Omega, I think your 4064 load is a bit on the light side. 42-42.5 gr w/168 matchking and lg rifle primer in a commercial ctg case is kind of middle velocity and a Sierra accuracy load. If you are using military brass it is probably right in there, though.
Great links and overview, ET; just a super job.
Too bad nobody ever really did a Survival Reloading book or website. Guess the component mfrs have enough trouble with people blowing up firearms and making dumb mistakes. Yet, magnum primers should be usable in regular cases and loads if a bit of adjustment is used.
Maybe we will all be pulling bullets from found ammunition to check for spiked rounds or to salvage powder and primers?
To hear some tell it, things will be back to normal in ammunition and component supply any day now. I doubt that will ever happen.
In 8th grade, I put a primer into my knuckle using a Lee Loader. Had a gangrene infection for a while. Priming residue is dirty shit. I got a 310 tool after that. Still have all of them. Great little tools if you have lots of the lyman decapping pins. I always break them. I like the Lee hand press, but it always pinches me, another great backpacker tool.
I am not much on "load experimentation". The Sierra manual is really the best one going for basic rifle ctgs, but why those guys won't cover the Ackley Improved and other wildcats is probably just because they are stuck in their ways. My only 168 matchking load came out of the Sierra book and all I did was seat the bullet as far out as I could so it would still feed through my M14 magazines. 5 shot groups from a bench at 100yds under .35" consistently, and under .7" at 200yds with a 6x scope was simply amazing. That is the IMR 4064 load mentioned above.
I tend to not buy factory rifle ammunition. I would rather load my own. I used to crimp my bullets for rifle loads. Now I use a neck bushing die and just seat them tight, even for magnum rifle rounds. Still use a roll crimp for magnum handgun.
more later...
Evil Twin Senior Forum Moderator 2/10/2009 9:43 PM
Off to the garage for me... To visualize the coming apocalypse, imagine, if you will, Oprah & Rosie O'Donnell wrestling for the last rib at an all-you can-eat Bar-B-Q...
Anonymous Coward User ID: 612182 2/10/2009 11:09 PM
I have a MEC 600jr in 20 & 12ga. Never use them. Have about 50lbs of shot in various sizes. Couple thousand shotgun primers. Did have the 12ga setup about 20yrs ago, makes nice shells. Funny, I still pickup high-brass hulls if I see them laying around. Until recently, it has just been too cheap to buy the 4pk field loads at wally's.
Don't really have a role for shotguns in our survival shooting. Doubt we will be out doing any sport shooting. I about choked on my coffee when I saw the line above, about doves, "...save the legs for soup". What legs? But damn, they are good. Around here, we have grouse. Really good. At their best when shot in the head with a .22LR.
Had 2 moose in the yard yesterday. God will keep us nourished is how I always interpret seeing moose in the yard.
I know some people favor shotgun w/slugs for bear. We have lost of slug loads.
Saw another thread today on Doomsday Reloading. Kurt Saxon has included some interesting stuff in his Poor Man's James Bond series. Improvised weaponry. Includes Clyde Baker's book on gunsmithing and maybe some formulas for making gunpowder. Seems I have read that primers can be recycled by removing the anvil, tapping out the firing pin dent, placing head of strike anywhere match in the cup, and replacing the anvil. Saw somewhere that you can take the SA Match's fulminate of mercury compound and dissolve it into a paste then use the paste in the primer cup also.
Having a selection of loading manuals is a great resource, lots of data to interpret and apply to what components you have on hand. If all you got is what you got, you need to study up on the best recipe/loads you can determine. The more data, the better. You can always call the technical service dept of the bullet companies or powder manufacturers. They will do their best to help you out.
What gear helps make the best handloads?
Lee Auto-Prime is an excellent priming tool and cheap if you don't have to buy lots of shellholders. The Hornady tool is very good too, but if you have lots of shellholders to buy, costs may all even out. If you like having one set of shellholders for press use and one for priming tool; like I do, get the Lee.
