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WILL OBAMA BE PRESIDENT? Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth

 
Eileen
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12/04/2008 02:14 PM
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WILL OBAMA BE PRESIDENT? Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth
BEFORE READING THE FOLLOWING ARTICLE, there is something else to remember:

African Press International (API) [link to www.africanpress.in] tells us that they are going to release the Michelle Obama tapes before the Electoral College votes. All interested parties need to keep tabs on the API website. API will tell us when they are ready and then we have certain instructions to follow.

The Kenyan Imam that is either in England or the USA has evidence from a Kenyan mosque that Obama was blessed at this mosque as a baby and that is where he received his middle name “Hussein.”

Frankly, I don’t know if Obama will be sworn in as president or not. I would just like this subject to be over. Is Obama one of us or isn’t he? Obama and the Democratic Party could answer our questions very quickly if they wanted to. I am weary of all this ridiculous silence. THE GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO TELL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THE TRUTH.

*************************************************************​*******
[link to www.earthfrisk.com]
FOLLOWING ARTICLE TAKEN FROM THIS LINK

Current Article
Shocker: Why Obama WILL NOT Be President in January

Real Issue - This is NOT a JOKE! Read this and you will believe as well as be ready for the coming riots and Constitutional Crisis!

Hawaii Issues Birth Certificates to Foreign Born Residents!

Here’s Hawaii saying it like it it. All Doubts Cleared my Friends.

A. From Hawaii’s official Department of Health, Vital Records webpage: “Amended certificates of birth may be prepared and filed with the Department of Health, as provided by law, for …

1) a person born in Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health or

2) a person born in a foreign country“ (applies to adopted children).

B. A parent may register an in-state birth in lieu of certification by a hospital of birth under HRS 338-5.

C. Hawaiian law expressly provides for registration of out-of-state births under HRS 338-17.8. A foreign birth presumably would have been recorded by the American consular of the country of birth, and presumably that would be reflected on the Hawaiian birth certificate.

D. Hawaiian law, however, expressly acknowledges that its system is subject to error. See, for example, HRS 338-17.

E. Hawaiian law expressly provides for verification in lieu of certified copy of a birth certificate under HRS 338-14.3.

F. Even the Hawaii Department of Home Lands does not accept a certified copy of a birth certificate as conclusive evidence for its homestead program. From its web site: “In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL.”

Now that we all understand that you can be born in Madagascar, Russia, Norway, Brazil or even Kenya like Obama and still have a REAL birth certificate that both Snopes and Factcheck would say was real since they are real. That doesn’t mean you were born in Hawaii. Does this matter to America?

Why this is about to explode with SCOTUS

Why does this matter to America in the year 2008? Well let’s just think of the Democratic Presidential elect. Here is a man who has frozen his ‘vault copy’ ( the one that tells of the Hospital as well as Dr. that delivered him and place of birth) in Hawaii.

Barack Obama has as of November 27th 2008 spent over$500,000 U.S. to prevent others from seeing it. Why? Didn’t he already win the vote?

Please don’t bring up Snopes (link) that says THEYVE SEEN Obama’s birth certificate and it is the one on his site called Fight the Smears. That is just plain garbage as it has a 2007 border and doesn’t list the hospital, Dr. or place of birth! Plus they say they’ve seen his real birth certificate (you know the one that we the people aren’t allowed to see) .

All of the people born in Korea, Kenya, Mongolia, Australia and who also have Hawaiian birth certificates also have REAL birth certificates.

This does not mean they were born in Hawaii. Get it?

The following is what Obama has on his site as his real birth certificate authenticated by Snopes and Factcheck. Hmmm - 2007 borders, no info on original at all? What’s wrong with this picture? Yes it is a real birth certificate, so are the tens of thousands of other birth certificates given to people born in other countries.

Fact: Both Hospitals claimed to be Obama’s birthplace in Honolulu have no record of he or his mother ever being there!

