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Communicating after EMP attack, Solar Flare/Storm, Magnetic Pole Shift

 
<<LOOK`n thru YOU>>

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06/24/2010 01:35 PM
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Re: Communicating after EMP attack, Solar Flare/Storm, Magnetic Pole Shift
It's awesome that a gathering of peeps from all over can discuss the practical aspects of surviving and maybe even thriving in a "post electric" society. Just as important are the OTHER aspects. IF or WHEN TSHF, we need to maintain our humanity. That which separates us from the lower animals. I suspect THAT struggle will be the hardest of them all.

Personally, that is the one aspect of 'survival' that I struggle with daily. Who to help? When to help? Can there be help at all? When does protecting "me and mine" create a scenario where I have to become the very thing I am struggling against?

Evil has many forms, and resides within us. Many times, just under the surface. Most of us are aware of our negative tendencies or aspects. I humbly suggest that just as important as our worldly preparations may be, we all need to get into ourselves and figure out just what we are capable of...where the humanity ends and the animal begins...and prepare for that eventuality, too.

Sorry if that seems a little preachy or "weird". If society comes tumbling down, these are very real things we will have to face. An example from the movie "The Road", where Charlize Therone, suffering from post partum depression that she can't shake, leaves her husband and child and walks into the freezing wilderness to die. Suicide. A very possible reality.

If we as a race are to survive this "trial by fire" that may or may not occur, we need to be prepared to take a really close look at what makes us HUMAN and not lose that fire.

Soap box...done. carry on!
 Quoting: NevynShyne


rockon

Last Edited by <<LOOK`n thru YOU>> on 06/24/2010 01:36 PM
Anonymous Coward
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06/24/2010 01:51 PM
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Re: Communicating after EMP attack, Solar Flare/Storm, Magnetic Pole Shift
Buy a ham radio and build a Faraday cage and bury it in the ground along with a car battery and an alternator and a solar panel. Issue solved.



this will not work if EMP is sustained for long periods of time.

Nothing will work.


"The EMP, or Electromagnetic pulse, is a rapid magnetic fluctuation which induces a pulse of current in unshielded electronics."

EMPs are not sustained events. They are very quick, and that's why they are so damaging - conventional surge protector devices do not have time to act.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1012845


He was referencing to a sustained solar event...
Eight Squared
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06/24/2010 01:52 PM
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Re: Communicating after EMP attack, Solar Flare/Storm, Magnetic Pole Shift
The real fortunate are those farmers that have the old fashion diesel engine tractors with the mechanical pump fuel injectors, those engines are totally mechanical, no electronics other than a a optional electric starter. Impervious to EMP.


just how destructive would a real EMP be ? Would an older
pre-electronic ignition be effected ?

going backwards, what about an older "kick start" motorcycle ?
 Quoting: DanG 878191


Unknown, semiconductors or solid state, fried. Vacuum tube technology, survivable. Now you are talking motorcycles, I think magneto ignition systems might work. The problem with EMP, it attacks the lowest common denominator, the weakest link, poof! Keep critical components in a safe area.

Its also possible the foe might initiate multiple EMP events. Oh, the storm is over, you come out of your shelter, then poof, your precious survivor equipment avoided the first event and now you are toast.
Anonymous Coward
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06/24/2010 01:54 PM
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Re: Communicating after EMP attack, Solar Flare/Storm, Magnetic Pole Shift
Some of my family only live 1 hour away, but contacting them would be extremely difficult without a car to travel, and phones not working.
 Quoting: Sickscent

I really wonder how the people like 100 or 200 years ago lived ... did they had alien help ... how did they master life .... unbelievable !!! putin Cool down OP, all will be fine.
Eight Squared
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06/24/2010 01:59 PM
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Re: Communicating after EMP attack, Solar Flare/Storm, Magnetic Pole Shift
Fiber optic cables are immune to EMP/solar flare......


Now that is interesting.



That is true...but the electronics that create the laser, modulate the beam, carry the data, etc, are not. Good try.


Its unfortunate, each generation's general knowledge decreases and some point in the future, to explain optical fiber would result in a blank stare. The language tools available or lexicon wouldn't be available to explain the concept. Many science topics are like this today and compete with breasts and sports.

True fiber is impervious, but who is going to be around to pull the transducer rack, replace the laser, and somebody at the other end to acknowledge signal. That diagnostic procedure depends on the very technology that was just fried. There are no procedures for redundant diagnostics and repair.

Radio, Morse Code, mirrors reflecting sunlight, and carrier pigeons will be the high tech of the post EMP day.


