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The economic problem is this: Updated last page 16

 
InterMezzo

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05/09/2012 02:27 PM

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Re: The economic problem is this: Updated last page 16
marginal productivity of debt is now negative

"In view of the fact that the marginal productivity of debt is now negative
we can see that the damage-control measures of the Obama administration,
which are financed through creating unprecedented amounts of new debt,
are counter-productive. Nay, they are the direct cause of further
economic contraction of an already prostrate economy, including unemployment."



"It follows that price rises are unsustainable, as the consumer is unable to pay them.
As a consequence the retail and wholesale merchants are also squeezed. They have to retrench.

Pressure from vanishing demand is passed on further to the producers who have to retrench as well.

All of them are experiencing an ebb in their operating cash flow.

They lay off more people, aggravating the crisis further as cash in the hand of the consumers is
diminished even more through increased unemployment.

The vicious spiral is on."


[link to www.gold-eagle.com]


For those of you who have never read Antel Fekete let me just say this.
I have read him for over a decade and he is spot on in his analysis.

With the information in this one article you now have a bright lamp
to light the dark closet of economics.

Your policiticians were and are the cause of the global economic destruction.

Therefore any and all attempts by the governments of the world to
try to stop the economic meltdown has the same effect
a playing russian roulette with a bolt action rifle.
 Quoting: Kingman-Art


A very interesting read. Thank you for this thread.

I am in no way an expert on this whole financial picture, but than with all the counter-productive measures by pumping in more money in this ocean of debt, it makes you wonder who is an expert when it comes to solutions.

It is I guess like in every business, when things go from bad to worse, the so called experts tend to try and find solutions in their specific line of business, instead of trying to think out of the box. If you translate that to the business we call our global economy, this behaviour gives you an insight in what shape we are when it comes to solutions.

There are none, because these financial "experts" like Bernanke and Geithner and the likes of Sarkozy and Merkel can only think in financial solutions and their most favorite one is to pump in more debt to buy time, force fake static budget cuts on to society, stare at the sky and hope things get better. But in that respect hope is for suckers.

So, unless they accept input from an "Einstein"-like genius (if there is anyone with that genius at all), there is no other way than that the whole financial and social system will zero out. Just in time has in that respect become just too late. A war won't change things. If the line of thinking throughout the system does not change, the problem will still exist after any war, probably even gotten worse.

This about sums up the "solution strenght" of our so called experts:

box1
Isis7
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Re: The economic problem is this: Updated last page 16
Hiya Art,

Fresh in today's news...

Babcock & Wilcox Hits Record $6 Billion Backlog in First-Quarter 2012, Benefits From Environmental Legislation, an Industrial Info News Alert
[link to www.marketwatch.com]
Kingman-Art (OP)

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05/18/2012 05:59 PM

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Re: The economic problem is this: Updated last page 16
Well .... It seems like some area's of the world are

finally starting to see the implications of

a Syncro-Locked K-wave.


"As discussed herein, the potential rapid annihilation of what used to be a global reserve currency could lead to one of the fastest and sharpest redistributions of wealth in financial history.

If catastrophe takes down Europe's economy and banking system, then we may see repeated tidal waves of business collapse and spiking unemployment spreading out from the EU, and slamming into the already weak but tightly interlinked economies of the US, Japan, Canada, Australia and others."

Potential Euro Collapse & Rapid Redistribution Of Personal Wealth - Daniel R. Amerman, CFA 16 May 2012
[link to www.gold-eagle.com]


I think FaceBook (ticker symbol - FB) should be renamed (ticker symbol - FP).

To paraphrase from the well known question ....

Got Toast ?

rockon rockon rockon rockon rockon
BTW, FP means facepalm.
Anonymous Coward
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05/18/2012 06:16 PM
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Re: The economic problem is this: Updated last page 16
Well .... It seems like some area's of the world are

finally starting to see the implications of

a Syncro-Locked K-wave.


"As discussed herein, the potential rapid annihilation of what used to be a global reserve currency could lead to one of the fastest and sharpest redistributions of wealth in financial history.

If catastrophe takes down Europe's economy and banking system, then we may see repeated tidal waves of business collapse and spiking unemployment spreading out from the EU, and slamming into the already weak but tightly interlinked economies of the US, Japan, Canada, Australia and others."

