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THE MOST PERFECT CRIME EVER COMMITTED:The Sinking Of The Titanic 1912, Created To Be A Tomb For The Wealthy Opposing The Federal Reserve Act 1913

 
rachel
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Re: THE MOST PERFECT CRIME EVER COMMITTED:The Sinking Of The Titanic 1912, Created To Be A Tomb For The Wealthy Opposing The Federal Reserve Act 1913
Wow, I thought everyone knew this already.

If they would assassinate four sitting US presidents, blow up the WTC, what makes you think they wouldn't do this in a heartbeat?
 Quoting: DrKnow 749452

this is old news yws but definatety worth the attention. i belive most on this site know this. facinateting. i read the jesuits infultrate every aspect and level of society. there oath is insane!
The Monk
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Re: THE MOST PERFECT CRIME EVER COMMITTED:The Sinking Of The Titanic 1912, Created To Be A Tomb For The Wealthy Opposing The Federal Reserve Act 1913
Wouldn't it have been cheaper and easier to arrange "accidents" for the men they wanted killed? Geesh there were only a few of them, seems to me it would have been a whole lot easier to mess with some car brakes, push one into a train and walk away, you know, forensics back then isn't what it is today...so much easier than building a multi-million dollar ship and killing HOW many innocent people? There are too many Col. Flaggs on this board.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 475356


You would be surprised what kind of silly, outrageous schemes people can cook up when it comes to offing someone. It's the fear of suspicion arising, of being caught and fear of revenge being taken that drives the creativity of death plot scenarios.
tax day
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Re: THE MOST PERFECT CRIME EVER COMMITTED:The Sinking Of The Titanic 1912, Created To Be A Tomb For The Wealthy Opposing The Federal Reserve Act 1913
Titanic

Ocean liner that sank on maiden voyage at 2:20 AM on April 15, 1912. (from occultopedia)


In celebration, they paid homage to the illegal collection agency known as the IRS, by making the deadline for your due taxes the same day as the Titanic went down.

April 15.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: THE MOST PERFECT CRIME EVER COMMITTED:The Sinking Of The Titanic 1912, Created To Be A Tomb For The Wealthy Opposing The Federal Reserve Act 1913
The day after the Carpathia landed, a committee of the United states Senate held hearings, conducted by Senator William Alden Smith, chief examiner. They ran from Friday April 19, to Saturday May 35, 1912. The first witness at the inquiry was J. Bruce Ismay. Many people thought that he should have gone down with the ship. But Ismay insisted that he only stepped into Collapsible C because ther were no more women in sight. He was the one who was accused of making Captain E J Smith to make the Titanic go at a faster rate of speed. The committee did not fault Ismay for his actions.

The inquiry concluded that the Californian was less than 19 miles away from Titanic and could have come to the rescue. 82 witnesses were questioned in all. Senator Smith recommended that the Captain of the Carpathia be give a $1,000 gold medal on the behalf of the American people.

There was also an inquiry in Britain. The British Board of Trade began investigation on May 2 through July 3, presided by Lord Mersey, Sir John Charles Bigham. 97 witnesses were questioned. Second Officer Charles Lightoller defended the actions of the Captain, and wireless operator Harold Bride recounted the frantic efforts of Jack Phillips to call other ships for help. Lightoller was asked over 1,600 questions.

The White Star Line was not blamed for the incident because The Board of Trade feared that this action would hurt the line's profits, damage the reputation of British shipping, and cause thousands of customers to switch to German or French liners.
 Quoting: Jammer



Saturday May 35, 1912 Boy things were different back then! May had 35 days!
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Re: THE MOST PERFECT CRIME EVER COMMITTED:The Sinking Of The Titanic 1912, Created To Be A Tomb For The Wealthy Opposing The Federal Reserve Act 1913
 Quoting: G. House




HAHAHAHA!

Edit much?


------
"And I understood that in an age where there was so much ego, because of the camera, that it was very important to look for that kind of player, ... I began to look for the kind of player that doesn't need his ego fed by stardom, but will do what he's supposed to do because he knows the game and loves the game, and will do the job the right way even if someone else gets the glory." ~ Bill Belichick

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ShadowSpaz

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Re: THE MOST PERFECT CRIME EVER COMMITTED:The Sinking Of The Titanic 1912, Created To Be A Tomb For The Wealthy Opposing The Federal Reserve Act 1913
Amazing! I honestly had never heard this before. But totally makes sense with all the facts that are provided. And the comparisons made to the book "Titan" and dates that are referenced.

Wow!
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Re: THE MOST PERFECT CRIME EVER COMMITTED:The Sinking Of The Titanic 1912, Created To Be A Tomb For The Wealthy Opposing The Federal Reserve Act 1913
Saturday May 35, 1912 Boy things were different back then! May had 35 days!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 673477


You could have known that it was a typo!!

Not May 35 but May 25

The chairman of the inquiry, Senator William Alden Smith, wanted to gather accounts from passengers and crew while the events were still fresh in their minds. Smith also needed to subpoena the British citizens while they were still on American soil. This prevented all surviving passengers and crew from returning to the UK before the American inquiry, which lasted until 25 May, was completed.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Last Edited by tommy777 on 10/02/2009 07:30 PM
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Re: THE MOST PERFECT CRIME EVER COMMITTED:The Sinking Of The Titanic 1912, Created To Be A Tomb For The Wealthy Opposing The Federal Reserve Act 1913
Amazing! I honestly had never heard this before. But totally makes sense with all the facts that are provided. And the comparisons made to the book "Titan" and dates that are referenced.

