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There are No "Victims"

 
tootsie

User ID: 524455
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12/30/2008 12:42 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
So if you get blown up by a terrorist or stabbed by a junkie, just remember to take it well because you're not a victim.

It's easy to say shit from the comfort of your own home but when you are in the real world, the truth is that there are victims.
 Quoting: MercurialStorm

applause
Anonymous Coward
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12/30/2008 12:43 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
nice fluff.

Getting one's rights taken away is what we all define as "victimization". And it doesn't exist yet you admit it does?

Are you saying that we, in some cases, deserve these rights being taken away or did something to warrant being raped?

This post is full of intellectual contradictions, though it's appealing to the knee-jerk emotions of the new-agers.
 Quoting: iiicp 572398




Right on, brother!

It's a brainwash by the victimizers.

It's a partial truth marketed as an absolute.

Thinking people need apply.
Canuck

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12/30/2008 12:45 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
If you got to the place in the first place where you had a need to make that choice then ask yourself the question: What is it that you did "wrong" leading up to this?



Most likely you did something "right" to get to that place of suffering. Did Jesus do something "wrong"? Did he have bad karma?
How do you know that when your freedom is threatened, you aren't taking that same role on as a pawn of God's plan and you shouldn't defend yourself, like Jesus didn't?

Sorry, I just find your post arrogant and self-serving.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 572398



There is no wrong and there is no right, there are just lessons to be learned by us and others with whom we come in contact during our lifetimes.

Don't you see... we cannot make mistakes this is a learning experience for us and God's plan is OUR plan.
“I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as fraud.”
CARL JUNG IN 1919

"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those who don't have it." - George Bernard Shaw

Cree proverb:
Only after the last tree has been cut down, only after the last river has been poisoned, only after the last fish has been caught, only then will you find, that money cannot be eaten.

"Mankind's true moral test, its fundamental test (which lies deeply buried from view) consists of its attitude towards those who are at its mercy - animals."
-Milan Kundera, "The Unbearable Lightness of Being" (1984)
Azure' (OP)

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12/30/2008 12:46 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
So if you get blown up by a terrorist or stabbed by a junkie, just remember to take it well because you're not a victim.
 Quoting: MercurialStorm

It is *Your Choice*

It's easy to say shit from the comfort of your own home but when you are in the real world, the truth is that there are victims.
 Quoting: MercurialStorm

You can attempt to judge me, but you have absolutely nothing to go on - the fact of the matter is that you have *no idea* about my life experiences (not to mention any of my others.)
Again, *you* get to Choose about the Victim Consciousness.

Azure'
Life is All there Is. What are you doing in It? What have you done in It? What will you do in It? Eternally On...
Anonymous Coward
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12/30/2008 12:47 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
Note that I used the word 'wrong' in parentheses - and so-doing I was implying that the concepts of 'right' and 'wrong' are *subjective*. It is a matter of Perspective, do you see?

Azure'
 Quoting: Azure'


Yeah, I got it... again you posture from your mighty level of consciousness.

What I'm saying is how do you discern from "victimization" you have chosen from what you have not?

Am I supposed to contemplate what I have done "wrong" when an armed intruder invades my home or should I just shoot him?

Or is this contemplation on if I'm perceiving this event correctly only reserved for situations that aren't life-threatening?
tootsie

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12/30/2008 12:49 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
OP you can go back to your lightworker thread now
Canuck

User ID: 582375
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12/30/2008 12:52 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
So if you get blown up by a terrorist or stabbed by a junkie, just remember to take it well because you're not a victim.

It's easy to say shit from the comfort of your own home but when you are in the real world, the truth is that there are victims.
 Quoting: MercurialStorm



So everyone should stay at home and not join the military then? Are those that join up to fight forced to do so?

The point is that those who are victims allow themselves to be victims... why can you not see this? Personal responsibility and free will allow us to be or not be whatever we desire.

