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Why the Jews and Muslims fight...

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 276680
New Zealand
01/05/2009 03:30 AM
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Why the Jews and Muslims fight...
I have lived in Israel and also traveled extensively through Jordan, Syria, Egypt and Iran. After many long conversations with both Jewish and Muslim friends I came to understand, IMHO, what the the core of this conflict is all about.

It is not about land or revenge or even hate.

It is about a rock.
This rock: [link to en.wikipedia.org]

Arabs and Jews both acknowledge Abraham as their patriarch and father of their race. The Jews claim to descend from one of his sons, Isaac, while the Arabs claim to descend from his other son Ishmael.

Both the Torah and Koran describe how God told Abraham he would father a nation that would be would bless, and would be his representatives on earth. In order to test Abraham's faithfulness God told him to sacrifice his son on a rock at the very top of Mount Moriah. Abraham prepared the sacrifice but God intervened and stopped him.

The Jews say the son was Isaac, the Arabs say it was Ishmael. However they both agree that the rock is the one currently contained in 'The Dome of the Rock' on the Temple Mount in the center of Jerusalem. Jews claim this was the site of the Holy of Holies within their Temple, and that the Ark of the Covenant rested upon the rock. Muslims claim that Mohamed stood upon that very rock and rose into heaven where he received his final revelations.

For a while I wondered why the Jews prayed to the Western Wall. It is the least impressive of the walls around the mount. But then I was told that they pray there because it is the closest that they can get to the Holy of Holies. They yearn to build the Third Temple.

Each year the Temple Mount Faithful carry the cornerstone they have prepared for the new Temple to the Mount but are turned away by the Israeli authorities. They have every ready. All the instruments, made of pure gold, and priestly garments have been faithfully replicated. The Muslims are terrified that they lose the Dome and the al-Asqua Mosque. They will never accept Jewish control of Jerusalem.

Evangelical christians support Israel partly because the Book of Revelation states that a third temple will be built and the Antichrist will enter it and claim to be God. This triggers that final phase of the Great Tribulation and the return of Christ.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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New Zealand
01/05/2009 03:32 AM
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Re: Why the Jews and Muslims fight...
[link to www.templemountfaithful.org]
Bob Saget
Yeah...yeah and thrice yeah

User ID: 578679
United Kingdom
01/05/2009 03:36 AM

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Re: Why the Jews and Muslims fight...
Sounds about right.
The chariots of God are tens of thousands, and thousands of thousands.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 512151
Canada
01/05/2009 03:36 AM
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Re: Why the Jews and Muslims fight...
Muslims appear to fight with everone

their religion is based in conflict

90%-95% OF ALL THE CONFLICTS ON THIS PLANET TODAY
INVOLVE MUSLIMS FIGHTING NON-MUSLIMS OR EACH OTHER!
There are many trouble spots around the world, but as a general rule, it's easy to make an educated guess at one of the participants: Muslims vs. Jews in "Palestine," Muslims vs. Hindus in Kashmir, Muslims vs. Christians in Africa, Muslims vs. Buddhists in Thailand, Muslims vs. Russians in the Caucasus, etc...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 576814
United States
01/05/2009 03:37 AM
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Re: Why the Jews and Muslims fight...
Don't forget the Philippines.
422730
User ID: 562416
Australia
01/05/2009 03:38 AM
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Re: Why the Jews and Muslims fight...
They might be waiting for the Red Heifer too:

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

...And the politics of that region in regard to resources and international parties interested.
fërú.

User ID: 586262
Mexico
01/05/2009 03:43 AM
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Re: Why the Jews and Muslims fight...
Jews lie since the beginning

God says to sacrifice his primogenitor and only son

that was Ismael who was a only son of Abraham for 14 years then his half brother Issac born and the conflic start when Sara obligate Abraham to send Ismael and Agar to the desert.

Then Issac have 2 twins sons the first one to born was Esau and the second one was Jacob...
Jacob steel the primogeniture lying to his father when Issac was old, blind and dying.

Later Jacob fight with ana anunnakie and force him to bless him.. the anunnakie ask what was his name and then change it to Israel that means the one who fight with god and did not perish...

Jews descent from him...
The 2 primogenitures are with the Arabs because Esau went to his uncle Ismael and married one of his clans women.
  Enki was the real engineer of the human race. He was the Sumerian god of science, engineering, magic, strategy, music, and lovemaking
Bob Saget
Yeah...yeah and thrice yeah

User ID: 578679
United Kingdom
01/05/2009 03:46 AM

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Re: Why the Jews and Muslims fight...
Jews lie since the beginning

God says to sacrifice his primogenitor and only son

that was Ismael who was a only son of Abraham for 14 years then his half brother Issac born and the conflic start when Sara obligate Abraham to send Ismael and Agar to the desert.