Wow!
 Quoting: ShadowSpaz



FOURTEEN YEARS BEFORE THE TITANIC was completed, Morgan Robertson wrote a novel about a ship named the Titan, Note the following book quote: "...which was the largest craft afloat and the greatest of the works of men'. No expense was spared on making the ship luxurious and the steward's cabin is described as being equal to that of a first class hotel." The latest technology was used in the building of the Titan including the addition of "..nineteen water-tight compartments.. With nine compartments flooded the ship would still float, and as no known incident of the sea could possibly fill this many, the steamship Titan was considered practically unsinkable."

Because Titan was considered unsinkable she only carried the minimum number of lifeboats required by law - 24 - able to carry 500 people. This was not enough for the 2000 passengers on board.

Titan Titanic
Nationality British British
Length 800 feet 882.5 feet
Metal Steel Steel
Weight 45,000 66,000
Horse Power 40,000 46,000
Propellers 3 3
Masts 2 2
Waterlocks 19 16
Lifeboats 24 20
Capacity 3000 people 3000 people
On board 3000 people 2228 people
Impact Speed 25 knots 22.5 knots
Impact Time near midnight 11.40pm
Impact Point Starboard Starboard
Month April April



Publisher's opinion:
Even stranger is another story included in this ebook: Beyond the Spectrum

This story describes a futuristic war fought with aircraft that carried what he called "sun bombs". These bombs were so powerful that with one brilliant flash of blinding light, one single bomb could destroy an entire city (much like a nuclear bomb ).

N. B.: When this story was written, airplanes were still tiny, dangerous machines that could barely carry one man and was decades before the Germans started their "heavy water" experiments, trying to construct a nuclear device.

In addition, this future war begins in the month of December when the Japanese stage a sneak attack on Hawaii. (WW II began also, when the Japanese launched a sneak attack in December on an American base -Pearl Harbor, in Hawaii.)

It appears that the author was visionary of sorts.


[link to images.google.com]


------


So called prophecy from these folks is nothing more then a psychological attack on the populace.

As easy as following directions in a cookbook.

With the truth hidden out in the open.


------

Last Edited by halman on 10/02/2009 07:37 PM
"And I understood that in an age where there was so much ego, because of the camera, that it was very important to look for that kind of player, ... I began to look for the kind of player that doesn't need his ego fed by stardom, but will do what he's supposed to do because he knows the game and loves the game, and will do the job the right way even if someone else gets the glory." ~ Bill Belichick

H&W P401 Recip./Parson's Turbine Cold Start

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Re: THE MOST PERFECT CRIME EVER COMMITTED:The Sinking Of The Titanic 1912, Created To Be A Tomb For The Wealthy Opposing The Federal Reserve Act 1913
Just when I thought I'd heard it all, I get surprised again! If there's one thing people love, it's a good conspiracy theory. Unfortunately, this one isn't good at all. If the Titanic was originally intended to be a death ship (this cracked me up!) why did the builders bother giving her watertight compartments? The builders, Harland & Wolff, never claimed her to be unsinkable. Neither did the White Star Line--Shipbuilder Magazine stated that this new class of liners (Olympic and Titanic) were "designed to be practically unsinkable"--and the media picked up on it. The Titanic didn't carry too few lifeboats on purpose; in fact, she and her sister ship Olympic actually carried MORE lifeboats than the British Board of Trade required.

Another glaring inaccuracy is the claim that distress rockets were red. Distress rockets at this time were white. And Titanic fired 8 white rockets that night. The laws governing rockets at sea were in a state of flux at this time and some company signals were also white, which may have contributed to the Californian's inaction.

Captain Smith, far from trying to wreck the ship, took the southernmost route to New York because he knew that a mild winter that year had created more than the usual number of icebergs and figured that route should help avoid most of them.

This conspiracy theory develops another gaping hole when we consider the fact that Benjamin Guggenheim wasn't really that powerful a man at all--he wasn't a very competent businessman--Guggenheim squandered much of his inherited fortune before he died on the Titanic in a series of poor investments.

Isidor Straus was actually offered a seat in a lifeboat by one of Titanic's officers, but refused to go before the other men, and was lost with his wife. Why would one of the intended targets, the reason the $10,000,000 ship was built, be offered a means of escape by an officer "working for the Jesuits"? The offer of a seat in the lifeboat for Straus was witnessed by a number of survivors and is irrefutable. Why not spend that 10 million on a public campaign supporting the Federal Reserve Bill instead?

John Jacob Astor had divorced his wife and married an 18-year-old girl, which was absolutely scandalous in 1912. Astor was thus shunned by pretty much all of the wealthy socialite class, which would have greatly diminished his influence with Congress in stopping the Federal Reserve Act.

Which brings us to another hole in this piece of Swiss cheese: The Federal Reserve Act as it was proposed before the Titanic's sinking. The proposed Act, known as the Aldrich Bill, specified a Federal Reserve completely managed by the private banking profession in America. This would actually have been more favorable to people like Astor, Guggenheim, and Straus. The opponents of this plan were actually the poor and sparsely-settled rural and western states, who feared that this would give control to the wealthy private citizens rather than to the government. These opponents felt this would cause more of the same financial panics that had precipitated the Reserve Act bill in the first place.

