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There are No "Victims"

 
Azure' (OP)

User ID: 261589
Netherlands
12/30/2008 08:47 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
Azure, I hope to gain the wisdom you have displayed on this board! Thanks for starting it, and thanks for showing us how to deal patiently with everyone.

What practical advice can you give me to stop allowing frustration to arise when dealing with the very unenlightened?

Canuck, feel free to weigh in as well. :)
 Quoting: Liquid Reality



Thanks for your kind words too, LR.

As for frustration you feel, remember that it can only "get to you" if you allow it to. This may sound rather simple yet not so easy to do, but it is a very practical principle that is all about owning your own Power.

Other things that may well affect one (in terms of frustration and various other ways, inclluding physical) occasioanlly are pyschic attacks. My advice in this regard is: Be careful since there are players out there who have some very nasty stuff that they can throw at you. Do not underestimate them. One thing which can work well is what can be referred to as a mirror shield (which one can project all around the body - all your bodies - no holes on top either), just be careful with it, just like one would with a physical mirror.
There are other aspects of your Self that will also assist and they will have suggestions for you.

As for general unpleasantness one can experience with some people - simply don't engage them and especially don't get caught up in their games. It is not worth your energy and what you engage also has the potential to lower your frequency. Choose your communication lines well and always be on your guard... (Something which unfortunately is required in most enviroments on this planet.)

If you fully own your Power then not much will be able to touch you,

Azure'
Life is All there Is. What are you doing in It? What have you done in It? What will you do in It? Eternally On...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 582779
United States
12/30/2008 08:48 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
Even child molestation victims?
 Quoting: starbattle 498149


OP wont have any answer to this, nor any answer to a 3 day old baby being thrown against a brick wall or burned with cigarettes. OP will only spout idealistic philosophy without real life indications of any practicality.

OP is in a manic state, if OP were in a different state, like had a depressive illness that causes constant intense maliase, or starvation from no food, or malnutrition causing severe suffering, OP would not type what OP typed. OP is coming from a manic suffering free state. suffering free states delude people into thinking they are "doing something" to achieve the state they had before they ever even started.

OP is not intelligent enough to understand and cannot be conversed with.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 582779
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12/30/2008 08:50 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
OP is programmed to make eccentric false statements such as "it will only hurt you if you let it get to you", while OP is in a suffering-free state

if OP was suffering, OP would notice that this is not true, and no matter what thoughts or mental exercises are done, suffering persists. OP is in a manic, suffering free state, with no major illness or lack of nutrition and need, plus has low intelligence. Do not attempt to converse with OP. Futile. Its intelligence is low.
Azure' (OP)

User ID: 261589
Netherlands
12/30/2008 08:54 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
None of what the OP states is practical, it doesnt work. OP is a manic person as well who doesnt suffer at all. the "suffering" she has is tiny and not real suffering. that explains the post. OP will either ignore the post or reply with nonsense/disinfo. OP cant answer to the flaws of her false post.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 582779


You should know that I write only out of Absolute Respect for everyone here but, quite frankly, and quite clearly, you do not know what you are 'talking' about. Also, you have clearly not read everything I have written and if you have then you prove even further what I have just 'said'.

If you have come here to argue then it will not be with me.

Azure'
Life is All there Is. What are you doing in It? What have you done in It? What will you do in It? Eternally On...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 582868
United States
12/30/2008 08:55 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
Azure, I hope to gain the wisdom you have displayed on this board! Thanks for starting it, and thanks for showing us how to deal patiently with everyone.

What practical advice can you give me to stop allowing frustration to arise when dealing with the very unenlightened?

Canuck, feel free to weigh in as well. :)



Thanks for your kind words too, LR.

As for frustration you feel, remember that it can only "get to you" if you allow it to. This may sound rather simple yet not so easy to do, but it is a very practical principle that is all about owning your own Power.

Other things that may well affect one (in terms of frustration and various other ways, inclluding physical) occasioanlly are pyschic attacks. My advice in this regard is: Be careful since there are players out there who have some very nasty stuff that they can throw at you. Do not underestimate them. One thing which can work well is what can be referred to as a mirror shield (which one can project all around the body - all your bodies - no holes on top either), just be careful with it, just like one would with a physical mirror.
There are other aspects of your Self that will also assist and they will have suggestions for you.

