ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!

I am not done. Just taking a breather. I'll be back...

The Rapturator

Sorry to go on like this. What am saying ? NO-I'm not sorry. In fact, maybe i am being too brief. I was just thinking there hotshot(OP); you got off too easy on your interpretive MUTILATION of Luke 21:36. You say the ESCAPE has to be on earth whereas Revelation 3:10 and other scriptures indicate otherwise. Well, in this verse Jesus says pray to ESCAPE and to STAND before the Son of man. Where is the Son of Man, Jesus ? IN HEAVEN,NOT ON THE EARTH. The obvious thrust of this statement by Jesus is to ESCAPE and BE WITH HIM and NOT ESCAPE TO SOME PLACE ON THE EARTH as you would have it. No way can you get out of this without resorting to addducing words or thoughts that are not there on the page. it just bugs me no end to see you post-trib people blithely make up your own doctrine and write your own revised edition of the Bible.



Luke 21:36. A lodestone scripture for pre-tribulation rapture believers.

OP.............There is no reference to "on earth" or "Mt. Zion" in Luke 21:36. Once again you take ridiculous liberties with the scriptures just so you can defend your indefensible eschatology. I perceive here that you are not into honest exposition or exchange regarding the scriptures. WHY am I upset ? Because you are pretending to know Biblical doctrine and misleading innocent people with your false doctrine. That's reason enough.


Yeah, the way you EXPECT people to accept all your various addenda and emendations of scriptures speaks volumes of how you operate. You think interpretation is an exercise in co-writing the Bible. Did you go to school ? Somewhere along the line you apparently signed up for a course in Biblical Hermeneutics and ended up in Creative Writing 101. either that or "Post Tribulationism for the Biblically Challenged".


Anyway, your false way of adding words to the scriptures when it suits your purposes is revealed here for the discerning GLP reader. And you did this all by your own hand. You took the rope and hung yourself and your false doctrine with it, like Haman in the Book of Esther. I am glad you decided to be a poster boy on GLP for Post Tribulationism. You are a classic Post-Tribulational scripture distorter.



Read this section of Revelation on ADDING your own words to the prophetic scriptures:


'If any man shall ADD unto these things,
God shall add unto him the plagues that are
written in this book.' (Revelation 22:18)

Your false doctrine teaches that you must go through the Tribulation. Your capacity for casual rewriting of scripture,seen in the light of the above statement,tells me you will indeed be going through the Tribulation. Only don't expect to see yours truly or the church of Jesus there. We will have long since left the scene of that spiritual catastrophe in the Rapture. Amen. Maranatha.

Hi rb. Sounds like you really found an extra-biblical but nonetheless well founded truth to shore up the Pre-Trib traching. Hey-you know we don't have to be apologetic about our eschatological views. The right view is born of the Holy Spirit. And that makes us bold in defending it !! Amen.
And this is no small debate. Our eschatology is a function of our pneumatology and our total theology. The endtime chronology of events is not an arbitrary thing. The roots of post-tribulationism are not scriptural or Biblical. It is a heresy that Paul went way out of his way to confute in his letters to the Thessalonians. The way we see the rapture reveals our soteriology and all the deep ramifications thereof. It is crucial we get it RIGHT for many,many profoundly spiritual reasons.



But THAT is a long story...just saying hi and thanking you for that Jewish tradition that casts some light on the subjecty to be sure. Blessings to you. Maranatha ! And sooner than we may even imagine !

OP- I notice that you haven't addressed even ONE of my interpretive points with the bible. Yet you wrote that you solved the debate with scriptures in your thread title. You are a false advertiser. I explained Luke 21:36 as an obvious exhortatuion from Jesus to be worthy to ESCAPE and NOT STAY for all the horrors of Tribulation. I put it in context of an event that is pre-tribulational. You cannot get out of this proper interpretation and now you write an insubstantive,rambling rant. Your first mistake was to set yourself up as a Biblical exegete. You're a guy with an ill-founded opinion and you are parading it like it was a coal off the altar of Almighty God instead of the pimple on the Devil's behind that it is, in truth. You are a false teacher. I am pointing this out. You don't like it. Well that's too bad. You're wearing shoes about six sizes too big. It's not my fault that you look like a clown,if you follow my drift.

OP- I notice that you haven't addressed even ONE of my interpretive points with the bible. Yet you wrote that you solved the debate with scriptures in your thread title. You are a false advertiser. I explained Luke 21:36 as an obvious exhortatuion from Jesus to be worthy to ESCAPE and NOT STAY for all the horrors of Tribulation. I put it in context of an event that is pre-tribulational. You cannot get out of this proper interpretation and now you write an insubstantive,rambling rant. Your first mistake was to set yourself up as a Biblical exegete. You're a guy with an ill-founded opinion and you are parading it like it was a coal off the altar of Almighty God instead of the pimple on the Devil's behind that it is, in truth. You are a false teacher. I am pointing this out. You don't like it. Well that's too bad. You're wearing shoes about six sizes too big. It's not my fault that you look like a clown,if you follow my drift.


It's funny that you're preaching to me about context. Pre-trib is ALL based on OUT-OF-CONTEXT scriptures. You might want to look that word up in the dictionary. It might give some ounce of clue on how to interpret scripture. It's not that hard.
I will quote you: "I put it in context of an event that is pre-tribulational" Ok great. That's the only way you can make this ridiculous view work EVER. How about you put it in context with the rest of the word of God? Then you might get somewheres.
I could come up with all sorts of stories myself simply by taking a verse here and taking a verse there and then mashing them together to try to come up with something entirely new. It's like trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

Imminent return - taken out of context of a post trib description

"Come up hither" - riduculous assumption made in revelations that this is the rapture because the church is never mentioned after that. - what a joke (by the way the church is mentioned in rev 10:7 as described as "the mystery of God" Ephesians 3 tells us that the mystery of God is the church.