After the Democrats won control of the White House and both houses of Congress in the 1912 elections, they replaced the Aldrich proposal in 1913 with the one that ended up being passed--which put the U.S. Treasury at the helm of American banking. This is the version that the wealthy who died on the Titanic would likely have opposed, but they died before this version was even drafted. If all opposition to the Federal Reserve Act died on the Titanic, how do we account for the 60 Congressmen who voted against it in 1913? More importantly, why the hell would the Morgans, Rothschilds, and Rockefellers support the creation of the Federal Reserve in the first place? It would harm them just as much as it would harm the Astors, Guggenheims, and Strauses. No wealthy financier wanted to see the government take control of anything, especially money.
And why would bankers give politicians money so they could take control of the banking establishment from them? bsflag
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Re: THE MOST PERFECT CRIME EVER COMMITTED:The Sinking Of The Titanic 1912, Created To Be A Tomb For The Wealthy Opposing The Federal Reserve Act 1913
Another thing that makes nonsense out of this whole conspiracy theory is the fact that the Titanic was only insured for about half of her value. Plus, much of her insurance was underwritten by the White Star Line's own in-house insurance company. Why would a financial genius like J.P. Morgan deliberately sink his newest ship and cost one of his own companies a fortune? When the Titanic sank, it amounted to $10,000,000 1912 dollars down the drain, not including what the White Star Line had to pay in damages to the victims' families and for loss of property.
White Star and JP Morgan's IMM never recovered financially from the loss of Titanic. The sinking also generated a LOT of negative PR for these two companies and eventually IMM folded and White Star was bought out by Cunard.
If the Jesuits and the "illuminati" were really as smart and powerful as the poster would have us believe, why didn't they just save the money and hire assassins to eliminate their three millionaire targets? I can't think of any reason why a brilliant financier like Morgan would spend more than ten million dollars and three years to eliminate these people, wrecking one of his companies in the process, when he could do it for ten thousand dollars in about three weeks.
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Re: THE MOST PERFECT CRIME EVER COMMITTED:The Sinking Of The Titanic 1912, Created To Be A Tomb For The Wealthy Opposing The Federal Reserve Act 1913
If the Titanic was originally intended to be a death ship (this cracked me up!) why did the builders bother giving her watertight compartments?
 Quoting: Steve 786621


What, as opposed to pre-drilled holes and snake pits on board - Swinging pendulums and all? Look, if it was going to have the lore of the most pristene vessel ever assembled, it had to incorporate the best technology of the day.


So if they could spend that kind of money on cutting edge technology and luxury, why rely on sub industry standard rivets, and installed in just the right places?

The builders, Harland & Wolff, never claimed her to be unsinkable. Neither did the White Star Line
 Quoting: Steve 786621


The evidence suggests otherwise.

ttncprf

An extract from a White Star Line publicity brochure produced in 1910 for the twin ships Olympic and Titanic which states, these two wonderful vessels are designed to be unsinkable.





--Shipbuilder Magazine stated that this new class of liners (Olympic and Titanic) were "designed to be practically unsinkable"--and the media picked up on it.
 Quoting: Steve 786621


This occured the following year in 1911. After the White Star brochure was issued. Hey Steve, do you think old J.P. had any friends in the media back then? I know this was all slightly before the whole public relations concept took hold, but that's a different story...


The Titanic didn't carry too few lifeboats on purpose;
 Quoting: Steve 786621


Original designs called for 12 more life boats than what was actually used. They were cut out of the budget to save money and deck space - ON PURPOSE!


in fact, she and her sister ship Olympic actually carried MORE lifeboats than the British Board of Trade required.
 Quoting: Steve 786621


And far less then what was needed.

Another glaring inaccuracy is the claim that distress rockets were red. Distress rockets at this time were white. And Titanic fired 8 white rockets that night. The laws governing rockets at sea were in a state of flux at this time and some company signals were also white, which may have contributed to the Californian's inaction.

Captain Smith, far from trying to wreck the ship, took the southernmost route to New York because he knew that a mild winter that year had created more than the usual number of icebergs and figured that route should help avoid most of them.
 Quoting: Steve 786621


The watchmen onboard the Californian testified that when they went on duty, they not only observed the distress rockets, but could tell that the ship they were observing was listing! The Californians wireless operator was not awoken until a little after 5a.m. More then 2 hours after Titanic sank!

The reason given for the Californian being stopped is because it was SURROUNDED BY ICE!

And here comes old E.J. barreling in like a bull in a china shop - full steam white knuckle speed of 22 knots. Far too fast for the conditions as founded in the Titanic Inquiries.


And why would bankers give politicians money so they could take control of the banking establishment from them? bsflag
 Quoting: Steve 786621



So that nearly 100 years later the politicians would return the favor. The people who run the banks that make up the Federal Reserve own the United States of America. Instead of congress coining money interest free, private bankers loan money at interest. He who controls the money controls the laws. All thanks to the Federal Reseve Act.

Politicians are merely pawns who do what they are told by those that empower them. $$$$$$

Always have been, always will be.


------

Last Edited by halman on 10/06/2009 10:50 PM
"And I understood that in an age where there was so much ego, because of the camera, that it was very important to look for that kind of player, ... I began to look for the kind of player that doesn't need his ego fed by stardom, but will do what he's supposed to do because he knows the game and loves the game, and will do the job the right way even if someone else gets the glory." ~ Bill Belichick

H&W P401 Recip./Parson's Turbine Cold Start

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BOWMAN

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Re: THE MOST PERFECT CRIME EVER COMMITTED:The Sinking Of The Titanic 1912, Created To Be A Tomb For The Wealthy Opposing The Federal Reserve Act 1913
Another thing that makes nonsense out of this whole conspiracy theory is the fact that the Titanic was only insured for about half of her value. Plus, much of her insurance was underwritten by the White Star Line's own in-house insurance company. Why would a financial genius like J.P. Morgan deliberately sink his newest ship and cost one of his own companies a fortune? When the Titanic sank, it amounted to $10,000,000 1912 dollars down the drain, not including what the White Star Line had to pay in damages to the victims' families and for loss of property.
White Star and JP Morgan's IMM never recovered financially from the loss of Titanic. The sinking also generated a LOT of negative PR for these two companies and eventually IMM folded and White Star was bought out by Cunard.
 Quoting: Steve 786621



White Star lines went on for many years after the Titanic had sank. It was Lord Kyslant bookkeeping scandal which was the demise of White Star. The linking of the sinking to the selling of White Star to Cunard is a canard.

