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HELENA PETROVNA BLAVATSKY

 
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11/17/2008 02:08 PM
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HELENA PETROVNA BLAVATSKY
Helena Petrovna Hahn was born on August 12, 1831 and died May 8, 1891 London, England. She was better known as Helena Blavatsky or Madame Blavatsky was the founder of Theosophy.

Helena Blavatsky was a great authority on theosophy, the doctrines of which she professed she derived from the fountainhead in Tibet.

She was born of Russian nobility and later became the secretary of the Theosophical Society. Also, she was referred to as HPB. She did much to spread Eastern religious, philosophical and occult concepts throughout the Western world.

Her father Peter von Hahn was in the Russian army. Shortly after he married Helena Andreyevna he was called into war and his wife returned to her parent' home when their daughter Helena was born. Helena Andreyevna wrote novels concerning restricted Russian women and was called the George Sand of Russia.

She died when Helena was eleven, but later Helena would say that her mother had died when she was a baby. The question is why did Helena Blavatsky deny the existence of her mother in her childhood. It is true that she grew from a sickly baby into a problem child subjected to hysteria and convulsions. When dying her mother observed sadly, "Ah well, perhaps it is best that I am dying, so at least I shall be spared seeing what befalls Helena. Of one thing I am certain, her life will not be that of other women, and she will have much to suffer."

This statement that her mother died when she was a baby seems to suggest that there was strife between the mother and daughter. It indicates a conflict between the wills. That Helen resented her mother's long absences, her intimate friendships in the bohemian world of letters, and felt it as a desertion of the home and herself. Her mother seemed to have hurt her pride.

Helena's childhood was not the usual one. She displayed neurotic behavior from almost infancy by walking and talking in her sleep at four, exhibiting morbid tendencies, and loving the weird and fantastic. One of her earliest recollections was macabre in nature. At Ekaterinoslav, the countryside was said to be haunted with russalkas, green-haired nymphs living in willow trees along the river banks.

Whenever her nurses crossed her Helena threaten to have the russalkas tickle them to death. One day when Helena was four she was walking by the river bank with one of her nurses while a serf-boy of fourteen followed them and annoyed Helena by pulling her perambutor. She them imitated one of her father's roars threatening to have the russalkas tickle the boy to death. The boy being scarred, took to his heels over the river bank.

He was not seen again until fishermen discovered his dead body weeks later. Helena's family supposed he had accidentally stepped into a sand-pit whirlpool. But, the household surfs knew otherwise; they knew that the four-year-old girl had withdrawn her protection from the boy and delivered him over to the russalkas. It is significant that HPB should later accuse herself of homicide at the age of four, and the victim a boy ten years her senior.

Her memory of this incident is not surprising when view in perspective with other incidents of her childhood. Those who took care of her, besides her parents, were serfs and women who had learned and believed in superstitions. At the time Old Russia was a hothouse for superstitions. It was alive with tales of wolves, monsters, ghosts, leshes, brownies and goblins which were thought to manipulate human lives.. Even though the educated people accepted Russian Orthodoxy, along with its icons filling every room, priests and sacraments, their serfs still kept alive the Empire's pagan religion among themselves. The nurses of Helena, or Lelinka as they affectionately called her, believed these superstitions. Furthermore, Lelinka, being born in the seventh month of the year, was called a sedmitchka, a word that is difficult to translate but is connected with the number seven.

According to legend it was believed that supernatural beings could be placated or even controlled by people like Helena. On the night of her birthday the servants would carry the little girl around the house and stables while sprinkling holy water and repeating magical incantations to appease the domovoy, a goblin in the form of an old man who lived behind the stove and played tricks whenever displeased. Some thought each household had one. Supposedly such activities were not known by her mother or grandparents. If they did know about them, initially they refused to assign any importance to them until later.

It was not that the household servants thought that Helena was special, she showed it. She threw temper tantrums whenever she did not get her way. Finally, as she later recalled, the family members noticed her abnormalities and she was exorcised many times, but the rituals proved to no avail. Even scolding and punishments failed to change her outrageous unacceptable behavior. She fail to change as a child because, it seems, after the servant boy drown, plus the attention she was receiving, she felt she was powerful and invulnerable, and increasingly believed that mighty forces would carry out her wishes. A belief that seemed to permeate her life.