Well stated, it appears you have somewhat better than an eighth grade education in addition to practical experience.

Good luck to you after the shitstorm
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 982167

Thank you for your kind comment, I have to thank the USAF, I had good instructors back in the day. But do to health issues and certain implants I have, a EMP would be a fatal event for me.
Anonymous Coward
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06/24/2010 02:01 PM
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Re: Communicating after EMP attack, Solar Flare/Storm, Magnetic Pole Shift
Another plan I came up with is.If the power is still on. Swap TV remotes with your neighbors. Develop a code book of what different channels mean etc.Get the idea???


Are you a Republican?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 577634



LIBERAL PUSSY
Anonymous Coward
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06/24/2010 02:18 PM
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Re: Communicating after EMP attack, Solar Flare/Storm, Magnetic Pole Shift
Keep 1 UHF radio and 1 CB radio inside a unused microwave oven or as many radios as you can fit. The hull of the microwave over serves as a poor mans Faraday cage.



Very useful information, the entire post. Thank you.


You are welcome, USAF taught me well back in those cold war days.
 Quoting: Eight Squared 1009134


I'm not sure this is right, microwaves protect against microwaves surprisingly.

A nuke emits what ? I read it can send all wavelengths.

The sun emits what ?
Eight Squared
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06/24/2010 02:53 PM
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Re: Communicating after EMP attack, Solar Flare/Storm, Magnetic Pole Shift
Keep 1 UHF radio and 1 CB radio inside a unused microwave oven or as many radios as you can fit. The hull of the microwave over serves as a poor mans Faraday cage.



Very useful information, the entire post. Thank you.


You are welcome, USAF taught me well back in those cold war days.


I'm not sure this is right, microwaves protect against microwaves surprisingly.

A nuke emits what ? I read it can send all wavelengths.

The sun emits what ?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1013336

<<LOOK`n thru YOU>>

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06/24/2010 03:06 PM
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Re: Communicating after EMP attack, Solar Flare/Storm, Magnetic Pole Shift
Some of my family only live 1 hour away, but contacting them would be extremely difficult without a car to travel, and phones not working.

I really wonder how the people like 100 or 200 years ago lived ... did they had alien help ... how did they master life .... unbelievable !!! putin Cool down OP, all will be fine.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1014323



Blood sweat and tears is how they did it. They worked for a living...working was living...They relied on God not aliens
Anonymous Coward
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06/24/2010 03:11 PM
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Re: Communicating after EMP attack, Solar Flare/Storm, Magnetic Pole Shift
If the power is out. Use a laser pointer. Develop with a neighbor a code book of your own mores code. Develop an exact location where to beam the light into their home. Like that one???
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 575340



This post wins the thread.




In second place:
The pony express - I can see that up & running fast while all the geeks try to connect fiperoptic cables to vacuume tubes :)


Many great ideas tie for third.
Anonymous Coward
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06/24/2010 04:43 PM
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Re: Communicating after EMP attack, Solar Flare/Storm, Magnetic Pole Shift
from my memory...

with the solar dynamics observatory on station plus others from usa/russia/china the detection of emp threat is go

15 mininutes the time allowed to shut down the grids and avoid damage

shutdown time range 5 hours to three days

most probable time 36 hours

maintaining order within powerless societies is the potential threat
 Quoting: aether 1013567


OK, so what you are saying is this. SDO and others detect emp threat incoming from sun. At that point it is only 15 minutes to impact!?

But shutdown of grid systems takes 5 hours to 3 days. So, there is no way to shutdown grid in time no matter the advance warning from available resources...

Maintaining order...of course thats the biggest threat! No communications for first responders...no GPS for guidance...

...leaves military...does military have the proper resources for communication after such an event?
Anonymous Coward
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06/24/2010 04:46 PM
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Re: Communicating after EMP attack, Solar Flare/Storm, Magnetic Pole Shift
So, has anyone made plans in case electronic communications are lost? I was just thinking of the difficulty of reaching family and friends in the case of an EMP attack, solar flare/storm knocking out satellites, magnetic pole shift, etc.

Some of my family only live 1 hour away, but contacting them would be extremely difficult without a car to travel, and phones not working.

I highly suggest using a pen/pencil and pad of paper...everytime you leave the house, make a note of the day and time of day you left and are expected back and where you went.

If you decide to leave your house to move in with other friends or family, make sure you leave a note with all the information, so it other friends or family know where you went and do not wait around your house wondering if you ever get back.