Then Issac have 2 twins sons the first one to born was Esau and the second one was Jacob...
Jacob steel the primogeniture lying to his father when Issac was old, blind and dying.

Later Jacob fight with ana anunnakie and force him to bless him.. the anunnakie ask what was his name and then change it to Israel that means the one who fight with god and did not perish...

Jews descent from him...
The 2 primogenitures are with the Arabs because Esau went to his uncle Ismael and married one of his clans women.
 Quoting: fërú.


Sorry, but that's bsflag
The chariots of God are tens of thousands, and thousands of thousands.
fërú.

User ID: 586262
Mexico
01/05/2009 03:49 AM
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Re: Why the Jews and Muslims fight...
Jews lie since the beginning

God says to sacrifice his primogenitor and only son

that was Ismael who was a only son of Abraham for 14 years then his half brother Issac born and the conflic start when Sara obligate Abraham to send Ismael and Agar to the desert.

Then Issac have 2 twins sons the first one to born was Esau and the second one was Jacob...
Jacob steel the primogeniture lying to his father when Issac was old, blind and dying.

Later Jacob fight with ana anunnakie and force him to bless him.. the anunnakie ask what was his name and then change it to Israel that means the one who fight with god and did not perish...

Jews descent from him...
The 2 primogenitures are with the Arabs because Esau went to his uncle Ismael and married one of his clans women.


Sorry, but that's bsflag
 Quoting: Bob Saget

what part is BS? why don't you read the Torah or the Bible?? all what I wrote is in there... did your read it? it is a very interesting history to read

Issac was blind and sick and his son Jacob with the help of his mother conspire to steel the primogeniture... using esaub clotes even gluing animal fur to jacobs arms to look like his hairy brother.
what part is bull shit?
  Enki was the real engineer of the human race. He was the Sumerian god of science, engineering, magic, strategy, music, and lovemaking
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 276680
New Zealand
01/05/2009 03:49 AM
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Re: Why the Jews and Muslims fight...
Muslims appear to fight with everone

their religion is based in conflict

90%-95% OF ALL THE CONFLICTS ON THIS PLANET TODAY
INVOLVE MUSLIMS FIGHTING NON-MUSLIMS OR EACH OTHER!
There are many trouble spots around the world, but as a general rule, it's easy to make an educated guess at one of the participants: Muslims vs. Jews in "Palestine," Muslims vs. Hindus in Kashmir, Muslims vs. Christians in Africa, Muslims vs. Buddhists in Thailand, Muslims vs. Russians in the Caucasus, etc...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 512151


Yes, but it is only Israel that must be totally destroyed, driven into the sea. The only reason groups like Hamas and Hezbollah exist is to destroy Israel and reclaim Al Quds.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 276680
New Zealand
01/05/2009 03:54 AM
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Re: Why the Jews and Muslims fight...
One day, eventually, a rogue Israeli pilot is going to veer off and put a hellfire missile into that Dome. Then watch what happens.
RHSC
User ID: 570208
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01/05/2009 03:56 AM
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Re: Why the Jews and Muslims fight...
what part is BS? why don't you read the Torah or the Bible?? all what I wrote is in there... did your read it? it is a very interesting history to read

Issac was blind and sick and his son Jacob with the help of his mother conspire to steel the primogeniture... using esaub clotes even gluing animal fur to jacobs arms to look like his hairy brother.
what part is bull shit?
 Quoting: fërú.



BOB SAGET:
I think our friend, FERU, has you pushed up against the wall. He pegged it. I'm really interested to see what your response will be.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 276680
New Zealand
01/05/2009 03:56 AM
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Re: Why the Jews and Muslims fight...
good link:
[link to www.templemount.org]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 525589
United States
01/05/2009 03:57 AM
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Re: Why the Jews and Muslims fight...
Israel has one tiny little sliver of land surrounded by huge Arab nations. And this doesn't even include the Holy site where the Dome of the Rock is, which was built on top of the Jewish Temple the Palestinians destroyed.

The British gave them this land. They didn't take it. However, they were forced to defend it from the very beginning....this little bitty sliver....but that's not good enough. Muslims believe they have no right to exist - their lives are nothing, on any land.