Her only happy childhood memories seem to be between six and twelve in her father's army camps. She was petted and spoiled as the enfant du regiment. She tyrannized over her father's orderlies whom she preferred to her female nurses and governesses. While being pampered she managed to pickup a smattering of knowledge about shamans and magic which she put to good use later in life.

After the death of their mother, at age 28, Helena with her sister and brother lived with their maternal grandparents. The grandmother, Helena Palovna de Fadeev, was a princess of the Dolgorkurov family, and a famous botanist. So from her mother and grandmother HPB inherited her characteristics of stubbornness, a fiery temper, and a disregard for social norms, all of which she amplified.

Helena's first love affair, at age 16, had been with Prince Alexander Galistin, cousin to the Viceroy of the Caucasus. At the time her grandfather served as his Imperial Councilor. Her interest in the Prince was because of his interest in occultism and magic. She later claimed the affair ended on the Prince's death, but he jilted her.

When 17 she married General Nicephore Blavatsky. There are several stories for this marriage, but it seems to be that a governess had scolded Helena for her temper tantrums, saying she could not even get an old man to marry her. To prove the governess wrong, and to divert attention from her unhappy affair with Prince Galistin she married Blavatsky, who she called old and about seventy or eighty. Actually he was around forty when they married and outlived her. After three unhappy months of a honeymoon, HPB managed to escape from the General's bodyguards and return to her grandfather who was not glad to see her. Her quickly shipped her off to her father, now retired and living near St. Peterburg, in charge of a maid and three men servants, all of whom she escaped. Her father traveled two thousand mile for nothing to meet her in Odessa. Helena was aboard an English bark, some say eloping with the skipper, sailing for Constantinople.

The years between 1848-1858 are known as Helena's vagabond years. The actual events are rather sketchy. The important thing to HPB, at least, was the two years she was in Tibet studying with the Lama. In 1856, according to her version, while in India she met a Lutheran minister who was with two mystics. None had passports or proper identification. The mystics did not enter Tibet, but the minister, although not permitted in the country, did travel a good way with the party to a mud hut. Helena wore a mysterious disguise supplied by a Tartar shaman. At a hut they met the Chief Lama who would not allow them admittance until Helena showed him a carnelian talisman given to her as a child by a high priest of a Calmuck tribe.

Within the hut, which was a great hall, they witnessed a reincarnation ceremony. A four-month-old baby laid on a carpet in the center of the hall. "Under the influence of the venerable lama, the baby rose to its feet and walked up and down the strip of carpet, repeating, `I am Buddha, I am the old Lama, I am his spirit in a new body.'" The three men accompanying Helena were terrified. The minister said his blood ran cold because the infant's eyes "seemed to search his very soul."

Some believe that HPB fabricated the reincarnation story because similar descriptions could be found in Abbe Huc's Recollection's of Travel in Tartary, Tibet and China Further they reasoned, her reason for the story was for psychological importance, showing she had traveled in Tibet where other men could not, and her talisman had admitted them to see the ritual; however, it must be remembered these were her critics.

When returning to Russia Helena agreed to return to Nicephore Blavatsky on the condition that she would be required to see him as little as possible, which she did. Also, at this time her grandfather Andrey Fadeyev was 71 and retiring from the Viceroy's Board of Caucasus. He usually retired early and Helena's two cousins, both unmarried, came to the Fadeyev home in Taiflis to entertain while seances were held. At the time the many of the Russian intellectuals were beginning to be fascinated with the paranormal. Helena made a big impression. Her cousin Sergei Witte wrote, "My cousin did not confine the demonstrations of her power to table rapping, evocation of spirits, and similar mediumistic hocus-pocus. On one occasion she caused a closed piano in an adjacent room to emit sounds as if invisible hands were playing upon it. This was done in my presence, at the insistence of one of the guests."

It seemed that the lady's activities included more than hold seances. A young baron from Estonia, Nicholas Meyendorff who was an ardent Spiritualist, found HPB delightful. Meyendorff was a closed friend of D. D. Home, in fact, he considered Home as a brother, so he confided his affair with HPB to Home. He insisted she divorced Blavatsky and marry him, or so the lady later claimed.