Kapiolani Medical Center for Women and Children - Obama and Mom Never There
1319 Punahou Street
Honolulu, Hawaii 96826
(808) 535-7000 Link to site

Queens Medical Center in Honolulu - Obama and Mom Never There

The Queen’s Medical Center
1301 Punchbowl Street
Honolulu, HI 96813 Link to Site

Who does claim Obama? Kenya and his family there that swears to have been at his birth in Mombasa Coastal Hospital in Kenya. Here’s a link with his Grandmother proud that Obama was elected President and who never visited America and never had a VISA. Link

Please don’t bring up Fact Check either (link) as they and Snopes can literally LOOK AT the thousands and thousands of birth certificates in Hawaii from people born in Korea, Australia, Germany and even Kenya like Barack Obama! They are all REAL and Authentic birth certificates, but that doesn’t mean Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.

Snopes and FactCheck aren’t lying when they say the 2007 birth certificate on Obama’s site is real. So are the thousands and thousands of birth certificates in Hawaii from people born in Korea, Australia, Germany and even Kenya like Barack Obama! They are all REAL and Authentic birth certificates, but that doesn’t mean they or Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.

This is the whole point my friends. That is why many of us are incensed that Obama is about to become the President and may not even Constitutionally qualify to be one!

This is unacceptable to every American who understands that Hawaii issues birth certificates to those born in foreign nations.

Yes - it is a proven fact that Hawaii grants birth certificates to people born in other nations! If you or I want a copy, they produce the document that you see on Obama’s site. That is NOT the one that has what we need to see to have Obama become President of the United States.

To become President of the United States one must meet 3 criteria.
You must be 35 years of Age
You must be a resident for 14 years
You must be a natural born citizen - this is the one that someone born outside of the United States would obviously spend hundreds of thousands $$ to prevent us from seeing his birth certificate, just as Barack Obama has done. Hint Hint.

Supreme Court meets December 5th

10 Days before the Electoral College Meets on December 15th, 4 Justices of the Supreme Court will gather on December 5th. They will look at the numerous lawsuits before Federal court all over the nation to force Obama to reveal his vault copy. Knowing that anyone can have a Hawaiian birth certificate and still be born in other nations, it is imperative that you tell others what is going on.

This isn’t the ravings of a lunatic fringe as the mainstream media would have you believe. I ask any American who now understands that

anyone born in any foreign nation can obtain a Real Hawaiian birth certificate that Snopes and FactCheck would authenticate as real

Since you now know that anyone can get one do we as the people of the United States of America have the right to see Barack Obama’s birth certificate before he is sworn in? He must be a natural born citizen to be our President and obviously since he is fighting to prevent us all from knowing where he was born, he must have been born in Kenya.

Ask yourself why is he fighting all of this if there is nothing to it?

American Thinker rightly says:


B. His motion to dismiss the Berg case for lack of standing could be viewed as contemptuous of the Constitution. See, “Who Enforces the Constitution’s Natural Born Citizen Clause?“ Are we to expect yet another White House that hides behind lawyers, and expects Americans to swallow half-truths on a just-trust-me basis?

C. This issue poses the potential for a constitutional crisis unlike anything this country has seen. Disclosure at this stage, however, could even result in criminal sanctions. See, “Obama Must Stand Up Now Or Step Down.” Thus, he has motive not to disclose if he were ineligible.

The question not being asked by the holders of power, who dismiss this as a rightwing conspiracy, is what’s the downside of disclosing? This is a legitimate issue of inquiry because Barack Obama has turned it into one. The growing number of people who demand an answer in conformance with the Constitution are doing their work; the people’s watchdogs aren’t. see American Thinker

This issue will not be put to bed and I pray we resolve it before this man is in office.

No One Checks these People’s backgrounds at all?

There is in fact NO ONE that checks. That is part of the lawsuits before the Supreme Court against the DNC as well as Obama. All they do is ask the state of birth if they have a real birth certificate on file and what the date of birth is. That is ALL! This is the whole point of the matter.

