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Calling metal and plumbing gurus

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 597029
Australia
01/29/2009 02:28 AM
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Calling metal and plumbing gurus
I've just made a distiller (for water) using a stainless steel billycan modified with a brass fitting.

It works great but the resulting water has a fucking metallic taste. I've done some half-assed research and according to:
[link to 209.85.173.132]
brass plumbing fixtures can leach lead into water, especially hot water.

Does this go away after a while? Is there anything I do?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 601997
Norway
01/29/2009 02:46 AM
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Re: Calling metal and plumbing gurus
I've seen a procedure using hydrogen peroxide and some sort of soap or other chemical used to leech the lead out of brass fittings.

Google it.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 597029
Australia
01/29/2009 02:55 AM
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Re: Calling metal and plumbing gurus
Will do, thanks

But I'm not really worried about the lead, theres probably not enough in that small fitting to do too much damage. I'm more worried about the taste of it. It seems to leave me with a thirst as well.

I'm wondering if it will go away after a few hours boiling it or alternatively if there something I can spray it with to coat it, that'll handle 100C and is not toxic?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 601997
Norway
01/29/2009 02:58 AM
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Re: Calling metal and plumbing gurus
If the still is true stainless and impeccably clean, there should be no taste whatsoever.

Ask at homedistillers.org.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 391228
United States
01/29/2009 03:06 AM
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Re: Calling metal and plumbing gurus
Maybe you could cover it with silver solder? don't really know with out seeing it.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 597029
Australia
01/29/2009 03:09 AM
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Re: Calling metal and plumbing gurus
I've seen a procedure using hydrogen peroxide and some sort of soap or other chemical used to leech the lead out of brass fittings.

Google it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 601997


For anyone that cares:
snip from [link to brewingrabble.com]

...
Because 98% Acetic Acid and 30% Hydrogen Peroxide are not available to the average brewer, the experiment was repeated using the concentrations available in the supermarket. These are 5% Acetic Acid (White Distilled Vinegar) and 3% Hydrogen Peroxide. Due to the difference in concentration, the relative concentration ratio is changed. For the household variety concentrations, a 2-to-1 volume ratio of Acetic Acid to H2O2 is needed.

The process was expected to take longer with the more dilute solution, so the brass part was immersed for 10 minutes. The results showed the same gold color and the Lead Test swab indicated the lead had been removed. The buttery yellow gold color can be used as an indicator that the process has completed. Home Lead Test kits should be available at most hardware stores.
...
2:1 white distilled vinegar to hydrogen peroxide, 10 mins.
Bill Caldonia
User ID: 413049
United States
01/29/2009 03:12 AM
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Re: Calling metal and plumbing gurus
You'd certainly want to have a test/analysis taken on a sample of your distilled water before calling it a success.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 597029
Australia
01/29/2009 03:14 AM
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Re: Calling metal and plumbing gurus
If the still is true stainless and impeccably clean, there should be no taste whatsoever.

Ask at homedistillers.org.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 601997


The stainless is fine, I've had this billy for years and drank and eaten out of it hundreds of times - it's the brass.

I know, I licked the brass and it tastes just like the water produced. LOL - seriously.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 391228
United States
01/29/2009 03:18 AM
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Re: Calling metal and plumbing gurus
Is the fitting being used as a coupling?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 597029
Australia
01/29/2009 03:18 AM
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Re: Calling metal and plumbing gurus
Maybe you could cover it with silver solder? don't really know with out seeing it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 391228


Hmmm. Not a bad idea. It's hard to explain it, I'll see if I can get a diagram uploaded, but the condensed water sits around the brass for a while.

I think if it just passed through, the tainting would be a lot less.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 391228
United States
01/29/2009 03:24 AM
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Re: Calling metal and plumbing gurus
Maybe you could cover it with silver solder? don't really know with out seeing it.


Hmmm. Not a bad idea. It's hard to explain it, I'll see if I can get a diagram uploaded, but the condensed water sits around the brass for a while.

I think if it just passed through, the tainting would be a lot less.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 597029

If it's some thing that doesn't have to be taken apart regularly then the solder should work fine.
falldown

User ID: 520470
United States
01/29/2009 03:25 AM
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Re: Calling metal and plumbing gurus
Silver solder's a bad idea, the cadmium in it will kill you before anything in the brass will. Can't you just replace the brass fitting with a copper one? The copper will help remove some toxins from your "water", too.

Edit: Cadmium toxicity

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
~
~
"He who does not understand your silence will probably not understand your words." ~Elbert Hubbard
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 597029
Australia
01/29/2009 03:33 AM
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Re: Calling metal and plumbing gurus
OK here's the design:
[link to www.doomguide.com]
The collection pan is small pan that comes with the billy and inserts into the top.
The brass fitting is shown in orange (it's actually two pieces, but you get the idea)
The pot that sits on top is just another SS saucepan full of cold water to aid in condensation.

As you can see, the collected water sits around the brass, at near boiling point for some time.
There's going to be a tube coming out the side as soon as I can get some 1/4" copper, but I'm testing this configuration for now.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 597029
Australia
01/29/2009 03:37 AM
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Re: Calling metal and plumbing gurus
Silver solder's a bad idea, the cadmium in it will kill you before anything in the brass will. Can't you just replace the brass fitting with a copper one? The copper will help remove some toxins from your "water", too.

