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Vatican finally shows some common sense, says Holocaust denier must recant

 
Guns n' God
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Vatican finally shows some common sense, says Holocaust denier must recant
VATICAN CITY – The Vatican, bowing to the growing furor over Pope Benedict XVI's decision to accept a return to the church of a prelate who denied the Holocaust, made a dramatic turnaround Wednesday and demanded the bishop recant.

The Vatican sought to distance the pope from the controversy by saying he did not know about British Bishop Richard Williamson's views when he agreed to lift his excommunication last month.

In the surprisingly public spat, some leading cardinals in Germany and at the Vatican blamed unidentified aides for not fully briefing the pope.

The controversy provided a rare look at the cracks in the Vatican's facade of unity and raised questions about the advice the pope receives and his access to information. Papal aides say Benedict, a former university professor and theologian, receives a daily news summary and occasionally watches television.

The statement was issued by the Vatican's Secretariat of State a day after German Chancellor Angela Merkel urged the pope to make a clearer rejection of Holocaust denials. Top German church officials, Jewish groups and the head of the U.S. bishops conference also condemned Williamson.

In a sign of just how much the Vatican had misread the public mood, the secretary of state, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, was quoted Tuesday as saying he considered the matter "closed" after Benedict issued a lengthy denunciation of Holocaust deniers last week.

Rabbi Marvin Hier, founder of the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles, said he took Benedict at his word that he didn't know about Williamson's views, but said he couldn't believe Vatican aides didn't do more research to better inform the pope.

"This was absolutely a matter that was bungled at the highest levels of the Vatican," Hier said. "If they Googled the name `Bishop Williamson,' they'd find out he was a Holocaust denier. This did not require advanced research at the Vatican Library or Oxford."

"Everybody knows he's an anti-Semite," since Williamson has been vocal about his views, making speeches and publishing a blog, Hier said. "The other Holocaust deniers are rabid, anti-Semites who can't claim any legitimacy. But when a person calls himself bishop and he was invited back into the Catholic Church by none other than the pope, he brings with him an aura of legitimacy. And that legitimacy stains the pope. So the pope today finally made the right decision, that (Williamson) must recant."

Williamson was shown on Swedish state television just days before the lifting of his excommunication was announced on Jan. 24, acknowledging his view that "there was not one Jew killed by the gas chambers" during World War II.

He said historical evidence "is hugely against 6 million Jews having been deliberately gassed in gas chambers as a deliberate policy of Adolf Hitler."

Williamson subsequently apologized to the pope for having stirred controversy, but he did not repudiate his comments, in which he also said only 200,000 to 300,000 Jews were killed by the Nazis and none were gassed.

"Germany has paid out billions and billions of deutschmarks and now euros because the Germans have a guilt complex about their having gassed 6 million Jews. Well, I don't think 6 million Jews were gassed," he said.

The controversy threatened to mar Benedict's strong record in building Catholic-Jewish relations, which included visits to the Nazi Auschwitz death camp in Poland and synagogues in Germany and the United States.

Jewish leaders welcomed the Vatican's move Wednesday.

"Had all this been expressed at the outset, we could have avoided the unnecessary damage and distress," Rabbi David Rosen, international director of interreligious affairs of the American Jewish Committee, said in an e-mail following Wednesday's statement.

Williamson and three other bishops were excommunicated in 1988 after they were consecrated by the late ultraconservative Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre without papal consent.

Lefebvre founded the traditionalist Society of St. Pius X in 1969, which opposes the liberalizing reforms of the Second Vatican Council, including its outreach to Jews.

The Holy See said when it announced the rehabilitation of the bishops that removing the excommunication did not mean the Vatican shared Williamson's views.

In the statement Wednesday, the Vatican said that while Williamson's excommunication had been lifted, he still had no canonical function in the church because he was consecrated illegitimately by Lefebvre.

"Bishop Williamson, in order to be admitted to episcopal functions within the church, will have to take his distance, in an absolutely unequivocal and public fashion, from his position on the Shoah, which the Holy Father was not aware of when the excommunication was lifted," the statement said. Shoah is the Hebrew word for the Holocaust.

In addition to its demand of Williamson, the Vatican said the society as a whole must fully recognize the teachings of Vatican II and all the popes who came during and after it in order to have a legitimate canonical function in the church.

Jewish groups praised the Vatican statement, saying it satisfied their key demand. "This was the sign the Jewish world has been waiting for," said Ronald Lauder, president of the World Jewish Congress.