As for general unpleasantness one can experience with some people - simply don't engage them and especially don't get caught up in their games. It is not worth your energy and what you engage also has the potential to lower your frequency. Choose your communication lines well and always be on your guard... (Something which unfortunately is required in most enviroments on this planet.)

If you fully own your Power then not much will be able to touch you,

Azure'
 Quoting: Azure'

I hope you die soon you discusting fucking child molesting pervert.
FallenAwaken

User ID: 582942
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12/30/2008 08:56 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
OTAY..
Well I guess we're going to find out if that is true or NOT..Pretty soon, eh....
"Pray for solace..Pray for resolve..Pray for a savior..Pray for deliverance..Some kind of purpose..A glimpse of a LIGHT in this VOID OF EXISTENCE..Now witness the END of an age..Hope dies in hands of believers..Who seek the truth in the LIAR'S EYE"

"The greatest TRICK the Devil ever pulled was not convincing the world he doesn't exist..But convincing it that he is GOD"

"I have no pleasure in any man who despises music. It is no invention of ours: It is a gift of GOD. I place it next to theology. Satan hates music: He knows how it drives the EVIL spirit OUT of US."
- Martin Luther


"What have I done?..Where have I come from?..When I burnt the backs with the SUN through a GLASS..Did I SEAL the loss that's become me?.. Feeling undone..What have I become? ..When I turned my back on you..I turned my back on MYSELF and became this MACHINE"

"What you IGNORE now..Will come OUT of YOU later"

"Stones to throw at my Creator..
MASOCHISTS to which I cater..You don't need to bother..I don't need to be..I'll keep slipping farther..
But once I hold on..I won't let go 'til it BLEEDS"
Tryptamind™

User ID: 582754
Canada
12/30/2008 08:56 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
tagged
See ya.
Azure' (OP)

User ID: 261589
Netherlands
12/30/2008 08:59 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
Another quote I resonate with:
"The original sin is to limit the Is. Don't."
~ Richard Bach, Illusions

For those who might feel like a bit of reading and 'poetry':
[link to www.thegreatillusion.com]

En-Joy (Joy being a Choice),
Azure'
Life is All there Is. What are you doing in It? What have you done in It? What will you do in It? Eternally On...
Canuck

User ID: 582375
Canada
12/30/2008 09:07 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
OP is programmed to make eccentric false statements such as "it will only hurt you if you let it get to you", while OP is in a suffering-free state

if OP was suffering, OP would notice that this is not true, and no matter what thoughts or mental exercises are done, suffering persists. OP is in a manic, suffering free state, with no major illness or lack of nutrition and need, plus has low intelligence. Do not attempt to converse with OP. Futile. Its intelligence is low.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 582779



Dear AC,

I fear you are directing valuable energy which could be better utilized by letting go of whatever it is that hurts you so intensly that you feel you have to hurt, in this instance Azure', to heal yourself.

When I ask our Creator to heal me and I do, every day; that request is made with the belief that healing sent to me by Him, will reach every single human being on this planet without exception. I ask for this even for those who may have wronged me or who hate or don't like me, because these souls are my family and part of my Creator of whom I also am a part.

Perhaps Azure' does not suffer because she doesn't expect to suffer and therefore does not attract suffering. Have you ever looked at life this way? The energy or vibrations we put out, return to us, that is something which is inescapable in the universe. If you look for positive, you will attract positive, if you look for negative that is what you will get.

Blessings to you AC.

Have a joyous, beautiful New Year and let that go which does not serve you any longer, the anger and hate which can not ever make you happy.

Canuck
“I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as fraud.”
CARL JUNG IN 1919

"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those who don't have it." - George Bernard Shaw

Cree proverb:
Only after the last tree has been cut down, only after the last river has been poisoned, only after the last fish has been caught, only then will you find, that money cannot be eaten.

