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Add to the homeless count >>Nursing homes forcing out residents, elderly are facing eviction

 
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Add to the homeless count >>Nursing homes forcing out residents, elderly are facing eviction
Even elderly are facing eviction

Complaints on rise of nursing homes forcing out residents

Last updated February 6, 2009 11:04 p.m. PT

By VANESSA HO
P-I REPORTER

For two years, Irene Henderer lived at the West Woods boarding home in Olympia, where she was known for her lively stories and sharp wit. But in November 2007, the home gave Henderer an eviction notice, along with 20 other Medicaid residents.

NEED HELP?

To contact the Washington Long-Term Care Ombudsman program, call 800-562-6028, or visit ltcop.org/index.htm

Henderer, 89, grew depressed and refused to leave her room for meals. As her move approached, she quietly asked her guardian: "Why can't I just die here?"

Three days after moving out, Henderer's congestive heart failure worsened. A month later, she died.

"That was her home," said Pam Privette, Henderer's legal guardian. "If she could have stayed there, we would not have gone through any of this -- the depression, the giving up on life. This pre-empted a natural death, in my opinion."

As health care costs rise and Medicaid rates lag behind, nursing and boarding homes are forcing out sick, elderly and frail residents in what advocates say is a growing trend. No official data exist on eviction counts, but discharge complaints have climbed to record highs.

The Washington Long-Term Care Ombudsman program handled more than 700 such complaints last year, nearly a 50 percent increase over the year before. Nationally, discharge-related complaints have more than doubled in a decade -- to 12,000 in 2007, according to the U.S. Administration on Aging.

"The system is getting frayed around the edges," said Louise Ryan, the state's long-term care ombudsman, or chief resident advocate.

"People are getting harder to take care of," she said. "When (homes) can find an opportunity to discharge the person, they will. The problem is especially hard with nursing homes, because where else are they going to go? It's the end of the line."

The results are often tragic.

Another woman evicted from West Woods wandered outside one night before her move, barefoot and in a nightgown, saying she wanted "to fall down and die in the cold," Ryan said.

In Grays Harbor County last year, an evicted mentally ill man left his boarding home a week after moving in, and was found dead near some railroad tracks. In other areas, evicted residents have ended up in homes nearly a hundred miles away from loved ones.

In 2007, Seattle University forced out 115 residents when it decided to convert its nursing home into office and class space. Three months later, 14 of the residents had died.

Social workers have a name for such a swift decline after a move: "transfer trauma."

"When you get older, just transferring from one room to another can be very traumatic," said Paul Tosch, the regional long-term care ombudsman serving Thurston, Mason and Lewis counties. "The windows, the ceilings, the front door, the bathroom are all different. In a worst-case scenario, confusion sets in. It can start dementia or increase dementia. Depression sets in. They shut themselves off and say, 'I'm not going to live.' "

Homes can legally evict a resident who fails to pay, becomes dangerous or has needs a home can't meet. Boarding homes can evict Medicaid residents by slashing public-assistance beds, but federal law bars nursing homes from kicking out residents solely because of Medicaid.

But advocates say many homes find ways to bend the laws. They say homes mislead families to lure in residents, and use the broad "can't meet needs" reason to force out difficult or expensive residents.

One of the most common types of eviction is when homes send a resident to the hospital and refuse to take him back, in a practice that resident advocates call "dumping."

"We have a lot of experiences with nursing homes who load somebody up in an ambulance on a Friday night. ... They do it on a Friday, I think, because advocates go home," said Vicki Elting, the regional ombudsman in King County. By Monday morning, hospitals are struggling with a discharged patient with nowhere to go.

Industry representatives deny that "dumping" occurs and say homes are diligent in taking only residents they can care for. They attribute the rise in discharge complaints to a younger, more vocal generation now living in homes.

"This urban myth that people are getting kicked out all the time -- there's no evidence of that," said Gary Weeks, executive director of the Washington Health Care Association, a group of 400 nursing and boarding homes.

Advocates counter that dumping rarely occurs to private-pay people, but to Medicaid residents such as Florence Wade, who had lived at the Regency at Tacoma Rehabilitation Center for roughly three years.

In January, Wade, 85, went to the hospital for pneumonia and a urinary tract infection. The nursing home refused to take her back, saying she had been uncooperative with caregivers in using a hydraulic lift to move her, according to Wade's daughter, Barbara Arnold.

Arnold argued that her mother, who is obese and wheelchair-bound, simply needed coaxing and had used the lift in the hospital. The home then accused her of not doing a "bed hold" -- which she never had to do in the past -- and said the room was gone anyway. Someone else had moved in.

"They had already packed my mother's room up," said Arnold, who owns a computer-training business. "They had no intention of taking her back."