Nobody has to go to war and be killed it is a personal choice, and what you may or may not believe, is that it was a choice made at a spiritual level.
“I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as fraud.”
CARL JUNG IN 1919

"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those who don't have it." - George Bernard Shaw

Cree proverb:
Only after the last tree has been cut down, only after the last river has been poisoned, only after the last fish has been caught, only then will you find, that money cannot be eaten.

"Mankind's true moral test, its fundamental test (which lies deeply buried from view) consists of its attitude towards those who are at its mercy - animals."
-Milan Kundera, "The Unbearable Lightness of Being" (1984)
Anonymous Coward
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12/30/2008 12:52 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
Don't you see... we cannot make mistakes this is a learning experience for us and God's plan is OUR plan.
 Quoting: Canuck


I agree. Which is why the over-analysis in this thread is a waste of time.

I'm not going to contemplate if I deserve the suffering or not before I beat someone's ass that violates my right to self-determination.. regardless if how I've perceived the "event" isn't up to Azure's standards
Anonymous Coward
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12/30/2008 12:54 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
Bump for truth.


GLP needs as many of these threads as possible.
Anonymous Coward
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12/30/2008 12:55 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
If you got to the place in the first place where you had a need to make that choice then ask yourself the question: What is it that you did "wrong" leading up to this?



Most likely you did something "right" to get to that place of suffering. Did Jesus do something "wrong"? Did he have bad karma?
How do you know that when your freedom is threatened, you aren't taking that same role on as a pawn of God's plan and you shouldn't defend yourself, like Jesus didn't?

Sorry, I just find your post arrogant and self-serving.



There is no wrong and there is no right, there are just lessons to be learned by us and others with whom we come in contact during our lifetimes.

Don't you see... we cannot make mistakes this is a learning experience for us and God's plan is OUR plan.
 Quoting: Canuck



"There is no wrong and there is no right" - don't you have a conscience? Our conscience and compassion tell us when things are wrong. It seems you've been reading the SETH channellings too much. I haven't found anything worthy of "heart and soul" (love) in those books. The "there is no wrong/right theory" was dreamed up by the perpetrators, don't you see? There are definitely innocent victims (i.e. child abuse). The rest of their lives have to be spent in trying to overcome it. That's a real waste of potential.
Azure' (OP)

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Netherlands
12/30/2008 01:01 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
Yeah, I got it... again you posture from your mighty level of consciousness.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 572398

Interesting how you perceive things. Perhaps you might want to ask yourself why you see things this way.
If you really choose to believe nonsense like this then I don't think there's much point is us continueing our conversation.

Am I supposed to contemplate what I have done "wrong" when an armed intruder invades my home or should I just shoot him?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 572398

You can contemplate such things as and when it best serves/suites you. If it is at the time of the event and it serves you then all power to you. I say this because in some cases it can actually completely diffuse the situation.
There are many ways in mich to deal with adversity and physically-threatening situations. Again you have a Choice; however, one thing that will make a whole lot of difference - whether in the short-term or the long-term - is *how* you Choose to perceive the situation, and possibly all situations...

Or is this contemplation on if I'm perceiving this event correctly only reserved for situations that aren't life-threatening?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 572398

Your Choice
I am talking about things which apply across the board.

Azure'
Life is All there Is. What are you doing in It? What have you done in It? What will you do in It? Eternally On...
S.

User ID: 572425
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12/30/2008 01:03 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
So if you get blown up by a terrorist or stabbed by a junkie, just remember to take it well because you're not a victim.

It's easy to say shit from the comfort of your own home but when you are in the real world, the truth is that there are victims.
 Quoting: MercurialStorm


I feel that this mind-set by OP of "no victims" is a cop-out. In other words, a justification for people being raped and murdered, etc.

I feel there has to be a balance in all things. For some things (like infantcide or rape, etc. ) there is no justification. Even if "on the other side" one agrees to paying his or her karmetic debt, and then on "this side" forgetting that "agreement" so that they may carry out the agreement is akin to extreme ignorance and a cold heart, and gives license to do anything to our fellow humans in the name of karma and/or "life lessons". Aren't there SOME things we already KNOW inside that would prevent us from murdering and rape without having to experience them?