Elan Steinberg, vice president of the American Gathering of Holocaust Survivors and their Descendants, thanked Merkel for her "righteous comments" and said the process of healing the "deep wound that this crisis caused to the Catholic-Jewish dialogue" could now begin.

Last week, Benedict said he felt "full and indisputable solidarity" with Jews and warned against any denial of the full horror of the Nazi genocide, but his comments fell short of demands the bishop be publicly reprimanded.

There was no answer to several calls placed Wednesday to Williamson's home in La Reja, Argentina. Williamson could face charges in Germany, where he was interviewed by Swedish TV. State prosecutors have opened a preliminary investigation into whether Williamson broke German laws against Holocaust denial.

[link to news.yahoo.com]
Anonymous Coward
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02/04/2009 10:18 PM
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Re: Vatican finally shows some common sense, says Holocaust denier must recant
too much fuss from world leaders over a human beings OPINION

somethings up, he's probably on the right track and they need to knock him down to protect one of their many grand lies
Anonymous Coward
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02/04/2009 10:22 PM
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Re: Vatican finally shows some common sense, says Holocaust denier must recant
holohoax
Guns n' God (OP)

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02/04/2009 10:23 PM
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Re: Vatican finally shows some common sense, says Holocaust denier must recant
too much fuss from world leaders over a human beings OPINION

somethings up, he's probably on the right track and they need to knock him down to protect one of their many grand lies
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 594577

Wrong!
Guns n' God (OP)

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02/04/2009 10:23 PM
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Re: Vatican finally shows some common sense, says Holocaust denier must recant
holohoax
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 607938

Extremely wrong!!!
Maximus Interruptus

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02/04/2009 11:51 PM
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Re: Vatican finally shows some common sense, says Holocaust denier must recant
utterly ridiculous.
the genocide happened, and to many an ethnicity.
some people, like this fella, just doesn't believe in the related 'prophecy'.
the issue is the name, Holocaust. It should be known as WWII Genocide.
and the pissing and moaning will cease.
silence is golden....
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2009 12:24 AM
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Re: Vatican finally shows some common sense, says Holocaust denier must recant
Another Zionist shill thread.Me thinks thoust protest to much. bsflag
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2009 12:27 AM
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Re: Vatican finally shows some common sense, says Holocaust denier must recant
VATICAN CITY – The Vatican, bowing to the growing furor over Pope Benedict XVI's decision to accept a return to the church of a prelate who denied the Holocaust, made a dramatic turnaround Wednesday and demanded the bishop recant.

The Vatican sought to distance the pope from the controversy by saying he did not know about British Bishop Richard Williamson's views when he agreed to lift his excommunication last month.

In the surprisingly public spat, some leading cardinals in Germany and at the Vatican blamed unidentified aides for not fully briefing the pope.

The controversy provided a rare look at the cracks in the Vatican's facade of unity and raised questions about the advice the pope receives and his access to information. Papal aides say Benedict, a former university professor and theologian, receives a daily news summary and occasionally watches television.

The statement was issued by the Vatican's Secretariat of State a day after German Chancellor Angela Merkel urged the pope to make a clearer rejection of Holocaust denials. Top German church officials, Jewish groups and the head of the U.S. bishops conference also condemned Williamson.

In a sign of just how much the Vatican had misread the public mood, the secretary of state, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, was quoted Tuesday as saying he considered the matter "closed" after Benedict issued a lengthy denunciation of Holocaust deniers last week.

Rabbi Marvin Hier, founder of the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles, said he took Benedict at his word that he didn't know about Williamson's views, but said he couldn't believe Vatican aides didn't do more research to better inform the pope.

"This was absolutely a matter that was bungled at the highest levels of the Vatican," Hier said. "If they Googled the name `Bishop Williamson,' they'd find out he was a Holocaust denier. This did not require advanced research at the Vatican Library or Oxford."

"Everybody knows he's an anti-Semite," since Williamson has been vocal about his views, making speeches and publishing a blog, Hier said. "The other Holocaust deniers are rabid, anti-Semites who can't claim any legitimacy. But when a person calls himself bishop and he was invited back into the Catholic Church by none other than the pope, he brings with him an aura of legitimacy. And that legitimacy stains the pope. So the pope today finally made the right decision, that (Williamson) must recant."

Williamson was shown on Swedish state television just days before the lifting of his excommunication was announced on Jan. 24, acknowledging his view that "there was not one Jew killed by the gas chambers" during World War II.

He said historical evidence "is hugely against 6 million Jews having been deliberately gassed in gas chambers as a deliberate policy of Adolf Hitler."