People get manipulated by the fury of the Muslim hatred that daily wages the biggest smear campaign ever seen. Don't fall for it. Especially if you are a Christian - the Bible says very clearly in Genesis that it was Isaac that was the promised son and therefore the land was given by God to his descendants - the Jewish people. THAT is what they're fighting over and have been for almost 3000 years. The Jewish people follow the Old T. and the Muslims follow the Koran. The biggest difference to me, besides that I believe the Bible, which was written first btw, is that Jews don't say Muslims don't have a right to exist. The Jewish people defend their right to exist. The Jewish people are the ones on the defense, constantly.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 570208
United States
01/05/2009 03:58 AM
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Re: Why the Jews and Muslims fight...
Israel has one tiny little sliver of land surrounded by huge Arab nations. And this doesn't even include the Holy site where the Dome of the Rock is, which was built on top of the Jewish Temple the Palestinians destroyed.

The British gave them this land. They didn't take it. However, they were forced to defend it from the very beginning....this little bitty sliver....but that's not good enough. Muslims believe they have no right to exist - their lives are nothing, on any land.

People get manipulated by the fury of the Muslim hatred that daily wages the biggest smear campaign ever seen. Don't fall for it. Especially if you are a Christian - the Bible says very clearly in Genesis that it was Isaac that was the promised son and therefore the land was given by God to his descendants - the Jewish people. THAT is what they're fighting over and have been for almost 3000 years. The Jewish people follow the Old T. and the Muslims follow the Koran. The biggest difference to me, besides that I believe the Bible, which was written first btw, is that Jews don't say Muslims don't have a right to exist. The Jewish people defend their right to exist. The Jewish people are the ones on the defense, constantly.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 525589


It wasn't the Brits to give.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 573680
United States
01/05/2009 03:59 AM
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Re: Why the Jews and Muslims fight...
:eotz2:
Bob Saget
Yeah...yeah and thrice yeah

User ID: 578679
United Kingdom
01/05/2009 04:01 AM

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Re: Why the Jews and Muslims fight...
what part is BS? why don't you read the Torah or the Bible?? all what I wrote is in there... did your read it? it is a very interesting history to read

Issac was blind and sick and his son Jacob with the help of his mother conspire to steel the primogeniture... using esaub clotes even gluing animal fur to jacobs arms to look like his hairy brother.
what part is bull shit?



BOB SAGET:
I think our friend, FERU, has you pushed up against the wall. He pegged it. I'm really interested to see what your response will be.
 Quoting: RHSC 570208


Not at all.

I simply don't have time to give you or him a bible lesson, if you can't read it for yourself.

If you read the bible, you will see that it was meant to be that way...Jacob was the son on whom the blessing was bestowed. It is shown both before and after the event, all through the bible, since then.

But, like I said, I will not read it for you.
The chariots of God are tens of thousands, and thousands of thousands.
fërú.

User ID: 586262
Mexico
01/05/2009 04:03 AM
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Re: Why the Jews and Muslims fight...
One day, eventually, a rogue Israeli pilot is going to veer off and put a hellfire missile into that Dome. Then watch what happens.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 276680

I was inside that mosque last October 27... I went in to the cave inside the mosque one of the only 2 site where you can be close to the Holies of the Holies which is a huge rock with some long holes on it (like if some heavy machinery was attached to it in a long past)

My first feeling when I enter the Muslim headquarters was that soon the beautiful mosque will be destroy it.

There is another entrance close to the Holy of the Holies, and only 12 people have the key to it 11 of those are Jews from an ancient group... one of them use to be know as the guru of central park.
  Enki was the real engineer of the human race. He was the Sumerian god of science, engineering, magic, strategy, music, and lovemaking
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 573318
United States
01/05/2009 04:06 AM
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Re: Why the Jews and Muslims fight...
Israel has one tiny little sliver of land surrounded by huge Arab nations. And this doesn't even include the Holy site where the Dome of the Rock is, which was built on top of the Jewish Temple the Palestinians destroyed.

The British gave them this land.


It wasn't the Brits to give.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 570208



God must have spoken to the Brit's and told them to help him out!!!

like God really needed their help to determine when and where his Promised Land was!!!
fërú.

User ID: 586262
Mexico
01/05/2009 04:07 AM
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Re: Why the Jews and Muslims fight...
what part is BS? why don't you read the Torah or the Bible?? all what I wrote is in there... did your read it? it is a very interesting history to read

Issac was blind and sick and his son Jacob with the help of his mother conspire to steel the primogeniture... using esaub clotes even gluing animal fur to jacobs arms to look like his hairy brother.
what part is bull shit?



