ENDING THE "RAPTURE" DEBATE USING BIBLE VERSES!!!

Book Of Enoch.


2Enoch.65:[6]There will be one aeon, and all the righteous who shall escape the LORD'S Great judgment, shall be collected in the Great aeon, for the righteous the Great aeon will begin, and they will live eternally, and then too there will be amongst them neither labour, nor sickness.

LORD'S Great judgment, shall be collected in the Great aeon,


The One who wrote the story "first" is the AUTHOR of that story, you gotta believe in the GOD in which the rapture story was written in to be a part of that story. Judaism is a forged copy from the book of Enoch that's why the rapture is mentioned in Joel, and thereafter in the New Testament.

553089-Three rules to remember.


Never drink and drive.


Never drink and dress.



Never drink and try to interpret the Bible.



A word to the hermeneutically challenged.

Book Of Enoch.


2Enoch.65:[6]There will be one aeon, and all the righteous who shall escape the LORD'S Great judgment, shall be collected in the Great aeon, for the righteous the Great aeon will begin, and they will live eternally, and then too there will be amongst them neither labour, nor sickness.

LORD'S Great judgment, shall be collected in the Great aeon,


The One who wrote the story "first" is the AUTHOR of that story, you gotta believe in the GOD in which the rapture story was written in to be a part of that story. Judaism is a forged copy from the book of Enoch that's why the rapture is mentioned in Joel, and thereafter in the New Testament.

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Hey!! Me again.

Whats a aeon?

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

According to wiki it means "Age", "Forever" or "For Eternity".

I believe the catching away, the blink of an eye and associated verses, amongst other things.
I do not believe in a general everybody who claims to be a believer, "rapture".

O.K. People.

I will VERY EASILY disprove the Pre-trib "rapture" theory:

Read the famous "rapture" verses in

I Thess 4:16-17

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Most people stop right here but if you continue reading their is a clue to the timing of this event.

I Thess 5:1-2

1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

I think we can all agree that here, he is still addressing the "rapture" subject in the above verses.

2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Again, he's still in context with the famous "rapture" verses. Look at how he refers to this event by:

THE DAY OF THE LORD!!!!

Now you may be thinking so what? what does that tell us?

Well, lets look at what the bible tells us about the day of the Lord:

Joel 2:31

31The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the LORD come.

Joel 3:14-15

14Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
15The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.

Isaiah 13:9-10

9Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

10For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

Do you see the correlation between all these verses? That's right, they all describe the same celestial events:

Sun & moon darkened, stars shall not give their light

So what does this have to do with the timing of the "rapture"

Well, lets go to Matt 24:29

Here the disciples have asked Christ what will precede his second coming. Listen to what he tells them!

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

CHRIST, BY DESCRIBING THE SAME CELESTIAL ANAMOLIES, HAS JUST SET A TIMELINE FOR THE DAY OF THE LORD (RAPTURE) AS HAPPENING AFTER THE GREAT TRIBULATION!!!

Look what he goes on to tell his disciples:


30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Do you see that this description lines up perfectly with the famous "rapture" passage of I Thess 4?

Look at the similarities:

I Thess 4:16-17
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout
Matt 24:30-31
They shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven

I Thess 4:16-17
with the voice of the archangel

Matt 24:30-31
And he shall send his angels

I Thess 4:16-17
and with the trump of God

Matt 24:30-31
with a great sound of a trumpet

I Thess 4:16-17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up

Matt 24:30-31
and they shall gather together his elect

We have come full circle. All of this is CONCRETE evidence for a post tribulation "rapture" and cannot be denied.

THE CHURCH WILL GO THROUGH THE GREAT TRIBULATION WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT!!

CHURCH, IT'S TIME TO AMP YOURSELF UP SPIRITUAL AND LEAVE THIS WORLD BEHIND. WE HAVE MANY TRIBULATIONS AHEAD OF US TO ENDURE. ONLY THE TRUE WALK THE WALK BELIEVERS WILL BE WORTHY OF GLORY. STOP DECEIVING YOURSELVES AND COME BACK TO THE TRUTH!!!


God Bless.

it doesn't matter when the rapture occurs

we still have the same task at hand getting the Gospel out

endless arguments are fruitless and diversionary

a pre-tribber can cite verses as well so can a mid-tribber prewrath etc etc

we frankly won't know til it happens

fruits of the Spirit love joy peace &c.

rb


It doesn't matter for those who are spiritual prepared, but what about those who aren't? There are many "Christians" who live like the world and think they will be taken out in the rapture before anything bad happens. It's that group who are going to be off guard and will probably pledge allegiance to the beast because they weren't prepared. So it does matter about the truth of the timing. And frankly we do know when it will happen, because the bible tells us when it will occur.