Potential Euro Collapse & Rapid Redistribution Of Personal Wealth - Daniel R. Amerman, CFA 16 May 2012
[link to www.gold-eagle.com]


I think FaceBook (ticker symbol - FB) should be renamed (ticker symbol - FP).

To paraphrase from the well known question ....

Got Toast ?

rockon rockon rockon rockon rockon
BTW, FP means facepalm.
 Quoting: Kingman-Art


we're fucked..
Anonymous Coward
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05/18/2012 06:22 PM
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Re: The economic problem is this: Updated last page 16
[link to 24hgold.com] hiding
Anonymous Coward
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05/18/2012 06:22 PM
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Re: The economic problem is this: Updated last page 16
comments?

yeah, I was in an army navy store today and bot a small bivy tent and a portable shower bivy tent thing and other survival gear. Have a fall back plan...
Anonymous Coward
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05/18/2012 06:23 PM
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Re: The economic problem is this: Updated last page 16
The problem with the economy is this:

1. Mankind has become a perpetual lying machine


2. Mankind has become extremely lazy
Anonymous Coward
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05/18/2012 06:32 PM
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Re: The economic problem is this: Updated last page 16
just in time is definitely going to be very damaging.

it is interesting that a year ago CNBC was extolling the virtue of just in time and how the US companies were so efficient it wasn't going to result in huge layoffs like in other slow downs. guess what? they were right! we're going to go straight to shut downs.

it is not pretty and i cannot see anything that will save the US, aside from a war.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 521026

The problem is of such a nature that a war... a real big war would not do anything to fix the problem.
It would make it worse.
 Quoting: Kingman-Art


what if the war were against the bankers? take down the warburgs, roths, rocks, etc. toss the moneychangers out of the temple and start anew?
Anonymous Coward
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05/18/2012 06:41 PM
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Re: The economic problem is this: Updated last page 16
what if the war were against the bankers? take down the warburgs, roths, rocks, etc. toss the moneychangers out of the temple and start anew?


The moneychangers own the temple now. We'll have to destroy it along with them. But then what? What's the plan for after?
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05/18/2012 06:54 PM
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Re: The economic problem is this: Updated last page 16
what if the war were against the bankers? take down the warburgs, roths, rocks, etc. toss the moneychangers out of the temple and start anew?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14230170


The moneychangers own the temple now. We'll have to destroy it along with them. But then what? What's the plan for after?


They have too many guns, and the world is busy playing stupid Facebook games and watching sports on TV.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: The economic problem is this: Updated last page 16
what if the war were against the bankers? take down the warburgs, roths, rocks, etc. toss the moneychangers out of the temple and start anew?

The moneychangers own the temple now. We'll have to destroy it along with them. But then what? What's the plan for after?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14230170


They have too many guns, and the world is busy playing stupid Facebook games and watching sports on TV.
Anonymous Coward
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05/18/2012 06:58 PM
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Re: The economic problem is this: Updated last page 16
what if the war were against the bankers? take down the warburgs, roths, rocks, etc. toss the moneychangers out of the temple and start anew?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14230170


The moneychangers own the temple now. We'll have to destroy it along with them. But then what? What's the plan for after?


the only way things will change but who on this planet would hold to the supreme ruler of 8 billion slaves in a just and honored way?
grefey

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05/18/2012 07:09 PM
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Re: The economic problem is this: Updated last page 16
you mean K-Swiss?
 Quoting: I Am Spartacus


The Russian economist Nikolai Kondratiev was the first to bring these observations international attention in his book The Major Economic Cycles (1925) alongside other works written in the same decade.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

edited:
An extract from the above link...
a very long read ....

The current cycle most likely peaked in 1999 with a possible winter phase beginning in late 2008. The Austrian-school economists point out that extreme price inflation in the absence of economic growth is a form of capital destruction, allowing either stagflation (as in the 1970s and much of the 2000s during the gold and oil price run-ups) or deflation (as in the 1930s and possibly following the crash in commodity prices beginning in 2008) to represent a recession or depression phase of the Kondratieff theory.


