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WOULD YOUR "NEWER" CAR BE EMP SURVIVABLE?

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 501898
United States
11/18/2008 10:20 AM
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WOULD YOUR "NEWER" CAR BE EMP SURVIVABLE?
I brought this up in the car thread on here and someone suggested I start a whole new thread. We all konw EMP's are a real thing. I read, I think on here, that cars built before the mid 70's could be re-vamped after an EMP attack, by replacing things like the fried spark plugs, and other such things you can easily keep on hand. How you would get gas afterwards, however, is another thing altogether. But what about those who have cars built after the mid-70's? So much of a car's engine has been built on high-tech electronics, that I'm guessing no amound of "on-hand" replacement parts is going to get them running again. And considering that most people in the states have newer cars, we'd pretty much all be screwed. Tnoughts? I'll be back in a bit.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 548758
United States
11/18/2008 10:27 AM
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Re: WOULD YOUR "NEWER" CAR BE EMP SURVIVABLE?
the whole car would be fried...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 527834
United Kingdom
11/18/2008 11:23 AM
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Re: WOULD YOUR "NEWER" CAR BE EMP SURVIVABLE?
If you buried A bicycle in a plastic bag, that may survive (lamps aside). Obviously the rubber tyres might perish too, but then the Vietcong used bikes quite effectively against a superpower, on 10,000 mile network of dodgy roads and jungle trails.

They ran the bikes on the rims (no tyres) so it can be done!

As for EMP (neutron bomb), the pulse would be quite localised (1 square mile), the radiation would kill for much greater distances. If you could survive ground 0 for 24 hours there would be plenty of serviceable autos to pick from, just a short ride away.

Take Alex Jones with a grain of salt ;-)
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 501898
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11/18/2008 11:25 AM
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Re: WOULD YOUR "NEWER" CAR BE EMP SURVIVABLE?
Yes, but what I'm talking about is an EMP without the bomb. It is possible to detonate and EMP high up in the atmosphere with the only effects of being frying of all electrical equpiment. There would be no radiation, etc.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 501898
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11/18/2008 11:27 AM
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Re: WOULD YOUR "NEWER" CAR BE EMP SURVIVABLE?
I'm also talking a multi location EMP throughout the country, so that most areas would be affected. I wouldn't put it past the PTB to pull a stunt like this.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 514298
Canada
11/18/2008 11:28 AM
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Re: WOULD YOUR "NEWER" CAR BE EMP SURVIVABLE?
Dont worry EMP resistant or not, should there be such an event there will be no gasoline, money or open roads
19.47™
User ID: 534000
United Kingdom
11/18/2008 11:32 AM
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Re: WOULD YOUR "NEWER" CAR BE EMP SURVIVABLE?
Well I think that you might have trouble fitting a car into anything less than an industrial sized microwave. But my understanding is that regular sized ones are very popular with reporters in war zones. Because they protect their cameras etc from EMP with the faraday cage. I guess you could make a big one out of copper screen, I think there was one in that film Enemy of the State.
flatland
User ID: 550333
Canada
11/18/2008 11:32 AM
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Re: WOULD YOUR "NEWER" CAR BE EMP SURVIVABLE?
Yes, but what I'm talking about is an EMP without the bomb. It is possible to detonate and EMP high up in the atmosphere with the only effects of being frying of all electrical equpiment. There would be no radiation, etc.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 501898

a sufficiently large atmospheric detonation would fry every chip within the line of site and render most if not all cars inoperable ....good luck
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 330521
Netherlands
11/18/2008 11:41 AM
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Re: WOULD YOUR "NEWER" CAR BE EMP SURVIVABLE?
the whole car would be fried...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 548758


Ask Joerg Haider.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 553773
Croatia
11/18/2008 11:52 AM
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Re: WOULD YOUR "NEWER" CAR BE EMP SURVIVABLE?
EMP does not pass trough metal objects etc. car hubs, metal doors.

If you want some electronic device protected just put it in some metal container.
Even aluminium foil should work but i am not sure because it's very thin.

in general you need conductive material to protect devices from EMP attack.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 551743
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11/18/2008 11:52 AM
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Re: WOULD YOUR "NEWER" CAR BE EMP SURVIVABLE?
Only an older car with no computer in it ,no electric start, will take an EMP pulse.

My friend bought a Russian Hugo a few years ago that has a crank start
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 501898
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11/18/2008 11:53 AM
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Re: WOULD YOUR "NEWER" CAR BE EMP SURVIVABLE?
Yes, but what I'm talking about is an EMP without the bomb. It is possible to detonate and EMP high up in the atmosphere with the only effects of being frying of all electrical equpiment. There would be no radiation, etc.

a sufficiently large atmospheric detonation would fry every chip within the line of site and render most if not all cars inoperable ....good luck
 Quoting: flatland 550333

Did you ever see Jericho? I know it was just a TV show, but they addressed the issue on the show. The newer cars I think were undrivable, but the older cars were able to be refitted with parts that had been fried. Seems as if the Faraday cage is the only way to go, but again, not too many people can afford to build or have one of those things. Some things I've read say yes, older cars can be hotwired to start or have certain things replaced to make them run, other places say no.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 553809
United States
11/18/2008 12:17 PM
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Re: WOULD YOUR "NEWER" CAR BE EMP SURVIVABLE?
There is a 50% percent change or thereabouts of your car working or not, same goes with handheld things like radios. There was a report done, instead of all this guessing.
Cunning_linguist

User ID: 552663
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11/18/2008 12:20 PM
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Re: WOULD YOUR "NEWER" CAR BE EMP SURVIVABLE?
An airblast EMP could take out half the country.