"Mankind's true moral test, its fundamental test (which lies deeply buried from view) consists of its attitude towards those who are at its mercy - animals."
-Milan Kundera, "The Unbearable Lightness of Being" (1984)
Liquid Reality

User ID: 557010
United States
12/30/2008 09:12 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
One thing which can work well is what can be referred to as a mirror shield (which one can project all around the body - all your bodies - no holes on top either), just be careful with it, just like one would with a physical mirror.
There are other aspects of your Self that will also assist and they will have suggestions for you.

As for general unpleasantness one can experience with some people - simply don't engage them and especially don't get caught up in their games. It is not worth your energy and what you engage also has the potential to lower your frequency. Choose your communication lines well and always be on your guard... (Something which unfortunately is required in most enviroments on this planet.)

If you fully own your Power then not much will be able to touch you,

Azure'
 Quoting: Azure'

How does one construct a mirror shield? Is it simply willed into existence? Unfortunately I'm unable to sense psychic attacks, assuming any have been directed at me. Although I do seem to be getting increasingly sensitive about the negativity in other people.
Fools must learn from experience.
Azure' (OP)

User ID: 261589
Netherlands
12/30/2008 09:19 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
How does one construct a mirror shield? Is it simply willed into existence? Unfortunately I'm unable to sense psychic attacks, assuming any have been directed at me. Although I do seem to be getting increasingly sensitive about the negativity in other people.
 Quoting: Liquid Reality


Projection. Direction of Energy - in this case for defensive purposes. I would recommend 'playing' with energy ('etheric', Chi, Ki, etc, there are of course many kinds) a bit to get to know it better - eventaully you will sense it and perhaps see it. The more proficient one becomes in this, the easier such a projection will be. It all begins with the mind, of course, and as such visualisation is key, just like anything that is to be constructed it first requires some sort of visualisation.

Azure'
Life is All there Is. What are you doing in It? What have you done in It? What will you do in It? Eternally On...
Liquid Reality

User ID: 557010
United States
12/30/2008 09:25 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
How does one construct a mirror shield? Is it simply willed into existence? Unfortunately I'm unable to sense psychic attacks, assuming any have been directed at me. Although I do seem to be getting increasingly sensitive about the negativity in other people.


Projection. Direction of Energy - in this case for defensive purposes. I would recommend 'playing' with energy ('etheric', Chi, Ki, etc, there are of course many kinds) a bit to get to know it better - eventaully you will sense it and perhaps see it. The more proficient one becomes in this, the easier such a projection will be. It all begins with the mind, of course, and as such visualisation is key, just like anything that is to be constructed it first requires some sort of visualisation.

Azure'
 Quoting: Azure'


Thank you, Azure. I don't understand, but I know the Infinite will show it to me when I'm ready.
Fools must learn from experience.
Azure' (OP)

User ID: 261589
Netherlands
12/30/2008 09:30 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
Thank you, Azure. I don't understand, but I know the Infinite will show it to me when I'm ready.
 Quoting: Liquid Reality


' pleasure, but indeed things such as this are not easily explained through forums like this.

I wish you all the best with your experiences.

Blessings,
Azure'
Life is All there Is. What are you doing in It? What have you done in It? What will you do in It? Eternally On...
bitchfromhell
User ID: 473633
United States
12/31/2008 12:48 AM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
My stalker gets out of prison in about 3 years, he will, no doubt, be back to kill me as he promised. How do you turn the other cheek on that one?



What are you going to do when he gets out?
 Quoting: Canuck

What do you think? I doubt he will leave me any choices.
Liquid Reality

User ID: 557010
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12/31/2008 06:21 AM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
My stalker gets out of prison in about 3 years, he will, no doubt, be back to kill me as he promised. How do you turn the other cheek on that one?



What are you going to do when he gets out?

What do you think? I doubt he will leave me any choices.
 Quoting: bitchfromhell 473633

Everyone has choices. No one can give them to you, or take them away from you.
Fools must learn from experience.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 289271
Canada
12/31/2008 10:41 AM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
no one is perfect, but some are more "perfect" than others - those who are on the side of love, truth, goodness, justice.



In the Creator's eyes we are all perfect.... every last one of us. He/She/It looks at us as a parent looks fondly at its child that it has brought into this world.