We even had other candidates run for the Presidency in minor parties like this guy - who ran for President against Obama and McCain but WAS BORN IN NICARAGUA. [link to en.wikipedia.org]
Understand that there is no one that makes sure like a national HR dept that candidates are qualified. Róger Calero was the Socialist Workers Party Candidate. He was also arrested for felonies - another reason that he should not have even been allowed to even run for the Presidency in America. FACT. By the way he (Róger Calero) was on the ballot in five states, where he received 7,209 votes. Coupled with the 2,618 votes received in the five states where Harris was on the ballot, the Socialist Workers Party received 9,827 votes. No one checked his qualifications either. No one does!

We need to see Obama’s ’sealed’ birth certificate to clear all of the lies.
Eileen (OP)
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12/04/2008 02:18 PM
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Re: WILL OBAMA BE PRESIDENT? Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth
Some of what I had in the subject post was cut off again.

Go the the subject post and click on the API link. Scroll down on the left side. There you will see that the Michelle Obama tape is going to be released before the Electoral College votes.

Those who are interested in this tape need to keep a watchful eye on the API link. When API is ready to release the tape, all interested parties will have instructions to follow.
Anonymous Coward
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12/04/2008 02:18 PM
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Re: WILL OBAMA BE PRESIDENT? Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth
bump
Anonymous Coward
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12/04/2008 02:26 PM
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Re: WILL OBAMA BE PRESIDENT? Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth
bump
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 565621
why? we have 9962153645987 threads on the same fucking subject
Anonymous Coward
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12/04/2008 02:29 PM
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Re: WILL OBAMA BE PRESIDENT? Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth
Some of what I had in the subject post was cut off again.

Go the the subject post and click on the API link. Scroll down on the left side. There you will see that the Michelle Obama tape is going to be released before the Electoral College votes.

Those who are interested in this tape need to keep a watchful eye on the API link. When API is ready to release the tape, all interested parties will have instructions to follow.
 Quoting: Eileen 395434


you must be the only idiot still following the API hoax.
TomGuadalupe
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12/04/2008 02:35 PM
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Re: WILL OBAMA BE PRESIDENT? Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth
Even though Obama is president and that is not going to change lets just say for the sake of argument that he was not born here.

Ok so what, i believe the constitution is what states a person must be a natural born citizen.

Since we have been shitting on the constitution for the past 8 years while the OP has been silent why make a big deal out of it now?
Anonymous Coward
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12/04/2008 02:40 PM
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Re: WILL OBAMA BE PRESIDENT? Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth
Even though Obama is president and that is not going to change lets just say for the sake of argument that he was not born here.

Ok so what, i believe the constitution is what states a person must be a natural born citizen.

Since we have been shitting on the constitution for the past 8 years while the OP has been silent why make a big deal out of it now?
 Quoting: TomGuadalupe 559040


How do you know the OP has remained silent?
Anonymous Coward
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12/04/2008 02:46 PM
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Re: WILL OBAMA BE PRESIDENT? Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth
Anyone who doesn't support Obama is unamerican.
Anonymous Coward
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12/04/2008 02:49 PM
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Re: WILL OBAMA BE PRESIDENT? Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth
Anyone who doesn't support Obama is unamerican.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7315



Even if Obama ISN'T American???????
Anonymous Coward
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12/04/2008 02:53 PM
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Re: WILL OBAMA BE PRESIDENT? Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth
API...lol
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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12/04/2008 04:10 PM
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Re: WILL OBAMA BE PRESIDENT? Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth
Anyone who doesn't support Obama is unamerican.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7315


It's not just the question of where he was born. There are a host of other issues.

Obama is too connected to questionable characters. He is suspiciously connected to socialism and/or Marxism.