Remember there's BALANCE in all things.

JMHO!
No matter how many cookies you consult, you will find that love is our greatest fortune. ~ Leigh Standley
Azure' (OP)

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12/30/2008 01:10 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
I feel that this mind-set by OP of "no victims" is a cop-out. In other words, a justification for people being raped and murdered, etc.

I feel there has to be a balance in all things. For some things (like infantcide or rape, etc. ) there is no justification. Even if "on the other side" one agrees to paying his or her karmetic debt, and then on "this side" forgetting that "agreement" so that they may carry out the agreement is akin to extreme ignorance and a cold heart, and gives license to do anything to our fellow humans in the name of karma and/or "life lessons". Aren't there SOME things we already KNOW inside that would prevent us from murdering and rape without having to experience them?

Remember there's BALANCE in all things.

JMHO!
 Quoting: S.


Thank you for your input.

I feel that this mind-set by OP of "no victims" is a cop-out. In other words, a justification for people being raped and murdered, etc.
 Quoting: S.


If you read what I've said then you'll see that I state that there is no 'justificaiton' for these things.

One needn't 'live out' one's Karma. If you Choose to then you are only beating yourself up. Many souls have been duped into believing it is the "only way". It is not. It is a symptom of lack of Self-Love, but we all make "mistakes".

Azure'
Life is All there Is. What are you doing in It? What have you done in It? What will you do in It? Eternally On...
S.

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12/30/2008 01:16 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
If you read what I've said then you'll see that I state that there is no 'justificaiton' for these things.

One needn't 'live out' one's Karma. If you Choose to then you are only beating yourself up. Many souls have been duped into believing it is the "only way". It is not. It is a symptom of lack of Self-Love, but we all make "mistakes".

Azure'
 Quoting: Azure'


But how does this (above) fit in with "there are no victims"? If a person is "duped into believing it is the only way, isn't that saying outright that this person is a victim?

S.
No matter how many cookies you consult, you will find that love is our greatest fortune. ~ Leigh Standley
Canuck

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12/30/2008 01:18 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
Don't you see... we cannot make mistakes this is a learning experience for us and God's plan is OUR plan.


I agree. Which is why the over-analysis in this thread is a waste of time.

I'm not going to contemplate if I deserve the suffering or not before I beat someone's ass that violates my right to self-determination.. regardless if how I've perceived the "event" isn't up to Azure's standards
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 572398



With all due respect AC, I believe you are misinterpreting Azure's intentions regarding this thread.

She has quite rightly pointed out that many of us allow ourselves to become victims for whatever reasons... Would our world be in the situations it is now if we had perhaps thought a little more about what problems we could be setting ourselves up for by the choices and decisions we made?

Some of us have allowed our medical system to take over the care and control of our own bodies... how foolish this is. Now we are faced with people on drugs which deal with the symptoms instead of curing our illness. The sad part is that we happily pop pills and pay the money to do this. The solution would have been to eat properly, exercise and help our own bodies heal, as they were created to do.

Some of us have become self-indulgent and lazy... we don't want to do anything which will seem like work... so we have instant or fast food, the ingredients of which are killing us slowly, which of course sends us to the doctor so that he can give us a pill.

Some of us want things now, immediately. We don't want to wait until we have earned the money to buy it outright, we charge it!! Then we become overloaded with debt and the credit card companies hound us. Are we the victims? Who brought this on us.

Azure is trying to promote discussion on the subject of victimization and personally, and this is my opinion only, I think it's high time that we take personal responsibility for our own problems and not foist them on the other guy, because it's easier to blame someone else for our plight than to admit we made the wrong choices.

The most important thing we can do amongst ourselves is to honour each other's beliefs and opinions, notwithstanding we do not agree with them.