BOB SAGET:
I think our friend, FERU, has you pushed up against the wall. He pegged it. I'm really interested to see what your response will be.


Not at all.

I simply don't have time to give you or him a bible lesson, if you can't read it for yourself.

If you read the bible, you will see that it was meant to be that way...Jacob was the son on whom the blessing was bestowed. It is shown both before and after the event, all through the bible, since then.

But, like I said, I will not read it for you.
 Quoting: Bob Saget

He lie to his father for god sake... his father was dying...
he lie to him 3 times.

then when his brother discover the lie jacob flee cowardly to his mothers family where he was scam to married the wrong sister... etc... after 17 years I think, and with a huge family he wanted to return to his fathers land and hear his brother Esau still looking for him and Jacob cowardly (the Torah says) send all his family in front to try to convince his brother to not to kill him because he has a big family and was needed. It was in that moment he found the anunakie he force in to a fight...
that is the father of the Jews...
  Enki was the real engineer of the human race. He was the Sumerian god of science, engineering, magic, strategy, music, and lovemaking
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 525589
United States
01/05/2009 04:09 AM
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Re: Why the Jews and Muslims fight...
Jews lie since the beginning

God says to sacrifice his primogenitor and only son

that was Ismael who was a only son of Abraham for 14 years then his half brother Issac born and the conflic start when Sara obligate Abraham to send Ismael and Agar to the desert.

Then Issac have 2 twins sons the first one to born was Esau and the second one was Jacob...
Jacob steel the primogeniture lying to his father when Issac was old, blind and dying.

Later Jacob fight with ana anunnakie and force him to bless him.. the anunnakie ask what was his name and then change it to Israel that means the one who fight with god and did not perish...

Jews descent from him...
The 2 primogenitures are with the Arabs because Esau went to his uncle Ismael and married one of his clans women.
 Quoting: fërú.

Right.

And then there's what the Bible says.

In Genesis 16:13-16 (years before Abraham's second son Isaac was born) the Angel of the Lord told Abraham's servant Hagar that her son Ishmael would be "...a wild donkey of a man, His hand will be against everyone, and everyone's hand will be against him; and he will live to the east of all his brothers."

Genesis 17: 18 And Abraham said to God, "Oh that Ishmael might live before You!" 19 But God said, "No, but Sarah your wife will bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; and I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. 20 As for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold, I will bless him, and will make him fruitful and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall become the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation. 21 But My covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you at this season next year."

Galatians 4 tells us that Ishmael had been "born according to the flesh" while Isaac had been "born according to the promise". Isaac replaced Ishmael as the favored son and heir. This, of course, made Ishmael jealous and bitter. As a result, he mocked and disdained his half-brother. Eventually the situation became so intolerable that Abraham's wife Sarah demanded that Ishmael and his Egyptian concubine mother, Hagar, be expelled permanently from Abraham's family.

God promised Hagar that her son would beget twelve princes who would become a great nation. Ishmael then went to live in the wilderness region of Hejaz in what became known as the Arabian Peninsula. He indeed had twelve patriarchal sons who became associated with the peoples known as Midianites, Edomites, Egyptians and Assyrians. The Bible and Islamic tradition both agree that Ishmael became the leader of all the great desert peoples of the Middle East.

God provided many opportunities in this story for redemption of bad situations created mostly out of disobedience and lack of faith. Abraham had agreed to impregnate Hagar at the request of his wife Sarah, even though God had told Abraham and Sarah that they would one day have their own son. To be fair to Ishmael, God provided him a great kingdom of his own "to the east" of his brother, but it was never enough. Ishmael's descendants have always been jealous that Isaac's descendants were able to claim the full inheritance of Abraham.

This jealousy and resentment created an unparalleled hate which has set off wars and atrocities for four thousand years. It was the title deed to the land of Israel, which God promised to Abraham's lineage, that has been the source of the friction between the Jews and the Arabs right up to the present day.

Muslims believe the Jews changed and distorted the Bible in order to establish themselves as the heirs of Abraham's Covenant blessings. However, they fail to explain how the New Testament clearly teaches that the Covenant was made with Isaac and his descendants.

According to Islamic tradition, Abraham had eight sons rather than two who were reared in Mecca, not Hebron. They insist it was Ishmael, not Isaac, whom Abraham was about to sacrifice on Mount Moriah when an angel stopped him. According to the Koran, the Abrahamic covenant, with its promises - including the title deed to the land of Israel - was passed down to the Arabs through Ishmael, rather than to the Jews through Isaac.

