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God gave Man free will. What; NOT in the Bible???
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Jodido
User ID: 14199
11/17/2008 2:00 PM
Report abusive post | God gave Man free will. What; NOT in the Bible???
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I have my own ideas about god; lets just say my own interpretation. But it does take some things literally. For instance, I think Man is in the image of god. Take the pineal gland. I am a believer in the veil of ignorance. But integral to that is a belief in the free will of Man.
I do not remember where I heard this. I always though the Bible said it; in Genesis somewhere. But, I asked a pastor today, and he said its not in the Bible. This pastor is fresh out of seminary, so he should know.
Its a big thing; where did I hear it? Who came up with it? Is it a lie?
What is Man, then; on probation? |
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Mister Obvious  
Forum Moderator
User ID: 531185
11/17/2008 2:07 PM
 | | Re: God gave Man free will. What; NOT in the Bible??? | Quote |
God is infinite.
Man is a creation of God.
There is no move, through the mind, body or soul, that God does not already know we will make.
But since we're His creation and He is INFINITE, the sole creator of Knowledge... then it makes perfect since that we do not have free will. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 553126
11/17/2008 2:09 PM | | Re: God gave Man free will. What; NOT in the Bible??? | Quote |
I would wish for you to recive an answer to your probe.
However, being that you are up against a deeply codified, brain washing organization such as organized religion, you possibly might receive a better answer from those not so religiously affiliated.
I have my own ideas about god; lets just say my own interpretation. But it does take some things literally. For instance, I think Man is in the image of god. Take the pineal gland. I am a believer in the veil of ignorance. But integral to that is a belief in the free will of Man.
I do not remember where I heard this. I always though the Bible said it; in Genesis somewhere. But, I asked a pastor today, and he said its not in the Bible. This pastor is fresh out of seminary, so he should know.
Its a big thing; where did I hear it? Who came up with it? Is it a lie?
What is Man, then; on probation? Quoting: Jodido |
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Jodido
User ID: 14199
11/17/2008 2:12 PM | | Re: God gave Man free will. What; NOT in the Bible??? | Quote |
While I await an answer, to my most urgent of questions, I am going to ramble.
Recentl, I have been thinking on Jesus vs. the thiefs. There was the theif that the crowd chose to live, and Jesus to die. Then, a new thing for me, the two theifs on either side of Jesus, on the cross. I was reading a website:
[link to www.hiddenmeanings.com]
That, at the bottom - its a long page, talks about these two theifs. It said that our pineal gland, our third eye, is our connection to god (Descartes). It compared that to Jesus sourunded by the two theifs on the cross. It said the two theifs are our two eyes, and Jesus is the pineal gland, the third eye.
But, its interpretation is that, since these are theifs, the reality we are seeing with our two eyes is a lie. A false reality; a put on; like the holodeck in Star Trek.
I say that, sure the pineal gland is the coonection to god; makes sense to me. God the creator. I think that the reality we see with our two eyes is the creation. |
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Jodido
User ID: 14199
11/17/2008 2:15 PM | | Re: God gave Man free will. What; NOT in the Bible??? | Quote |
God is infinite.
Man is a creation of God.
There is no move, through the mind, body or soul, that God does not already know we will make.
But since we're His creation and He is INFINITE, the sole creator of Knowledge... then it makes perfect since that we do not have free will. Quoting: Mister Obvious
Infinite is a mighty big word. I would go so far as to say its an absolute word. But saying that god is infinite, and all knowing, does not answer my question. |
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Jodido
User ID: 14199
11/17/2008 2:21 PM | | Re: God gave Man free will. What; NOT in the Bible??? | Quote |
God is infinite.
Man is a creation of God.
There is no move, through the mind, body or soul, that God does not already know we will make.
But since we're His creation and He is INFINITE, the sole creator of Knowledge... then it makes perfect since that we do not have free will.
Infinite is a mighty big word. I would go so far as to say its an absolute word. But saying that god is infinite, and all knowing, does not answer my question. Quoting: Jodido
I mean, how do you find the connection between god being all knowing and infinite, with us not having free will?
Here is my interpretation. Take a white light, put it thru a prism, get the resultant rainbow:
White light = God = One
Rainbow = Us = Many
The Prism = Oh, I dunno. The Big Bang?
