

[20]If the Lord had not shortened those days, no one would be saved; but for the sake of the elect whom he chose, he did shorten the days.

(21)If anyone says to you then, 'Look, here is the Messiah! Look, there he is!' do not believe it.

(22)False messiahs and false prophets will arise and will perform signs and wonders in order to mislead, if that were possible, the elect.

(23)Be watchful! I have told it all to you beforehand.

(24)"But in those days after that tribulation the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light,

(25)and the stars will be falling from the sky, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken.

[26]And then they will see 'the Son of Man coming in the clouds' with great power and glory,

-----------------------------------------

The desolation has occurred, and that which stands there is still standing there today (the Mosque). Islam according to Jesus and Mark has desolated the Temple by building upon it with the Mosque (Root of David) and Islam declared that Jesus is not the son of God rather a man/prophet. This event should have triggered the rest of Mark where the Son of Man descends.

Jesus obviously changed his mind in seeing that the Muslims are way more fanatical about their worship then the little boy lover's of the Catholic Church which by the way all Christians are secretly Catholics for they all read the Catholic version of the Bible the one edited in 364AD, lol, your gonna have to read the Bible that includes the Book of Enoch like the Ethiopians did. Your GONNA hold 'the Covenant of GOD' one way or another....

Keep researching boy. You'll get there eventually.

There is no 7 year tribulation or rapture in the Bible at all.

I'm already there, just waiting for the rest of you's to WAKE-UP!!!!!

I'd go along with all sunday christians are secret catholics, even as they curse her.
I don't worship on your sabbath, but the biblical Sabbath, don't keep Christmas or any of the other catholic holidays and got rid of false catholic doctrine.
And, no the Catholic church did not edit the bible. The books of the bible were known long before the RCC existed. The book of enoch wasn't written by enoch, it is an gnostic uninspired book left out of the final canon for a reason. The rest of the apocrypha should likewise be removed as in the KJV. The KJV does not use the Catholic bible manuscripts for translation, and the KJV was confirmed with the find of the Dead Sea Scrolls from 100 BC.
Two different bible streams:
charts
[link to www.febc.edu.sg]
[link to www.jesus-is-savior.com]
Manuscript criticism
[link to www.biblebelievers.com]

"I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor (Paraclete) to be with you forever— the Spirit of truth." John 14:16

"But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you." John 14:26

"But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned."I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you." John 16:7-15

The paraclete or intercessor created through each good deed is called "angel" (Ex. R. xxxii., with reference to Ps. xxxiv. 8; comp. Job xxxiii. 23—"an interceding angel," A. V. incorrectly translating "a messenger," "an interpreter"). In the sense of "Intercessor," the name "Paraclete" is given also to the Holy Spirit in the New Testament (John xiv. 16, 26; xv. 26; xvi. 7 [A. V. incorrectly, "Comforter"]; I John ii. 1 [A. V. "advocate"]), just as the Midrash calls the Holy Spirit "Synegor," which is the same as "Paraclete" (Lev. R. vi. 1; Deut. R. iii. 12). In the same sense Philo speaks of the "Logos" ("De Vita Mosis," iii., § 14) as the "Paraclete" who is to procure for the high priest forgiveness of sins, just as he uses the term "paraclete" elsewhere in the sense of "advocate" and "intercessor".
[link to www.jewishencyclopedia.com]

"So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him. "Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? Matt 24:44-45

"To him who overcomes, I will give some of the hidden manna. I will also give him a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to him who receives it." Rev 2:17

The White Stone was given in Assisi in September 2003 a few weeks before the Harmonic Concordance. Our group united in Florence for the international celebrations of the Sign of the Son of Man.

Lotus

Man are you lost. The Book of Enoch not only is written by the son of Man which is Enoch, but the book itself predicts that it will be removed from the rest of the garbage you call Holy.

1Enoch.92:[10]After that, in the sixth week, all those who are in it shall be darkened, the hearts of all of them shall be forgetful of wisdom, and in it shall a Man arise and come forth. [11]And during its completion He shall burn the house of dominion with fire, and all the race of the elect root shall be dispersed.


He shall burn the house of dominion with fire,
He shall burn the house of dominion with fire,

THIS IS THE TEMPLE BURNING.



all shall be darkened, the hearts of all of them shall be forgetful of wisdom,
all shall be darkened, the hearts of all of them shall be forgetful of wisdom,

THIS IS THE REMOVAL OF THE BOOK (WISDOM).



Go back to bed....

The book of Enoch can predict space aliens and it will just be another false prophet. It was not written by Enoch who lived before Noah, preflood.

That's not a prophet but a spirit.

Come on Lotus, I know you want to post a quote from the Koran proving Mohamed is this Paraclete. Go on, do it....

It was, you're in denial. Noah had it in his Ark, its what protected the Ark, its the Covenant. Why would GOD cleanse the Earth by saving Noah and his lot and keep Noah in the dark about the Godly things?

Keep Noah in the dark by not telling him what are the commandments, what is law, what is sin, and most importantly leave Noah without a calender to plant for the very survival of the Human race. Man are you stoned. The book of Enoch has a sun & moon calender, its precisely what Noah would need to align with Nature.


Get out of here knucklehead, you're embarrassing yourself.

Start again. Go back a few pages. Son of Man is a term used for the prophets that is why I gave you the Ezekiel quotes.

Can you connect the dots together? Mo was not the Paraclete.

The Paraclete was summoned by God our father not Archangel Gabriel.