Williamson subsequently apologized to the pope for having stirred controversy, but he did not repudiate his comments, in which he also said only 200,000 to 300,000 Jews were killed by the Nazis and none were gassed.

"Germany has paid out billions and billions of deutschmarks and now euros because the Germans have a guilt complex about their having gassed 6 million Jews. Well, I don't think 6 million Jews were gassed," he said.

The controversy threatened to mar Benedict's strong record in building Catholic-Jewish relations, which included visits to the Nazi Auschwitz death camp in Poland and synagogues in Germany and the United States.

Jewish leaders welcomed the Vatican's move Wednesday.

"Had all this been expressed at the outset, we could have avoided the unnecessary damage and distress," Rabbi David Rosen, international director of interreligious affairs of the American Jewish Committee, said in an e-mail following Wednesday's statement.

Williamson and three other bishops were excommunicated in 1988 after they were consecrated by the late ultraconservative Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre without papal consent.

Lefebvre founded the traditionalist Society of St. Pius X in 1969, which opposes the liberalizing reforms of the Second Vatican Council, including its outreach to Jews.

The Holy See said when it announced the rehabilitation of the bishops that removing the excommunication did not mean the Vatican shared Williamson's views.

In the statement Wednesday, the Vatican said that while Williamson's excommunication had been lifted, he still had no canonical function in the church because he was consecrated illegitimately by Lefebvre.

"Bishop Williamson, in order to be admitted to episcopal functions within the church, will have to take his distance, in an absolutely unequivocal and public fashion, from his position on the Shoah, which the Holy Father was not aware of when the excommunication was lifted," the statement said. Shoah is the Hebrew word for the Holocaust.

In addition to its demand of Williamson, the Vatican said the society as a whole must fully recognize the teachings of Vatican II and all the popes who came during and after it in order to have a legitimate canonical function in the church.

Jewish groups praised the Vatican statement, saying it satisfied their key demand. "This was the sign the Jewish world has been waiting for," said Ronald Lauder, president of the World Jewish Congress.

Elan Steinberg, vice president of the American Gathering of Holocaust Survivors and their Descendants, thanked Merkel for her "righteous comments" and said the process of healing the "deep wound that this crisis caused to the Catholic-Jewish dialogue" could now begin.

Last week, Benedict said he felt "full and indisputable solidarity" with Jews and warned against any denial of the full horror of the Nazi genocide, but his comments fell short of demands the bishop be publicly reprimanded.

There was no answer to several calls placed Wednesday to Williamson's home in La Reja, Argentina. Williamson could face charges in Germany, where he was interviewed by Swedish TV. State prosecutors have opened a preliminary investigation into whether Williamson broke German laws against Holocaust denial.

[link to news.yahoo.com]
 Quoting: Guns n' God


GREAT!

Now can we force the Israelis to admit that they are committing holocaust TODAY!

Can we force the Israelis to accept the nation of Palestine before we will speak to them or recognize their government?

Can we force the Israelis to accept the democratically elected Palestinian government before we will speak to them or recognize their government?

This whole story is a BS bomb. Israelis deny the holocaust of their own present day making. There is no reason why anybody should care who accepts or denies a holocaust that happened 70 years ago.

But if you do, then you better recognize the holocaust of the Palestinians 60 years ago, of the Armenians, of the American Indians etc.

Only about 1/3 of the German holocaust victims were even Jewish.

And even the German holocaust victims only represent about 5% of the millions slaughtered or enslaved under European imperialism.

Shouldn't it be the same crime to deny all of that?

Well in a world ruled by a just God it would be.
Rota

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02/05/2009 12:41 AM
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Re: Vatican finally shows some common sense, says Holocaust denier must recant
I guess that settles the old argument about who runs the show. It certainly isn't the Vatican.

Its obvious the Zionists are responsible for this crappy world. Their are in charge and buck stops with them. Every human on earth should sue them for bad management.

.
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2009 12:52 AM
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Re: Vatican finally shows some common sense, says Holocaust denier must recant
I guess that settles the old argument about who runs the show. It certainly isn't the Vatican.

Its obvious the Zionists are responsible for this crappy world. Their are in charge and buck stops with them. Every human on earth should sue them for bad management.