The Creator hopes we will practice truth, love, honesty and goodness, but loves us notwithstanding. The Creator doesn't get worked up at our games even when they become violent and destructive for the simple reason.... He knows we will always return home to be with Her.
 Quoting: Canuck






Where we find ourselves in the spirit world after bodily death depends on how we have lived here on earth. If we sowed suffering for others here, we reap it for ourselves there on lower, "hellish" levels of consciousness, until we decide to rise, by our own hard work, into higher states that are all about love, goodness, truth, beauty. All masks can be seen through on "the other side", and we are placed (or place ourselves) in the appropriate vibratory state or "sphere", containing like-minded souls who are attracted there. It is the law.
Anonymous Coward
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12/31/2008 11:13 AM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
People need compassion. Here's an article I found online:


May 2004

New Age Bullies
by Julia Ingram

Hannah followed New Age thinking for many years. She constructed astrology charts, worked with psychics and thought she knew something about the world. And then her 26-year-old son committed suicide. Prior to that tragedy (most bereavement counselors consider it the hardest loss to face), she believed in the adage: “Everything happens for a reason.” Hannah says, “I no longer believe that, nor do I believe I know anything about why the world works as it does.

“When people said my son died for a reason, or that he was in a better place, or worst of all, that he’d chosen to die,” said Hannah, “I was appalled and furious. It demeaned my son’s death.”

Not only did it demean her son’s death, it minimized her loss.

Hannah’s experience reminded me of a friend who underwent a severe bout of chronic fatigue. She went to see the minister of her “new thought” church, hoping to get some short-term help with shopping and housework. The minister provided less practical support: he promised to help her come to grips with the “lessons” she should learn from the illness. My friend dragged herself home and returned to her bed, feeling alone and ashamed.

During my 36 years as a psychotherapist, I’ve seen many clients who have been victims of people like those Hannah and my friend describe. I call them New Age Bullies — those who, sometimes with the best intentions, repeat spiritual movement shibboleths, with little understanding of how hurtful their advice can be. Some of their favorite clichés are:

It happened for a reason.

Nobody can hurt you without your consent.

I wonder why you created this illness (or experience).

It’s just your karma.

There are no accidents.

There are no victims.

There are no mistakes.

A variant of this behavior is found in the self-bullying people who blame themselves for being victims of a crime, accident, or illness and interpret such misfortunes as evidence of their personal defects or spiritual deficiencies.

I first used the term “New Age Bully” after attending a lecture in the early ‘90s. The speaker, a popular leader in the spiritual movement, recited a New Age nostrum: “We create our own reality.” A woman in the audience responded by recounting how she had taught this “fact” to her seven-year-old daughter. The child had fallen off her new bicycle and skinned her knee. When she ran crying into the house, the mother told her to sit down and think about how she had created that accident. To my shock, the speaker then led the audience in a round of applause for this woman. The message was reinforced: Even children need to learn how everything that happens to them is their own creation.

I jumped up and said, “I think the little girl needed a kiss and a band aid.” When I tried to elaborate, the lecturer cut me off. “Are you a beginner?” he asked and then told me how wrong I was. I sat down, embarrassed and confused. Only later, could I answer that question for myself: I am not a beginner, but a seven-year-old child is. And this self-appointed guru was teaching a belief, not a fact. He had bullied me that evening, and he encouraged others to do the same.

I chose the word “bully” because bullying is about power. In the aftermath of the Columbine High School tragedy, educators, law enforcement officials, and therapists began paying more attention to bullying. Mostly, they deal with malign bullying — the willful and conscious desire to hurt another person. That is bullying at its most destructive. While I have certainly seen examples of such abuse within spiritual circles, I’m also challenging those who push their beliefs on others in an overbearing, dogmatic manner, even when their advice is well-intentioned.

On the other hand, the belief that we create our own reality can be very self-empowering for some people — the psychological equivalent of moving mountains. My clients with strong beliefs that they are accountable for their own lives do much better in their recovery from psychological problems than those who stay stuck in the shame/blame cycle (of self or others.)