It seems Meyendorff later said Helena was unfaithful. From latter correspondence, in 1886, to her biographer it seems that Meyendorff was correct. About this time unexpectedly Agardi Metrovich appeared sometime in the early 1860's. He was an opera singer accompanied by a female singer who it seems was his wife. Metrovich had know Helena and her family previously. It seems he now wanted her back. He was almost sixty in 1861, and had about begged an engagement from the Italian Opera of Tiflis was one of the worst in Europe. He was on a decline in his career.

It is somewhat of a puzzle how Helena managed living with her husband, lover Meyendoroff, and Metrovich at the same time while holding seances in her grandfather's home. But, the fact is that she became pregnant and a child was born. The only existence of the child's birth date is on a passport dated August 23 "(Old Style)" 1862. It designated him as an infant, leaving speculation he was born in 1862, or late 1861. His name was Yuri, and he was deformed.

He was born in the settlement of Ozurgety which had a military surgeon. Helena settled there buying a house to escape the scandal her pregnancy had caused in Tiflis. All men she knew denied fathering the child, but Blavatsky continued her monthly allowance. Helena referred to him as "the poor crippled child," while Meyendorff's relatives said he had a hunchback. Whether the handicap resulted from a birth defect or an accident cause by the military physician unaccustomed delivering babies is not known.

After the birth Helena suffered, or arranged, a nervous breakdown. The significance of which is that she describes a dual personality:

"When awake and myself, I remembered well who I was in my second capacity, and what I had been and was doing. When someone else, i.e., the personage I became, I know I had no idea of who was H. P. Blavatsky! I was in another far-off country, a total different individuality from myself, and had no connection at all with my actual life."

Yuri was about five years when Helena took him Bologna trying to help him. It is known that Metrovitch accompany them. But, the journey proved fruitless and the child died. They buried him in a small town in Southern Russia under Metrovitch's name; the latter saying that "he did not care."

Even though Helena had reason to detest Russia, she could not bury her son on foreign soil. This among other things illustrated that she dearly loved the child. It had been difficult for her to keep the child, and easier for her to have abandoned him as an orphan, but this she did not do. She did everything she could for him. Although later she denied he was her child. When taking him to visit her father, she wrote that her father suspected her of wrongful sexual conduct and she produced evidence from two doctors that she was unable to bare children. Perhaps she did this more for Yuri's sake than her own, because, it is thought, she could not bear for anyone to think ill of her son. She also claimed Yuri was an illegitimate child of Meyendorff and a friend of hers. The stories she told got so tangled that her biographer. Alfred Sinnett, omitted Yuri altogether.

However, the child seems an important factor in her life; otherwise, why would she have cared for him approximately five years? Her career in the paranormal was of great concern to her. Factors concerning the child outweighed this. Yuri, ironically, resembled the little hunchback invisible which she had played with in her own childhood. She, herself, described Yuri as "the only being who made life worth living, a being whom I loved according to the phraseology of Hamlet as `forty thousand fathers and brothers will never love their children and sisters.'" Later she wrote to Metrovitch, "'I loved one man deeply but still more I love occult science,' but the one she loved `more than anything else in all the world,' or anything, was Yuri."

It was later after Yuri's death that Helena confided in writing to her cousin Nadyezha Fadeyev of her rejection of Christianity, "the Russian Orthodox god had died for her on the day of Yuri's death." Although, she had never been at peace with Christianity, "there were moments when I believed deeply that sins can be remitted by the Church, and that the blood of Christ has redeemed me, together with the whole race of Adam." Yet it should be noted toward the end of Helena's life, as with so many others, the encroachment of fragments of an earlier religious experience are seen. Increasingly in her writings she used words like the Holy Cause, with their ecclesiastical flavor, phrases reminiscent of the childhood religion which she had rebelled against all of her life. She was humbling her pride to join the host of other rebel spirits who creep back to the sanctity of the Holy Church.

She even admitted when in Paris she had in secrecy slipped off to the Russian Cathedral. In secrecy was correct, because even though in her heart toward the end her life her confidence in her Mahatmas and the occult may have decrease or fallen away, in public her concern was to insure the realty of her Masters Morya and Koot Hoomi and all the hierarchy for her followers. She apologized for the mistakes and misrepresentations in her works but not for the Masters who had dictated her books. The faults of the books she laid on others.