If the Jesuits and the "illuminati" were really as smart and powerful as the poster would have us believe, why didn't they just save the money and hire assassins to eliminate their three millionaire targets? I can't think of any reason why a brilliant financier like Morgan would spend more than ten million dollars and three years to eliminate these people, wrecking one of his companies in the process, when he could do it for ten thousand dollars in about three weeks.
 Quoting: Steve 786621



We're talkin' ritualistic sacrifice here. Not "extra value".
Money is of no object to these people. You're not seeing the full picture here, huh?


Don't hate the player, Steve, hate the game.


------

Last Edited by halman on 10/06/2009 10:51 PM
"And I understood that in an age where there was so much ego, because of the camera, that it was very important to look for that kind of player, ... I began to look for the kind of player that doesn't need his ego fed by stardom, but will do what he's supposed to do because he knows the game and loves the game, and will do the job the right way even if someone else gets the glory." ~ Bill Belichick

H&W P401 Recip./Parson's Turbine Cold Start

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Make Good Pitches

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Re: THE MOST PERFECT CRIME EVER COMMITTED:The Sinking Of The Titanic 1912, Created To Be A Tomb For The Wealthy Opposing The Federal Reserve Act 1913
bump bump bump bump
When thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
Isaiah 26:9

"Exposing Those Who Contradict"
[link to bible-truths.com]

"For as in Adam ALL die, so also in the Messiah will ALL be made alive."
[link to www.tentmaker.org]
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Re: THE MOST PERFECT CRIME EVER COMMITTED:The Sinking Of The Titanic 1912, Created To Be A Tomb For The Wealthy Opposing The Federal Reserve Act 1913
Good video. It seems a bit of overspending just to kill a few people.. have a list of the dead handy?
 Quoting: Aztec Cavalry 585352



Here's who mattered:

John Astor

Benjamin Guggenheim

They opposed the creation of the FED and had money/power to stop it.

Consequently, the evil MASONS put them on a boat and Captain Edward John Smith waited until night, in the middle of the ocean, and drove the boat into an iceburg at near flank speed to open up a fatal gash in the ship.

Once done, almost all men on the boat were doomed.

This occurred April 14, 1912.

To celebrate the occassion, the evil MASONS made TAX DAY, which is April 15... the "Day After." The IRS is the FED's pitbull.

FED bill passed on 3 votes of the Senate on Christmas eve...

These are evil bastards who will kill you to get their way.
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Re: THE MOST PERFECT CRIME EVER COMMITTED:The Sinking Of The Titanic 1912, Created To Be A Tomb For The Wealthy Opposing The Federal Reserve Act 1913

Good video. It seems a bit of overspending just to kill a few people.. have a list of the dead handy?



Here's who mattered:

John Astor

Benjamin Guggenheim
As I noted above, Ben Guggenheim did NOT have the money or power to stop it, and Astor no longer had the influence. Which is totally irrelevant anyway considering the FED bill at the time of the sinking favored the New York private banking establishment and the business-friendly Republicans (that means people like Morgan, Astor, Guggenheim, and Straus) anyway.
They opposed the creation of the FED and had money/power to stop it.

Consequently, the evil MASONS put them on a boat and Captain Edward John Smith waited until night, in the middle of the ocean, and drove the boat into an iceburg at near flank speed to open up a fatal gash in the ship.

Once done, almost all men on the boat were doomed.
This still doesn't explain why Straus (one of the intended targets) was offered a seat in a lifeboat.
This occurred April 14, 1912.

To celebrate the occassion, the evil MASONS made TAX DAY, which is April 15... the "Day After." The IRS is the FED's pitbull.

FED bill passed on 3 votes of the Senate on Christmas eve...

These are evil bastards who will kill you to get their way.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 602429
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Re: THE MOST PERFECT CRIME EVER COMMITTED:The Sinking Of The Titanic 1912, Created To Be A Tomb For The Wealthy Opposing The Federal Reserve Act 1913




White Star lines went on for many years after the Titanic had sank. It was Lord Kyslant bookkeeping scandal which was the demise of White Star. The linking of the sinking to the selling of White Star to Cunard is a canard.


Of course they did. That's why I said "eventually". White Star survived, but not with the same strength or reputation they had before the loss of Titanic. Thanks for the info on Lord Kyslant--I'll look into this one.



We're talkin' ritualistic sacrifice here. Not "extra value".
Money is of no object to these people. You're not seeing the full picture here, huh?


Don't hate the player, Steve, hate the game.