SC, I have a bunch of old Tube Ham radio equipment as well as am keeping a ton of my electronics in sealed grounded 55 gallon drums. When the SHTF, I think I will still be able to communicate.

Your idea of leaving a note is fine, but how do you know that the person reading the note is who you intended? I think a little OPSEC is in order. Use code. Two or more identical books can be used as a code generator and theres many different ways to employ them. Besides, it would take a computer that was programmed with the library of congress to be able to crack the code. I think the NSA will have better things to do. Also, nobodys computer will be functional anyway.

Good luck.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 982167


This is the reason I bring the note up. There are a shit-ton of people out there that don't believe an event like this can take place, so the preparations, like you mention above, most likely will not take place.

BUT, all you have to say is that if this happens, leave a note so loved ones can track you down if you are leaving your house for another abode, or a shelter...
Anonymous Coward
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06/24/2010 04:50 PM
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Re: Communicating after EMP attack, Solar Flare/Storm, Magnetic Pole Shift
to get the word out to more...this is important information that can save lives.

bump
 Quoting: Falconia


Hey Falconia...glad you stopped by
Anonymous Coward
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06/24/2010 04:55 PM
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Re: Communicating after EMP attack, Solar Flare/Storm, Magnetic Pole Shift
Some of my family only live 1 hour away, but contacting them would be extremely difficult without a car to travel, and phones not working.

I really wonder how the people like 100 or 200 years ago lived ... did they had alien help ... how did they master life .... unbelievable !!! putin Cool down OP, all will be fine.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1014323


LOL, I'm with you. Actually I am worried about others...not me or my family. Over the last few years, they have decided to trust my thoughts and intuition, and KNOW that the possibility exists out there...so its all good...thank you for your concern!
Anonymous Coward
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06/24/2010 05:01 PM
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Re: Communicating after EMP attack, Solar Flare/Storm, Magnetic Pole Shift
Keep 1 UHF radio and 1 CB radio inside a unused microwave oven or as many radios as you can fit. The hull of the microwave over serves as a poor mans Faraday cage.



Very useful information, the entire post. Thank you.


You are welcome, USAF taught me well back in those cold war days.


I'm not sure this is right, microwaves protect against microwaves surprisingly.

A nuke emits what ? I read it can send all wavelengths.

The sun emits what ?


 Quoting: Eight Squared 1009134


Not sure if your vid is referring to me or Mr I got taught BS in the USAF

A Faraday cage doesn't offer protection from the effects of EMP unless the mesh is designed to have holes no bigger than the smallest wavelength emitted from a nuclear explosion. In practice this is impossible as a nuclear explosion emits all known wavelengths, some smaller than the atomic bonds of some metals.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Now my question is what wavelengths does a EMP from the sun emit ?
Anonymous Coward
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06/24/2010 05:02 PM
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Re: Communicating after EMP attack, Solar Flare/Storm, Magnetic Pole Shift
Dan Sherman [project camelot, way above black] intuitive communications is the military s use.
Anonymous Coward
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06/24/2010 05:05 PM
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Re: Communicating after EMP attack, Solar Flare/Storm, Magnetic Pole Shift
nope just very resourceful.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 575340

Like "looting" resourceful? '.'
Anonymous Coward
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06/24/2010 05:06 PM
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Re: Communicating after EMP attack, Solar Flare/Storm, Magnetic Pole Shift
Dan Sherman [project camelot, way above black] intuitive communications is the military s use.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1014435


Working on that one, but its tough...
aether
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06/24/2010 05:11 PM
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Re: Communicating after EMP attack, Solar Flare/Storm, Magnetic Pole Shift
OK, so what you are saying is this. SDO and others detect emp threat incoming from sun. At that point it is only 15 minutes to impact!?

But shutdown of grid systems takes 5 hours to 3 days. So, there is no way to shutdown grid in time no matter the advance warning from available resources...

Maintaining order...of course thats the biggest threat! No communications for first responders...no GPS for guidance...

...leaves military...does military have the proper resources for communication after such an event?
 Quoting: Sickscent


haha...one at a time...

OK, so what you are saying is this. SDO and others detect emp threat incoming from sun. At that point it is only 15 minutes to impact!?

But shutdown of grid systems takes 5 hours to 3 days. So, there is no way to shutdown grid in time no matter the advance warning from available resources...
 Quoting: Sickscent


ACE can provide between 15 and 45 minutes' warning of any incoming geomagnetic storms. The power companies need about 15 minutes to prepare their systems for a critical event, so that would seem passable.

there is time to protect the grid

ACE is old and only the military have hardware in position to do the job

the problem is a political one.

when or if do you consider the risk worthy of pubilc announcement and cordination of protective duties?

imagine the global effect if the usa were to do that

the reagan effect????