After 1869 both the Fadeyev and Witte families had dwindled. Adey Fadeyev had died at 81. The families pooled their assets and moved to Odessa where Helena and Metrovitch joined them. It was tough going for everyone, but Helena, in her flighty manner, tried starting several small businesses, but in the perilous times they all failed. Metrovitch still trying to make a comeback got an engagement with the Italian opera of Cairo, so he and Helena sailed for Egypt.

It was during their voyage that Metrovitch lost his life in an explosion of gunpowder and fireworks which the ship was carrying. Helena was one of seventeen passengers out of 400 which survived. She latter said Metrovitch died trying to save her life, although there are other versions of his death which are not connected with the explosion at all. Anyway Helena thought that Metrovitch would want her to go on. She went to Alexandria with help of the Greek government funds.

It is thought she buried Metrovitch's remains there, and then proceeded to Cairo when she became a medium by teaming up with another woman. The relationship in Cairo lasted for some time, then both went back to Odessa. However, Russia did not provide the stimulation which Helena longed for, and she tired of quarreling with her aunts whom she said did not understand her. She saw other people and then went to Paris. It was there she heard of the enthusiasm for Spiritualism that was spreading in the United States. She almost immediately sailed, saying that it was "my mysterious Hindu" that ordered her "to embark for North America, which I did without protesting."

She did not travel first class though. On the dock at Le Havre she by chance met a German peasant and her children who had been sold bogus tickets. Helena gave the woman and children her deluxe passage and traveled herself in steerage because that was all she could then afford. She, like millions of other poor emigrants, and rebellious aristocrats traveled to America, the land of opportunity and hope. It was her second chance.

As with thousands of other immigrants Helena's second chance did not come easy, but she was determined to obtain it. It was July, 1873 when she reached New York. As did other single women, she first lodged in a home for woman that was a tenement house that had be made into a cooperative by the 65 occupants. The landlord introduced Helena to the owners of a shirt-and-collar factory where she tried selling elaborate designs to the owners. The designs were good but she was bad at selling, so it was Odessa all over again.

HPB was penniless but said that she had wrote home to her relatives for money and expected to receive it from the Russian Council at anytime. This is how she survived in the home. She managed to divide the home into two groups, those not liking her and those that did. She entertained the latter group with stories of her life and by holding seances on Sunday nights. This seemed to work until a newspaper took a dislike to her and accused her of using hashish and opium.

Soon after this her father died and she received $500 of her modest inheritance which went fast. She moved into a smart hotel and began to live Bohemian again in a cooperate flat with three journalists, two men and another woman. Then a new phenomenon appeared. Ordinary photographs left in a wooden box overnight were found in the morning to be tinted with water colors by spirits. Although impressive, the others occupants became skeptical of HPB's powers. Then one night they watched the Madame leave her room in night clothes, carrying paint and brushes to assist the spirits.

Following this HPB worked whenever she could, one job was in a sweatshop making artificial flowers, and accepting charity from whomever gave it. This continued until June, 1874 when she met Clementine Jerebko and her husband who has just arrived from Caucasus. She had known them both in Russia. The Jerebkos had just bought farmland on Long Island and HPB agreed to join in the adventure by buying in at $1,000. By the end of the first month all parties knew it was a disastrous decision. Clementine agreed to return Helena's money after the farm been sold by auction, but three days later she and her husband disappeared. Helena tried pursuing them by hiring a creditable law firm which took the case to court.

The next important event in her life occurred ten days after Henry Steele Olcott's first article on the Eddy seances appeared in New York, on October 14, 1874, when she introduced herself to Olcott at the remote Chittenden, Vermont farm. Immediately she claimed to be a spiritualist who had spend fifteen years in the cult, but it soon became apparent that she had come to see Olcott.

During the next ten days Helena exhibited her techniques. Her seances accompanied those of the Eddy Brothers. Although Olcott was not a Spiritualist, he had a keen interest in the phenomena. Each night the seance began at ten minutes to seven. The procession of apparitions began drifting in and out of the Eddy cabinet on the schedule of every one to five minutes.