Blessings to you AC, I have every hope that our world will survive and we will come to love and honour each other as an extension of the self.

Canuck
“I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as fraud.”
CARL JUNG IN 1919

"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those who don't have it." - George Bernard Shaw

Cree proverb:
Only after the last tree has been cut down, only after the last river has been poisoned, only after the last fish has been caught, only then will you find, that money cannot be eaten.

"Mankind's true moral test, its fundamental test (which lies deeply buried from view) consists of its attitude towards those who are at its mercy - animals."
-Milan Kundera, "The Unbearable Lightness of Being" (1984)
Azure' (OP)

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12/30/2008 01:19 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
But how does this (above) fit in with "there are no victims"? If a person is "duped into believing it is the only way, isn't that saying outright that this person is a victim?

S.
 Quoting: S.


If that is the way you choose to see it.
Do you not think it's possible to be duped *and* not be a 'victim' at the same time?
Life is All there Is. What are you doing in It? What have you done in It? What will you do in It? Eternally On...
Azure' (OP)

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12/30/2008 01:21 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
Double post - I deleted the text in this one - GLP must be lagging...
Life is All there Is. What are you doing in It? What have you done in It? What will you do in It? Eternally On...
Anonymous Coward
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12/30/2008 01:25 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
It's simple. It's zen.


As you move up through the layers of consciousness you do indeed realize at all is as it should be, and that there is no black/white, good/evil, lower/higher. We are all one dancing through this strange reality.
Anonymous Coward
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12/30/2008 01:26 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
Does karma make people stupid or do people make karma stupid?
MercurialStorm

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12/30/2008 01:28 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
So if you get blown up by a terrorist or stabbed by a junkie, just remember to take it well because you're not a victim.

It is *Your Choice*


It's easy to say shit from the comfort of your own home but when you are in the real world, the truth is that there are victims.

You can attempt to judge me, but you have absolutely nothing to go on - the fact of the matter is that you have *no idea* about my life experiences (not to mention any of my others.)
Again, *you* get to Choose about the Victim Consciousness.

Azure'
 Quoting: Azure'


I never judged you. I don't know you.

I just disagreed with your opinion.

No one chooses to be hurt.

That's why they are victims.

Your perception of what choice is .. is flawed.
Azure' (OP)

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12/30/2008 01:31 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
With all due respect AC, I believe you are misinterpreting Azure's intentions regarding this thread.

She has quite rightly pointed out that many of us allow ourselves to become victims for whatever reasons... Would our world be in the situations it is now if we had perhaps thought a little more about what problems we could be setting ourselves up for by the choices and decisions we made?

Some of us have allowed our medical system to take over the care and control of our own bodies... how foolish this is. Now we are faced with people on drugs which deal with the symptoms instead of curing our illness. The sad part is that we happily pop pills and pay the money to do this. The solution would have been to eat properly, exercise and help our own bodies heal, as they were created to do.

Some of us have become self-indulgent and lazy... we don't want to do anything which will seem like work... so we have instant or fast food, the ingredients of which are killing us slowly, which of course sends us to the doctor so that he can give us a pill.

Some of us want things now, immediately. We don't want to wait until we have earned the money to buy it outright, we charge it!! Then we become overloaded with debt and the credit card companies hound us. Are we the victims? Who brought this on us.

Azure is trying to promote discussion on the subject of victimization and personally, and this is my opinion only, I think it's high time that we take personal responsibility for our own problems and not foist them on the other guy, because it's easier to blame someone else for our plight than to admit we made the wrong choices.

The most important thing we can do amongst ourselves is to honour each other's beliefs and opinions, notwithstanding we do not agree with them.

Blessings to you AC, I have every hope that our world will survive and we will come to love and honour each other as an extension of the self.

Canuck
 Quoting: Canuck


Well-stated, Canuck.

Now, to be clear, for all those who choose to misinterpret the spirit in which I write: I do so with *Absolute* Respect for each of you. Of course, each of your opinions is your Divine Right. I honour each one of you, no matter what.