Check-weight set to be sure your scale is calibrated, not just zeroed. Gonna load a maximum powder charge? Calibrate your scale to zero on almost the exact weight in your pan. No guessing or hoping here. Need 73.7gr to zero? A deluxe check set might let you dial it in exactly or at least get 72.5gr which is close enough. Be sure your scale is accurate, get the check-weight set.
RCBS Precision Mic. Want to know what your chamber measures? This tool lets you gauge cases before you fire them and after so you can set up your die to resize exactly what you need. With an automatic or other non-bolt gun, you want a bit more tolerance, a bit more reduction than you will need with a bolt gun. The bolt does cam brass into the chamber if minimally resized. Won't happen with other rifles. I like at least .005 under minimum saami chamber spec if I am loading for a variety of autos and who knows which one will get which round. If you only have one gun chambered for that ctg, then work it on the tight side. It is a bummer to have to resize loaded rounds. Can be done, can be done safely, but a tense hassle. Stick a live ctg in your sizing die and then what do you do???/
PAM, the best spray sizing lube I've found. The cheap wally world stuff is fine.
Redding bushing sizer dies. I like the FL ones rather than neck sizers. I want all my rounds to feed no matter what and am not loading to shoot groups from a bench. Nice to have some variety in sizes to choose from. I want a tight neck sized case because I won't crimp, usually don't use a canelure on a rifle bullet. Usually seat the bullet below the canelure anyway.
Forster Competition Mic seater dies. Just THE BEST. Better than Redding. Way cheaper. Forster will sell you different case bodies for $20ea so you can use one mic seating die for a variety of ctgs. Forster has 3 sizes, sm, reg, and magnum. They will even do custom wildcat case bodies for you for reasonable cost. Redding will not sell you parts, gotta pony up $80 for each ctg you want their die for.
Hornady decap spindle carbide assy. This is a RCBS type rod with a carbide neck sizing button. I've used these with RCBS SB and Comp die sets, when I owned them. About $30, maybe worth it to you if you want to keep your case necks concentric. Another solution to the problems that pulling the rod back out through the neck can produce is to polish the expander ball on your decap assy with rouge or a craytex dremel tip. You want the smoothest surface possible especially coming out of the case neck.. Carbide or polished steel.
Loading for accuracy? You probably want the Lyman 20deg chamfering tool to bevel the inside edge of your ctg case necks.
Lots of benchrest tips to make the best, most consistent ammunition. Sinclair Intl has/had a book on techniques for precision reloading. Well worth the $10 for it. Get their catalog, and maybe Precision Shooting's Benchrest Primer.
Evil Twin Senior Forum Moderator 2/11/2009 12:39 PM
I will have to try the PAM spray. I have been using wire pulling lube, because I have buckets full of the stuff, but a spray on lube would be much less messy. To visualize the coming apocalypse, imagine, if you will, Oprah & Rosie O'Donnell wrestling for the last rib at an all-you can-eat Bar-B-Q...
Handloading to save money? Cast your own bullets!
I like wheelweight alloy for hardness. I cast bullets from an open pot, a cheap 4qt dutch oven that I heat over a Cajun Cooker. Pretty easy to cast a couple hundred bullets an hour. I keep a bucket of water, with a sponge at the bottom and drop the bullets into the bucket to cool once the mold heats up just right and the bullets are casting without wrinkles.
When I tested my .454 Casull bullets, I found my cast jobs deformed way less than the Hornady XTP Mag bullets I had been using. Real scientific stuff; I put em on an anvil and smashed bullets with a machinist's hammer. My cast bullets deformed less. To test penetration, I sawed a slab of cottonwood timber about 3' long and 10" in diameter and shot the 345gr Casull load into the slab. Penetrated 27" and the bullet was not deformed significantly.
How much velocity do you need to kill something, or put a hole in it? In 1894, the .30-30win was the first smokeless sporting round. Maybe the 7mm mauser came first, but the .30-30 was the first American Highpower rifle. About 2400fps with a 170gr bullet.