The appearances of Honto and the Indians were slightly dim compared to Madame Blavatsky's peopled apparitions. "Hassan Aga," the wealthy merchant wearing a black Astarkhan cap and tasseled hood who said three times he had a secret to revel, but never did; "Safer Ali Bak," the man that guarded Helena for Nicephore Blavatsky in Erivan, now appearing as a Kurd warrior carrying a feathered spear; a Circassian noukar who bowed, smiled and said, "Tchock yachtchi (all right); a giant muscular black man in white-and-gold-horned headdress, a conjurer who she had met in Africa.

Also, there were less exotic phantoms such as an old woman in a babushka, whom Helena said was Vera's nurse; and the portly man in a black evening suit and frilled white shirt, around whose neck hung a Greek cross of St. Anne suspended by a red moiré ribbon with two black stripes.

"Are you my father?" she asked, confessing later that she was trembling.

The apparition approached her and stopped, "Djadja," he answered reproachfully.

HPB knew that Olcott was enthused with her performance, although his articles about her would not be published for several weeks, she decided much could be achieved in the meantime. She with another medium rushed back to New York. When Olcott mentioned putting his collection of articles that appeared in the Graphic into a book she volunteered to translate them into Russian for the Psychisen Studien or some other Russian journal. Olcott was thrilled with the idea.

She did like Olcott, but still considered him childish and gullible. She knew, even though she had warned him that William Eddy's spooks were not necessarily proof of spirit entities, that Olcott was "in love with the spirits," as she put it. Nevertheless, they continued working together. HPB had feelings for Olcott, but they were not mutually shared at first. Olcott considered her androgynous. He just did not see her as an attractive sexual person, even though she was in her earthly, sensual manner.

[link to www.crystalinks.com]
Anonymous Coward
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11/17/2008 02:26 PM
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Re: HELENA PETROVNA BLAVATSKY
Why am I supposed to believe it when people like Blavatsky, Alice Bailey, etc... claim to have the ability to channel?

Occam's Razor suggests that they are, in fact, faking these abilities for their own self-serving interests. That recent fake alien channeler seems to support my theory.
Anonymous Coward
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11/17/2008 02:30 PM
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Re: HELENA PETROVNA BLAVATSKY
much of her information is accurate
whether it was given to her or "channelled"
perhaps that's another way of protecting sources
Anonymous Coward
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11/17/2008 02:39 PM
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Re: HELENA PETROVNA BLAVATSKY
Rare photograph of Blavatsky posing with the spirits of the Mahatmas Kuthumi, Morya and Count St Germaine, who founded the Theosophical Society.
[link to www.exopoliticsinstitute.org]

(these spirits were visible only to the clairvoyant HPB when the photograph was taken).
Xare

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11/17/2008 02:39 PM
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Re: HELENA PETROVNA BLAVATSKY
faking these abilities for their own self-serving interests.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 533607




You should question if her acts are totally self serving.

Luciferians will tell you that they are Selfish people. But should you believe them ?

What they do is for the Collective, its beyond selfishness.

Almost Altruistic !
Anonymous Coward
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11/17/2008 02:39 PM
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Re: HELENA PETROVNA BLAVATSKY
much of her information is accurate
whether it was given to her or "channelled"
perhaps that's another way of protecting sources
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 509737


Regardless, trust becomes an issue. To protect sources is fine, just say you can not reveal them. For her to portray herself as having magical powers is a very suspicious way of getting across this information.
A Concerned Canadian

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11/17/2008 02:42 PM
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Re: HELENA PETROVNA BLAVATSKY
Rare photograph of Blavatsky posing with the spirits of the Mahatmas Kuthumi, Morya and Count St Germaine, who founded the Theosophical Society.
[link to www.exopoliticsinstitute.org]

(these spirits were visible only to the clairvoyant HPB when the photograph was taken).
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 542303

The dude on her left, my right. looks like he is giving the devil horns sign.
Anonymous Coward
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11/17/2008 02:42 PM
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Re: HELENA PETROVNA BLAVATSKY
She was a liar, deceiver and a Satanist

Theosophy was started by the Jesuits. The main jesuit was Chardin.
Frigg Stuyvesant

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11/17/2008 02:46 PM
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Re: HELENA PETROVNA BLAVATSKY
faking these abilities for their own self-serving interests.