Azure'
Life is All there Is. What are you doing in It? What have you done in It? What will you do in It? Eternally On...
Azure' (OP)

User ID: 261589
Netherlands
12/30/2008 01:32 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
Does karma make people stupid or do people make karma stupid?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 582694


Try becoming Karma and then you will know, though I wouldn't advise it.

:-)
Life is All there Is. What are you doing in It? What have you done in It? What will you do in It? Eternally On...
Anonymous Coward
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12/30/2008 01:34 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
Does karma make people stupid or do people make karma stupid?


Try becoming Karma and then you will know, though I wouldn't advise it.

:-)
 Quoting: Azure'



good advice. know that from personal experience do ya?
S.

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12/30/2008 01:35 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
But how does this (above) fit in with "there are no victims"? If a person is "duped into believing it is the only way, isn't that saying outright that this person is a victim?

S.


If that is the way you choose to see it.
Do you not think it's possible to be duped *and* not be a 'victim' at the same time?
 Quoting: Azure'


Ahhh...you are into paradoxes, then?

I see that in spirit, all paradoxes are rectified. I both agree and disagree. I am this and that, not this OR that.

I do feel that we can and should resort to neutralizing karma. When we agree to be a perpetrator (to help someone else learn) or a victim (to help ourselves to learn) we are continuing the wheel of karma. Eventually we may come to realize that there is a better way to live and to stop perpetuating karma.

I say that would be to live from the heart rather than the head. I suppose these earth lessons help us to see the difference. Until it is no longer necessary. Then and only then will we be living in a higher consciousness. After all, it is easy to love those who love us. The difficult task is to love our "supposed" enemies. :-)

hf
No matter how many cookies you consult, you will find that love is our greatest fortune. ~ Leigh Standley
Jackinthebox

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12/30/2008 01:36 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
If there were no victims, there would be no prisons.
When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, "Come!" I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand.

Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, "A quart of wheat for a day's wages, and three quarts of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!"


-Revelation 6:5, 6:6
Azure' (OP)

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12/30/2008 01:37 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
I never judged you. I don't know you.
 Quoting: MercurialStorm

Then, "It's easy to say shit from the comfort of your own home but when you are in the real world, the truth is that there are victims.", does not apply to me.

No one chooses to be hurt.
 Quoting: MercurialStorm

Mostly correct. Many misguided souls do, however.

That's why they are victims.
 Quoting: MercurialStorm

...and that is why there will continue to be.

Your perception of what choice is .. is flawed.
 Quoting: MercurialStorm

Do elaborate...
Life is All there Is. What are you doing in It? What have you done in It? What will you do in It? Eternally On...
Canuck

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12/30/2008 01:39 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
If you got to the place in the first place where you had a need to make that choice then ask yourself the question: What is it that you did "wrong" leading up to this?



Most likely you did something "right" to get to that place of suffering. Did Jesus do something "wrong"? Did he have bad karma?
How do you know that when your freedom is threatened, you aren't taking that same role on as a pawn of God's plan and you shouldn't defend yourself, like Jesus didn't?

Sorry, I just find your post arrogant and self-serving.



There is no wrong and there is no right, there are just lessons to be learned by us and others with whom we come in contact during our lifetimes.

Don't you see... we cannot make mistakes this is a learning experience for us and God's plan is OUR plan.



"There is no wrong and there is no right" - don't you have a conscience? Our conscience and compassion tell us when things are wrong. It seems you've been reading the SETH channellings too much. I haven't found anything worthy of "heart and soul" (love) in those books. The "there is no wrong/right theory" was dreamed up by the perpetrators, don't you see? There are definitely innocent victims (i.e. child abuse). The rest of their lives have to be spent in trying to overcome it. That's a real waste of potential.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 289271


Okay AC, how about this "there is what works and what doesn't work". That more acceptable to you?