The eviction left Arnold with one stressful option: a nursing home 45 minutes away -- too far for regular visits from friends and family.

"It is very, very hard," said Arnold, who believes her previous complaints about the home prompted the eviction. "My feeling is that by isolating her like that, she isn't going to last long."

Dell Workman, vice president of operations for Regency Pacific, which owns the Tacoma facility, said the home had assessed Wade's condition and determined it couldn't meet her needs. He said federal law barred him from commenting further on Wade's condition.

Other families have felt deceived by boarding homes that promised Medicaid beds and later reneged. Or by nursing homes that discharged residents with advanced Alzheimer's disease, after touting expert dementia care.

"It's unfair, unethical and greedy," said Nancy Dapper, executive director of the local Alzheimer's Association chapter. "You go to these places as a family and they say, 'Oh yes, we have an Alzheimer's care unit.' Unless the family is extraordinarily knowledgeable, they're not going to say, 'Can my mom die here?' "

Doug Campbell recalled asking the administrator of his mother's Port Townsend boarding home what would happen when his mother's money ran out. "(The administrator) said, 'As long as I'm here, your mother will not have to move,' " said Campbell, a retired teacher.

But the administrator soon left, and the home -- Victoria House -- evicted his deaf, blind, 97-year-old mother soon after she converted to Medicaid.

Victoria House and West Woods are owned by Assisted Living Concepts, a Wisconsin-based company with 200 homes nationwide and a market value of $290 million. The company did not return calls for comment.

Elting, the King County ombudsman, said some homes, desperate to fill beds, take in difficult residents with severe mental illnesses, addictions or complex medical needs. Unequipped to deal with them, the homes often end up forcing them out, creating a cycle of needing to fill beds.

"Unfortunately, there are people who have care needs who are discharged to a shelter, or the street," Elting said. "That's the most disgraceful end result of all this."

Weeks, of the state Health Care Association, disputed that practice.

"Why would (homes) admit somebody they know they're going to let go?" he said. "From a business perspective, our buildings are trying to stay as full as possible."

He said the more pressing problem is the growing gap between care costs and Medicaid payouts. Medicaid caseloads have also grown, because people are living longer and baby boomers are aging into long-term care.

With assisted living costing residents $3,000 to $6,000 a month, and nursing homes costing up to $10,000 a month, homes lose money daily on each Medicaid resident, Weeks said. On average the state pays out about $5,000 a month for a nursing home resident, and $2,000 for a boarding home resident.

To survive, nursing homes are seeking out residents with better coverage, he said.

[link to seattlepi.nwsource.com]
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The Queen Of Mean / VENOMmennonn

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The universe responds NOT to what you want.....it responds to what you are being.......are you being what you want?
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political correctness is a doctrine.... fostered by a delusional, illogical minority...... and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media; which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

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FREEDOM OF SPEECH:
Alan Isaacman
The People Vs Larry Flynt
"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, you've heard a lot here today and I won't try to go back over it all. But you have to go back in that room and make some decisions and there is one thing I want to make very clear to you before you do. I'm not trying to convince you that you should like what Larry Flynt does. I don't like what he does. But what I do like is... that I live in a country... where you and I can make that decision for ourselves. I like that I live in a country where I can pick up Hustler magazine... read it if I want... or throw it in the trash, if that's where I think it belongs. Or better yet I can express my opinion by not buying it. I like that right. I care about it. And you should care about it, too... because we live in a free country. We say that a lot, but sometimes we forget what that means, so listen again. We live in a free country. That is a powerful idea. That's a magnificent way to live. But there is a price for that freedom, which is that sometimes... we have to tolerate things that we don't necessarily like. So go back in that room... where you are free to think whatever you want to think... about Larry Flynt and Hustler magazine. But then ask yourselves if you want to make that decision for the rest of us... because the freedom that everyone in this room enjoys... is, in a very real way, in your hands. If we start throwing up walls against what some of us think is obscene... we may wake up one morning and realize... that walls have been thrown upin places we never expected... and we can't see anythingor... do anything. And that's not freedom. That is not freedom. So, be careful. Thank you."
VIDEO: [link to youtu.be]

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Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2009 02:44 PM
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Re: Add to the homeless count >>Nursing homes forcing out residents, elderly are facing eviction
I knew this was coming! Ever since gas and food prices skyrocketed, I knew it was going to cost a lot more for those homes. My dad was in one for his last year, three years ago, and when he got incontinent, the cost went up to $4400 a month.

I think Obamadrama will let them give cyanide capsules to the elderly, because, even those with that high priced ins. will not be able to afford to stay in a good (and yes, there are some good ones) home.

Unless he is preparing those FEMA camps to house them.

We thought we had saved enough to take care of ourselves in old age (almost 70 yrs now), but the investments we had made have lost about 45% so far. Husband has a long term neurological disease, and I am not sure how much longer I will be able to take care of him at home.