I still don't buy it. J.P. Morgan did not achieve his massive wealth and power by being stupid. The only master he served was money. Mind you, I'm not defending the man, I'm just stating the reality that the wealthy only make important decisions that increase their wealth. That's WHY they were wealthy to begin with. The 10 million dollar-plus cost of the Titanic wasn't chump change for anyone in 1912. Don't you find it interesting that the ship wasn't fully insured and that her insured portion was covered by White Star? Why would a ship intended to be deliberately sunk at least be covered? It's not like Titanic's insurance was at the forefront in the media and thus needed to be added to the deception masquerade by the "plotters." I'm not the type to believe such an outlandish mass-murder theory without hard evidence. I'd like to see:

1)Any primary source that shows Astor, Guggenheim, and Straus's opposition to the proposed Federal Reserve Act--and I mean the original Aldrich Bill. Without this, the murder plot does not have a motive.
2)Any primary source that indicates that not enough lifeboats were carried on the Titanic specifically for the Jesuits' murder plot. Remember, in 1912, NO transatlantic liners of any company carried enough boats to accomodate everyone aboard, because the law didn't require it. I'd also accept hard evidence linking the Jesuits with the British Board of Trade's lifeboat regulations. It's also relevant to note here that high speed in the region of ice was quite common, even at night, until after the Titanic sank.
3)Any primary source linking E.J. Smith with the Jesuits and any reliable source which shows that he took orders from anyone besides his employers. I'd also like to see evidence showing that Father Francis Browne had even met Smith. I haven't found anything suggesting that Browne had the power to influence Jesuit policy in any case.
4)Any reliable evidence linking J.P.Morgan or J. Bruce Ismay with the Jesuits or the Illuminati. I'd also love to see any concrete information that shows RMS Titanic was built for any purpose other than the passenger trade. It's worth mentioning here that Titanic's safety features were actually pretty standard for the time and she wasn't the most technically advanced or even the most well-known ship at the time of her voyage. This weakens the theory that the millionaires were especially lured into booking her for New York.

We historians can only interpret history when armed with evidence. Without it, there can be no "full picture." So far, I haven't seen a scrap of it this theory, either here or anywhere else.

Best Regards,
Steve
------
 Quoting: BOWMAN
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Re: THE MOST PERFECT CRIME EVER COMMITTED:The Sinking Of The Titanic 1912, Created To Be A Tomb For The Wealthy Opposing The Federal Reserve Act 1913
Just when I thought I'd heard it all, I get surprised again! If there's one thing people love, it's a good conspiracy theory. Unfortunately, this one isn't good at all. If the Titanic was originally intended to be a death ship (this cracked me up!) why did the builders bother giving her watertight compartments? The builders, Harland & Wolff, never claimed her to be unsinkable. Neither did the White Star Line--Shipbuilder Magazine stated that this new class of liners (Olympic and Titanic) were "designed to be practically unsinkable"--and the media picked up on it. The Titanic didn't carry too few lifeboats on purpose; in fact, she and her sister ship Olympic actually carried MORE lifeboats than the British Board of Trade required.

Another glaring inaccuracy is the claim that distress rockets were red. Distress rockets at this time were white. And Titanic fired 8 white rockets that night. The laws governing rockets at sea were in a state of flux at this time and some company signals were also white, which may have contributed to the Californian's inaction.

Captain Smith, far from trying to wreck the ship, took the southernmost route to New York because he knew that a mild winter that year had created more than the usual number of icebergs and figured that route should help avoid most of them.

This conspiracy theory develops another gaping hole when we consider the fact that Benjamin Guggenheim wasn't really that powerful a man at all--he wasn't a very competent businessman--Guggenheim squandered much of his inherited fortune before he died on the Titanic in a series of poor investments.

Isidor Straus was actually offered a seat in a lifeboat by one of Titanic's officers, but refused to go before the other men, and was lost with his wife. Why would one of the intended targets, the reason the $10,000,000 ship was built, be offered a means of escape by an officer "working for the Jesuits"? The offer of a seat in the lifeboat for Straus was witnessed by a number of survivors and is irrefutable. Why not spend that 10 million on a public campaign supporting the Federal Reserve Bill instead?

John Jacob Astor had divorced his wife and married an 18-year-old girl, which was absolutely scandalous in 1912. Astor was thus shunned by pretty much all of the wealthy socialite class, which would have greatly diminished his influence with Congress in stopping the Federal Reserve Act.

Which brings us to another hole in this piece of Swiss cheese: The Federal Reserve Act as it was proposed before the Titanic's sinking. The proposed Act, known as the Aldrich Bill, specified a Federal Reserve completely managed by the private banking profession in America. This would actually have been more favorable to people like Astor, Guggenheim, and Straus. The opponents of this plan were actually the poor and sparsely-settled rural and western states, who feared that this would give control to the wealthy private citizens rather than to the government. These opponents felt this would cause more of the same financial panics that had precipitated the Reserve Act bill in the first place.

After the Democrats won control of the White House and both houses of Congress in the 1912 elections, they replaced the Aldrich proposal in 1913 with the one that ended up being passed--which put the U.S. Treasury at the helm of American banking. This is the version that the wealthy who died on the Titanic would likely have opposed, but they died before this version was even drafted. If all opposition to the Federal Reserve Act died on the Titanic, how do we account for the 60 Congressmen who voted against it in 1913? More importantly, why the hell would the Morgans, Rothschilds, and Rockefellers support the creation of the Federal Reserve in the first place? It would harm them just as much as it would harm the Astors, Guggenheims, and Strauses. No wealthy financier wanted to see the government take control of anything, especially money.
And why would bankers give politicians money so they could take control of the banking establishment from them? bsflag
 Quoting: Steve 786621


Right...there was no conspiracy...just one trajic event/decision leading to another. The biggest reason being building flaws.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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Re: THE MOST PERFECT CRIME EVER COMMITTED:The Sinking Of The Titanic 1912, Created To Be A Tomb For The Wealthy Opposing The Federal Reserve Act 1913
More importantly, why the hell would the Morgans, Rothschilds, and Rockefellers support the creation of the Federal Reserve in the first place?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 761783