7 year trib - not even in the bible, it's 3.5 years when the antichrist abolishes the daily sacrifice

Christians spared from trib because that's the wrath of God? - wrong again.
The wrath of God is poured out after the great trib and is known as the day of the Lord. The great trib is Satan' wrath on the saints. We are told in rev that power will be given to him to overcome the saints.

God won't deal with Israel until the church is raptured? -
WRONG: God is already dealing with Israel when he set them up as nation again and started the gathering of Jews back to the homeland. THE CHURCH IS STILL HERE.

Not to mention that Christ - who you claim as your master NEVER MENTIONS A PRE-TRIB Rapture. He only describes a POST TRIB GATHERING to his disciples. Are you willing to trump Jesus Christ himself?
What Christ does say is:

"He who endures to the end will be saved". Endures what? All of what he is describing in Matt 24. You will be here to endure it.

"I will raise them up on the LAST DAY. If this is true (and it has to be because it came from Christ himself) we already know that the resurrection of the dead is locked to the gathering of those who remain. It happens at the same time. Read I thess 4:16-17 and I cor 15:51-53
I will use your precious rapture passages against you everytime.
Do you think that he was referring to the Last day for the church? The church wasn't even formed yet when he stated this and he was talking to Jews.

To each church in Revelation he tells them "He who OVERCOMES". What is the church overcoming if the are to be raptured prior? Oh yeah look what is stated in Rev 21:7 which is at the very end of the book. He states again:

He that overcometh shall inherit all thing: and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

Your "theories" are devil's doctrine. You should check yourself before you wreck yourself. It's o.k. to be wrong. Right now all I hear is PRIDE. GOD IS NOT PLEASED WITH PEOPLE DISTORTING HIS WORD.

I can back everything up with IN CONTEXT scripture. You will never be able to do it. I'm done with you. You waste my time.

It is sad O-P, very sad. I tried may of times giving seekers who claim to be wanting the truth the original and Holy scriptures of where this story first was written but to no avail. They'd rather believe a forged copy of the Rapture.

Book of Thessalonian was written in 50AD and many apostles were schooled by the Book of Enoch which was written centuries before the New Testament.


Book Of Enoch.


2Enoch.65:[6]There will be one aeon, and all the righteous who shall escape the LORD'S Great judgment, shall be collected in the Great aeon, for the righteous the Great aeon will begin, and they will live eternally, and then too there will be amongst them neither labour, nor sickness.

LORD'S Great judgment, shall be collected in the Great aeon,


The One who wrote the story "first" is the AUTHOR of that story, you gotta believe in the GOD in which the rapture story was written in to be a part of that story. Judaism is a forged copy from the book of Enoch that's why the rapture is mentioned in Joel, and thereafter in the New Testament.

I swear, if you folks put a fraction of a percentage of the energy and effort that you use to argue with each other in these long drawn out verbatim posts, into worthy causes ..... there would be a lot of people seeing the good that Jesus wished for in humans.

I swear, if you folks put a fraction of a percentage of the energy and effort that you use to argue with each other in these long drawn out verbatim posts, into worthy causes ..... there would be a lot of people seeing the good that Jesus wished for in humans.

I guess it's easier to argue tho, don't even have to leave the house for that!

I'm curious, of each of you ....
-- Do you feel better when you've told the other person how it really is?
-- Do you feel better about yourself telling the other reader how wrong he/she is?
-- Do you feel holy or something, knowing that you are trying to set the other one straight?
-- Do you feel offended when the other tries to set you straight?
-- Don't you ever get tired of arguing semantecs?
-- Have you ever thought that all this energy you place into arguing who is right and who is wrong and how THEY are translating the Bible wrong ...... might just be of negative entities boggling you up in negative feelings towards each other, rather than feeling posative of and with the Spirit you supposedly profess? And you can't for one minute say you do feel positive about what you do in ths thread, endless arguing is always negatively charged.

Ah well, carry on with the endless you're wrong no your'e wrong no you're wrong no you ...........................

I swear, if you folks put a fraction of a percentage of the energy and effort that you use to argue with each other in these long drawn out verbatim posts, into worthy causes ..... there would be a lot of people seeing the good that Jesus wished for in humans.

I guess it's easier to argue tho, don't even have to leave the house for that!

I'm curious, of each of you ....
-- Do you feel better when you've told the other person how it really is?
-- Do you feel better about yourself telling the other reader how wrong he/she is?
-- Do you feel holy or something, knowing that you are trying to set the other one straight?
-- Do you feel offended when the other tries to set you straight?
-- Don't you ever get tired of arguing semantecs?
-- Have you ever thought that all this energy you place into arguing who is right and who is wrong and how THEY are translating the Bible wrong ...... might just be of negative entities boggling you up in negative feelings towards each other, rather than feeling posative of and with the Spirit you supposedly profess? And you can't for one minute say you do feel positive about what you do in ths thread, endless arguing is always negatively charged.

Ah well, carry on with the endless you're wrong no your'e wrong no you're wrong no you ...........................

I've noticed you like to chime in a lot on Christian threads