Nothing made after 1985 would work. Diesels will be easier to get going than gas powered cars.
De Bunker Hiding in a Bunker.
19.47™
User ID: 534000
United Kingdom
11/18/2008 12:25 PM
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Re: WOULD YOUR "NEWER" CAR BE EMP SURVIVABLE?
I'd say get bikes for your family. But make sure you get the strong (used on motorcycles) type padlocks, because they will become very valuable.

Hang onto those GM shares, their could be a revival of the auto industry!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 543927
Netherlands
11/18/2008 12:29 PM
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Re: WOULD YOUR "NEWER" CAR BE EMP SURVIVABLE?
Modern cars have electronically controlled fuel injection, aside from that also 'gadgets' such as abs, traction control, computer controlled suspension etc.

If you want to reduce the risks from an emp attack, I think it would be better to buy a classic car from the 50s or 60s.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 553773
Croatia
11/18/2008 12:42 PM
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Re: WOULD YOUR "NEWER" CAR BE EMP SURVIVABLE?
before we discuss how to protect car from EMP strike we need to see what EMP is and what it can affect.

EMP (ElectroMagnetic Pulse) is high energy pulse that can damage electronic components, by inducing high current in coils, ressistors, and transistors.

EMP pulse is very similar to cell phone signals and tv signals only difference is it has very high power and it's very short in duration.

So as you know cell phone signals diminishes as you enter tunnel or a cave because moisture in walls of cave or tunnel absorb all or very high part of Electromagnetic signal.
Moisture is conductive as it's metals that why it absorbs signals.
Same is valid for EMP signals.


Now lets talk about cars.
Only important part in car that are vulnerable is ignition computer, it also controls ignition sparks when you drive. So without him car would not start and if you somehow menage to start it will not work because computer is faulty.

If you want to protect car computer from EMP strike simply put him in metal container. Also you my connect negative from the car battery on metal container for better protection.
All other parts in car are not essential for car to run, like mph clock, car radio, coils for turn lights, coils for high beams etc.


Only problem that may be are ignition coil and alternator but car can start without ignition coil by connecting positive and negative from car battery direct on ignition motor (mind the polarity).


There is small chance that alternator could sustain some damage, if so your car will run but it will drain car battery and when that happens it will stop.

I hope i helped someone.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 553818
United States
11/18/2008 12:56 PM
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Re: WOULD YOUR "NEWER" CAR BE EMP SURVIVABLE?
So in other words my restored 1938 all fuel John Deere tractor will still run.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 543927
Netherlands
11/18/2008 12:58 PM
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Re: WOULD YOUR "NEWER" CAR BE EMP SURVIVABLE?
So in other words my restored 1938 all fuel John Deere tractor will still run.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 553818

lol, so will my horse and wagon.
Enigma

User ID: 70637
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11/18/2008 02:32 PM
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Re: WOULD YOUR "NEWER" CAR BE EMP SURVIVABLE?
So in other words my restored 1938 all fuel John Deere tractor will still run.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 553818



maybe... better have an extra coil or magneto on hand...

my 2006 toyota may or may not... hard to say... but my 1983 K5 blazer with 6.2 diesel most definately will run... ( same engine as a HMMVV)

I also have an older diesel school bus that will run, and my Kubota tractor as well...
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 501898
United States
11/18/2008 04:17 PM
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Re: WOULD YOUR "NEWER" CAR BE EMP SURVIVABLE?
bump
Leo****
User ID: 89830
Sweden
11/18/2008 05:23 PM
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Re: WOULD YOUR "NEWER" CAR BE EMP SURVIVABLE?
...

Only problem that may be are ignition coil and alternator but car can start without ignition coil by connecting positive and negative from car battery direct on ignition motor (mind the polarity).
...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 553773


Hmmm... do you have any idea whatsoever about the systems you are mentioning? "Ignition motor"... if you mean the starter, why would that help if the high voltage circuits were blown?

Never mind the fact that the engine control system would be toast if the car was produced any later than, say, the early 1980's.

This is very easy. "Newer cars" would be rendered permanently useless, instantly, without a supply of pretty advanced spare electronic components and a major overhaul.

Some vintage vehicles might become resurrected relatively easily as said but this would be a rare occurrence in the overall picture.

As mentioned, bikes and horses will become immensely valuable locally/regionally in such a future as means of transportation.