Because the Morgans, Rothschilds, and Rockefellers OWN the FED

Chart 1 reveals the linear connection between the Rothschilds and the Bank of England, and the London banking houses which ultimately control the Federal Reserve Banks through their stockholdings of bank stock and their subsidiary firms in New York. The two principal Rothschild representatives in New York, J. P. Morgan Co., and Kuhn,Loeb & Co. were the firms which set up the Jekyll Island Conference at which the Federal Reserve Act was drafted, who directed the subsequent successful campaign to have the plan enacted into law by Congress, and who purchased the controlling amounts of stock in the Federal Reserve Bank of New York in 1914. These firms had their principal officers appointed to the Federal Reserve Board of Governors and the Federal Advisory Council in 1914. In 1914 a few families (blood or business related) owning controlling stock in existing banks (such as in New York City) caused those banks to purchase controlling shares in the Federal Reserve regional banks. Examination of the charts and text in the House Banking Committee Staff Report of August, 1976 and the current stockholders list of the 12 regional Federal Reserve Banks show this same family control.

[link to www.save-a-patriot.org]


N.M. Rothschild , London - Bank of England
______________________________________
| |
| J. Henry Schroder

| Banking | Corp.
| |
Brown, Shipley - Morgan Grenfell - Lazard - |
& Company & Company Brothers |
| | | |
--------------------| -------| | |
| | | | | |
Alex Brown - Brown Bros. - Lord Mantagu - Morgan et Cie -- Lazard ---|
& Son | Harriman Norman | Paris Bros |
| | / | N.Y. |
| | | | | |
| Governor, Bank | J.P. Morgan Co -- Lazard ---|
| of England / N.Y. Morgan Freres |
| 1924-1938 / Guaranty Co. Paris |
| / Morgan Stanley Co. | /
| / | \Schroder Bank
| / | Hamburg/Berlin
| / Drexel & Company /
| / Philadelphia /
| / /
| / Lord Airlie
| / /
| / M. M. Warburg Chmn J. Henry Schroder
| | Hamburg --------- marr. Virginia F. Ryan
| | | grand-daughter of Otto
| | | Kahn of Kuhn Loeb Co.
| | |
| | |
Lehman Brothers N.Y -------------- Kuhn Loeb Co. N. Y.
| | --------------------------
µ
| | | |
8
| | | |
Lehman Brothers - Mont. Alabama Solomon Loeb Abraham Kuhn
| | __|______________________|_________
Lehman-Stern, New Orleans Jacob Schiff/Theresa Loeb Nina Loeb/Paul Warburg
------------------------- | | |
| | Mortimer Schiff James Paul Warburg
_____________|_______________/ |
| | | | |
Mayer Lehman | Emmanuel Lehman \
| | | \
Herbert Lehman Irving Lehman \
| | | \
Arthur Lehman \ Phillip Lehman John Schiff/Edith Brevoort Baker
/ | Present Chairman Lehman Bros
/ Robert Owen Lehman Kuhn Loeb - Granddaughter of
/ | George F. Baker
| / |
| / |
| / Lehman Bros Kuhn Loeb (1980)
| / |
| / Thomas Fortune Ryan
| | |
| | |
Federal Reserve Bank Of New York |
|||||||| |
______National City Bank N. Y. |
| | |
| National Bank of Commerce N.Y ---|
| | \
| Hanover National Bank N.Y. \
| | \
| Chase National Bank N.Y. \
| |
| |
Shareholders - National City Bank - N.Y. |
----------------------------------------- |
| /
James Stillman /
Elsie m. William Rockefeller /
Isabel m. Percy Rockefeller /
William Rockefeller Shareholders - National Bank of Commerce N. Y.
J. P. Morgan -----------------------------------------------
M.T. Pyne Equitable Life - J.P. Morgan
Percy Pyne Mutual Life - J.P. Morgan
J.W. Sterling H.P. Davison - J. P. Morgan
NY Trust/NY Edison Mary W. Harriman
Shearman & Sterling A.D. Jiullard - North British Merc. Insurance
| Jacob Schiff
| Thomas F. Ryan
| Paul Warburg
| Levi P. Morton - Guaranty Trust - J. P. Morgan
|
|
Shareholders - First National Bank of N.Y.
-------------------------------------------
J.P. Morgan
George F. Baker
George F. Baker Jr.
Edith Brevoort Baker
US Congress - 1946-64
|
|
|
|
|
Shareholders - Hanover National Bank N.Y.
------------------------------------------
James Stillman
William Rockefeller
|
|
|
|
|
Shareholders - Chase National Bank N.Y.
---------------------------------------
George F. Baker
Steve
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Re: THE MOST PERFECT CRIME EVER COMMITTED:The Sinking Of The Titanic 1912, Created To Be A Tomb For The Wealthy Opposing The Federal Reserve Act 1913
What, as opposed to pre-drilled holes and snake pits on board - Swinging pendulums and all? Look, if it was going to have the lore of the most pristene vessel ever assembled, it had to incorporate the best technology of the day.

Electronically-operated watertight compartments were the standard technology of the day. Lusitania and Mauretania were actually better-designed in this respect.

So if they could spend that kind of money on cutting edge technology and luxury, why rely on sub industry standard rivets, and installed in just the right places?

Where can I find evidence that her forward hull rivets were deliberately sub-standard? I am aware of the shortage of materials and workmen during construction.



The evidence suggests otherwise.