"In our obsession with antagonisms of the moment, we often forget how much unites all the members of humanity. Perhaps we need some outside, universal threat to make us recognize this common bond. I occasionally think how quickly our differences worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this world"

Speech to the United Nations General Assembly, 42nd General Assembly

September 21, 1987


this "new" universe may have many as yet unimagined effects upon our collective future
Anonymous Coward
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06/24/2010 05:13 PM
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Re: Communicating after EMP attack, Solar Flare/Storm, Magnetic Pole Shift
OK, so what you are saying is this. SDO and others detect emp threat incoming from sun. At that point it is only 15 minutes to impact!?

But shutdown of grid systems takes 5 hours to 3 days. So, there is no way to shutdown grid in time no matter the advance warning from available resources...

Maintaining order...of course thats the biggest threat! No communications for first responders...no GPS for guidance...

...leaves military...does military have the proper resources for communication after such an event?

haha...one at a time...

OK, so what you are saying is this. SDO and others detect emp threat incoming from sun. At that point it is only 15 minutes to impact!?

But shutdown of grid systems takes 5 hours to 3 days. So, there is no way to shutdown grid in time no matter the advance warning from available resources...

ACE can provide between 15 and 45 minutes' warning of any incoming geomagnetic storms. The power companies need about 15 minutes to prepare their systems for a critical event, so that would seem passable.

there is time to protect the grid

ACE is old and only the military have hardware in position to do the job

the problem is a political one.

when or if do you consider the risk worthy of pubilc announcement and cordination of protective duties?

imagine the global effect if the usa were to do that

the reagan effect????

"In our obsession with antagonisms of the moment, we often forget how much unites all the members of humanity. Perhaps we need some outside, universal threat to make us recognize this common bond. I occasionally think how quickly our differences worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this world"

Speech to the United Nations General Assembly, 42nd General Assembly

September 21, 1987


this "new" universe may have many as yet unimagined effects upon our collective future
 Quoting: aether 1013567


Well, there are many out there that are looking forward to it.
Anonymous Coward
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06/24/2010 05:28 PM
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Re: Communicating after EMP attack, Solar Flare/Storm, Magnetic Pole Shift
bump
VS

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06/24/2010 06:03 PM
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Re: Communicating after EMP attack, Solar Flare/Storm, Magnetic Pole Shift
I have told everyone that if any crazy shit happens....get to my Mothers house(wood heat/fresh water/stone cellar/etc)...I of course say it in a "joking" manner...but if shit ever does go down...they will remember hf


LOL, exactly. That's the way I did it.


My little sister is 3 hours away at uni and living with my best friend of 20+ years...he knows that his only mission is to get her home if TSHTF! Most importantly, I trust that he would die doing so :)

As the oldest girl in a family with many children, I feel a duty to take care of them all if ever things do get crazy! Sometimes they look at me as though I'm living in a different world, but they trust me, as they should!


That is my role in my family and extended family now.
 Quoting: Sickscent


uhhhmmm i dont think youre crazy.
VS

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06/24/2010 06:08 PM
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Re: Communicating after EMP attack, Solar Flare/Storm, Magnetic Pole Shift
Most of us know what we might need, but I was curious if many of us thought about communicating to family or friends. Like having a plan. For example, if this scenario does come round, it might be much better to try and get to my brother's house than attempting to stay at my own. And if plans were made ahead of time, well... the situation could be much more successful than guessing who in your inner circle is going to do what.


Hola SS.

I'm going to be putting a few items into my rather nifty farraday cage. Including several sets of two way radios with 5ish mile radius. I have a generator and bunches of gas (ok...not bunches, but quite a bit). The generator has a farraday cage around it, too. The generator isn't much, but it will power a few luxury items until the gas is gone. Mostly the generator is for refrigeration and water pump operation. I'm on a deep well and haven't quite figured out how to keep that working AFTER the EMP. ugh.

I'm researching other power schemes, but honestly...nothing seems to be worth the time or money involved. I got a tight budget.

I have "organized" a "compound" of sorts with a few local peeps with varying skill sets. They know that if anything happens to get to ma hizzle asap, and bring the agreed upon resources. I have 6+ clean acres and the neighbor (rusty) and his family got 6+ clean acres. Tree lined with Pecan trees across the road and forest behind us.

