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Question for The Vegans/Veggies

 
HannibalTheCannibal (OP)

User ID: 599555
United Kingdom
02/03/2009 03:31 AM
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Re: Question for The Vegans/Veggies
Do you know that everyone in the world could be fed with ease if we didn't dedicate a disproportionate percentage of land and water to raising animals?

I believe the amounts involved are something like 1 acre of land that is used to raise cattle will produce 1 pound of protein, whereas the same acre of land used to grow soy beans will provide 17 pounds of protein.

Who is selfish here?
 Quoting: mirabilis


I covered this in either this thread or another thread, technically in acres the country of australia is big enough to supply each household unit with one ace of land each.

Yes the entire population in the world could live in australia and have just over an acre for each family, that would leave the entire rest of the world for farming and animal habitat.

The problem is not lack of space for providing food, this arguement the anti meat brigade use is BS.

The problem is corruption, people are starving because very nasty people in power benefit from the world being in such an awful state, it has nothing to do with the production side of things, there is enough land to provide food for the entire population.
There is NO PROFIT IN PEACE, There is NO PROPHET IN PEACE.

Resident GLP Religion HATER and PROUD Atheist.

Carl Sagan "A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism."

[link to img181.imageshack.us]
HannibalTheCannibal (OP)

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02/03/2009 03:36 AM
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Re: Question for The Vegans/Veggies
Ridiculous. Right and wrong are universal.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 466070


Bullshit.

Example, you must kill one chicken or i will kill two.


But i know what you are going to say before you say it, you are going to say you wouldnt kill either, or you would let me kill the two, because then you are not responsible.

Typically avoiding the philsophical issue, morality is subjective and variable.

I have no problems with being cruel or horrible if circumstances dictate i have to be, anybody who thinks otherwise is going to last all of about 5 minutes in a SHTF scenario.
There is NO PROFIT IN PEACE, There is NO PROPHET IN PEACE.

Resident GLP Religion HATER and PROUD Atheist.

Carl Sagan "A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism."

[link to img181.imageshack.us]
HannibalTheCannibal (OP)

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02/03/2009 03:41 AM
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Re: Question for The Vegans/Veggies
Can you honestly say that you have more right to life than an animal?
 Quoting: mirabilis


Yes, because i am contained within the confines of this shell, my survival is paramount and the most important thing.
There is NO PROFIT IN PEACE, There is NO PROPHET IN PEACE.

Resident GLP Religion HATER and PROUD Atheist.

Carl Sagan "A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism."

[link to img181.imageshack.us]
HannibalTheCannibal (OP)

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02/03/2009 03:48 AM
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Re: Question for The Vegans/Veggies
Most forestry that is being destroyed in the world is being destroyed for grazing for cattle, not to grow arable crops.

 Quoting: mirabilis


Where was that moral yo-yoing when they layed that fibre optic cable for your internet under the sea destorying animal habbit.

Or when they launched that satelite poluting and destroying the environment.

Do you own a car? Tractor? Do you use electricity from a powerstation? Natural Gas?
There is NO PROFIT IN PEACE, There is NO PROPHET IN PEACE.

Resident GLP Religion HATER and PROUD Atheist.

Carl Sagan "A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism."

[link to img181.imageshack.us]
HannibalTheCannibal (OP)

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02/03/2009 03:55 AM
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Re: Question for The Vegans/Veggies
What an incredible egotistical statement! I am a vegan but it's comments like that that paint us all with a holier-than-thou art attitude!

I made a choice but I also chose to respect the choice of others and not to judge them for it.


I know a lot of meat eaters whose ethics I aspire to raise myself to.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 563711


Word, i abstain from eating beef, pork and lamb myself because i have seen industrialized farming in action.

I eat free range poultry and fish though.

However i know enough about philsophy to kow that once you claim to be of higher moral fibre than your peers, it can all start to fall apart with moral paradoxes pretty quickly, it is almost imposible to live a moral and ethnical life, the act of existing means we are detrimental to the exsistance of other animals.
There is NO PROFIT IN PEACE, There is NO PROPHET IN PEACE.

Resident GLP Religion HATER and PROUD Atheist.

Carl Sagan "A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism."

[link to img181.imageshack.us]
mirabilis

User ID: 606874
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02/03/2009 11:39 AM
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Re: Question for The Vegans/Veggies
Yes the entire population in the world could live in australia and have just over an acre for each family, that would leave the entire rest of the world for farming and animal habitat.

The problem is not lack of space for providing food, this arguement the anti meat brigade use is BS.

The problem is corruption, people are starving because very nasty people in power benefit from the world being in such an awful state, it has nothing to do with the production side of things, there is enough land to provide food for the entire population.
 Quoting: HannibalTheCannibal


There is also the slight problem that much of the land in the world is unsuitable for growing crops, either because it is desert or one sort or another, or at too high an elevation, or contaminated with salt or already over-used to the point of destruction. Large areas of land also have to be allowed to stay uncultivated to allow for natural run-off etc or there will be problems with flash flooding as has been seen recently in the UK.

I don't doubt however that at present corruption also plays its part in starvation.

Yes, because i am contained within the confines of this shell, my survival is paramount and the most important thing.
 Quoting: HannibalTheCannibal


Well obviously I don't need to argue this point because you already know how very subjective and limited this argument is, and that absolutely anything can be supported by it, including killing your a man on the street because he has money and you do not. This is not an argument that is able to support a civilised society and it is the reason we have laws, because the logical and very rapid outcome of that argument is anarchy.

Where was that moral yo-yoing when they layed that fibre optic cable for your internet under the sea destorying animal habbit.

Or when they launched that satelite poluting and destroying the environment.

Do you own a car? Tractor? Do you use electricity from a powerstation? Natural Gas?

 Quoting: HannibalTheCannibal


None of this has anything to do with the present discussion - I will happily debate any of it with you in another thread but for now please try to stick to the relevant subject or you will only stand accused of 'straw man' arguments.

However i know enough about philsophy to kow that once you claim to be of higher moral fibre than your peers, it can all start to fall apart with moral paradoxes pretty quickly
 Quoting: HannibalTheCannibal


I believe that you are confusing moral superiority with superiority as a human being. I can believe that my morals regarding the eating of meat are better than yours without believing that I am a better person than you are. Not all morals are equal in value and moral relativism is a dangerous path to walk. I don't imagine for an instant that you hold all morals to be equal in value do you? But I assume that you would hold all humans to be equal in value irrespective of their moral or ethical convictions? If I choose to be a vegetarian of course I hold that moral stance to be the superior moral stance, else I would not hold that conviction. No-one says "the correct moral stance is to be honest but I will choose to be dishonest instead", rather they convince themselves that in this instance the correct moral stance is to be dishonest (or they don't consider the question at all of course). I doubt that you consider your own moral postions to be inferior to those of others do you?
"As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light of meaning in the darkness of mere being" Carl Jung

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