If the government will pass out those pills, I would be willing to take one if I became unable to stay in my home, and take care of myself.
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2009 02:57 PM
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Re: Add to the homeless count >>Nursing homes forcing out residents, elderly are facing eviction
This society needs to change. The problem would not exist if families were closer and elderly parents were kept at home and cared for by the younger family members. Not too much to do for those who cared for us, fed us, clothed us, housed us, when we were to young to care for ourselves.
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2009 02:57 PM
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Re: Add to the homeless count >>Nursing homes forcing out residents, elderly are facing eviction
This society needs to change. The problem would not exist if families were closer and elderly parents were kept at home and cared for by the younger family members. Not too much to do for those who cared for us, fed us, clothed us, housed us, when we were to young to care for ourselves.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 609767
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2009 03:09 PM
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Re: Add to the homeless count >>Nursing homes forcing out residents, elderly are facing eviction
This society needs to change. The problem would not exist if families were closer and elderly parents were kept at home and cared for by the younger family members. Not too much to do for those who cared for us, fed us, clothed us, housed us, when we were to young to care for ourselves.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 609767



This is an ideal thought but is not often possible. My husband and I both work and our children are too young to take care of an older person. My mother-in-law would be in danger of hurting hurself or burning down the house if we left her here alone during the day. She has advanced dementia and it is simply not possible to have her living with us.

We looked around and found a lovely assisted living facility in a house in a residential neighborhood. We pay $750/month, which covers everything. There are five other residents in the house and two full-time live-in caregivers. We show up often and at unpredictable times and my mother-in-law is always clean, well fed and well cared for. The ALF is state licensed and the owner has never had any complaints filed against her. They take care of everything. The doctor even comes to the house to see the residents so that they do not have to endure the stress of transportation and crowded waiting rooms.

We are very fortunate to have found this situation, but this should be the norm, not the exception. I cannot fathom why the typical ALF should charge $3,000+ per month and a nursing home $6,000+ per month. Nursing home care is quite substandard to the care my mother-in-law is currently receiving at a fraction of the price.

I think the answer must be that most nursing homes and ALFs are big, bloated, inefficient bureaucracies. I think more small, privately owned assisted living facilities could be a solution to this huge problem.
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2009 03:20 PM
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Re: Add to the homeless count >>Nursing homes forcing out residents, elderly are facing eviction
This society needs to change. The problem would not exist if families were closer and elderly parents were kept at home and cared for by the younger family members. Not too much to do for those who cared for us, fed us, clothed us, housed us, when we were to young to care for ourselves.



This is an ideal thought but is not often possible. My husband and I both work and our children are too young to take care of an older person. My mother-in-law would be in danger of hurting hurself or burning down the house if we left her here alone during the day. She has advanced dementia and it is simply not possible to have her living with us.

We looked around and found a lovely assisted living facility in a house in a residential neighborhood. We pay $750/month, which covers everything. There are five other residents in the house and two full-time live-in caregivers. We show up often and at unpredictable times and my mother-in-law is always clean, well fed and well cared for. The ALF is state licensed and the owner has never had any complaints filed against her. They take care of everything. The doctor even comes to the house to see the residents so that they do not have to endure the stress of transportation and crowded waiting rooms.

We are very fortunate to have found this situation, but this should be the norm, not the exception. I cannot fathom why the typical ALF should charge $3,000+ per month and a nursing home $6,000+ per month. Nursing home care is quite substandard to the care my mother-in-law is currently receiving at a fraction of the price.

I think the answer must be that most nursing homes and ALFs are big, bloated, inefficient bureaucracies. I think more small, privately owned assisted living facilities could be a solution to this huge problem.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 609802

It may be an ideal thought but it is also reality for some families. Too bad that both you and your husband need to work. Your children are also missing out. The family structure is crumbling in this country and the country along with it. What a mess!
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2009 03:21 PM
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Re: Add to the homeless count >>Nursing homes forcing out residents, elderly are facing eviction
How many people here have the ability to take in an aging, care-requiring parent?
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2009 03:27 PM
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Re: Add to the homeless count >>Nursing homes forcing out residents, elderly are facing eviction
I would rather die. Seriously. If I can't see my children, get up and go to the bathroom, am forced to rely on strangers to wipe my arse, then evicted to someplace even worse, I would rather die.
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2009 03:32 PM
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Re: Add to the homeless count >>Nursing homes forcing out residents, elderly are facing eviction
This society needs to change. The problem would not exist if families were closer and elderly parents were kept at home and cared for by the younger family members. Not too much to do for those who cared for us, fed us, clothed us, housed us, when we were to young to care for ourselves.