An extract from a White Star Line publicity brochure produced in 1910 for the twin ships Olympic and Titanic which states, these two wonderful vessels are designed to be unsinkable.

Aha--the key phrase "designed to be." This is VERY different from claiming the ships ARE unsinkable.




--Shipbuilder Magazine stated that this new class of liners (Olympic and Titanic) were "designed to be practically unsinkable"--and the media picked up on it.


This occured the following year in 1911. After the White Star brochure was issued. Hey Steve, do you think old J.P. had any friends in the media back then? I know this was all slightly before the whole public relations concept took hold, but that's a different story...

Public relations via media were just as important then as now--the technology is the only thing that's changed.




Original designs called for 12 more life boats than what was actually used. They were cut out of the budget to save money and deck space - ON PURPOSE!



in fact, she and her sister ship Olympic actually carried MORE lifeboats than the British Board of Trade required.


And far less then what was needed.

ON PURPOSE---how about some evidence? Actually, Titanic was fitted with davits that could accomodate 48 boats instead of the 20 that were ultimately carried. Ismay was a businessman, and realized that he could make more money by using the space for cabins and deck space.
Of course this was far less than needed, but as I noted in my other reply, NO transatlantic liner prior to the Titanic disaster carried enough lifeboats for everyone aboard. So an "on purpose" scenario for a murder plot is going to be a hard sell for me.




The watchmen onboard the Californian testified that when they went on duty, they not only observed the distress rockets, but could tell that the ship they were observing was listing! The Californians wireless operator was not awoken until a little after 5a.m. More then 2 hours after Titanic sank!

Look at the Senate Inquiry testimony again. You'll see that the supposed "listing" was finally interpreted by Californian's officers as "steaming away to the southwest."


And here comes old E.J. barreling in like a bull in a china shop - full steam white knuckle speed of 22 knots. Far too fast for the conditions as founded in the Titanic Inquiries.

Indeed it was too fast and after the sinking, this practice of normal speed through the ice regions was sensibly halted. Titanic's FULL speed had never been attained and her speed at the time was closer to 20.5 knots. A full-speed run was planned for the next day. Prior to the disaster, high speed under all but foggy conditions was pretty common, as reckless as it seems to us today. It was like playing Russian roulette, and old E.J. was the one who finally pulled the trigger on the loaded chamber.



Politicians are merely pawns who do what they are told by those that empower them. $$$$$$

Always have been, always will be.

No argument here! But for the banks to empower Congress to pass the FED in its final 1913 form seems to me like a chicken voting for Col. Sanders! The banks' ultimate power was diminished by this.

All the Best,

Steve
------
 Quoting: BOWMAN
Anonymous Coward
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Re: THE MOST PERFECT CRIME EVER COMMITTED:The Sinking Of The Titanic 1912, Created To Be A Tomb For The Wealthy Opposing The Federal Reserve Act 1913
Engineering flaws.
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Re: THE MOST PERFECT CRIME EVER COMMITTED:The Sinking Of The Titanic 1912, Created To Be A Tomb For The Wealthy Opposing The Federal Reserve Act 1913
Who Owns The Federal Reserve?
The Fed is privately owned. Its shareholders are private banks

[link to www.globalresearch.ca]

"Some people think that the Federal Reserve Banks are United States Government institutions. They are private monopolies which prey upon the people of these United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign customers; foreign and domestic speculators and swindlers; and rich and predatory money lenders."
Steve
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Re: THE MOST PERFECT CRIME EVER COMMITTED:The Sinking Of The Titanic 1912, Created To Be A Tomb For The Wealthy Opposing The Federal Reserve Act 1913






Because the Morgans, Rothschilds, and Rockefellers OWN the FED

Thanks for the clarification and for the chart! Their patronage of the FED makes a lot more sense now.

But it's still not clear to me why John Jacob Astor IV would have been particularly opposed to the FED, as most of his holdings were in real estate--he didn't dabble much in stock. I'd understand it if the Morgan/Rothschild/Rockefeller alliance meant to use their power over the banks to squeeze his interests, but I haven't found anything to suggest that there was a war between the two parties. If there was hostility, it would seem odd that Astor would choose to travel on one of his rival's ships--he wasn't forced or persuaded to book the Titanic for NY.

All the Best,

Steve
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Re: THE MOST PERFECT CRIME EVER COMMITTED:The Sinking Of The Titanic 1912, Created To Be A Tomb For The Wealthy Opposing The Federal Reserve Act 1913
OMG! You people can find a conspiracy in waffle making......wait.....just dont go there! lol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 580573


well "us people" realize the world would be peaceful and sane and equitable if it was not for the elite conspiring to create conditions favorable to their intentions and agenda.

iceberg my ass.
look who died.
look at the evidence of a conspiracy to commit this crime and all the other events that create conditions otherwise unobtainable...

"OMG" - the language of the sheep when startled.
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Re: THE MOST PERFECT CRIME EVER COMMITTED:The Sinking Of The Titanic 1912, Created To Be A Tomb For The Wealthy Opposing The Federal Reserve Act 1913



Because the Morgans, Rothschilds, and Rockefellers OWN the FED

Thanks for the clarification and for the chart! Their patronage of the FED makes a lot more sense now.

But it's still not clear to me why John Jacob Astor IV would have been particularly opposed to the FED, as most of his holdings were in real estate--he didn't dabble much in stock. I'd understand it if the Morgan/Rothschild/Rockefeller alliance meant to use their power over the banks to squeeze his interests, but I haven't found anything to suggest that there was a war between the two parties. If there was hostility, it would seem odd that Astor would choose to travel on one of his rival's ships--he wasn't forced or persuaded to book the Titanic for NY.