If one believes that the Old and New Testaments were written under the inspiration of the Spirit of God, then there is no question that Israel is the Promised Land of the Jews. God's words to Abraham in Genesis are some 2,500 years older than the creation of Islam (whose "prophet" Mohammed was a murdering, thieving pedophile who "married" a seven year old child - but that's another story).

The bottom line is, God fulfilled His promise to Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael. And He is about to use the consequential warfare between the two brothers in order to bring about His "end time" scenario.

Muhammad, a descendant of Ishmael, has brought over one billion people on to his side of this ancient conflict through the religion of Islam. From the time he started the Muslim religion, the dimensions of the conflict began to enlarge. When his followers laid claim to Jerusalem as the their third holiest site, the die was cast for Jerusalem to become the trigger of the war of Armageddon, just as the prophet Zechariah predicted 2500 years ago. Zechariah prophesied "Jerusalem would become a burdensome stone for all the peoples" and that "All nations of the earth will be gathered [for war] because of it." (Zechariah 12:3)

We are eyewitnesses to this taking place right now.

The other major spheres of power that will be drawn into this final war are clearly predicted.

Ezekiel predicts that a nation to the extreme north of reborn Israel will become Israel's arch enemy. It will be a nation with a vast arsenal with which it will arm all of the Muslim nations. Russia is the only nation to the extreme north of Israel. And they are descended from the tribe of Magog through the Scythians, just as Ezekiel predicted. God Himself commands this power from the extreme north to take command of the confederated Muslim forces and lead them in an all out attack against Israel. This attack is the first battle of the war of Armageddon.

The Book of Revelation predicts another sphere of power that will enter this war with 200 million soldiers. This power bloc is called "the Kings of the East". They will move into the Middle East and attack once the war has started. The Bible says they will wipe out a third of the world's population.

The fourth power bloc is the Western force led by a revived form of the Roman Empire. Daniel and the Apostle John both predict this power in great detail. It will begin when a great leader springs up in Rome and takes the strongest 10 Nations of the EU and uses them to form his power base.

[link to therefinersfire.org]
422730
User ID: 562416
Australia
01/05/2009 04:13 AM
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Re: Why the Jews and Muslims fight...
Israel has one tiny little sliver of land surrounded by huge Arab nations. And this doesn't even include the Holy site where the Dome of the Rock is, which was built on top of the Jewish Temple the Palestinians destroyed.

The British gave them this land.


It wasn't the Brits to give.


God must have spoken to the Brit's and told them to help him out!!!

like God really needed their help to determine when and where his Promised Land was!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 573318


bsmeter2

And anyone can justify what they do by claiming that God is on their side, and this I think is the problem here.
Anonymous Coward
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01/05/2009 04:13 AM
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Re: Why the Jews and Muslims fight...
Jews lie since the beginning

God says to sacrifice his primogenitor and only son

that was Ismael who was a only son of Abraham for 14 years then his half brother Issac born and the conflic start when Sara obligate Abraham to send Ismael and Agar to the desert.

Then Issac have 2 twins sons the first one to born was Esau and the second one was Jacob...
Jacob steel the primogeniture lying to his father when Issac was old, blind and dying.

Later Jacob fight with ana anunnakie and force him to bless him.. the anunnakie ask what was his name and then change it to Israel that means the one who fight with god and did not perish...

Jews descent from him...
The 2 primogenitures are with the Arabs because Esau went to his uncle Ismael and married one of his clans women.


Sorry, but that's bsflag

what part is BS? why don't you read the Torah or the Bible?? all what I wrote is in there... did your read it? it is a very interesting history to read

Issac was blind and sick and his son Jacob with the help of his mother conspire to steel the primogeniture... using esaub clotes even gluing animal fur to jacobs arms to look like his hairy brother.
what part is bull shit?
 Quoting: fërú.


That's a different story than the one he was responding to.

And that was over a first born birth rite of Isaac's twin sons, not Isaac and Ishmael's.
Bob Saget
Yeah...yeah and thrice yeah

User ID: 578679
United Kingdom
01/05/2009 04:13 AM

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Re: Why the Jews and Muslims fight...
what part is BS? why don't you read the Torah or the Bible?? all what I wrote is in there... did your read it? it is a very interesting history to read

Issac was blind and sick and his son Jacob with the help of his mother conspire to steel the primogeniture... using esaub clotes even gluing animal fur to jacobs arms to look like his hairy brother.
what part is bull shit?