This is an ideal thought but is not often possible. My husband and I both work and our children are too young to take care of an older person. My mother-in-law would be in danger of hurting hurself or burning down the house if we left her here alone during the day. She has advanced dementia and it is simply not possible to have her living with us.

We looked around and found a lovely assisted living facility in a house in a residential neighborhood. We pay $750/month, which covers everything. There are five other residents in the house and two full-time live-in caregivers. We show up often and at unpredictable times and my mother-in-law is always clean, well fed and well cared for. The ALF is state licensed and the owner has never had any complaints filed against her. They take care of everything. The doctor even comes to the house to see the residents so that they do not have to endure the stress of transportation and crowded waiting rooms.

We are very fortunate to have found this situation, but this should be the norm, not the exception. I cannot fathom why the typical ALF should charge $3,000+ per month and a nursing home $6,000+ per month. Nursing home care is quite substandard to the care my mother-in-law is currently receiving at a fraction of the price.

I think the answer must be that most nursing homes and ALFs are big, bloated, inefficient bureaucracies. I think more small, privately owned assisted living facilities could be a solution to this huge problem.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 609802


Here's a thought, for those losing their home to foreclosure see if you cannot help home someone that needs the care.
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2009 03:40 PM
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Re: Add to the homeless count >>Nursing homes forcing out residents, elderly are facing eviction
This is so sad to be happening to our elderly. I have said before and say again "Keep your faith strong and your families close" the times are coming to really test our endurance towards the changing policies of this new society we live in.
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2009 04:38 PM
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Re: Add to the homeless count >>Nursing homes forcing out residents, elderly are facing eviction
You assholes need to be payed.
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2009 04:39 PM
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Re: Add to the homeless count >>Nursing homes forcing out residents, elderly are facing eviction
man, that is so fubar especially in light of the criminal and farcical bailouts..man..this place has become insanely greedy and heartless(and insane). if i didn't know endgame, i'd be terrified.
PhennommennonnModerator (OP)
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02/07/2009 05:26 PM

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Re: Add to the homeless count >>Nursing homes forcing out residents, elderly are facing eviction
This society needs to change. The problem would not exist if families were closer and elderly parents were kept at home and cared for by the younger family members. Not too much to do for those who cared for us, fed us, clothed us, housed us, when we were to young to care for ourselves.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 609767


thats over simplifying things a bit here. many ppl arent financially stable, nor medically trained, to include emotionally apt to handle caring for someone who is incapacitated.

most families are 2 income - who will be home to do the caring? the kids?

my grandmother had Alzheimer's, she always lived with her kids. when she got bad (violent) my aunt J from NJ couldnt do it anymore, none of the 5 sisters wanted to put nanny in a nursing home. my father the only son, knew they couldnt handle it. nanny ended up going to NC to aunt P's. nanny was uncontrollable. now shes sent back north to pa where my dad and aunt M live. nanny goes to live with aunt M. one night approx 3 weeks after moving in - nanny during the night went to attack her own daughter while she slept. my father pulled an override on his sisters and had nanny in a nursing home within a few days.

in many cases sure - it could work, but an aging elderly parent can prove to be a medical necessity in most cases where these homes can provide such.

for them to 'evict' them is where medicare needs to act.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Queen Of Mean / VENOMmennonn

*Dont fuck with me; ill jump on my menstrual cycle & run your ass over ;)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Every closed eye is not sleeping, and every open eye is not seeing
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe responds NOT to what you want.....it responds to what you are being.......are you being what you want?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the karma cafe has no menus. you get served what you deserve
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

political correctness is a doctrine.... fostered by a delusional, illogical minority...... and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media; which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Visit The Official GLP Store
[link to www.cafepress.com]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Subscribe to TheRawFeedLive On YouTube
[link to youtube.com]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Become a member & subscribe to the GLPVC Podcast
[link to members.therawfeedlive.com]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FREEDOM OF SPEECH:
Alan Isaacman
The People Vs Larry Flynt
"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, you've heard a lot here today and I won't try to go back over it all. But you have to go back in that room and make some decisions and there is one thing I want to make very clear to you before you do. I'm not trying to convince you that you should like what Larry Flynt does. I don't like what he does. But what I do like is... that I live in a country... where you and I can make that decision for ourselves. I like that I live in a country where I can pick up Hustler magazine... read it if I want... or throw it in the trash, if that's where I think it belongs. Or better yet I can express my opinion by not buying it. I like that right. I care about it. And you should care about it, too... because we live in a free country. We say that a lot, but sometimes we forget what that means, so listen again. We live in a free country. That is a powerful idea. That's a magnificent way to live. But there is a price for that freedom, which is that sometimes... we have to tolerate things that we don't necessarily like. So go back in that room... where you are free to think whatever you want to think... about Larry Flynt and Hustler magazine. But then ask yourselves if you want to make that decision for the rest of us... because the freedom that everyone in this room enjoys... is, in a very real way, in your hands. If we start throwing up walls against what some of us think is obscene... we may wake up one morning and realize... that walls have been thrown upin places we never expected... and we can't see anythingor... do anything. And that's not freedom. That is not freedom. So, be careful. Thank you."
VIDEO: [link to youtu.be]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2009 05:27 PM
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Re: Add to the homeless count >>Nursing homes forcing out residents, elderly are facing eviction
Even elderly are facing eviction