Notice there are no color bands of white in a rainbow. But the rainbow defines the white light. We are god, even though we are seperate from God, IE the knowledge. The rainbow is seperate from the white light; the veil of ignorance. And, we have to have this seperation to exist in the rainbow; the free will to be. That is my idea (well, alot of it). |
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Mister Obvious
Forum Moderator
User ID: 531185
11/17/2008 2:24 PM
| | Re: God gave Man free will. What; NOT in the Bible??? | Quote |
Infinite is a mighty big word. I would go so far as to say its an absolute word. But saying that god is infinite, and all knowing, does not answer my question. Quoting: Jodido
Here's my description of why there's no "Free will":
Been there, done that. |
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Jodido
User ID: 14199
11/17/2008 2:24 PM | | Re: God gave Man free will. What; NOT in the Bible??? | Quote |
So, my idea conveniently answers the question of why Jesus, god in the flesh, died. Jesus' connection to god was so great, ie the virgin birth, that Jesus was a band of white.
Existing in the rainbow???? No, can't have that... |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 553126
11/17/2008 2:24 PM | | Re: God gave Man free will. What; NOT in the Bible??? | Quote |
It's like this.
A religious student has a question.
Some BIG guy high up on the religious ladder, say a preacher, or priest answers the question the best way he can without making God to appear impotent.
Next preacher likes the answer and so on, till the answer just becomes a part of the doctrines and 'pat answers' to the inevitable question that any astute student of religion is going to ask.
Like when a person asks a mechanic what was wrong with their car, when it was only bad gas.
"The overexploitation of the reversion instrumentations somehow caused a cauterization of the mechanization within the pressurization compartmentalization."
And the only comeback is : "Um, ok." |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 541166
11/17/2008 2:25 PM | | Re: God gave Man free will. What; NOT in the Bible??? | Quote |
Gen 1:27 So God created human beings[a] in his own image.
In the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
But man fell and God took away His eternal force and the universe became "corrupted".
God loved man and is holding the universe together until the number saved is acomplished.
God has made one way to escape, his Son, Jesus. |
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Free Indeed
User ID: 553005
11/17/2008 2:27 PM | | Re: God gave Man free will. What; NOT in the Bible??? | Quote |
I have my own ideas about god; lets just say my own interpretation. But it does take some things literally. For instance, I think Man is in the image of god. Quoting: Jodido
One question if I might regarding your first two statements. (I do not intend this posed question with a hostile intent BTW)
If you have your interpretation of God, but yet feel that God made man in his image; then do you believe you have in fact "created" God in your image? Please explain if you feel so inclined.
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Jodido
User ID: 14199
11/17/2008 2:27 PM | | Re: God gave Man free will. What; NOT in the Bible??? | Quote |
Infinite is a mighty big word. I would go so far as to say its an absolute word. But saying that god is infinite, and all knowing, does not answer my question.
Here's my description of why there's no "Free will":
Been there, done that. Quoting: Mister Obvious
Its my understanding that god does not manifest to us directly in order to preserve our free will, which god cherishes. If he did it would be like a giant magnet, and us all pellets of steel; we would immediately lose our free will; be re-absorbed back into the white light; lose our individuality.
I have given my will to god, for I realized that god knows (like, the whole story), I do not.
I did not lose my individuality. I still have the freedom to be. |
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Jodido
User ID: 14199
11/17/2008 2:29 PM | | Re: God gave Man free will. What; NOT in the Bible??? | Quote |
I have my own ideas about god; lets just say my own interpretation. But it does take some things literally. For instance, I think Man is in the image of god.
One question if I might regarding your first two statements. (I do not intend this posed question with a hostile intent BTW)
If you have your interpretation of God, but yet feel that God made man in his image; then do you believe you have in fact "created" God in your image? Please explain if you feel so inclined. Quoting: Free Indeed
I feel that god is this universe. I feel that we exist within god. By chicken & egg, god came first. We are what, maybe a million years old, as homo sapiens. The universe is over 13 billion... |
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Mister Obvious
Forum Moderator
User ID: 531185
11/17/2008 2:30 PM
| | Re: God gave Man free will. What; NOT in the Bible??? | Quote |
I did not lose my individuality. I still have the freedom to be. Quoting: Jodido
Of course... 
Humans were designed to be individual altogether, all with different purposes. |
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Free Indeed
User ID: 553005
11/17/2008 2:33 PM | | Re: God gave Man free will. What; NOT in the Bible??? | Quote |
I have my own ideas about god; lets just say my own interpretation. But it does take some things literally. For instance, I think Man is in the image of god.
One question if I might regarding your first two statements. (I do not intend this posed question with a hostile intent BTW)
If you have your interpretation of God, but yet feel that God made man in his image; then do you believe you have in fact "created" God in your image? Please explain if you feel so inclined.
I feel that god is this universe. I feel that we exist within god. By chicken & egg, god came first. We are what, maybe a million years old, as homo sapiens. The universe is over 13 billion... Quoting: Jodido
I understand that you have said you have an interpretation of God. But that does not really answer the question I have posed.