If you shoot cast bullets, you will save money on powder and bullets. A .44mag loaded to about 950fps with a 245-270gr cast bullet is cheap to load; at 10gr of UNQ for a powder charge you get about 700rds per lb of powder. A 250gr bullet at 1000fps is going to kill anything it hits, except maybe African dangerous game that isn't soft-skinned.
Rifles likewise can benefit from cast bullets. Got a big-ass Marlin 1895? You probably cast your own alredy. But a .30-06 or even a highpower .22 centerfire can benefit from cast bullets. Cost a couple cents per bullet, plus your time; but you will have lots of that! Uses mild powder load so your barrel is hardly worn after shooting thousands of rounds. If a .357mag is a fire-breathing dragon at 1400fps, how about a 180gr .308 bullet at 1800-2000fps?
Or maybe you just load a round ball with a primer to take rodents in your barn or garage? A big-ass .430 (.44cal) round ball at 600fps is like shooting a .22LR, think a 200gr roundball won't kill small game? It sure will if you aren't flinching and can place your shot with precision.
There is a lot of survivalist potential in handloading w/cast bullets. The LymanCast Bullet Handbook is a great resource to own if you want the full story.
Evil Twin Senior Forum Moderator 2/11/2009 6:44 PM
Or maybe you just load a round ball with a primer to take rodents in your barn or garage? A big-ass .430 (.44cal) round ball at 600fps is like shooting a .22LR, think a 200gr roundball won't kill small game? It sure will if you aren't flinching and can place your shot with precision.
Quoting: Lester
I've been thinking about trying this lately. I have a question though. Do you find that you need to drill out the flash hole to a larger size to keep the primer from backing out and binding the cylinder? To visualize the coming apocalypse, imagine, if you will, Oprah & Rosie O'Donnell wrestling for the last rib at an all-you can-eat Bar-B-Q...
Evil Twin Senior Forum Moderator 2/12/2009 9:19 PM
Looks like the EPA wants to take away our free/cheap bullet casting materials.
National Lead Free Wheel Weight Initiative
[link to www.epa.gov] To visualize the coming apocalypse, imagine, if you will, Oprah & Rosie O'Donnell wrestling for the last rib at an all-you can-eat Bar-B-Q...
I know I'm behind the power curve on this one, but I'm getting ready to jump into reloading very soon. I'm researching my options now, and want to begin building my setup in about a week or so.
My problem is one of mobility. My job makes me portable & mobile, and everything I do must be the same. I need a beginners' portable reloading setup. Based on the advice I've read here so far, I think the Lee Hand Press will be ideal for pistol & rifle cartridges. However, I need shotgun too. Any portable reloaders for shotgun shells? I assume the dies for Lee Hand Loaders will work in all Lee products? Will they work in other manufacturer's presses? Which is better, the Lee Hand Press, or the Lyman 310 Tool? Can you get any common die for the Lyman?
I looked at the Classic Lee Loader. It's the most portable kit, but it includes neck sizers only, and I'm such a generalist that I need full case sizing. Can I simply buy a case sizing die to add to this kit? How many people have problems with the primers going off when seating them with a mallet? I like Lee products in general. Are there any Lee products that are not recommended? How does the Lee Auto Prime compare with, say Hornady's hand held priming tool? Is the Lee Load All II shotgun press any good?
So Unique powder is multi-purpose useful for a wide range of loading? Is it the most versatile powder on the market? Shotgun & pistol? Any cross-over rifle powders?
Anyone reloading 7.62x39 steel-cased Berden-primed cases? Is it worth the hassle? Do some people drill out the primer flash holes for use with Boxer primers? Will Boxer primers fit Berden primer pockets?
What's the best bullet puller? What's the best no-power-tool case trimmer? What's the best mechanical powder scale? Can you safely de-prime a primed case? Can you ID smokless powder just by looking at it in raw form? Can you ID whether a powder is for pistol, shotgun or rifle just by looking at it?
I also want to get into bullet-casting. Who makes small bullet molds like the .223?
Do you really have to always clean the cases if you have carbide sizers? I don't like shiny.