You should question if her acts are totally self serving.

Luciferians will tell you that they are Selfish people. But should you believe them ?

What they do is for the Collective, its beyond selfishness.

Almost Altruistic !
 Quoting: Xare



She was caught several times outright rigging seances.Caught!

Thread: Anybody been to the Lucis Trust website? New members check it out


There is plenty to ponder about your dubious selfless prophets on that thread.Read it if you feel like it and then come back and tell more about the collective good these types are up to. moloch


Genocide and Deicide(God kill)aren't even remotely altruistic.IMO
Cui Bono?
Anonymous Coward
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11/17/2008 02:47 PM
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Re: HELENA PETROVNA BLAVATSKY
Rare photograph of Blavatsky posing with the spirits of the Mahatmas Kuthumi, Morya and Count St Germaine, who founded the Theosophical Society.
[link to www.exopoliticsinstitute.org]

(these spirits were visible only to the clairvoyant HPB when the photograph was taken).
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 542303


You mean, visibile only to the clairvoyant, and the camera, which was ruled by physical law, right?

So were the spirits there in the flesh to be photographed? If so, why don't clairvoyants perform similar feats on live television?
Anonymous Coward
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11/17/2008 02:50 PM
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Re: HELENA PETROVNA BLAVATSKY
Frigg, what is that picture? Got any sources or further reading that is more reliable than a glp thread? Although i admit it's an awesome thread.
Frigg Stuyvesant

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11/17/2008 02:52 PM
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Re: HELENA PETROVNA BLAVATSKY
Frigg, what is that picture? Got any sources or further reading that is more reliable than a glp thread? Although i admit it's an awesome thread.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 533607

It was my thread and it is loaded with sources and quotes directly from the mouths of many of these "benevolent" types.A real eye opener!

I ganked that pic off the Internet..It was so appropriate to many new age discussions..and it's creeepy..

P.S. I wouldn't share any HOT(dangerous)sources on the web.That would be irresponsible of me to say the least.
Cui Bono?
Anonymous Coward
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11/17/2008 03:05 PM
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Re: HELENA PETROVNA BLAVATSKY
I guess it's hard for people to defend Blavatsky, but any takers? I'd love to hear some answers to my above questions. What's weird is that people can so easily overlook areas where she was wrong, or even dangerous, but accept the wackiest parts of her ideas, things like channeling and seances.

I mean sure, it sounds fun, but would I believe in it when one of the early sources is HP Blavatsky? No.
Anonymous Coward
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11/17/2008 03:13 PM
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Re: HELENA PETROVNA BLAVATSKY
Rare photograph of Blavatsky posing with the spirits of the Mahatmas Kuthumi, Morya and Count St Germaine, who founded the Theosophical Society.
[link to www.exopoliticsinstitute.org]

(these spirits were visible only to the clairvoyant HPB when the photograph was taken).


You mean, visibile only to the clairvoyant, and the camera, which was ruled by physical law, right?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 533607


You may or may not be aware that people throughout the world have taken photos of friends and relatives where another figure appeared on the developed film that was not there at the time. This was a spirit (sometimes of a deceased relative).
So were the spirits there in the flesh to be photographed?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 533607

Yes. They posed for an audience of Theosophists.
If so, why don't clairvoyants perform similar feats on live television?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 533607

Because TV cameras do not usually record the images of spirits. Only cameras do. However, there are cases of spirits caught by CCTV because they presumably momentarily materialized.

Why do they not perform? There are many reasons. Firstly, the bias of TV producers means they would not get invited in the first place! And there is REAL prejudice out there in TV land. Secondly, even genuine clairvoyants don't like putting themselves in a test situation where they might fail - especially under conditions where it is very improbable that the TV camera would detect the spirits they see around them.
Anonymous Coward
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11/17/2008 03:14 PM
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Re: HELENA PETROVNA BLAVATSKY
bump
Anonymous Coward
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11/17/2008 03:14 PM
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Re: HELENA PETROVNA BLAVATSKY
She was a liar, deceiver and a Satanist

Theosophy was started by the Jesuits. The main jesuit was Chardin.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 552122


Total B.S. Blavatsky hated Jesuits.
Jdd

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11/17/2008 03:17 PM
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Re: HELENA PETROVNA BLAVATSKY
You can measure the degree to which Blavatsky's philosophy is "off" -- contrived, false, incorrect nonsense -- by comparing it to the sastra (scriptures) she claims it is based upon -- the Vedas. HPB took a spoonful of Absolute Truth, mixed it in with western concepts, and created her own little religion.