Industry representatives deny that "dumping" occurs and say homes are diligent in taking only residents they can care for. They attribute the rise in discharge complaints to a younger, more vocal generation now living in homes.

"This urban myth that people are getting kicked out all the time -- there's no evidence of that," said Gary Weeks, executive director of the Washington Health Care Association, a group of 400 nursing and boarding homes.
 Quoting: Phennommennonn


Always trust an industry representative to tell you the truth. Right?

No urban myth, this. I see many of the discharge letters from facilities in my state. I also get far too many of the frantic phone calls from residents or their family members. "They" say they do not really discharge to the street; interpret that to mean they discharge to a homeless shelter, instead, if a shelter will accept the resident. However, a homeless shelter is not set up for someone with medical issues. All of this is known on all sides. If they wind up in a hospital, then the hospital may well discharge the elder to the sidewalk. Have a nice day....

Transfer of assets. Bottom line. Profit margin. Remember the nursing home industry WILL makes its money. It is not really about humans on that level. God bless the ombudsmen.
Jackinthebox

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02/07/2009 05:31 PM
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Re: Add to the homeless count >>Nursing homes forcing out residents, elderly are facing eviction
This is so fucking messed up.

Starred Phe.
When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, "Come!" I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand.

Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, "A quart of wheat for a day's wages, and three quarts of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!"


-Revelation 6:5, 6:6
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2009 05:37 PM
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Re: Add to the homeless count >>Nursing homes forcing out residents, elderly are facing eviction
This is so fucking messed up.

Starred Phe.
 Quoting: Jackinthebox
it's real messed up, considering all the $$ the gov't steals for theirselves, for their insane luxeries. ya know...
mopar28m
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02/07/2009 05:42 PM

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Re: Add to the homeless count >>Nursing homes forcing out residents, elderly are facing eviction
How many people here have the ability to take in an aging, care-requiring parent?
 Quoting: markusmaximus

My grandfather had a stroke when I was 9. The Dr. told my grandmother that we should put him in a nursing home. She refused, there was NO way we could pay for it. So, between her & I we took care of him for another 4 years until he died of a combination of 4 strokes & 1 heart attack inside of a 24 hour period.

When my grandmother needed to go to a nursing home, I offered her a room in my home. Its the warmest in the winter & the coolest in the summer. She wouldn't move because she didn't want to change Dr.'s.

Our parents/grandparents took care of us when we were young, it is our turn when they need care. Children who send their parents/grandparents to a nursing home are selfish individuals. People who go there are only waiting to die, not to live.
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Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2009 05:48 PM
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Re: Add to the homeless count >>Nursing homes forcing out residents, elderly are facing eviction
This society needs to change. The problem would not exist if families were closer and elderly parents were kept at home and cared for by the younger family members. Not too much to do for those who cared for us, fed us, clothed us, housed us, when we were to young to care for ourselves.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 609767


We have a very sick society that is focused on materialism and consumption, cheerled by the criminal corporate media cartel who shapes the society.
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2009 08:38 PM
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Re: Add to the homeless count >>Nursing homes forcing out residents, elderly are facing eviction
If YOU can't afford 6000 a month to put your dad in a facilty, how is it that the Govt could afford it when the Govt gets all its noney from YOU and EVERYONE has parents... this makes no sense.... and now that ALL investments have failed it is UNSUSTAINABLE... soon millions will be put out!
PhennommennonnModerator (OP)
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02/07/2009 08:42 PM

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Re: Add to the homeless count >>Nursing homes forcing out residents, elderly are facing eviction
If YOU can't afford 6000 a month to put your dad in a facilty, how is it that the Govt could afford it when the Govt gets all its noney from YOU and EVERYONE has parents... this makes no sense.... and now that ALL investments have failed it is UNSUSTAINABLE... soon millions will be put out!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 354026


in all due respect here, this is somehow our fault? we have no choice but to pay taxes - so they collect.

they LOOTED the system, drained it like a stopped up kitchen sink, and ran like pantyhose when they knew we were close to finding out.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Queen Of Mean / VENOMmennonn