Peace.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 613975 2/13/2009 2:25 AM
I know I'm behind the power curve on this one, but I'm getting ready to jump into reloading very soon. I'm researching my options now, and want to begin building my setup in about a week or so.
My problem is one of mobility. My job makes me portable & mobile, and everything I do must be the same. I need a beginners' portable reloading setup. Based on the advice I've read here so far, I think the Lee Hand Press will be ideal for pistol & rifle cartridges. However, I need shotgun too. Any portable reloaders for shotgun shells? I assume the dies for Lee Hand Loaders will work in all Lee products? Will they work in other manufacturer's presses? Which is better, the Lee Hand Press, or the Lyman 310 Tool? Can you get any common die for the Lyman?
Quoting: Got Questions? 577878
The Lee hand press is your best choice for portable reloading. The dies are standard and will work in virtually any press. I've never seen a hand type loader for shotgun shells, though you could find the smallest bench mounted hell press, bolt it to a small piece of 2x6, and use a couple C-clamps to clamp the board to a table when you wanted to use it.
I looked at the Classic Lee Loader. It's the most portable kit, but it includes neck sizers only, and I'm such a generalist that I need full case sizing. Can I simply buy a case sizing die to add to this kit? How many people have problems with the primers going off when seating them with a mallet? I like Lee products in general. Are there any Lee products that are not recommended? How does the Lee Auto Prime compare with, say Hornady's hand held priming tool?
Quoting: Got Questions? 577878
The Classic Lee Loader is only capable of neck sizing, as the entire tool body is the die. I have never used one myself, but I hear there's a bit of finesse learned after detonating a few primers while seating them with a hammer.
I have primed thousands and thouands of cases with my Lee Auto Prime with no problems.
Is the Lee Load All II shotgun press any good?
So Unique powder is multi-purpose useful for a wide range of loading? Is it the most versatile powder on the market? Shotgun & pistol? Any cross-over rifle powders?
Quoting: Got Questions? 577878
Unique is probably the most versatile powder, good for almost any handgun round up to .44 Magnum, ome shotgun load, and cast bullet rifle loads. Bullseye, Red Dot, and Clays are also very versatile.
Varget and Reloader 15 are probably the most versatile rifle powders up to about 30.06. For the big magnum rifles you'll need a slower powder.
Anyone reloading 7.62x39 steel-cased Berden-primed cases? Is it worth the hassle? Do some people drill out the primer flash holes for use with Boxer primers? Will Boxer primers fit Berden primer pockets?
Quoting: Got Questions? 577878
It's a pain in the ass, but doable, and you'd want carbide dies for the steel cases. Here's a tutorial...
[link to users.ameritech.net]
What's the best bullet puller? What's the best no-power-tool case trimmer? What's the best mechanical powder scale? Can you safely de-prime a primed case? Can you ID smokless powder just by looking at it in raw form? Can you ID whether a powder is for pistol, shotgun or rifle just by looking at it?
I wouldn't risk using any powder I wasn't 100% certain about regarding type and origin. Just too risky.
I also want to get into bullet-casting. Who makes small bullet molds like the .223?
Quoting: Got Questions? 577878
Lyman, RCBS, and Saeco all make .22 cal molds. I don't believe Lee makes any smaller than 7mm.
Do you really have to always clean the cases if you have carbide sizers? I don't like shiny.
Quoting: Got Questions? 577878
No, just wipe the grit off the outside, blow out the inside.
I soak mine overnight in a soap, vinegar, and water solution, rinse, then blow off with compressed air. They don't come out shiny unless I polish them.
Evil Twin Senior Forum Moderator 2/13/2009 2:28 AM
Oops, timed out, reply above was mine. To visualize the coming apocalypse, imagine, if you will, Oprah & Rosie O'Donnell wrestling for the last rib at an all-you can-eat Bar-B-Q...
Last night, I was bored and decided to experiment. I used my .357 mold to make bullets out of hot glue. I loaded them in some empty cases with a standard small pistol primer and fired.