Classic books by holistic physicians, such as Bernie Siegel’s Love, Medicine and Miracles and Andrew Weil’s Spontaneous Healing, illustrate the value of empowering beliefs in recovering from illness. Neurologist David Perlmutter, author of the forthcoming The Better Brain Book, writes: “It is the belief that predestined reality can be modified that leads to statistically significantly better outcomes.”

Several years ago, Gen Kelsang Lingpur, now a resident teacher at the Tara Mahayana Buddhist Center in Tucson, was diagnosed with leu-kemia. At the time, she was a business executive from a Catholic background. “My first reaction,” she said, “was grief. I cried a lot and asked, ‘Why me?’ But then I thought, if I have only two years to live, I want them to mean something.”

Her quest for meaning led her to Buddhism, which, in turn, led her to a belief in karma. “I learned that everything comes from the Mind,” she recalled, “but not this [she smiled and pointed to her head] mind. Everything that happens in this life is a direct result of actions from a previous life.” Once she accepted the belief that her illness was the result of her actions in a previous life, she was able, with help from her physician, to heal through Buddhist practices.

So I asked Gen Lingpur how she applied her belief in karma when working with cancer patients. “I never say to them as a group that their cancer is a result of actions from a previous life,” she said. “I don’t know if that is their belief. That would be inappropriate.”

Her distinction is important. It is the reason why affirmations so often fail. Coming to a personally held belief is a process. For some, the insight may come in a flash but, for most of us, it takes work and experience to move from a desire to belief. It would be like skipping to the last page of an instruction manual and missing all the necessary intervening steps for proper assembly. If you are in the first chapter of recovery from childhood sexual abuse, for example, an early stage of recovery is to challenge the commonly shared belief that you somehow “caused” the abuse. This belief does not come from a position of power but from one of self-shame or blame. In my therapeutic practice, I have never seen anyone able to skip over this first task of realizing they were not to blame. Sometimes the only thing these clients are able to do in this early stage is to see that their abuser was to blame.

Some of my fellow therapists express concern that blaming others keeps the client in the victim role. While I don’t want my clients to get stuck there, if that’s what they need to do first, it can be a useful step. To tell a vulnerable client that there are no victims invariably leads them to internalize even more self-blame.

Blaming the Victim

Many people automatically and unconsciously blame themselves for being victims. Counselors who work in a battered women’s shelter or with rape victims know it is a long and arduous process for their clients to reclaim a sense of personal power. It would be utterly cruel to ask an abused woman what she did to create that experience or to suggest that she wasn’t a victim. I assume that most people reading this article would not condone such insensitivity, but there are subtler ways to blame a victim.

A client of mine was in a relationship with a man who shared her spiritual beliefs. At the beginning of our work, she described the relationship in mystical terms. However, she had severe stress symptoms as a direct result of trying to live with his eleven-year-old son who routinely screamed hateful remarks at her.

Her complaints about the boy’s out-of-control behavior and her pleas to her partner to get help for his son were met with disdain. He insisted the problem was her response to the situation. When she told him she was in emotional pain over the child’s behavior, he replied, “No one can hurt you without your permission.” The worst of the stress came from her buying into her partner’s reality — that it was her problem.

I said he sounded like a New Age Bully. He showed no compassion for her pain; he didn’t listen to her complaints or advice; and he shamed her for reacting to the child’s aggressiveness.

Once she stopped blaming herself for being upset and saw that the problem wasn’t her inability to handle whatever the child did, but her partner’s unwillingness to take her complaints seriously or show her any compassion, she ended the relationship. She was now in a place to examine the situation according to her own beliefs.

I encourage clients to carefully examine the belief that one should remain in an abusive relationship or job because of “the lessons to be learned,” as that can be a form of self-bullying.

Why New Age Bullies Do It

New Age Bullies often act from a sincere desire to be helpful. It may also be a defense. Think of a friend who has just suffered a terrible loss or someone who’s been diagnosed with a serious illness to whom you want to say something comforting. Or, someone who seems locked in a destructive pattern and you want to say something to get him to think differently or take charge of his life. The problem is, you can’t know how your words will be received. If they don’t share your beliefs, your advice won’t help. They may feel that you are blaming them or are indifferent to their feelings.