WINTER PHASE BEGINNING IN LATE 2008....
which is where we are today.
 Quoting: Kingman-Art


OP, I have read about the Kondratiev Winter that we are approaching and I agree with, however, I personally believe the entire thing is much bigger than just the Kondratiev wave theory. I believe the Mayans are also correct and we are at the end of an age, this has spiritual implications that I believe are far more important than the economic ones. What do you think?
Kingman-Art (OP)

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Re: The economic problem is this: Updated last page 16
you mean K-Swiss?
 Quoting: I Am Spartacus


The Russian economist Nikolai Kondratiev was the first to bring these observations international attention in his book The Major Economic Cycles (1925) alongside other works written in the same decade.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

edited:
An extract from the above link...
a very long read ....

The current cycle most likely peaked in 1999 with a possible winter phase beginning in late 2008. The Austrian-school economists point out that extreme price inflation in the absence of economic growth is a form of capital destruction, allowing either stagflation (as in the 1970s and much of the 2000s during the gold and oil price run-ups) or deflation (as in the 1930s and possibly following the crash in commodity prices beginning in 2008) to represent a recession or depression phase of the Kondratieff theory.


WINTER PHASE BEGINNING IN LATE 2008....
which is where we are today.
 Quoting: Kingman-Art


OP, I have read about the Kondratiev Winter that we are approaching and I agree with, however, I personally believe the entire thing is much bigger than just the Kondratiev wave theory. I believe the Mayans are also correct and we are at the end of an age, this has spiritual implications that I believe are far more important than the economic ones. What do you think?
 Quoting: grefey



The bible has the necessary insights to the events that you mentioned.
rockon rockon rockon rockon rockon
Knowing what it says, determines your future.
Anonymous Coward
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05/18/2012 07:17 PM
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Re: The economic problem is this: Updated last page 16
Just a way for the organics to remove the synthetics
Anonymous Coward
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05/18/2012 07:21 PM
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Re: The economic problem is this: Updated last page 16
Just a way for the organics to remove the synthetics
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16192691


Not a wrong choice?
Anonymous Coward
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05/18/2012 07:21 PM
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Re: The economic problem is this: Updated last page 16
Just a way for the organics to remove the synthetics
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16192691


Not a wrong choice?
Anonymous Coward
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Re: The economic problem is this: Updated last page 16
Just a way for the organics to remove the synthetics
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16192691


Not a wrong choice?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16184290


Only if you are a clone dependent on synthetic life.
grefey

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05/18/2012 07:33 PM
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Re: The economic problem is this: Updated last page 16
you mean K-Swiss?
 Quoting: I Am Spartacus


The Russian economist Nikolai Kondratiev was the first to bring these observations international attention in his book The Major Economic Cycles (1925) alongside other works written in the same decade.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

edited:
An extract from the above link...
a very long read ....

The current cycle most likely peaked in 1999 with a possible winter phase beginning in late 2008. The Austrian-school economists point out that extreme price inflation in the absence of economic growth is a form of capital destruction, allowing either stagflation (as in the 1970s and much of the 2000s during the gold and oil price run-ups) or deflation (as in the 1930s and possibly following the crash in commodity prices beginning in 2008) to represent a recession or depression phase of the Kondratieff theory.


WINTER PHASE BEGINNING IN LATE 2008....
which is where we are today.
 Quoting: Kingman-Art


OP, I have read about the Kondratiev Winter that we are approaching and I agree with, however, I personally believe the entire thing is much bigger than just the Kondratiev wave theory. I believe the Mayans are also correct and we are at the end of an age, this has spiritual implications that I believe are far more important than the economic ones. What do you think?
 Quoting: grefey



The bible has the necessary insights to the events that you mentioned.
rockon rockon rockon rockon rockon
Knowing what it says, determines your future.
 Quoting: Kingman-Art


There is more than one way to do it. Unfortunately, most Christians believe they are in an exclusive group just like the jewish people and the Muslims and only they are the choosen ones(which has caused most of the problems in the world). These 3 Abrahamic religions have been responsible for most of the wars, hate, killing, rape, pedophilia, etc. that has occurred on planet earth for the last 2,000 yrs. or so. Let's start with the early Catholic church and the fusion w/ the roman empire resulting in the Inquisition, Reformation, Holy Wars, and now the ultimate Holy War which will be WW3. Do you really think Christ would have wanted it this way. I don't, the kingdom of heaven is within all of us if we will only look, no matter our race, color, creed, religion or sex.