The primers backed out and jammed up my revolver. So. I drilled out the flash holes on a couple cases to 1/8" and tried again.
They worked flawlessly! I shot 10 rounds into a cardboard box.
They shot about 1" low at 5 paces, but dead on for windage.
Best part is, the "bullet" didn't deform at all, and are reusable. I loaded and fired one of them 4 times. To visualize the coming apocalypse, imagine, if you will, Oprah & Rosie O'Donnell wrestling for the last rib at an all-you can-eat Bar-B-Q...
Anonymous Coward User ID: 515108 2/13/2009 4:38 PM
[link to www.youtube.com] To visualize the coming apocalypse, imagine, if you will, Oprah & Rosie O'Donnell wrestling for the last rib at an all-you can-eat Bar-B-Q...
Evil Twin Senior Forum Moderator 4/24/2009 11:43 PM
Shooting black powder loads with a modern 12 gauge.
[link to www.youtube.com] To visualize the coming apocalypse, imagine, if you will, Oprah & Rosie O'Donnell wrestling for the last rib at an all-you can-eat Bar-B-Q...
nice videos! I've got a Lee field kit in all my calibers...
need to get one of those hand rezer's and primer seaters. Doesn't RCPS make one that resizes and sets the primers>>? or is it just primer seating only>?
Last Edited by Enigma on 4/26/2009 at 10:30 PM "knowing and not DOING, is like NOT KNOWING at all"
Evil Twin Senior Forum Moderator 7/29/2009 4:21 PM
www.xtremebullets.com To visualize the coming apocalypse, imagine, if you will, Oprah & Rosie O'Donnell wrestling for the last rib at an all-you can-eat Bar-B-Q...
Disclaimer: This website exists for entertainment purposes only. The reader is responsible for discerning the validity, factuality
or implications of information posted here, be it fictional or based on real events. Moderators on this forum make every
effort to review the material posted on this site however, it is not realistically possible for our small staff to manually
review each and every one of the more than 10,000 posts GodlikeProductions gets on a daily basis.
The content of post
on this site, including but not limited to links to other web sites, are the expressed opinion of the original poster and are in
no way representative of or endorsed by the owners or administration of this website. The posts on this website are the opinion of
the specific author and are not statements of advice, opinion, or factual information on behalf of the owner or
administration of GodlikeProductions.
This site may contain adult content and if you feel you might be offended by such content, you should log off immediately.
Not all posts on this website are intended as truthful or factual assertion by their authors. Some users of this website are participating in internet role playing, with or without the use of an avatar. NO post on this website should be considered factual information on face value alone. Users are encouraged to USE DISCERNMENT and do their own follow up research while reading and posting on this website. Godlikeproductions.com reserves the right to make changes to, corrections and/or remove entirely at any time posts made on this website without notice. In addition, Godlikeproductions.com disclaims any and all liability for damages incurred directly or indirectly as a result of a post on this website.
This site is provided "as is" without warranty of any kind, either expressed or implied. You should not assume that this site is error-free or that it will be suitable for the particular purpose which you have in mind when using it. In no event shall Godlikeproductions.com be liable for any special, incidental, indirect or consequential damages of any kind, or any damages whatsoever, including, without limitation, those resulting from loss of use, data or profits, whether or not advised of the possibility of damage, and on any theory of liability, arising out of or in connection with the use or performance of this site or other documents which are referenced by or linked to this site.
Some events depicted in certain posting and threads on this website may be fictitious and any similarity to any person living or dead is merely coincidental. Some other articles may be based on actual events but which in certain cases incidents, characters and timelines have been changed for dramatic purposes. Certain characters may be composites, or entirely fictitious.
We do not discriminate against the mentally ill!
Fair Use Notice: This site may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. Users may make such material available in an effort to advance awareness and understanding of issues relating to civil rights, economics, individual rights, international affairs, liberty, science & technology, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C.Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information please visit: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
Please be aware any communications sent complaining about a post on this website may be posted publicly at the discretion of the administration.
This Disclaimer is subject to change at anytime.
Mail Webmaster with questions or comments about this site.