“In blaming or shaming a victim,” Gen Lingpur says of the Buddhist tradition, “you are assuming that the person knew the karma they were creating in a previous life and that they have that knowledge in the present. We don’t know. We can’t know ahead of time what the results of an action will be, nor can we remember what action created the result. It’s sometimes a problem in the Buddhist community when someone says of another’s suffering: ‘It’s just their karma.’ That statement lacks compassion.”

Psychologically, there’s another reason people blame victims. Viki Sharp, a victim advocate for 26 years, explains it this way: “People tend to blame victims because it makes them feel less vulnerable and more in control. A woman leaves her window open one night and a man comes through it and rapes her. The thinking is: ‘She was raped because of something she did — she left her window open and, since I don’t do that, I’m safe.’”

As a practice, I don’t give unsolicited advice because I can’t know for certain what another’s beliefs or vulnerabilities are. Of course, I will offer advice in the context of a therapy session or among friends whose beliefs and experiences are familiar to me.

Gen Lingpur agrees. In her role as a spiritual teacher in a Buddhist community, she finds it appropriate to introduce concepts like karma while leading her students to a deeper understanding of the spiritual belief that there are no accidents, no victims. But it’s also a question of intention, context, and the nature of the relationship. Spiritual teachings can be easily vulgarized and misapplied.

Perhaps we can all learn from what the Buddha purportedly said about belief:

“Believe nothing because a wise person said it. Believe nothing because it is generally held. Believe nothing because it is written. Believe nothing because it is said to be Divine. Believe nothing because someone else believes it. But believe only what you yourself judge to be true.”
Anonymous Coward
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12/31/2008 11:43 AM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
bump
Anonymous Coward
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12/31/2008 11:48 AM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
These are the ramblings of a madwoman.
Anonymous Coward
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12/31/2008 11:50 AM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
Who's a madwoman, the OP?
Anonymous Coward
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12/31/2008 11:53 AM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
Who's a madwoman, the OP?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 289271



yes
Reality is BS

User ID: 569508
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12/31/2008 12:05 PM
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These are the ramblings of a madwoman.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 583295

Don't denigrate that which is beyond your understanding.
Anonymous Coward
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12/31/2008 12:06 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
These are the ramblings of a madwoman.

Don't denigrate that which is beyond your understanding.
 Quoting: Reality is BS



I'm not surprised to hear from you cow boy. Are you here to help prove my point?
bitchfromhell
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12/31/2008 12:09 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
My stalker gets out of prison in about 3 years, he will, no doubt, be back to kill me as he promised. How do you turn the other cheek on that one?



What are you going to do when he gets out?

What do you think? I doubt he will leave me any choices.

Everyone has choices. No one can give them to you, or take them away from you.
 Quoting: Liquid Reality

Yeah, I have the option to die. To die or not to die, that is the question.
Anonymous Coward
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12/31/2008 12:11 PM
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These are the ramblings of a madwoman.

Don't denigrate that which is beyond your understanding.
 Quoting: Reality is BS

This is what ass clowns say when you're not buying their lies. Tool.
Reality is BS

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12/31/2008 12:25 PM
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It is revealing how much negativety is displayed in respondents posts who want to stop this message from going out. The answers are within, and when you start on the path all will be revealed.
Anonymous Coward
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12/31/2008 12:29 PM
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This is what ass clowns say when you're not buying their lies. Tool.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 583303




You are one of the enlightened ones. I bow to your superiority. WOW
.Ajax.

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12/31/2008 12:29 PM
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These are the ramblings of a madwoman.

Don't denigrate that which is beyond your understanding.

This is what ass clowns say when you're not buying their lies. Tool.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 583303

who is asking you to buy anything...?
unless a concept is a taxing thing? (oh yeah, it sure can be!)
It's all pretty much for your consideration...
and I'm sure that is the point!
Cool!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 583303
United States
12/31/2008 12:35 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
That made no sense whatsoever. Go back to your room and take your meds.
.Ajax.

User ID: 580166
United States
12/31/2008 12:42 PM
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Re: There are No "Victims"
That made no sense whatsoever. Go back to your room and take your meds.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 583303

lol!!!

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