Well apparently I was unsuccessfull in ending the "rapture" debate! I guess scriptural proof isn't enough anymore. Pretty sad really.

FAIL



Your facile interpretation is inadequate. You have it backwards. The rapture is BEFORE the tribulation. I will post a thread on this extensively in the near future.


As to your glib but unscriptural statement. The word translated "before" in Joel 2:31 is "paneh" and means at the "dawning" of or beginning. Now compare this to Matthew 24:29 where the word rendered 'after' is META, an adverb with literally dozens of nuanced meanings. One of these is "immediately coming into" implying at the beginning of something.( I believe this was in Liddel-Scott lexicon...I could be wrong. But it IS one of the many meanings of "meta".) Now "before",the KJV emphasis, doesn't really jive with the "dawning" implying beginning. And "after" doesn't jive with the sense of being at the immediate beginning; but these interpretations i present are supported by the first rule of interpretation: context. They allow both Joel and matthew to very straightforwardly describe cosmic events at the dawning or immediate beginning of the tribulation. This includes the rapture. In your zeal to rewrite Holy Writ, you unwittingly have helped to settle this exegetical conundrum IN FAVOR of the pre-tribulation rapture. Thank you.


You wish to imply that this eclipsing of heavenly bodies is "after" the tribulation but "before" the day of the Lord. Using Occam's Razor,we see you are straining to put Joel and Matthew together in context with a convoluted adverbial construct using two adverbs that have diametrically opposite meanings..."before" and "after",whereas they both are clearly describing a celestial event that is at the DAWN or IMMEDIATELY UPON ENTERING the Tribulation. You rightly place the Rapture and "Day of the Lord" in the context of the celestial events; but the deep syntax and adverbial structure points to the PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE.



You lose. Please be more careful with Holy Writ in the future and stop obfuscating proper eschatological doctrine. Jesus said to pray always that we may be worthy to ESCAPE all the endtime horrors of the Tribulation (LUKE 21:36). Don't try to rewrite His Word on the Rapture ! Don't tell everyone they have to go through what Jesus said CLEARLY we should pray to ESCAPE it in the Rapture. You are a prisoner of false doctrine and would make others bound to false doctrine as you are.


I have a LOT more to say on the subject...watch for my thread. my intention with this upcoming thread ? To obliterate arguments like yours OP, which do a disservice to Holy Writ and rightly dividing the Word. Amen.


Maranatha. And a lot sooner than you post-tribulational heretics think !

Well apparently I was unsuccessfull in ending the "rapture" debate! I guess scriptural proof isn't enough anymore. Pretty sad really.

What IS sad is your smugness and arrogance -- you didn't come to gently correct or merely express a viewpoint; you came to hit Christians over the head with a Bible.

In a nutshell you came to sow discord under the guise of reproof. You know full well that sincere believers have honest disagreements regarding this doctrine. You bait and scorn them with a mocking tone. This is sin.

Envy, strife, and dissensions are not of God, and Christians ought not foment these. We are rather to strive for unity. There's more than enough discord in the body already.

It's perfectly okay to present an honest viewpoint -- even if it is quite different than the mainstream. We don't all interpret scripture the same. But to do so dogmatically, without commensurate humility, puts others on the defensive.

It's good to hash out these issues. Yet we must remember to do so lovingly.

FAIL

I have a LOT more to say on the subject...watch for my thread. my intention with this upcoming thread ? To obliterate arguments like yours OP, which do a disservice to Holy Writ and rightly dividing the Word. Amen.

Get off your high horse.

Ok for starters - it's not my viewpoint. It's the word of God.

I have come to show people the truth.

Just because the majority of christians believe it, doesn't make it right.

Start relying on the Word of God!!

For any who would like to compare the Rapture (When Jesus comes as a thief in the night for his saints) to His 2nd coming (When He comes with His saints to the battlefield of Meggido, Where He comes as a conquering king in full view of All of Earth's inhabitants.) This site below has a great comparison chart that lists the differences, with all of the Biblical Verses for reference and study.

[link to www.bibleprophesy.org]

FAIL

I have a LOT more to say on the subject...watch for my thread. my intention with this upcoming thread ? To obliterate arguments like yours OP, which do a disservice to Holy Writ and rightly dividing the Word. Amen.

Get off your high horse.




Oh, crap, you've gone and woken up the pompous van helsing. Now you all are in for a tireless tirade.

I am not done. Just taking a breather. I'll be back...

The Rapturator