Parakletos
[link to www.studylight.org]

Also the paraclete is much more than a prophet. However, as you are unable to move playing fields there is no point sharing anymore with you.

Have fun....

Lotus

You back track, you said that Jesus would send another prophet. You still haven't produced the verse despite your skating abilities around it. Maybe that's not what Jesus said or you feel let down that you can't defend Mohamed.



Salem aleikum...

LOL I have provided you with many verses. Son of Man is the name given to the prophets. In the verses that I gave you it mentions Jesus telling you that the Son of Man will come and Jesus tells you how to recogise the signs. These are real events that have already happened in the last five years. In other translations Jesus says he will send his witness. Now think on; how can a person witness that they have seen and spoken to Jesus unless they are walking on the earth? How can they hear and pass on his words if they are not here speaking to you now?

As I told you before there is a lot more that I could share with you but if you are not willing to drink the milk there is no point giving you any of the meat.

Mo was not the Paraclete, he did not give glory to Jesus and our father. He did not explain the Christ teachings and pass on the words of Jesus as I have been doing for a few years.

Lotus

FAIL



Your facile interpretation is inadequate. You have it backwards. The rapture is BEFORE the tribulation. I will post a thread on this extensively in the near future.


As to your glib but unscriptural statement. The word translated "before" in Joel 2:31 is "paneh" and means at the "dawning" of or beginning. Now compare this to Matthew 24:29 where the word rendered 'after' is META, an adverb with literally dozens of nuanced meanings. One of these is "immediately coming into" implying at the beginning of something.( I believe this was in Liddel-Scott lexicon...I could be wrong. But it IS one of the many meanings of "meta".) Now "before",the KJV emphasis, doesn't really jive with the "dawning" implying beginning. And "after" doesn't jive with the sense of being at the immediate beginning; but these interpretations i present are supported by the first rule of interpretation: context. They allow both Joel and matthew to very straightforwardly describe cosmic events at the dawning or immediate beginning of the tribulation. This includes the rapture. In your zeal to rewrite Holy Writ, you unwittingly have helped to settle this exegetical conundrum IN FAVOR of the pre-tribulation rapture. Thank you.


You wish to imply that this eclipsing of heavenly bodies is "after" the tribulation but "before" the day of the Lord. Using Occam's Razor,we see you are straining to put Joel and Matthew together in context with a convoluted adverbial construct using two adverbs that have diametrically opposite meanings..."before" and "after",whereas they both are clearly describing a celestial event that is at the DAWN or IMMEDIATELY UPON ENTERING the Tribulation. You rightly place the Rapture and "Day of the Lord" in the context of the celestial events; but the deep syntax and adverbial structure points to the PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE.



You lose. Please be more careful with Holy Writ in the future and stop obfuscating proper eschatological doctrine. Jesus said to pray always that we may be worthy to ESCAPE all the endtime horrors of the Tribulation (LUKE 21:36). Don't try to rewrite His Word on the Rapture ! Don't tell everyone they have to go through what Jesus said CLEARLY we should pray to ESCAPE it in the Rapture. You are a prisoner of false doctrine and would make others bound to false doctrine as you are.


I have a LOT more to say on the subject...watch for my thread. my intention with this upcoming thread ? To obliterate arguments like yours OP, which do a disservice to Holy Writ and rightly dividing the Word. Amen.


Maranatha. And a lot sooner than you post-tribulational heretics think !

Son of Man is referred to anyone who is born of a man and women (ADAM), son of GOD are the angels or the first fruits. There are no prophets, there are only messengers. GOD prophecies and that which you call prophets echo the message, that's why I call them messengers.

I just want from you a verse from any book, canonical books and apocryphal, anything that says Jesus would send another guy, man, son of man, a dude, any reference that another human or sub-human would come.

Get off your high horse.



Mark.13:[14]"When you see the desolating abomination standing where he should not (let the reader understand), then those in Judea must flee to the mountains,

(15)and a person on a housetop must not go down or enter to get anything out of his house,

(16)and a person in a field must not return to get his cloak.

(17)Woe to pregnant women and nursing mothers in those days.

(18)Pray that this does not happen in winter.

(19)For those times will have tribulation such as has not been since the beginning of God's creation until now, nor ever will be.

[20]If the Lord had not shortened those days, no one would be saved; but for the sake of the elect whom he chose, he did shorten the days.

(21)If anyone says to you then, 'Look, here is the Messiah! Look, there he is!' do not believe it.

(22)False messiahs and false prophets will arise and will perform signs and wonders in order to mislead, if that were possible, the elect.

(23)Be watchful! I have told it all to you beforehand.

(24)"But in those days after that tribulation the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light,

(25)and the stars will be falling from the sky, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken.

[26]And then they will see 'the Son of Man coming in the clouds' with great power and glory,

-----------------------------------------

The desolation has occurred, and that which stands there is still standing there today (the Mosque). Islam according to Jesus and Mark has desolated the Temple by building upon it with the Mosque (Root of David) and Islam declared that Jesus is not the son of God rather a man/prophet. This event should have triggered the rest of Mark where the Son of Man descends.

Jesus obviously changed his mind, lol, he saw that the Muslims are way more fanatical about their worship then the little boy lover's of the Catholic Church which by the way all Christians are secretly Catholics for they all read the Catholic version of the Bible the one edited in 364AD, lol, and called off the rapture pulled the plug on the Christians....

553089-Three rules to remember.


Never drink and drive.


Never drink and dress.



Never drink and try to interpret the Bible.



A word to the hermeneutically challenged.