.
 Quoting: Rota

What makes you think the vatican doesn't control the zionists?
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2009 01:01 AM
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Re: Vatican finally shows some common sense, says Holocaust denier must recant
AND HERE IS ME THINKING THAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST IN GAZA.
Guns n' God (OP)

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02/05/2009 01:19 AM
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Re: Vatican finally shows some common sense, says Holocaust denier must recant
AND HERE IS ME THINKING THAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST IN GAZA.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 607880

What happened in Gaza was the Israeli people defending themselves.
Guns n' God (OP)

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02/05/2009 01:20 AM
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Re: Vatican finally shows some common sense, says Holocaust denier must recant
I guess that settles the old argument about who runs the show. It certainly isn't the Vatican.

Its obvious the Zionists are responsible for this crappy world. Their are in charge and buck stops with them. Every human on earth should sue them for bad management.

.

What makes you think the vatican doesn't control the zionists?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 608013

Why would the Vatican give in to pressure from a group it controls?
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2009 01:26 AM
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Re: Vatican finally shows some common sense, says Holocaust denier must recant
Wrong!
 Quoting: Guns n' God


You have a lot to learn.

Do a little research on the FACTS that are not even in dispute... The so-called crematoria didn't have exhaust stacks. Venting the gas would have killed everyone around the facility without an exhaust stack high enough in the air to send it outside the camp. The doors were not air tight.

You want to believe that fairy tale for your own psychological reasons. It is your duty, if you are intellectually honest, to determine why it is that you NEED to believe it.
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2009 01:27 AM
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Re: Vatican finally shows some common sense, says Holocaust denier must recant
Not more crap wtf
Guns n' God (OP)

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02/05/2009 01:33 AM
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Re: Vatican finally shows some common sense, says Holocaust denier must recant
Wrong!


You have a lot to learn.

Do a little research on the FACTS that are not even in dispute... The so-called crematoria didn't have exhaust stacks. Venting the gas would have killed everyone around the facility without an exhaust stack high enough in the air to send it outside the camp. The doors were not air tight.

You want to believe that fairy tale for your own psychological reasons. It is your duty, if you are intellectually honest, to determine why it is that you NEED to believe it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 484854

I love the First Amendment but statements like that make it clear that there need to be some limits on it. If there's one thing the Europeans got right, it's throwing Holocaust deniers in jail.
Lawman

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02/05/2009 01:45 AM
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Re: Vatican finally shows some common sense, says Holocaust denier must recant
I guess that settles the old argument about who runs the show. It certainly isn't the Vatican.

Its obvious the Zionists are responsible for this crappy world. Their are in charge and buck stops with them. Every human on earth should sue them for bad management.
.
 Quoting: Rota


2funnies
`
(Be) Divide(ed) and (be) Conquer(ed)...

Don’t listen to what they say, watch what they do.

~There is Tranquility in Ignorance, but Servitude is its Partner. —me
~What luck for Rulers that Men do not Think. —Adolf Hitler

:damned: Doom is optional. There is good news abounds.
Lawman

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02/05/2009 01:49 AM
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Re: Vatican finally shows some common sense, says Holocaust denier must recant
Jerry Seinfeld was an antiDentite...


`
(Be) Divide(ed) and (be) Conquer(ed)...

Don’t listen to what they say, watch what they do.

~There is Tranquility in Ignorance, but Servitude is its Partner. —me
~What luck for Rulers that Men do not Think. —Adolf Hitler

:damned: Doom is optional. There is good news abounds.
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2009 06:02 AM
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Re: Vatican finally shows some common sense, says Holocaust denier must recant
I guess that settles the old argument about who runs the show. It certainly isn't the Vatican.

Its obvious the Zionists are responsible for this crappy world. Their are in charge and buck stops with them. Every human on earth should sue them for bad management.

.

What makes you think the vatican doesn't control the zionists?

Why would the Vatican give in to pressure from a group it controls?
 Quoting: Guns n' God

Maybe it's all part of the show, ever think of that?
JADR

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02/05/2009 06:05 AM
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Re: Vatican finally shows some common sense, says Holocaust denier must recant
GREAT!

Now can we force the Israelis to admit that they are committing holocaust TODAY!

Can we force the Israelis to accept the nation of Palestine before we will speak to them or recognize their government?

Can we force the Israelis to accept the democratically elected Palestinian government before we will speak to them or recognize their government?

This whole story is a BS bomb. Israelis deny the holocaust of their own present day making. There is no reason why anybody should care who accepts or denies a holocaust that happened 70 years ago.

But if you do, then you better recognize the holocaust of the Palestinians 60 years ago, of the Armenians, of the American Indians etc.

Only about 1/3 of the German holocaust victims were even Jewish.

And even the German holocaust victims only represent about 5% of the millions slaughtered or enslaved under European imperialism.

Shouldn't it be the same crime to deny all of that?