This "unamerican" statement in the quote is absurd. Because of that one word, it strikes me that you must have come out of one of those dumbed down public schools.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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12/04/2008 04:11 PM
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Re: WILL OBAMA BE PRESIDENT? Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth
bump
why? we have 9962153645987 threads on the same fucking subject
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 531633


... And everyone of those threads says it a little differently. You can learn from each one.
Anonymous Coward
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12/04/2008 04:14 PM
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Re: WILL OBAMA BE PRESIDENT? Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth
bump
why? we have 9962153645987 threads on the same fucking subject


... And everyone of those threads says it a little differently. You can learn from each one.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 395434
I dont learn from biased sources.
Spy vs Spy

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12/04/2008 04:16 PM
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Re: WILL OBAMA BE PRESIDENT? Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth
You are either with us, or your with the Kenyan Poser.
Anonymous Coward
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12/04/2008 04:18 PM
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Re: WILL OBAMA BE PRESIDENT? Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth
Those who don't support Obama will be labled unAmerican, added to the No-Fly list and the survelance watch list.

Karma's a bitch!
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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12/04/2008 04:18 PM
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Re: WILL OBAMA BE PRESIDENT? Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth
Some of what I had in the subject post was cut off again.

Go the the subject post and click on the API link. Scroll down on the left side. There you will see that the Michelle Obama tape is going to be released before the Electoral College votes.

Those who are interested in this tape need to keep a watchful eye on the API link. When API is ready to release the tape, all interested parties will have instructions to follow.


you must be the only idiot still following the API hoax.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 454845


Yes, that's me. If I'm an idiot, so be it. I like to follow subjects to their conclusion.

You know, I think for sure the Democrats want us to believe it is a hoax. Frankly, I really don't know. What would be the purpose of having these tapes be a hoax?

I'm going to stay with the subject a while longer. I don't know the reason API would want to cause a hoax.

Actually, I'm more interested in the Imam document from the Kenyan Mosque. If it is indeed true that he has this document, it sounds like it could be similar to a Christian Baptism Certificate.
Anonymous Coward
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12/04/2008 04:28 PM
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Re: WILL OBAMA BE PRESIDENT? Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth
Yes, that's me. If I'm an idiot, so be it. I like to follow subjects to their conclusion.

You know, I think for sure the Democrats want us to believe it is a hoax. Frankly, I really don't know. What would be the purpose of having these tapes be a hoax?

I'm going to stay with the subject a while longer. I don't know the reason API would want to cause a hoax.

Actually, I'm more interested in the Imam document from the Kenyan Mosque. If it is indeed true that he has this document, it sounds like it could be similar to a Christian Baptism Certificate.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 395434



See what i dont understand is if this is not a hoax then why are republicans not all over this?
Why has Mccain said nothing?

Why dont i hear about it on Fox news?

You know why just admit it to yourself.

So whats your answer, and the election to Palin?
Have another election?
Anonymous Coward
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12/04/2008 04:28 PM
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Re: WILL OBAMA BE PRESIDENT? Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth
Communist Dr. Ann Dunham went to Kenya and adopted a boy of well placed elite Barack Hussein Obama Sr. She brought Barack back to Hawaii and registered his birth. Barack was raised and educated by the communist around Dr. Dunham including Frank Marshall Davis who mentored Barack in the ways of communist revolution including hatred of religion, especially Christianity and the Bible, feminism, affirmative action, globalisation and socialism.

After fininshing his formal education Barack joined the Marxist New Party and the Chicago Socialist Party who organize his election helped along whith those in high places and bankers who had arranged for his African adoption.
Anonymous Coward
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12/04/2008 04:31 PM
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Re: WILL OBAMA BE PRESIDENT? Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth
Communist Dr. Ann Dunham went to Kenya and adopted a boy of well placed elite Barack Hussein Obama Sr. She brought Barack back to Hawaii and registered his birth. Barack was raised and educated by the communist around Dr. Dunham including Frank Marshall Davis who mentored Barack in the ways of communist revolution including hatred of religion, especially Christianity and the Bible, feminism, affirmative action, globalisation and socialism.