*Dont fuck with me; ill jump on my menstrual cycle & run your ass over ;)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Every closed eye is not sleeping, and every open eye is not seeing
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe responds NOT to what you want.....it responds to what you are being.......are you being what you want?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the karma cafe has no menus. you get served what you deserve
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

political correctness is a doctrine.... fostered by a delusional, illogical minority...... and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media; which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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FREEDOM OF SPEECH:
Alan Isaacman
The People Vs Larry Flynt
"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, you've heard a lot here today and I won't try to go back over it all. But you have to go back in that room and make some decisions and there is one thing I want to make very clear to you before you do. I'm not trying to convince you that you should like what Larry Flynt does. I don't like what he does. But what I do like is... that I live in a country... where you and I can make that decision for ourselves. I like that I live in a country where I can pick up Hustler magazine... read it if I want... or throw it in the trash, if that's where I think it belongs. Or better yet I can express my opinion by not buying it. I like that right. I care about it. And you should care about it, too... because we live in a free country. We say that a lot, but sometimes we forget what that means, so listen again. We live in a free country. That is a powerful idea. That's a magnificent way to live. But there is a price for that freedom, which is that sometimes... we have to tolerate things that we don't necessarily like. So go back in that room... where you are free to think whatever you want to think... about Larry Flynt and Hustler magazine. But then ask yourselves if you want to make that decision for the rest of us... because the freedom that everyone in this room enjoys... is, in a very real way, in your hands. If we start throwing up walls against what some of us think is obscene... we may wake up one morning and realize... that walls have been thrown upin places we never expected... and we can't see anythingor... do anything. And that's not freedom. That is not freedom. So, be careful. Thank you."
VIDEO: [link to youtu.be]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 609394
United States
02/07/2009 08:51 PM
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Re: Add to the homeless count >>Nursing homes forcing out residents, elderly are facing eviction
How many people here have the ability to take in an aging, care-requiring parent?

My grandfather had a stroke when I was 9. The Dr. told my grandmother that we should put him in a nursing home. She refused, there was NO way we could pay for it. So, between her & I we took care of him for another 4 years until he died of a combination of 4 strokes & 1 heart attack inside of a 24 hour period.

When my grandmother needed to go to a nursing home, I offered her a room in my home. Its the warmest in the winter & the coolest in the summer. She wouldn't move because she didn't want to change Dr.'s.

Our parents/grandparents took care of us when we were young, it is our turn when they need care. Children who send their parents/grandparents to a nursing home are selfish individuals. People who go there are only waiting to die, not to live.
 Quoting: mopar28m


You are right. You are right. You are right.

Both of my parents were taken care of at home and passed away at home. My child loved his grandma and would spend hours sitting with her, and they would talk. As an adult now, he will spend time talking to the elderly he runs into, listening to their stories, gathering their history. He thinks that young people who just want the old farts to die are really missing the boat. Yes, it was difficult to do; but they were there for me when I needed them. There are services, often covered by Medicare or Medicaid, to help. But what is happening in the elder care industry is often reprehensible and, unfortunately, reflects values within the general society. What one does not value, one will pillage then toss.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 609394
United States
02/07/2009 09:04 PM
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Re: Add to the homeless count >>Nursing homes forcing out residents, elderly are facing eviction
Oh, and if anyone is thinking of keeping their own elders at home, look for a book called "But I Don't Want Elder Care" (I think is the title). I do know it is by a guy named Terry Lynch. Useful book.

Also, be really careful in choosing home health care or respite services. Some are really good and some not so much. Also learn what the elders' Medicare or Medicaid or private insurance will pay for.

If they have to go to a facility, please don't drop them like unwanted laundry. Be there for them. Often and unpredictably, be there. Know who is tending to them and what is being done for and to them.

When I was a teenager, my parents and relatives pulled my grandmother out of a nursing home. She was being beaten (she was bed-ridden from a stroke and couldn't speak sensibly much at all). I thought it was wierd that she was always lying on the same side, even at my age. One visit, she managed to convey to me that she wanted to show me something and kept trying to point to the side of her body that was down. I turned her enough to see some of the damage and screamed. My mother went ballistic. After the police, the complaints and grievances, the denials, and the claims that my grandmother was violent (impossible) and had hurt herself or they had had to subdue her...the nursing home kept chugging along. My grandmother went home with us. And the staff had seemed so sweet all along.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 609394
United States
02/07/2009 09:04 PM
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Re: Add to the homeless count >>Nursing homes forcing out residents, elderly are facing eviction
Oh, and if anyone is thinking of keeping their own elders at home, look for a book called "But I Don't Want Elder Care" (I think is the title). I do know it is by a guy named Terry Lynch. Useful book.

Also, be really careful in choosing home health care or respite services. Some are really good and some not so much. Also learn what the elders' Medicare or Medicaid or private insurance will pay for.