Is this personal interpretation in fact creating God in your image, or not? You of course do not have to answer, but I sure am curious.
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Jodido
User ID: 14199
11/17/2008 2:33 PM | | Re: God gave Man free will. What; NOT in the Bible??? | Quote |
But, in terms of us being made in God's image; yes, I think we human Earthlings are that special: being the image of the One god the created this universe. I have personal reasons for believing this (life experience) But, I point out, are we the only ones here, or is there other life in the universe? Yes, the universe is not only teeming with life, it IS alive.
BUT Earth is the only planet in which God's ONLY BEGOTTEN Son incarnated. So, ya see how I think we are special? |
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Jodido
User ID: 14199
11/17/2008 2:34 PM | | Re: God gave Man free will. What; NOT in the Bible??? | Quote |
I have my own ideas about god; lets just say my own interpretation. But it does take some things literally. For instance, I think Man is in the image of god.
One question if I might regarding your first two statements. (I do not intend this posed question with a hostile intent BTW)
If you have your interpretation of God, but yet feel that God made man in his image; then do you believe you have in fact "created" God in your image? Please explain if you feel so inclined.
I feel that god is this universe. I feel that we exist within god. By chicken & egg, god came first. We are what, maybe a million years old, as homo sapiens. The universe is over 13 billion...
I understand that you have said you have an interpretation of God. But that does not really answer the question I have posed.
Is this personal interpretation in fact creating God in your image, or not? You of course do not have to answer, but I sure am curious. Quoting: Free Indeed
No, I am not creating god; god created me, but let me have the free will to think my own thoughts, draw my own paintings. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 172379
11/17/2008 2:35 PM | | Re: God gave Man free will. What; NOT in the Bible??? | Quote |
I have my own ideas about god; lets just say my own interpretation. But it does take some things literally. For instance, I think Man is in the image of god. Take the pineal gland. I am a believer in the veil of ignorance. But integral to that is a belief in the free will of Man.
I do not remember where I heard this. I always though the Bible said it; in Genesis somewhere. But, I asked a pastor today, and he said its not in the Bible. This pastor is fresh out of seminary, so he should know.
Its a big thing; where did I hear it? Who came up with it? Is it a lie?
What is Man, then; on probation? Quoting: Jodido
Evidently, God did give you free will as you are exercising it at this moment.
It does not come out and say anywhere in the Bible that one has free will. But any one with common sense should know that they do.
However, there ARE a few that God has chosen to do His will and they do not have free will. They are called the 'elect' but not all Christians are of the 'elect'. |
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Free Indeed
User ID: 553005
11/17/2008 2:40 PM | | Re: God gave Man free will. What; NOT in the Bible??? | Quote |
I understand that you have said you have an interpretation of God. But that does not really answer the question I have posed.
Is this personal interpretation in fact creating God in your image, or not? You of course do not have to answer, but I sure am curious.
No, I am not creating god; god created me, but let me have the free will to think my own thoughts, draw my own paintings. Quoting: Jodido
I think you have answewred the question. Thank you.
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Mister Obvious
Forum Moderator
User ID: 531185
11/17/2008 2:41 PM
| | Re: God gave Man free will. What; NOT in the Bible??? | Quote |
I think you have answewred the question. Thank you. Quoting: Free Indeed
Yep...
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Free Indeed
User ID: 553005
11/17/2008 2:44 PM | | Re: God gave Man free will. What; NOT in the Bible??? | Quote |
Thanks allot, I just spit out my soda through my nose. That smile thing was unexpected.
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Jodido
User ID: 32814
11/17/2008 3:30 PM | | Re: God gave Man free will. What; NOT in the Bible??? | Quote |
BUT
I have always been god curious. My upbringing was catholic and jewish (go figure), but the catholic side did not attend church on a regular basis. It was not drilled into me how to believe in god.
What I was always curious about was the concept of God; exactly who or what is that?
What is a god in the flesh?
Here is one idea. That this is a dream; we all exist in god's dream. We all go to sleep at night, and have our own dreams, but always wake up in god's dream. Therefore, a god in the flesh would be god appearing in his own dream. Maybe we all are. But I am thinking here of an individual, say a Jesus.
You look in a mirror, what do you see? You, right? Thats they way I see a god in the flesh is, one living in his/her own mirror.
Take a human, any human, now get everything, every thought, emotion, nuance, ect, out of that human. Get every last morsel. Now, take that and create reality out of it.
There may be a man living now that is god, and not even know it.
In my rainbow and the white light thing, I say that humanity, altogether, make up all the colors of the rainbow. A god in the flesh would be one that is all the colors of the rainbow, in one person.