BOB SAGET:
I think our friend, FERU, has you pushed up against the wall. He pegged it. I'm really interested to see what your response will be.


Not at all.

I simply don't have time to give you or him a bible lesson, if you can't read it for yourself.

If you read the bible, you will see that it was meant to be that way...Jacob was the son on whom the blessing was bestowed. It is shown both before and after the event, all through the bible, since then.

But, like I said, I will not read it for you.

He lie to his father for god sake... his father was dying...
he lie to him 3 times.

then when his brother discover the lie jacob flee cowardly to his mothers family where he was scam to married the wrong sister... etc... afther 17 years I thing and with a huge family he wanted to return to his fathers land and hear his brother Esau still loking for him and Jacob cowardly (the Torah says) send all his family in front to try to convince his brother to not to kill him because he has a big family and was needed. It was in that moment he found the anunakie he force in to a fight...
that is the father of the Jews...
 Quoting: fërú.



"He lie to his father for god sake"

Haven't you read about Lot, who you also claim to believe in?
The chariots of God are tens of thousands, and thousands of thousands.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 525589
United States
01/05/2009 04:14 AM
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Re: Why the Jews and Muslims fight...
what part is BS? why don't you read the Torah or the Bible?? all what I wrote is in there... did your read it? it is a very interesting history to read

Issac was blind and sick and his son Jacob with the help of his mother conspire to steel the primogeniture... using esaub clotes even gluing animal fur to jacobs arms to look like his hairy brother.
what part is bull shit?



BOB SAGET:
I think our friend, FERU, has you pushed up against the wall. He pegged it. I'm really interested to see what your response will be.
 Quoting: RHSC 570208

What planet are you from? Not even close. Feru is spouting nonsense, mostly irrelevant.
Bob Saget
Yeah...yeah and thrice yeah

User ID: 578679
United Kingdom
01/05/2009 04:16 AM

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Re: Why the Jews and Muslims fight...
Jews lie since the beginning

God says to sacrifice his primogenitor and only son

that was Ismael who was a only son of Abraham for 14 years then his half brother Issac born and the conflic start when Sara obligate Abraham to send Ismael and Agar to the desert.

Then Issac have 2 twins sons the first one to born was Esau and the second one was Jacob...
Jacob steel the primogeniture lying to his father when Issac was old, blind and dying.

Later Jacob fight with ana anunnakie and force him to bless him.. the anunnakie ask what was his name and then change it to Israel that means the one who fight with god and did not perish...

Jews descent from him...
The 2 primogenitures are with the Arabs because Esau went to his uncle Ismael and married one of his clans women.

Right.

And then there's what the Bible says.

In Genesis 16:13-16 (years before Abraham's second son Isaac was born) the Angel of the Lord told Abraham's servant Hagar that her son Ishmael would be "...a wild donkey of a man, His hand will be against everyone, and everyone's hand will be against him; and he will live to the east of all his brothers."

Genesis 17: 18 And Abraham said to God, "Oh that Ishmael might live before You!" 19 But God said, "No, but Sarah your wife will bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; and I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. 20 As for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold, I will bless him, and will make him fruitful and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall become the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation. 21 But My covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you at this season next year."

Galatians 4 tells us that Ishmael had been "born according to the flesh" while Isaac had been "born according to the promise". Isaac replaced Ishmael as the favored son and heir. This, of course, made Ishmael jealous and bitter. As a result, he mocked and disdained his half-brother. Eventually the situation became so intolerable that Abraham's wife Sarah demanded that Ishmael and his Egyptian concubine mother, Hagar, be expelled permanently from Abraham's family.

God promised Hagar that her son would beget twelve princes who would become a great nation. Ishmael then went to live in the wilderness region of Hejaz in what became known as the Arabian Peninsula. He indeed had twelve patriarchal sons who became associated with the peoples known as Midianites, Edomites, Egyptians and Assyrians. The Bible and Islamic tradition both agree that Ishmael became the leader of all the great desert peoples of the Middle East.

God provided many opportunities in this story for redemption of bad situations created mostly out of disobedience and lack of faith. Abraham had agreed to impregnate Hagar at the request of his wife Sarah, even though God had told Abraham and Sarah that they would one day have their own son. To be fair to Ishmael, God provided him a great kingdom of his own "to the east" of his brother, but it was never enough. Ishmael's descendants have always been jealous that Isaac's descendants were able to claim the full inheritance of Abraham.