Last Edited by grefey on 05/18/2012 07:35 PM
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Re: The economic problem is this: Updated last page 16
America needs someone to stand up as a leader and teach people how to share things we have with others, if we all share our food we would all be fine. And if someone is in need people will automatically reach out and help leaving no one behind. Just need society as a whole to realize how connected we are and how everyone at the core really is our brothers and sisters. Someday..
grefey

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Re: The economic problem is this: Updated last page 16
America needs someone to stand up as a leader and teach people how to share things we have with others, if we all share our food we would all be fine. And if someone is in need people will automatically reach out and help leaving no one behind. Just need society as a whole to realize how connected we are and how everyone at the core really is our brothers and sisters. Someday..
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4241633


bumphf

I think this is what we are hear to learn this time around. We will soon see how well we have done, I think.

Last Edited by grefey on 05/18/2012 07:53 PM
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Re: The economic problem is this: Updated last page 16
The problem is that a small group of psychopaths are dominating the world's resources.
grefey

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Re: The economic problem is this: Updated last page 16
The problem is that a small group of psychopaths are dominating the world's resources.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3541799


They are doing this through the corruption and control of the financial system and this is why it will collapse. Then we will see what we are all made of and how much spiritual progress we have made on the earthly plane during this life time, right?

Last Edited by grefey on 05/18/2012 07:56 PM
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Interesting theory, but remember this still places responsibility on ECONOMIC THEORY that is the better part of a century old, and every ECONOMIC THEORY has at least 3 contrasting theories to show that the theory is wrong, and each of those contrasting theories have multiple theories explaining why those theories are wrong about the original theory which they contend is wrong but for another reason.

It may be easier to place the global economic crisis on the theory that human beings are no better than parasites.

Individually, all human beings have positive aspects, but as a mass worsen exponentially.

Consider the following:

Hypothesis - a proposed explanation for a phenomenon

Theory - analytical tools for understanding, explaining, and making predictions about a given subject matter.

Law - established principles thought to be universal and invariable


Economist always like to propose THEORIES. Yet Business prefers to stick to LAWS

Consider the Laws of Supply and Demand and modern social conditioning. Most store brands are manufactured in the same mill at the same time as a name product. For example Sam's Choice Toilet paper in manufactured by Georgia Pacific at the same time GP produces Angel Soft. Social conditioning steers consumers away from store brands as they are products for a lower class of people, yet they are identical products, but then you have the Cottonelle purchasers that just prefer the feel on the rosebud.

Humans being are not in harmony with the world, and history has shown that they will strip the Earth of Natural Resources until there is nothing left. It is the way of humans, with the natural world, and the world they created. Human Beings want choice, and they want what makes them appear the best, as with the Toilet Paper example, it just proves that Human Beings are full of shit.

I digressed from my point, but it was necessary.

The main idea is that Economic Theories are great in theory, but they are for the most part impractical. technology has grown faster than the economy and usurped any relevance to the real world. Considering that most economic theories were postulated when the author could not even conceive of someone flying Wagyu Beef from Japan, Stone Crab from Miami, Lobster from Maine, Snow Crab from Alaska, Pineapple from Hawaii and Caviar from Russia for a dinner party tomorrow all while social networking with their suppliers on a computer the size of a billfold.

It is more likely that the Global Economic Crisis has little to do with cycles of fluctuation, rather it is a result ignoring the need for sustainable resources. Society has pushed toward making money off of buying and selling, unfortunately very few are making any products to sell.
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Re: The economic problem is this: Updated last page 16
The problem is that a small group of psychopaths are dominating the world's resources.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3541799


They are doing this through the corruption and control of the financial system and this is why it will collapse. Then we will see what we are all made of and how much spiritual progress we have made on the earthly plane during this life time, right?
 Quoting: grefey

I'd rather our collective awakening come about through an epic interdimensional invasion, but hey...whatever gets the job done.
grefey

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05/18/2012 08:07 PM
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Re: The economic problem is this: Updated last page 16
The problem is that a small group of psychopaths are dominating the world's resources.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3541799