After fininshing his formal education Barack joined the Marxist New Party and the Chicago Socialist Party who organize his election helped along whith those in high places and bankers who had arranged for his African adoption.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 565689


Bahahahahaha lol
Anonymous Coward
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12/04/2008 04:31 PM
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Re: WILL OBAMA BE PRESIDENT? Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth
Do you have a proper certificate issued by the hospitals that state Obama wasn't born at either one?
Anonymous Coward
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bsflag
II-Neutron

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Re: WILL OBAMA BE PRESIDENT? Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth
Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth - Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth - Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth - Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth - Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth - Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth - Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth - Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth - Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth - Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth - Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth - Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth - Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth - Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth - Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth - Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth - Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth - Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth - Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth - Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth - Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth - Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth - Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth - Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth -

Ok now that this thread is brought back online think about it people his birth is a real issue and it is becoming clear there is a reason why him and his handlers will not address the matter.

What that reason is many would like to know and not only like, the American people have the right to ask their servants that which they require in order to determine that they are fit to serve them.
ii.neutron@gmail.com
By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. Hebrews: 11
Anonymous Coward
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12/04/2008 06:17 PM
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Re: WILL OBAMA BE PRESIDENT? Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth
Ok now that this thread is brought back online think about it people his birth is a real issue and it is becoming clear there is a reason why him and his handlers will not address the matter.

 Quoting: II-Neutron



Then why do we only hear and read about it on GLP and other forums and not on CSPAN mainstream etc..

Why do mainline republicans not bring this silly shit up?

Im not hearing much from Mccain regarding the subject.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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12/04/2008 07:44 PM
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Re: WILL OBAMA BE PRESIDENT? Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth
Ok now that this thread is brought back online think about it people his birth is a real issue and it is becoming clear there is a reason why him and his handlers will not address the matter.




Then why do we only hear and read about it on GLP and other forums and not on CSPAN mainstream etc..

Why do mainline republicans not bring this silly shit up?

Im not hearing much from Mccain regarding the subject.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 559040



I think that the news people have to follow the orders/directions of their employer ... most of whom are devout liberals.

Yes, I would like to know why the Republican senators and Congressmen have not brought it up. WHY??? GOOD QUESTION! I have heard some of them sort of mumble about it on the side. Perhaps they are just waiting for the Courts and the Electoral College to do their job. ... Or they know that the dye was cast many moons ago.

Remember the Democratic debates? Wasn't it obvious to all of us that Obama and Hillary were being singled out and focused on to the exclusion of others ... WHEN THERE WERE FAR. FAR, FAR, FAR MORE EXPERIENCED POLITICIANS ON THE STAGE? It seems to me that the dye had already been cast.

Remember the Republican debates? Again the most experienced politicians and the ones that made the most sense were cast aside. In fact, if they could have slapped handcuffs on Ron Paul and dragged him off the stage ... THEY WOULD HAVE DONE THAT. It seems to me that the dye had already been cast.

IT ALSO SEEMS TO ME THAT SEN. MCCAIN FOUGHT SO HARD FOR THE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINATION ... so he could purposely hand it lock, stock and barrel over to Obama.

I THINK THE DYE HAD ALREADY BEEN CAST. DON'T YOU? WHY?

THE VETTING FOR OBAMA WAS DONE BY WHOM??? ... Or didn't anyone care? ... Or is this now the beginning of NWO leaders that can be born anywhere and govern anywhere?


P.S. Have you heard that Fox's reporters have not been invited to Obama's News Conferences? Why? Why is Obama having those presidential news conferences with the flags when he is not OFFICIALLY the president. Has the dye been cast no matter what?
georgebushworstprezev​er
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12/04/2008 10:04 PM
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Re: WILL OBAMA BE PRESIDENT? Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth
Yawn.......yet another thread on this same topic....what a snoozefest the GLP board is becoming.

Someone please wake me tomorrow when the full court announces their decision not to hear the case.
Anonymous Coward
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12/04/2008 10:06 PM
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Re: WILL OBAMA BE PRESIDENT? Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth
meh. the people have voted already so it doesn't even matter. laws were meant to be changed just like the laws of who can become president.
Anonymous Coward
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12/04/2008 10:08 PM
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bump for change
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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Re: WILL OBAMA BE PRESIDENT? Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth
A CONSTITUTIONAL LAWYER HAS SOME INTERESTING THINGS TO SAY ON THIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE TOPIC. We would all do well to listen, because this subject is not going to go away until answers are forthcoming.