If you want the 'straight sauce', go straight to the Vedas. Don't waste your time with anyone outside of the pure disciplic succession who is re-interpreting and re-packaging. The pure, unadulterated stuff is right there, easily accessible.
Anonymous Coward
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11/17/2008 03:18 PM
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Re: HELENA PETROVNA BLAVATSKY
Nor was Blavatsky a liar. If you refer to the Hodgson Report, this was completely debunked and discredited. For example see:
[link to www.theosociety.org]
Anonymous Coward
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11/17/2008 03:19 PM
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Re: HELENA PETROVNA BLAVATSKY
She was a liar, deceiver and a Satanist

Theosophy was started by the Jesuits. The main jesuit was Chardin.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 552122

bsflag
Anonymous Coward
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11/17/2008 03:20 PM
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Re: HELENA PETROVNA BLAVATSKY
She also kept a stuffed monkey in the corner of her 'room'.

Crazy bitch.
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11/17/2008 03:22 PM
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Re: HELENA PETROVNA BLAVATSKY
You can measure the degree to which Blavatsky's philosophy is "off" -- contrived, false, incorrect nonsense -- by comparing it to the sastra (scriptures) she claims it is based upon -- the Vedas. HPB took a spoonful of Absolute Truth, mixed it in with western concepts, and created her own little religion.
 Quoting: Jdd

Not at all. She related every religion. She did not mix Western concepts into it. Instead she related Western ideas to Eastern ideas. Your way of looking at her work is totally jaundiced and inaccurate.
If you want the 'straight sauce', go straight to the Vedas. Don't waste your time with anyone outside of the pure disciplic succession who is re-interpreting and re-packaging. The pure, unadulterated stuff is right there, easily accessible.
 Quoting: Jdd

So it is in Theosophy. Only related to other religions as well.
Anonymous Coward
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11/17/2008 03:23 PM
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Re: HELENA PETROVNA BLAVATSKY
Because TV cameras do not usually record the images of spirits. Only cameras do. However, there are cases of spirits caught by CCTV because they presumably momentarily materialized.

Why do they not perform? There are many reasons. Firstly, the bias of TV producers means they would not get invited in the first place! And there is REAL prejudice out there in TV land. Secondly, even genuine clairvoyants don't like putting themselves in a test situation where they might fail - especially under conditions where it is very improbable that the TV camera would detect the spirits they see around them.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 542303


I'm sure scientific tests have not been done to prove why they would appear on one type of film and not another, but I would be interested to know. Have you ever seen someone summon a spirit like this?

Your argument about the tv producers holding back this knowledge is BS. We have YouTube now, and any given clairvoyant could summon and summon and summon again until they capture the image on a webcam or whatever device might work. Why aren't they doing this? I see two possibilities: one, they can not summon spirits. Two, they do not want to expose their powers, which makes them suspect to questions of why they would keep this proof hidden from scientists and people who could study and understand it.

Feel free to tell me your experiences. I'd like to learn more.
Anonymous Coward
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11/17/2008 03:24 PM
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Re: HELENA PETROVNA BLAVATSKY
She also kept a stuffed monkey in the corner of her 'room'.

Crazy bitch.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 480547

Lots of Victorians kept stuffed animals in their rooms. Learn some history about customs before exposing your ignorance here with such silly comments.
Anonymous Coward
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11/17/2008 03:34 PM
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Re: HELENA PETROVNA BLAVATSKY
Because TV cameras do not usually record the images of spirits. Only cameras do. However, there are cases of spirits caught by CCTV because they presumably momentarily materialized.

Why do they not perform? There are many reasons. Firstly, the bias of TV producers means they would not get invited in the first place! And there is REAL prejudice out there in TV land. Secondly, even genuine clairvoyants don't like putting themselves in a test situation where they might fail - especially under conditions where it is very improbable that the TV camera would detect the spirits they see around them.