They are doing this through the corruption and control of the financial system and this is why it will collapse. Then we will see what we are all made of and how much spiritual progress we have made on the earthly plane during this life time, right?
 Quoting: grefey

I'd rather our collective awakening come about through an epic interdimensional invasion, but hey...whatever gets the job done.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3541799


LOL, how right you are, but most of the time we don't to choose, especially now.
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Re: The economic problem is this: Updated last page 16
what if the war were against the bankers? take down the warburgs, roths, rocks, etc. toss the moneychangers out of the temple and start anew?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14230170


The moneychangers own the temple now. We'll have to destroy it along with them. But then what? What's the plan for after?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8397139


They have too many guns, and the world is busy playing stupid Facebook games and watching sports on TV.


all of those guns are manned by peasants. if the peasants ever decided to pull another French Revolution, then God help 'em.

but you are right, as long as the peasants are eating both bread and cake, it isn't likely to change.
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Re: The economic problem is this: Updated last page 16
Well .... It seems like some area's of the world are

finally starting to see the implications of

a Syncro-Locked K-wave.


"As discussed herein, the potential rapid annihilation of what used to be a global reserve currency could lead to one of the fastest and sharpest redistributions of wealth in financial history.

If catastrophe takes down Europe's economy and banking system, then we may see repeated tidal waves of business collapse and spiking unemployment spreading out from the EU, and slamming into the already weak but tightly interlinked economies of the US, Japan, Canada, Australia and others."

Potential Euro Collapse & Rapid Redistribution Of Personal Wealth - Daniel R. Amerman, CFA 16 May 2012
[link to www.gold-eagle.com]


I think FaceBook (ticker symbol - FB) should be renamed (ticker symbol - FP).

To paraphrase from the well known question ....

Got Toast ?

rockon rockon rockon rockon rockon
BTW, FP means facepalm.
 Quoting: Kingman-Art


we're fucked..
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1121444

How do you get "we're fucked" from that? Unless you're one of THEM yoda
Deej

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05/18/2012 08:47 PM
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Re: The economic problem is this: Updated last page 16
you mean K-Swiss?
 Quoting: I Am Spartacus


The Russian economist Nikolai Kondratiev was the first to bring these observations international attention in his book The Major Economic Cycles (1925) alongside other works written in the same decade.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

edited:
An extract from the above link...
a very long read ....

The current cycle most likely peaked in 1999 with a possible winter phase beginning in late 2008. The Austrian-school economists point out that extreme price inflation in the absence of economic growth is a form of capital destruction, allowing either stagflation (as in the 1970s and much of the 2000s during the gold and oil price run-ups) or deflation (as in the 1930s and possibly following the crash in commodity prices beginning in 2008) to represent a recession or depression phase of the Kondratieff theory.


WINTER PHASE BEGINNING IN LATE 2008....
which is where we are today.
 Quoting: Kingman-Art


OP, I have read about the Kondratiev Winter that we are approaching and I agree with, however, I personally believe the entire thing is much bigger than just the Kondratiev wave theory. I believe the Mayans are also correct and we are at the end of an age, this has spiritual implications that I believe are far more important than the economic ones. What do you think?
 Quoting: grefey


Major agreement, except in that it seems you're thinking that the physical/current events are happening independently or along-side of the spiritual events...

I purpose this: ALL physical/current events happen along-with spiritual... or even follow spiritual evolution.

Eg. The internet is the physical manifestation of our consciousness. (If you understand that statement, w/out explanation.)

SO... this economic event that is occurring, is just a manifestation of the evolution of consciousness.

I'm not sure where that evolution is going to take us, but the fact is, it is changing/evolving and the events that are taking place, ie. our economic collapse, is nothing more than the physical manifestation of that change.

Nothing to be concerned about, unless you are able to only identify with the physical and not the spiritual.

:endrant:

Last Edited by Deej on 05/18/2012 08:48 PM
No matter what happens... just say "Thank You." - D W Fierce
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Re: The economic problem is this: Updated last page 16
The K is this. They compute another quadtrillion in BS money stick it into K and all hail lord obama. Meanwhile the top 1 percent will still own all the worlds wealth.
Who cares money when there's nothing left to eat?

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