This jealousy and resentment created an unparalleled hate which has set off wars and atrocities for four thousand years. It was the title deed to the land of Israel, which God promised to Abraham's lineage, that has been the source of the friction between the Jews and the Arabs right up to the present day.

Muslims believe the Jews changed and distorted the Bible in order to establish themselves as the heirs of Abraham's Covenant blessings. However, they fail to explain how the New Testament clearly teaches that the Covenant was made with Isaac and his descendants.

According to Islamic tradition, Abraham had eight sons rather than two who were reared in Mecca, not Hebron. They insist it was Ishmael, not Isaac, whom Abraham was about to sacrifice on Mount Moriah when an angel stopped him. According to the Koran, the Abrahamic covenant, with its promises - including the title deed to the land of Israel - was passed down to the Arabs through Ishmael, rather than to the Jews through Isaac.

If one believes that the Old and New Testaments were written under the inspiration of the Spirit of God, then there is no question that Israel is the Promised Land of the Jews. God's words to Abraham in Genesis are some 2,500 years older than the creation of Islam (whose "prophet" Mohammed was a murdering, thieving pedophile who "married" a seven year old child - but that's another story).

The bottom line is, God fulfilled His promise to Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael. And He is about to use the consequential warfare between the two brothers in order to bring about His "end time" scenario.

Muhammad, a descendant of Ishmael, has brought over one billion people on to his side of this ancient conflict through the religion of Islam. From the time he started the Muslim religion, the dimensions of the conflict began to enlarge. When his followers laid claim to Jerusalem as the their third holiest site, the die was cast for Jerusalem to become the trigger of the war of Armageddon, just as the prophet Zechariah predicted 2500 years ago. Zechariah prophesied "Jerusalem would become a burdensome stone for all the peoples" and that "All nations of the earth will be gathered [for war] because of it." (Zechariah 12:3)

We are eyewitnesses to this taking place right now.

The other major spheres of power that will be drawn into this final war are clearly predicted.

Ezekiel predicts that a nation to the extreme north of reborn Israel will become Israel's arch enemy. It will be a nation with a vast arsenal with which it will arm all of the Muslim nations. Russia is the only nation to the extreme north of Israel. And they are descended from the tribe of Magog through the Scythians, just as Ezekiel predicted. God Himself commands this power from the extreme north to take command of the confederated Muslim forces and lead them in an all out attack against Israel. This attack is the first battle of the war of Armageddon.

The Book of Revelation predicts another sphere of power that will enter this war with 200 million soldiers. This power bloc is called "the Kings of the East". They will move into the Middle East and attack once the war has started. The Bible says they will wipe out a third of the world's population.

The fourth power bloc is the Western force led by a revived form of the Roman Empire. Daniel and the Apostle John both predict this power in great detail. It will begin when a great leader springs up in Rome and takes the strongest 10 Nations of the EU and uses them to form his power base.

[link to therefinersfire.org]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 525589



Correct. Enough said.
The chariots of God are tens of thousands, and thousands of thousands.
fërú.

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01/05/2009 04:17 AM
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Re: Why the Jews and Muslims fight...
what part is BS? why don't you read the Torah or the Bible?? all what I wrote is in there... did your read it? it is a very interesting history to read

Issac was blind and sick and his son Jacob with the help of his mother conspire to steel the primogeniture... using esaub clotes even gluing animal fur to jacobs arms to look like his hairy brother.
what part is bull shit?



BOB SAGET:
I think our friend, FERU, has you pushed up against the wall. He pegged it. I'm really interested to see what your response will be.


Not at all.

I simply don't have time to give you or him a bible lesson, if you can't read it for yourself.

If you read the bible, you will see that it was meant to be that way...Jacob was the son on whom the blessing was bestowed. It is shown both before and after the event, all through the bible, since then.

But, like I said, I will not read it for you.

He lie to his father for god sake... his father was dying...
he lie to him 3 times.

then when his brother discover the lie jacob flee cowardly to his mothers family where he was scam to married the wrong sister... etc... afther 17 years I thing and with a huge family he wanted to return to his fathers land and hear his brother Esau still loking for him and Jacob cowardly (the Torah says) send all his family in front to try to convince his brother to not to kill him because he has a big family and was needed. It was in that moment he found the anunakie he force in to a fight...
that is the father of the Jews...