The paper and pencil idea works, but assumes that various people will have access to wherever the notes are placed. Communication and transportation are HUGE in trying to create a "community". We use what we got, and the paper/pencil idea seems to be what we got.

As an aside, we noticed in Katrina that various military and health organizations used spray paint on doors...and sharpie on body parts. Not an ideal solution.


Hola Nevynshyne...Good idea. And, if you had access to a running generator for the first few months while making the transition...that would fucking be nice beyond belief, even if yuo eventually run out of fuel. It is the initial transition stages that are going to be the bitch, and anything that makes that simpler or more comfortable is going to be valuable.
 Quoting: Sickscent


i would suggest getting a hand pump with extra long lengths of hose to pump gas from abandoned vehicles and gas stations.
<<LOOK`n thru YOU>>

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06/25/2010 06:06 AM
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Re: Communicating after EMP attack, Solar Flare/Storm, Magnetic Pole Shift
This is a little info from what happened in 1859...it`s not a question of if it will happen again but when will it happen again..Only this time our reliablity on modern technology will be our downfall..why wouldn`t a person be prepared, especially with NASA holding meetings about it now for 3 years in a row...

"In scientific circles where solar flares, magnetic storms and other unique solar events are discussed, the occurrences of September 1-2, 1859, are the star stuff of legend. Even 144 years ago, many of Earth's inhabitants realized something momentous had just occurred. Within hours, telegraph wires in both the United States and Europe spontaneously shorted out, causing numerous fires, while the Northern Lights, solar-induced phenomena more closely associated with regions near Earth's North Pole, were documented as far south as Rome, Havana and Hawaii, with similar effects at the South Pole."


[link to science.nasa.gov]


Raising people`s awareness of this threat isn`t the easiest thing to do but when I reference the 1859 storm it seems to help. They can research it themselves on the internet and come up with their own conclusion.

Have ya ever been to "The wall" by Kansas:

[link to www.youtube.com]

or "Dust in the Wind"

[link to www.youtube.com]

Last Edited by <<LOOK`n thru YOU>> on 06/25/2010 06:33 AM
Anonymous Coward
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06/25/2010 06:42 AM
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Re: Communicating after EMP attack, Solar Flare/Storm, Magnetic Pole Shift
got some good links for the 1859 storm ?
Anonymous Coward
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Netherlands
06/25/2010 06:54 AM
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Re: Communicating after EMP attack, Solar Flare/Storm, Magnetic Pole Shift
i think old cars won't run, for the condensator (bobine?)
will get toast, same with 2 stroke engines (saw, lawnmacine)

diesel will run, only to get the pully around by hand is tough (high compression)

emp from sun travels fast, somewhere i read: within 8-9 minutes it will arrive earth.

not a lot of time to react and

YOU DONT LIKE TO BE IN A AIRPLANE !!!!
aether
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06/25/2010 06:56 AM
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Re: Communicating after EMP attack, Solar Flare/Storm, Magnetic Pole Shift
March 1989 geomagnetic storm

The March 1989 geomagnetic storm was a severe geomagnetic storm that caused the collapse of the Hydro-Québec power grid.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
<<LOOK`n thru YOU>>

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06/25/2010 07:01 AM
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Re: Communicating after EMP attack, Solar Flare/Storm, Magnetic Pole Shift
got some good links for the 1859 storm ?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1015013


[link to science.nasa.gov]

There are several if ya just google 1859 solar storm or CME
Anonymous Coward
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06/25/2010 07:13 AM
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Re: Communicating after EMP attack, Solar Flare/Storm, Magnetic Pole Shift
I know some people who used to race pigeons... maybe it's time to acquire a couple of those birds... the original postman.
This is solid thinking SS... will be discussing this with my fam this weekend. Thanks!... as usual.....
Anonymous Coward
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06/25/2010 07:28 AM
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Re: Communicating after EMP attack, Solar Flare/Storm, Magnetic Pole Shift
i think old cars won't run, for the condensator (bobine?)
will get toast, same with 2 stroke engines (saw, lawnmacine)

diesel will run, only to get the pully around by hand is tough (high compression)

emp from sun travels fast, somewhere i read: within 8-9 minutes it will arrive earth.

not a lot of time to react and

YOU DONT LIKE TO BE IN A AIRPLANE !!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 979825


That is how fast the light travels.

The 'storm' moves much slower as it is composed of energetic particles.

Anywhere from 2-4 days is a better estimate/average.

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