If they have to go to a facility, please don't drop them like unwanted laundry. Be there for them. Often and unpredictably, be there. Know who is tending to them and what is being done for and to them.

When I was a teenager, my parents and relatives pulled my grandmother out of a nursing home. She was being beaten (she was bed-ridden from a stroke and couldn't speak sensibly much at all). I thought it was wierd that she was always lying on the same side, even at my age. One visit, she managed to convey to me that she wanted to show me something and kept trying to point to the side of her body that was down. I turned her enough to see some of the damage and screamed. My mother went ballistic. After the police, the complaints and grievances, the denials, and the claims that my grandmother was violent (impossible) and had hurt herself or they had had to subdue her...the nursing home kept chugging along. My grandmother went home with us. And the staff had seemed so sweet all along.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 609394
United States
02/07/2009 09:04 PM
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Re: Add to the homeless count >>Nursing homes forcing out residents, elderly are facing eviction
Oh, and if anyone is thinking of keeping their own elders at home, look for a book called "But I Don't Want Elder Care" (I think is the title). I do know it is by a guy named Terry Lynch. Useful book.

Also, be really careful in choosing home health care or respite services. Some are really good and some not so much. Also learn what the elders' Medicare or Medicaid or private insurance will pay for.

If they have to go to a facility, please don't drop them like unwanted laundry. Be there for them. Often and unpredictably, be there. Know who is tending to them and what is being done for and to them.

When I was a teenager, my parents and relatives pulled my grandmother out of a nursing home. She was being beaten (she was bed-ridden from a stroke and couldn't speak sensibly much at all). I thought it was wierd that she was always lying on the same side, even at my age. One visit, she managed to convey to me that she wanted to show me something and kept trying to point to the side of her body that was down. I turned her enough to see some of the damage and screamed. My mother went ballistic. After the police, the complaints and grievances, the denials, and the claims that my grandmother was violent (impossible) and had hurt herself or they had had to subdue her...the nursing home kept chugging along. My grandmother went home with us. And the staff had seemed so sweet all along.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 609434
United States
02/07/2009 09:22 PM
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Re: Add to the homeless count >>Nursing homes forcing out residents, elderly are facing eviction
2000 a month ? 5000 a month ? damn warehousing the elderly and paying caregivers shit pay is extremely lucrative. O well the collapse of the factional banking system and fossil fuel crisis will solve this. back to the good old days when there were 35 workers for every retired person.
anonanon

User ID: 254206
United States
02/07/2009 11:18 PM
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Re: Add to the homeless count >>Nursing homes forcing out residents, elderly are facing eviction
I think, legally, a nursing home has to find somewhere else for the person to go if they evict them for any reason.

I don't think they can just abandon them on the streets, but I could be wrong on that.

I like the group home concept with a caretaker and visiting medical staff. That seems cost effective and is probably a lot better for most elderly people who need to be in an assisted living type arrangement.

However, for those in need of medical care or who are fully bedridden, a nursing home seems to be the only option available. It is not a good option, but right now it is all we have.

I hope that we start having more choices for later in life. Most families cannot care for someone who is in need of constant care. Insurance doesn't cover things like daily nursing care to give them some relief or time to go to work. And what care there is from home-health care workers is expensive. I know someone that was paying over 800 dollars a week for a live-in arrangement with different days and times off. That can add up quickly.

And the nursing home insurance policies are difficult to work with, go out of business, and just like the health insurance find all sorts of reasons why they won't pay up.
PhennommennonnModerator (OP)
Senior Forum Moderator

User ID: 581503
United States
02/07/2009 11:44 PM

Report Abusive Post
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Re: Add to the homeless count >>Nursing homes forcing out residents, elderly are facing eviction
I think, legally, a nursing home has to find somewhere else for the person to go if they evict them for any reason.

I don't think they can just abandon them on the streets, but I could be wrong on that.

I like the group home concept with a caretaker and visiting medical staff. That seems cost effective and is probably a lot better for most elderly people who need to be in an assisted living type arrangement.

However, for those in need of medical care or who are fully bedridden, a nursing home seems to be the only option available. It is not a good option, but right now it is all we have.

I hope that we start having more choices for later in life. Most families cannot care for someone who is in need of constant care. Insurance doesn't cover things like daily nursing care to give them some relief or time to go to work. And what care there is from home-health care workers is expensive. I know someone that was paying over 800 dollars a week for a live-in arrangement with different days and times off. That can add up quickly.