All the Best,

Steve
 Quoting: Steve 786621


I think the answer is simple: he was not invited to join the maiden trip: he boarded the titanic on his own title..
tommy777 (OP)

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Re: THE MOST PERFECT CRIME EVER COMMITTED:The Sinking Of The Titanic 1912, Created To Be A Tomb For The Wealthy Opposing The Federal Reserve Act 1913



Because the Morgans, Rothschilds, and Rockefellers OWN the FED

Thanks for the clarification and for the chart! Their patronage of the FED makes a lot more sense now.

But it's still not clear to me why John Jacob Astor IV would have been particularly opposed to the FED, as most of his holdings were in real estate--he didn't dabble much in stock. I'd understand it if the Morgan/Rothschild/Rockefeller alliance meant to use their power over the banks to squeeze his interests, but I haven't found anything to suggest that there was a war between the two parties. If there was hostility, it would seem odd that Astor would choose to travel on one of his rival's ships--he wasn't forced or persuaded to book the Titanic for NY.

All the Best,

Steve


I think the answer is simple: he was not invited to join the maiden trip: he boarded the titanic on his own title..
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 515900



And he had a reason to be on board, because:

At the age of 47, the divorced Astor was married a second time to 18-year–old Madeleine Talmadge Force on September 9, 1911 in his mother's ballroom at Beechwood, the family's Newport, Rhode Island home. He had been divorced two years earlier, and Madeleine was a year younger than Astor's son, Vincent. The couple took an extended honeymoon in Europe and Egypt to wait for the scandalous gossip to calm down. Among the few Americans of the socialite class who did not spurn him at this time was Margaret Brown, better known to posterity as "The Unsinkable Molly Brown". She accompanied the Astors to Egypt and France and, by coincidence, was called home to the U.S. at the same time the Astors also found it necessary to abbreviate their touring.

While traveling Madeleine became pregnant, and wanting the child born in the United States, the Astors booked first–class passage on the RMS Titanic which they boarded at Cherbourg, France.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

So, he was not on the "death list" of the bankers, and was not invited..he boarded himself...
A classic case of bad luck...

Last Edited by tommy777 on 10/08/2009 03:41 PM
The Mystery Channel
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Re: THE MOST PERFECT CRIME EVER COMMITTED:The Sinking Of The Titanic 1912, Created To Be A Tomb For The Wealthy Opposing The Federal Reserve Act 1913
Hahaha...
yes, that originaly was the conclusion of a History Channel documentary on the subject...

Well, you know, The history Channel is an Illuminati propaganda channel.
Or didn`t you know?
 Quoting: tommy777


I agree tommy777.... everyone should also take a look at The History Channel's logo. Look at the left side of it. What do you think that is? To me, it looks like pyramid, with it capstone restored, simply turned on it's side. I could be wrong & I have never quite understood it, so any thoughts on what that part of their logo is supposed to be or what it looks like to you?
CharlaneIn2009
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Re: THE MOST PERFECT CRIME EVER COMMITTED:The Sinking Of The Titanic 1912, Created To Be A Tomb For The Wealthy Opposing The Federal Reserve Act 1913
Again all Cox Broadcasting types (parent corporation, too) moving the publicity away from the true criminals/murderers.

The media is at a turning point for truth.

Peace to you. Have faith in love and in each other.
tommy777 (OP)

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Re: THE MOST PERFECT CRIME EVER COMMITTED:The Sinking Of The Titanic 1912, Created To Be A Tomb For The Wealthy Opposing The Federal Reserve Act 1913
Hahaha...
yes, that originaly was the conclusion of a History Channel documentary on the subject...

Well, you know, The history Channel is an Illuminati propaganda channel.
Or didn`t you know?


I agree tommy777.... everyone should also take a look at The History Channel's logo. Look at the left side of it. What do you think that is? To me, it looks like pyramid, with it capstone restored, simply turned on it's side. I could be wrong & I have never quite understood it, so any thoughts on what that part of their logo is supposed to be or what it looks like to you?
 Quoting: The Mystery Channel 787031


INDEED, you took the words right out of my mouth..
Look here: a search on google on: "history channel logo"

[link to www.google.com]

At the left of the "H" is a logo...Imagine you turn it 45 degrees...
WHAT DO YOU SEE..?

Indeed: A Pyramid, with a missing capstone..THE Illuminati symbol, that can also be found on the US dollar bill
Anonymous Coward
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x
tommy777 (OP)

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Re: THE MOST PERFECT CRIME EVER COMMITTED:The Sinking Of The Titanic 1912, Created To Be A Tomb For The Wealthy Opposing The Federal Reserve Act 1913
Hahaha...
yes, that originaly was the conclusion of a History Channel documentary on the subject...

Well, you know, The history Channel is an Illuminati propaganda channel.
Or didn`t you know?


I agree tommy777.... everyone should also take a look at The History Channel's logo. Look at the left side of it. What do you think that is? To me, it looks like pyramid, with it capstone restored, simply turned on it's side. I could be wrong & I have never quite understood it, so any thoughts on what that part of their logo is supposed to be or what it looks like to you?


INDEED, you took the words right out of my mouth..
Look here: a search on google on: "history channel logo"

[link to www.google.com]

At the left of the "H" is a logo...Imagine you turn it 45 degrees...
WHAT DO YOU SEE..?

Indeed: A Pyramid, with a missing capstone..THE Illuminati symbol, that can also be found on the US dollar bill
 Quoting: tommy777


See here:

[link to www.munic.state.ct.us]

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