Didn't read the Seth channellings, for some reason they didn't resound with me. But I did read Neal Walsch's "Conversations with God". If you haven't you should attempt to. When I say attempt, I mean that you will only be able to read, accept and understand if you are truly ready.

What you seem to be unable to accept is that our purpose on this earth plane is to learn and experience together with those around us. Also what you seem to be unable to accept is that as spirit, we are immortal and unable to be damaged. I believe that there are spirit-beings who have chosen to come to this earth plane to learn through suffering and through making others suffer.

Do you believe in reincarnation? Do you believe that before coming to this place we have pre-written what our lives will be like, what we will accomplish, when we will die, how we will die?

AC no soul who comes to this earth ever leaves without attaining it's potential and purpose.... can you accept this? The purpose of a child dying has profound reprecussions on everyone around it... they have learned lessons through this child's short life and death. Does this make sense to you at all?
“I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as fraud.”
CARL JUNG IN 1919

"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those who don't have it." - George Bernard Shaw

Cree proverb:
Only after the last tree has been cut down, only after the last river has been poisoned, only after the last fish has been caught, only then will you find, that money cannot be eaten.

"Mankind's true moral test, its fundamental test (which lies deeply buried from view) consists of its attitude towards those who are at its mercy - animals."
-Milan Kundera, "The Unbearable Lightness of Being" (1984)
Azure' (OP)

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Netherlands
12/30/2008 01:44 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
Ahhh...you are into paradoxes, then?
 Quoting: S.

I see no paradox.

I do feel that we can and should resort to neutralizing karma. When we agree to be a perpetrator (to help someone else learn) or a victim (to help ourselves to learn) we are continuing the wheel of karma. Eventually we may come to realize that there is a better way to live and to stop perpetuating karma.
 Quoting: S.

Yes, it is called Unity Consciosuness. It's a little tough to be it 'down here', but not totally "impossible".

I say that would be to live from the heart rather than the head. I suppose these earth lessons help us to see the difference. Until it is no longer necessary. Then and only then will we be living in a higher consciousness. After all, it is easy to love those who love us. The difficult task is to love our "supposed" enemies. :-)
 Quoting: S.

That is a more constructive suggestion than what humanity has chosen thus-far.

We can Choose Absolute Love if wish. It is not "hard".

Another quote I enjoy:
"Argue for your limitations and they are yours."

Azure'
Life is All there Is. What are you doing in It? What have you done in It? What will you do in It? Eternally On...
Canuck

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12/30/2008 01:46 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
If you read what I've said then you'll see that I state that there is no 'justificaiton' for these things.

One needn't 'live out' one's Karma. If you Choose to then you are only beating yourself up. Many souls have been duped into believing it is the "only way". It is not. It is a symptom of lack of Self-Love, but we all make "mistakes".

Azure'


But how does this (above) fit in with "there are no victims"? If a person is "duped into believing it is the only way, isn't that saying outright that this person is a victim?

S.
 Quoting: S.


There is always free-will and personal responsibility. If someone told you to kill someone else or else they were going to kill you... would you do it?

Whatever path you take, you use your free-will and personal responsibility. You can choose not to kill another, you can choose to kill the other or you can choose to be killed, or you can fight to your death. Do you equate this with being a victim??? So you chose to kill the other person, you justify this by saying you were a victim?
“I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as fraud.”
CARL JUNG IN 1919

"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those who don't have it." - George Bernard Shaw

Cree proverb:
Only after the last tree has been cut down, only after the last river has been poisoned, only after the last fish has been caught, only then will you find, that money cannot be eaten.

"Mankind's true moral test, its fundamental test (which lies deeply buried from view) consists of its attitude towards those who are at its mercy - animals."
-Milan Kundera, "The Unbearable Lightness of Being" (1984)
Anonymous Coward
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12/30/2008 01:50 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
Canuck. You realise of course you are arguing with a male disinfo agent. His BS is mostly scripted and he is not allowed to change his mind. Give it up. He's a souless 'tard.

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