*********************************


[link to www.africanpress.in]
Interview with Edwin Vieira, Constitutional Lawyer, discussing Obama’s Birth Certificate

By John P. Connolly, The Bulletin

12/01/2008

Controversy continues to surround President-elect Barack Obama's eligibility to serve as president, and a case involving his birth certificate waits for its day before the U.S. Supreme Court. A constitutional lawyer said were it to be discovered that Mr. Obama is not a natural-born U.S. citizen, it would have grave consequences for the nation.

According to the Constitution, a president must be a natural born citizen of the U.S. Mr. Obama's critics have failed to force him legally to produce his original birth certificate, and Mr. Obama has resisted any attempt to make him do so. Currently, only Hawaii Department of Health officials have access to Mr. Obama's original records.

Some of Mr. Obama's critics have said he was born in Kenya and have claimed he is a citizen of Kenya, Indonesia, or even a British subject.

Edwin Vieira, a constitutional lawyer who has practiced for 30 years and holds four degrees from Harvard, said if it were to be discovered Mr. Obama were not eligible for the presidency, it would cause many problems. They would be compounded if his ineligibility were discovered after he had been in office for a period of time.

"Let's assume he wasn't born in the U.S.," Mr. Vieira told The Bulletin. "What's the consequence? He will not be eligible. That means he cannot be elected validly. The people and the Electoral College cannot overcome this and the House of Representatives can't make him president. So what's the next step? He takes the oath of office, and assuming he's aware he's not a citizen, then it's a perjured oath."

Any appointments made by an ineligible president would have to be recalled, and their decisions would be invalidated.

"He may have nominated people to different positions; he may have nominated people to the judicial branch, who may have been confirmed, they may have gone out on xecutive duty and done various things," said Mr. Vieira. "The people that he's put into the judicial branch may have decided cases, and all of that needs to be unzipped."

Mr. Vieira said Obama supporters should be the ones concerned about the case, because Mr. Obama's platform would be discredited it he were forced to step down from the presidency later due to his ineligibility, were it to be discovered.

"Let's say we go a year into this process, and it all turns out to be a flim-flam," said Mr. Vieira. "What's the nation's reaction to that? What's going to be the reaction in the next U.S. election? God knows. It has almost revolutionary consequences, if you think about it."

Mr. Vieira said Mr. Obama's continued silence and avoidance in the release of his birth certificate is an ethical issue because of the dire consequences that could be caused by a possible constitutional crisis.

"If he were my client and this question came up in civil litigation, if there was some reason that his birth status was relevant and the other side wanted him to produce the thing and he said 'no,' I would tell him, 'you have about 15 minutes to produce it or sign the papers necessary to produce the document, or I'm resigning as your attorney," said Mr. Vieira. "I don't think any ethical attorney would go ahead on the basis that his client could produce an objective document in civil litigation [and refused to do so]."

Further, Mr. Vieira cited a fraud ruling in a 1977 case called U.S. v. Prudden, which he feels applies in this case.

"Silence can only be equated with fraud when there is a legal and moral duty to speak or when an inquiry left unanswered would be intentionally misleading," the ruling reads. "We cannot condone this shocking conduct ... If that is the case we hope our message is clear. This sort of deception will not be tolerated and if this is routine it should be corrected immediately."

Mr. Vieira said such an ethical question of representing a client who refused to produce such a basic document is important, even in a small civil case. The current question is concerning the man who potentially could have his finger next to the nuclear button.

"[The birth certificate], in theory, should be there," said Mr. Vieira. "What if it isn't? Who knows, aside from Mr. Obama? Does Russian intelligence know it isn't there? Does Chinese intelligence know it isn't there? Does the CIA know that it isn't there? Who is in a position to blackmail this fellow?"

Mr. Vieira explained all laws have to be submitted to the president. In the event that there is no valid president, then no laws passed by Congress in that administration would be legally null and void. Because of that, this case will probably not go away, even after Mr. Obama takes the oath of office.