Well in a world ruled by a just God it would be.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 608001


Thread: UNRWA : LORDS OF MISERY (How the palestinians cultivate their own misery)
Dear sir, poor sir, brave sir: You are an experiment by the Creator of the Universe. You are the only creature in the entire Universe who has free will. You are the only one who has to figure out what to do next--and why. Everybody else is a robot, a machine.

"MANE – THECEL – PHARES."
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2009 06:05 AM
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Re: Vatican finally shows some common sense, says Holocaust denier must recant
when a pèrson is not allowed to express their opinions its a sign that we all have to wake up to the fact that we live in a fascist dictatoreship.
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2009 06:07 AM
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Re: Vatican finally shows some common sense, says Holocaust denier must recant
when a person is not allowed to express their opinions its time to wake up to the realization that we live in a fascist big brother dictatorship.
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2009 06:11 AM
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Re: Vatican finally shows some common sense, says Holocaust denier must recant
What happened in Gaza was the Israeli people defending themselves.
 Quoting: Guns n' God


Tell that to the 500 dead Palestinian children. What exactly was their crime?
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2009 06:14 AM
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Re: Vatican finally shows some common sense, says Holocaust denier must recant
I love the First Amendment but statements like that make it clear that there need to be some limits on it. If there's one thing the Europeans got right, it's throwing Holocaust deniers in jail.
 Quoting: Guns n' God


Bollocks!

The TRUTH stands self evident, it doesn't need laws to prevent people questioning it.

I never questioned the authenticity of the Holocaust, but when they started throwing people in jail for asking questions it certainly made me think something was amiss.
JADR

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02/05/2009 06:15 AM
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Re: Vatican finally shows some common sense, says Holocaust denier must recant
What happened in Gaza was the Israeli people defending themselves.


Tell that to the 500 dead Palestinian children. What exactly was their crime?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 186361


They died because of Hamas negligence.
Dear sir, poor sir, brave sir: You are an experiment by the Creator of the Universe. You are the only creature in the entire Universe who has free will. You are the only one who has to figure out what to do next--and why. Everybody else is a robot, a machine.

"MANE – THECEL – PHARES."
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2009 06:39 AM
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Re: Vatican finally shows some common sense, says Holocaust denier must recant
They died because of Hamas negligence.
 Quoting: JADR


No they died because Israel dropped bombs and chemical weapons on them.
TimOsman
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02/05/2009 07:08 AM
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Re: Vatican finally shows some common sense, says Holocaust denier must recant
They died because of Hamas negligence.
 Quoting: JADR


Forcing people into concentration camps is wrong whether Jewish or Palestinian, Stealing homes and land is wrong, whether German Jews homes during WWII or Palestine from the people who have lived there for centuries.

Israel, Zionists and Jewish religious teachings tell that there needs to be total inhalation before a second coming. I want no part of such a hateful religion.

"Live by the sword die by the sword."
JADR

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02/05/2009 07:09 AM
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Re: Vatican finally shows some common sense, says Holocaust denier must recant
They died because of Hamas negligence.


No they died because Israel dropped bombs and chemical weapons on them.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 186361


nope.
Dear sir, poor sir, brave sir: You are an experiment by the Creator of the Universe. You are the only creature in the entire Universe who has free will. You are the only one who has to figure out what to do next--and why. Everybody else is a robot, a machine.

"MANE – THECEL – PHARES."
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2009 07:13 AM
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Re: Vatican finally shows some common sense, says Holocaust denier must recant
nope.
 Quoting: JADR


Really? Spontaneous combustion was it JADR???
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2009 07:38 AM
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Re: Vatican finally shows some common sense, says Holocaust denier must recant
I love the First Amendment but statements like that make it clear that there need to be some limits on it. If there's one thing the Europeans got right, it's throwing Holocaust deniers in jail.
 Quoting: Guns n' God


Instead of trying to limit the First Amendment, why don't you try answering the points I made. These are the very same points this Bishop brought up. Namely, the lack of exhaust towers on the so-called crematoria, and the lack of air-tight doors on the supposed crematoria rooms.
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2009 08:02 AM
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Re: Vatican finally shows some common sense, says Holocaust denier must recant
I guess that settles the old argument about who runs the show. It certainly isn't the Vatican.

Its obvious the Zionists are responsible for this crappy world. Their are in charge and buck stops with them. Every human on earth should sue them for bad management.

.

What makes you think the vatican doesn't control the zionists?

Why would the Vatican give in to pressure from a group it controls?

Maybe it's all part of the show, ever think of that?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 608121


lol

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