We are made in the image of god. I take that to mean that we largely have all the colors within us, but maybe like focused. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 527576
11/17/2008 3:36 PM | | Re: God gave Man free will. What; NOT in the Bible??? | Quote |
Deuteronomy 30:19 (New King James Version)
19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live" |
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Jodido
User ID: 32814
11/17/2008 3:36 PM | | Re: God gave Man free will. What; NOT in the Bible??? | Quote |
I think you have answewred the question. Thank you.
Yep...
I want to comment on infinity. I believe in the big bang, think it is far from disproven, even if the universe is more electrical in nature than your traditional scienctist attributes. But, thinking that it came from a big bang inherently says its not infinite. I do not think we have been able to see how big it is, but, rest assured ITS REAL BIG.
It started with a white light. Now that white light is seperated into many, err, lightish type things. But, before it seperated, it was a white light on a blak background. It may be that the black background is infinite. But I just don't like to use absolutes; almost like it is trying to get god, or whatever, to be infinite; like telling it...
My physics teacher in college told the class that it is mathematically proven that if you could see out your eyes, infinitely, you would be looking at the back of your head... |
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Jodido
User ID: 32814
11/17/2008 3:40 PM | | Re: God gave Man free will. What; NOT in the Bible??? | Quote |
Deuteronomy 30:19 (New King James Version)
19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live" Quoting: Anonymous Coward 527576
Um, whatever ya meant by posting that. But that brings up how I see that everything is representational. For example Mandlebrot, and his bug. I see that, with the big bang, and subsequent expansion, there is, eventually, the reverse. In that, the birth, life, then death a human goes thru I see is representational of what a universe goes thru. Just a little longer. Err, for the universe. |
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Free Indeed
User ID: 553005
11/17/2008 3:41 PM | | Re: God gave Man free will. What; NOT in the Bible??? | Quote |
We are made in the image of god. I take that to mean that we largely have all the colors within us, but maybe like focused. Quoting: Jodido
Is an image the same thing as the subject? An image in the mirror is not technically the actual you. It captures an image of you. Can that image feel, think, or operate in the same manner as the you that is creating/making the image in the mirror?
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Jodido
User ID: 32814
11/17/2008 3:41 PM | | Re: God gave Man free will. What; NOT in the Bible??? | Quote |
BUT NO ONE IS ANSWERING MY QUESTION!!!!
IF FREE WILL IS NOT IN THE BIBLE, WHERE DID WE GET THIS IDEA???
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Free Indeed
User ID: 553005
11/17/2008 3:42 PM | | Re: God gave Man free will. What; NOT in the Bible??? | Quote |
BUT NO ONE IS ANSWERING MY QUESTION!!!!
IF FREE WILL IS NOT IN THE BIBLE, WHERE DID WE GET THIS IDEA???
LOL. Sorry.
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Jodido
User ID: 32814
11/17/2008 3:44 PM | | Re: God gave Man free will. What; NOT in the Bible??? | Quote |
We are made in the image of god. I take that to mean that we largely have all the colors within us, but maybe like focused.
Is an image the same thing as the subject? An image in the mirror is not technically the actual you. It captures an image of you. Can that image feel, think, or operate in the same manner as the you that is creating/making the image in the mirror? Quoting: Free Indeed
Imagine that it is a magic mirror :)
Ya know, Pink Floyd had a song. I forget the name now, it was on their Wish You Were Here album. The lyrics went something like; you are everything you experience; everything you see; everything you hear; everything you read... |
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Jodido
User ID: 32814
11/17/2008 3:48 PM | | Re: God gave Man free will. What; NOT in the Bible??? | Quote |
There is a book I read once. Sci Fi. It may be the one called, The Man Who Walked Thru Walls. It was a story of a guy that was ordered to go to this planet, and get to know the people there. Well, one of the things the people there were into was this magic mirror thingy. They sat this guy in front of the mirror. The mirror then showed this guy his life, and other stuff. It was many moons ago; I forget the details. But, the thing is, afterwards, the dude became a god. Good book. |
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Jodido
User ID: 32814
11/17/2008 3:49 PM | | Re: God gave Man free will. What; NOT in the Bible??? | Quote |
We are made in the image of god. I take that to mean that we largely have all the colors within us, but maybe like focused.
Is an image the same thing as the subject? An image in the mirror is not technically the actual you. It captures an image of you. Can that image feel, think, or operate in the same manner as the you that is creating/making the image in the mirror?
Imagine that it is a magic mirror :)
Ya know, Pink Floyd had a song. I forget the name now, it was on their Wish You Were Here album. The lyrics went something like; you are everything you experience; everything you see; everything you hear; everything you read... Quoting: Jodido
Of course I think reincarnation has veracity. If it is true then we are alot more than just this one life we are in now... |
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