Edit: Cadmium toxicity

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
 Quoting: falldown


OK thanks Falldown, guess that rules that out.
I just bought what they had at the hardware, which was limited. I thought I couldn't go wrong with brass, oh well, live and learn eh?

BTW what happened to that sexy wobbly avatar you had before?
falldown

User ID: 520470
United States
01/29/2009 03:45 AM
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Re: Calling metal and plumbing gurus
Silver solder's a bad idea, the cadmium in it will kill you before anything in the brass will. Can't you just replace the brass fitting with a copper one? The copper will help remove some toxins from your "water", too.

Edit: Cadmium toxicity

[link to en.wikipedia.org]


OK thanks Falldown, guess that rules that out.
I just bought what they had at the hardware, which was limited. I thought I couldn't go wrong with brass, oh well, live and learn eh?

BTW what happened to that sexy wobbly avatar you had before?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 597029

I got bored of it. It's a standard avatar, I just added the ripple, but after several months of having it, time to change.
~
~
"He who does not understand your silence will probably not understand your words." ~Elbert Hubbard
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 597029
Australia
01/29/2009 03:59 AM
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Re: Calling metal and plumbing gurus
Silver solder's a bad idea, the cadmium in it will kill you before anything in the brass will. Can't you just replace the brass fitting with a copper one? The copper will help remove some toxins from your "water", too.

Edit: Cadmium toxicity

[link to en.wikipedia.org]


OK thanks Falldown, guess that rules that out.
I just bought what they had at the hardware, which was limited. I thought I couldn't go wrong with brass, oh well, live and learn eh?

BTW what happened to that sexy wobbly avatar you had before?

I got bored of it. It's a standard avatar, I just added the ripple, but after several months of having it, time to change.
 Quoting: falldown


Fair enough
Your new one's pretty cool too
himself

User ID: 603329
United States
01/29/2009 06:18 AM
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Re: Calling metal and plumbing gurus
OP,
Simplest solution is to make it ALL stainless.
(fittings, tubing, everything)

Introducing dissimiliar metals never makes anything better.

Your brass/copper/stainless ideas will just produce a really inefficient 'battery' that will eat up the copper first, brass next and corrode the stainless.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 597029
Australia
01/29/2009 06:44 AM
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Re: Calling metal and plumbing gurus
OP,
Simplest solution is to make it ALL stainless.
(fittings, tubing, everything)

Introducing dissimiliar metals never makes anything better.

Your brass/copper/stainless ideas will just produce a really inefficient 'battery' that will eat up the copper first, brass next and corrode the stainless.
 Quoting: himself


Good thinking there pissed off looking cat, I didn't even think about the dissimilar metals and the corrosive effect they have, though I wonder because it's only distilled water coming into contact with them, so would a current still be induced? The 'dirty' water only touches SS.

That said, you're right that SS all round would be best. I want a still that will last a lifetime and then some, but I'm planning on spending a few weeks camping and there's no fresh water where I'm going, so I need something working now. If I have to suck down some brass then so be it. It beats salt water.
himself

User ID: 603329
United States
01/29/2009 07:30 AM
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Re: Calling metal and plumbing gurus
...
Good thinking there pissed off looking cat, ...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 597029

I had an actual recent picture of me smiling for an avatar
but people seem to prefer the cat so I changed it back.

No water is ever 100% pure.

The galvanic couple I referred to is just normal and any pipe tradesman or engineer knows about it.

Moonshiners learn it the hard way.

Best advice for camping and wanting clean pure water from any source?

Hand pump Reverse osmosis water purifier.


I have used a solar still in the desert and it worked to provide drinkable water from gathered plant material and damp sand.

Transparent plastic stretched over a small hand dug hole.
Cup at center.
Pebble atop plastic to make a low point so condensation will drip into cup placed in bottom of hole.
Plant matter around cup.
Sun drives the still.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 597029
Australia
01/29/2009 08:21 AM
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Re: Calling metal and plumbing gurus
Hey thanks Himself, wasn't making fun of your av, but that is one seriously pissed off looking cat. lol

I went on a short hike a few years ago, that turned into 6 months because I was enjoying it, at one point I was confident that the river I was following was, at least, freshwater (being over 200km inland) unfortunately I found out, first hand, about the groundwater salinity problem in the area and I had about 1/2 liter water, and a 20K trek to a road. It was a fuckin hot day too.

By the time I managed to cobble together a still my vision was blurry and I was having trouble remembering where I was. It took me hours to get a tobacco tin full of distilled water and I had to babysit the setup to stop the only plastic I had from melting.

I slept (and dreamt about water) and spent 3 or so hours walking to the road where a nice older couple finally picked me up and gave me water.

That was not intended but it taught me some valuable lessons about the #1 survival need.
------------------------------------
Reverse osmosis will kill bacteria and viruses (15nm pore size I think), but not salt. Commercial desalination uses reverse osmosis to filter out salt but the pressure is immense.
There are desalination kits you can buy, that work like a still but create a vacuum so water evaporates at normal temperatures. You still need to boil it and they are fuckin expensive!!

#1 water filtration method? Distillation. Let the water steam and anything that boils at below 100C will evaporate - start the distillation process and everything else is left behind. Viri and bacteria are all killed stone dead.

But can I go to a camping store and buy a distiller I can stick on a campfire? No! So I have to make my own.
------------------------------------------
So I thank you, Himself, Falldown, 391228, 601997 and even Bill Caldonia for your help. And the rest of you loons that are lurking. Make one now!

You won't regret it





GLP