/L
Enigma

User ID: 70637
United States
11/18/2008 05:31 PM
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Re: WOULD YOUR "NEWER" CAR BE EMP SURVIVABLE?
who knows? we never had one before...
James Dean
User ID: 587696
United States
01/06/2009 11:50 PM
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Re: WOULD YOUR "NEWER" CAR BE EMP SURVIVABLE?
All cars live in a metal cage. Any car grounded to the earth, for example by a metal stake and a jumper cable connecting the chassis and the stake, probable would be drivable later. Cars with no ground could be damaged. The EMP research by US Law Enforcement has established guide-lines for deploying EMP weapons, however most proposed weapons to disable the ignition systems were rejected as unreliable or useless due to the natural shielding of the auto chassis. Another consideration is that EMP may have a large voltage but almost NO current. Large voltages with no current can not travel very far. Often, the interference within the engine compartment of a car is subjected to many times the EMR of an EMP. As such, the modules are designed to withstand EMRs. The detonation would have to be VERY close and intense to knock them out. It would probable be advisable to reboot them before attempting to use them.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 568001
United States
01/07/2009 12:01 AM
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Re: WOULD YOUR "NEWER" CAR BE EMP SURVIVABLE?
Best thing to do is get an old Chevy Suburban w/4-speed transmission and a few spare starters/alternators (you'll have to shield the spare parts as best you can before the blast), build a 383 stroker motor (a 350 block with a 400 crank, not the Mopar version), run it with an HEI ignition to begin with but after the EMP swap out the distributor with a points-type ignition or run a points-type ignition to from the beginning. You should be able to file the points after the blast and it will still run--you may have to bolt in your spare alternator and if you have time the spare starter.
falldown

User ID: 520470
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01/07/2009 12:38 AM
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Re: WOULD YOUR "NEWER" CAR BE EMP SURVIVABLE?
Hmm...you guys need to read up on EMP a little more.

First, it's not like lightning, grounding can weaken EMP protection. Also, the faraday cage idea works, but with some considerations, because if you do it wrong, you can actually have a structure that will "pulse" a focused beam through the cage (the explanations a little too complicated for a quick description).

The downside of that focused pulse isn't just wrecking the equipment, you'll end up cooking yourself if you're in the cage at the time. EMP isn't particularly dangerous to people, but if it's focused, you just microwaved yourself.

Cars aren't actually that much of a problem, either. They've "emp'd" a few of them over the years, on purpose and otherwise. When the US military was testing all sorts of nukes and knocking out banks and all sorts of other equipment, those folks still drove home afterwards.

Obviously, it would be a good idea not to take chances and have a few key parts well protected in storage. Also, older cars will do better, because they have fewer electronics. But probably the most important thing would be to get a car with a nice solid metal body. A vette isn't going to protect the electronics, neither is your average Saturn, plastic-bodied car.

Grounding the car would actually do more damage...the reason they're safe is because they have a free-floating ground at the battery terminal. It's kind of like having a shock absorber, and the metal body acts as a faraday cage.

--------------

Oh, and this is unrelated, but good to know. When the EMP goes off, anything metal has the potential to turn into a powerful radio transmitter (size/shape matters). That means there's a good chance, anything metal in contact with volatile substances has the potential of triggering.

That ammo box you always forget to close, powder containers, metal fuel containers. Generally, anything under around 30 inches in size should be reasonably safe...but that's no guarantee.

When they were testing those nukes back in the day, they had to remove the claymores from their security protocols, because they'd go off.
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"He who does not understand your silence will probably not understand your words." ~Elbert Hubbard
beets
User ID: 682559
Canada
05/19/2009 09:55 AM
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Re: WOULD YOUR "NEWER" CAR BE EMP SURVIVABLE?
Oh guys you are forgetting one thing, as your driving around. What are going to drink...your going to need water. The hell with the car....there will be so much stuff going on, the last thing your going to want, is too stick out from everyone else and get skinny like everyone else, but have your Aladden cave.
Andromeda

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05/19/2009 09:58 AM
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Re: WOULD YOUR "NEWER" CAR BE EMP SURVIVABLE?
If there were an EMP, I think there would be worse problems than driving.

But you could always ground the frame and steel panels and electrical circults of your car, in effect turning it into a faraday cage. That would provide some protection.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 570793
United States
05/19/2009 10:02 AM
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Re: WOULD YOUR "NEWER" CAR BE EMP SURVIVABLE?
So in other words my restored 1938 all fuel John Deere tractor will still run.



maybe... better have an extra coil or magneto on hand...

my 2006 toyota may or may not... hard to say... but my 1983 K5 blazer with 6.2 diesel most definately will run... ( same engine as a HMMVV)

I also have an older diesel school bus that will run, and my Kubota tractor as well...
 Quoting: Enigma



or my shotgun?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 681862
United States
05/19/2009 10:02 AM
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Re: WOULD YOUR "NEWER" CAR BE EMP SURVIVABLE?
rent the movie Mad Max, he will show you a way lol
ellisl@email.com
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08/24/2011 02:32 AM
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Re: WOULD YOUR "NEWER" CAR BE EMP SURVIVABLE?
As long as your vehicle isn't grounded in any way, up on jacks or blocks or on it's rims or sporting a flat tire, Mister Faraday says it's going to survive. Well enclosed engine compartments on some vehicles almost guarantee their
survival.

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