"If you don't produce it, you think it's going to go away," he said. "There are all these cases challenging Mr. Obama, and some challenging secretaries of state, and they run into this doctrine called standing."

Mr. Vieira explained although legal standing is difficult to get around in Federal courts, the document could be produced in any criminal cases stemming from legislation passed in the Obama administration.

"Let's assume that an Obama administration passes some of these controversial pieces of legislation he has been promising to go for, like the FOCA (Freedom of Choice) Act," said Mr. Vieira. "I would assume that some of those surely will have some severe civil or criminal penalties attached to them for violation. You are now the criminal defendant under this statute, which was passed by an Obama Congress and signed by President Obama. Your defense is that is not a statute because Mr. Obama is not the president. You now have a right and I have never heard this challenged, to subpoena in a criminal case, anyone who has relevant evidence relating to your defenses. And you can subpoena them duces tecum, meaning 'you shall bring with you the documents.' "

Such a criminal defense would enable the defendant to subpoena any person to testify in court and any person to bring evidence in their possession to the court.

Further, records could be subpoenaed directly, in the case of a birth certificate. Once the record could be subpoenaed, the birth certificate could be examined by forensic experts, who would then be able to testify to the document's veracity as expert witnesses. Any movement by the judges to make a special exception to the president in a criminal case would hurt the legitimacy of that presidential administration.

"I can't believe I'm the only lawyer who would think of this," said Mr. Vieira. "I think any criminal lawyer defending against one of these politically charged statutes is going to come up with this. That means it will never go away until that document is laid down on the table and people say, 'yes, there it is.' And therefore they're caught. If people keep challenging this and the judges out of fear keep saying 'no, go to jail, go to jail, go to jail' then that's the end of the Obama administration's legitimacy. On the other hand if they open the file and it's not there, then that's really the end of the administration's legitimacy."

Several court cases in the birth certificate controversy are waiting admission to the Supreme Court.

A gathering of judges will meet on Dec. 5 to decide whether or not to hear a case from New Jersey, and a decision is still pending on a case from a lawyer in Pennsylvania. Should four of the judges vote to hear the case in the Dec. 5 meeting, then it will be scheduled for hearings. Court cases from Connecticut and New York have also applied for hearings at the U.S. Supreme Court.

John P. Connolly can be reached at jconnolly@thebulletin.us

LINK: [link to www.thebulletin.us]
Anonymous Coward
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United States
12/04/2008 10:50 PM
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Re: WILL OBAMA BE PRESIDENT? Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth
bump
why? we have 9962153645987 threads on the same fucking subject


... And everyone of those threads says it a little differently. You can learn from each one.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 395434




bump


.
sherry
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12/04/2008 11:09 PM
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Re: WILL OBAMA BE PRESIDENT? Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth
Even though Obama is president and that is not going to change lets just say for the sake of argument that he was not born here.

Ok so what, i believe the constitution is what states a person must be a natural born citizen.

Since we have been shitting on the constitution for the past 8 years while the OP has been silent why make a big deal out of it now?
 Quoting: TomGuadalupe 559040



I mean, compared to the torture and disdain heaped upon that sacred document over the last eight years "just a piece of paper George Bush, let me remind you" I don't give a rats ass where our President elect was born. Mars would be fine, he's a real American and our current ruler is not.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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12/04/2008 11:21 PM
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Re: WILL OBAMA BE PRESIDENT? Hawaii Hospitals no record of birth
Even though Obama is president and that is not going to change lets just say for the sake of argument that he was not born here.

Ok so what, i believe the constitution is what states a person must be a natural born citizen.

Since we have been shitting on the constitution for the past 8 years while the OP has been silent why make a big deal out of it now?



I mean, compared to the torture and disdain heaped upon that sacred document over the last eight years "just a piece of paper George Bush, let me remind you" I don't give a rats ass where our President elect was born. Mars would be fine, he's a real American and our current ruler is not.
 Quoting: sherry 431562


Been hitting the sherry again, Sherry?

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