And the nursing home insurance policies are difficult to work with, go out of business, and just like the health insurance find all sorts of reasons why they won't pay up.
 Quoting: anonanon


hey dont bet on it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Queen Of Mean / VENOMmennonn

*Dont fuck with me; ill jump on my menstrual cycle & run your ass over ;)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Every closed eye is not sleeping, and every open eye is not seeing
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe responds NOT to what you want.....it responds to what you are being.......are you being what you want?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the karma cafe has no menus. you get served what you deserve
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

political correctness is a doctrine.... fostered by a delusional, illogical minority...... and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media; which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Visit The Official GLP Store
[link to www.cafepress.com]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Subscribe to TheRawFeedLive On YouTube
[link to youtube.com]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Become a member & subscribe to the GLPVC Podcast
[link to members.therawfeedlive.com]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FREEDOM OF SPEECH:
Alan Isaacman
The People Vs Larry Flynt
"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, you've heard a lot here today and I won't try to go back over it all. But you have to go back in that room and make some decisions and there is one thing I want to make very clear to you before you do. I'm not trying to convince you that you should like what Larry Flynt does. I don't like what he does. But what I do like is... that I live in a country... where you and I can make that decision for ourselves. I like that I live in a country where I can pick up Hustler magazine... read it if I want... or throw it in the trash, if that's where I think it belongs. Or better yet I can express my opinion by not buying it. I like that right. I care about it. And you should care about it, too... because we live in a free country. We say that a lot, but sometimes we forget what that means, so listen again. We live in a free country. That is a powerful idea. That's a magnificent way to live. But there is a price for that freedom, which is that sometimes... we have to tolerate things that we don't necessarily like. So go back in that room... where you are free to think whatever you want to think... about Larry Flynt and Hustler magazine. But then ask yourselves if you want to make that decision for the rest of us... because the freedom that everyone in this room enjoys... is, in a very real way, in your hands. If we start throwing up walls against what some of us think is obscene... we may wake up one morning and realize... that walls have been thrown upin places we never expected... and we can't see anythingor... do anything. And that's not freedom. That is not freedom. So, be careful. Thank you."
VIDEO: [link to youtu.be]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 400833
United States
02/08/2009 12:00 AM
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Re: Add to the homeless count >>Nursing homes forcing out residents, elderly are facing eviction
At age 96 my mother put my grandmother in a nursing home. I went to visit her and this immaculately groomed woman smelled of urine and had dirty fingernails! I pulled grandma out immediately and moved her to my home. It took caregivers round the clock, visiting nurses, a doc who made house calls and grandma spent her last yet of life with those who dearly loved her. My daughter (her great grand daughter) would sit on the bed and look at grandma's clothing and jewels and handbags. Now she's 22 and in fashion design with Ralph Lauren in NYC. The "what is and is not tasteful" that Great Grandma taught her when she was 3 and 4 has stuck with her, inspired her to follow that course for her education and she is now telling the women and men of this nation what is and is not tasteful... according to her great grandmother! The outfits she's designed based on grandma's wardrobe now sell like hotcakes and my kid got a bonus check for over $250k last year from Mr. Lauren himself to thank her for her inspired designs that made the company a whole lot of money! Little does he know it came from those hours with her great grandmother all those years ago.

Taking care of her was the greatest and most difficult thing I've ever done. If you have the chance to provide for the last years of a relative or friend who's nearing the end of their days - change what you must but do it if you possibly can. It will enrich your life in ways you'd never dream possible.



How many people here have the ability to take in an aging, care-requiring parent?
 Quoting: markusmaximus
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 610234
United States
02/08/2009 04:48 AM
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Re: Add to the homeless count >>Nursing homes forcing out residents, elderly are facing eviction
If medicaid has to pay 6000/month for every God damned old bastard, how long can the system stay afloat? Realistically, it is best to euthanise these old useless eaters.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 550942
United States
02/08/2009 04:59 AM
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Re: Add to the homeless count >>Nursing homes forcing out residents, elderly are facing eviction
This society needs to change. The problem would not exist if families were closer and elderly parents were kept at home and cared for by the younger family members. Not too much to do for those who cared for us, fed us, clothed us, housed us, when we were to young to care for ourselves.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 609767


Ever cared for a dementia patient? You have no fucking clue as to what you are talking about.

I nearly had a nervoud breakdown from lack of sleep and working 12 hour shifts, and then taking care of my mother in law who had dementia, was often violent and constantly shit and pissed everywhere except where she was supposed to.

Know what it is like to do 3 loads of laundry every fucking day? Know what it is like to clean shit up off the kithcen floor, or change a shitty adult diaper? Know what it is like to do this for 5 years?

I didnt think so, so take your little utopian dream and shove it up your asshole.
JudgementComes
User ID: 610242
Australia
02/08/2009 05:12 AM
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Re: Add to the homeless count >>Nursing homes forcing out residents, elderly are facing eviction
If medicaid has to pay 6000/month for every God damned old bastard, how long can the system stay afloat? Realistically, it is best to euthanise these old useless eaters.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 610234

Your Destiny is assured,Godless one!

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