"He lie to his father for god sake"

Haven't you read about Lot, who you also claim to believe in?
 Quoting: Bob Saget

He lie to his father for his own sake...

his father Issac the one who born because God wanted by miracle intervention (Sarah was very old also and the news make her laugh Issac means laugh) So he lie to one of the favorites of god... why do he lie to his father for god sake??? what type of god is that???
  Enki was the real engineer of the human race. He was the Sumerian god of science, engineering, magic, strategy, music, and lovemaking
Anonymous Coward
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01/05/2009 04:18 AM
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Re: Why the Jews and Muslims fight...
Israel has one tiny little sliver of land surrounded by huge Arab nations. And this doesn't even include the Holy site where the Dome of the Rock is, which was built on top of the Jewish Temple the Palestinians destroyed.

The British gave them this land. They didn't take it. However, they were forced to defend it from the very beginning....this little bitty sliver....but that's not good enough. Muslims believe they have no right to exist - their lives are nothing, on any land.

People get manipulated by the fury of the Muslim hatred that daily wages the biggest smear campaign ever seen. Don't fall for it. Especially if you are a Christian - the Bible says very clearly in Genesis that it was Isaac that was the promised son and therefore the land was given by God to his descendants - the Jewish people. THAT is what they're fighting over and have been for almost 3000 years. The Jewish people follow the Old T. and the Muslims follow the Koran. The biggest difference to me, besides that I believe the Bible, which was written first btw, is that Jews don't say Muslims don't have a right to exist. The Jewish people defend their right to exist. The Jewish people are the ones on the defense, constantly.


It wasn't the Brits to give.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 570208

The League of Nations approved the British Mandate of Palestine with the intent of creating a "national home for the Jewish people." In 1947, the United Nations approved the partition of Palestine into two states, one Jewish and one Arab.
Anonymous Coward
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01/05/2009 04:21 AM
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Re: Why the Jews and Muslims fight...
what part is BS? why don't you read the Torah or the Bible?? all what I wrote is in there... did your read it? it is a very interesting history to read

Issac was blind and sick and his son Jacob with the help of his mother conspire to steel the primogeniture... using esaub clotes even gluing animal fur to jacobs arms to look like his hairy brother.
what part is bull shit?



BOB SAGET:
I think our friend, FERU, has you pushed up against the wall. He pegged it. I'm really interested to see what your response will be.


Not at all.

I simply don't have time to give you or him a bible lesson, if you can't read it for yourself.

If you read the bible, you will see that it was meant to be that way...Jacob was the son on whom the blessing was bestowed. It is shown both before and after the event, all through the bible, since then.

But, like I said, I will not read it for you.

He lie to his father for god sake... his father was dying...
he lie to him 3 times.

then when his brother discover the lie jacob flee cowardly to his mothers family where he was scam to married the wrong sister... etc... afther 17 years I thing and with a huge family he wanted to return to his fathers land and hear his brother Esau still loking for him and Jacob cowardly (the Torah says) send all his family in front to try to convince his brother to not to kill him because he has a big family and was needed. It was in that moment he found the anunakie he force in to a fight...
that is the father of the Jews...



"He lie to his father for god sake"

Haven't you read about Lot, who you also claim to believe in?
 Quoting: Bob Saget

Deflections. Stay on topic.

The father was lied to, but that father, Isaac, was Abraham's chosen son, which is the point of contention.
Bob Saget
Yeah...yeah and thrice yeah

User ID: 578679
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01/05/2009 04:22 AM

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Re: Why the Jews and Muslims fight...
He lie to his father for his own sake...

his father Issac the one who born because God wanted by miracle intervention (Sarah was very old also and the news make her laugh Issac means laugh) So he lie to one of the favorites of god... why do he lie to his father for god sake??? what type of god is that???
 Quoting: fërú.



You can't blame God for these things. These were failings and deceit of men. But God had it all in His plan.

And He had to be faithful to His promise.


Or didn't you read the bible?
The chariots of God are tens of thousands, and thousands of thousands.
Bob Saget
Yeah...yeah and thrice yeah

User ID: 578679
United Kingdom
01/05/2009 04:25 AM

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Re: Why the Jews and Muslims fight...
Deflections. Stay on topic.

The father was lied to, but that father, Isaac, was Abraham's chosen son, which is the point of contention.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 525589



I was merely giving an example of man's duplicity in another part of the bible for comparison, since he raised this 'act' of man to try and discredit what followed.


I know what the contention is. And I know who God chose as the heir to the promise.
The chariots of God are tens of thousands, and thousands of thousands.

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