I'm sure scientific tests have not been done to prove why they would appear on one type of film and not another, but I would be interested to know. Have you ever seen someone summon a spirit like this?

Your argument about the tv producers holding back this knowledge is BS.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 533607

No it is not. You are mixing TV with YouTube, which is not the same. You evidently don't know much about the prejudices towards the paranormal amongst TV producers. Well, I DO.
We have YouTube now, and any given clairvoyant could summon and summon and summon again until they capture the image on a webcam or whatever device might work.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 533607

It rarely works that way. You obviously know little about how clairvoyance works. It;s spontaneous and cannot be turned on and off.
Why aren't they doing this?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 533607

Because their clairvoyance is not something that have complete control over.
I see two possibilities: one, they can not summon spirits. Two, they do not want to expose their powers, which makes them suspect to questions of why they would keep this proof hidden from scientists and people who could study and understand it.

Feel free to tell me your experiences. I'd like to learn more.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 533607

Firstly, clairvoyants NEVER summon spirits. That's another misunderstanding. Secondly, from bitter experience with sceptics who will NEVER believe the evidence even when it stares them in the face, they know that it is simply not worth the trouble. Scientists CANNOT in principle understand clairvoyance because it is an ability that falls outside the scientific paradigm of reality. I speak as someone who is regarded in many parts of the world as the leading authority on a certain form of remote-viewing (three books published).
Anonymous Coward
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11/17/2008 05:09 PM
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Re: HELENA PETROVNA BLAVATSKY
Why not film each spontaneous session until you have footage? I still don't understand why I can't see this in a video right now if it works. As I said, anyone can upload a video to YouTube at any time. Someone believes that Blavatsky was able to do it in that photo, why isn't an entire session documented?

Isn't the purpose of this information to bring knowledge and light into the world? How can this happen if the efforts and means are kept under wraps in an age where information can be shared so freely?

Again, I would use Occam's Razor to deduce that Blavatsky isn't actually sitting with spirits in that picture, looks more like an effect. Until some real proof is provided for her "powers" my question remains: Why should I believe Blavatsky's claims about channeling knowledge and conducting seances without proof? Isn't this the same as believing that a man in the sky told people to write the Bible?
Anonymous Coward
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11/17/2008 05:20 PM
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Re: HELENA PETROVNA BLAVATSKY
Psychic portraits of Blavatsky's mentor Kuthumi:
[link to images.google.com]
Notice how closely they match that in the rare photo over 100 years old that I posted earlier. If you argue than everyone of these psychic artists or clairvoyants saw that old pic and copied the face, then I will simply laugh at you. I enquired amongst senior Theosophists in Britain and the USA about the pic and they all said they had never seen it before.
Anonymous Coward
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11/17/2008 05:31 PM
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Re: HELENA PETROVNA BLAVATSKY
It took me a while to learn what a psychic portrait is. Those drawings do indeed look similar to the figure on the left. I am at a loss as to what this means though. Can you explain it to me? I don't think there is going to be any need for you to "laugh at me," unless you just want to be a dick.

Also, if you would answer my questions from above I would appreciate it.
Anonymous Coward
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11/17/2008 05:54 PM
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Re: HELENA PETROVNA BLAVATSKY
bump
Anonymous Coward
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11/17/2008 06:47 PM
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Re: HELENA PETROVNA BLAVATSKY
So, there is NO ONE willing to offer proof that Blavatsky was able to perform the acts she claimed, like channeling writings?

I know her ideas were misconstrued by a bunch of violent fascists during WWII, but what is there that is good in these writings? Why do they survive and seem to inspire others?

In what was is believing Blavatsky any different than having faith in God or Jesus?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 552568
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11/17/2008 08:22 PM
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Re: HELENA PETROVNA BLAVATSKY
I really like her, enjoyed the stories and her books... I believe her 100%. No I ain't going to prove anything to people so sided. I do not care what you think. I like her and benefited very much from her works and her associates..

Prove it to yourself if you want, but no one can substantiate anything about a dead person..... so you will think you win...but you really lose ... for she brought new teachings to the world that may not have come other ways.

I wished i could have met her and travled with her!!!!!!!!!!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 552568
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11/17/2008 08:23 PM
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Re: HELENA PETROVNA BLAVATSKY
bump





GLP