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The CORNERSTONE of chemtrail belief is an OUTRIGHT LIE...

 
G. House
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02/22/2009 09:54 AM

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The CORNERSTONE of chemtrail belief is an OUTRIGHT LIE...
the cornerstone of so-called chemtrail believers, that ALL ordinary jet contrails dissipate rapidly is an outright lie.

I will provide ABSOLUTE concrete proof that it is in fact a contrived falsehood.

I present to you an easily obtainable book, currently available at such outlets as amazon.com and most probably your local library.

I own a copy of this book and obtained it in 1982, a full decade BEFORE so-called chemtrails were supposedly started to have been sprayed.

Type in bold print is quoted from the book.

The Peterson Field Guide Series A Field Guide to the Atmosphere Houghton Mifflin Company 1981.

Has many interesting things about contrails in it.

Here is some text from page 137:

In this era of high-flying aircraft, condensation trails - contrails - are a commonly observed feature of the sky. Sometimes they are ephemeral and dissipate as quickly as they form; other times they persist and grow wide enough to cover a substantial portion of the sky with a sheet of cirrostratus. Sometimes they maintain their integrity as a line of cloud formed in the wake of the rapidly moving aircraft; at other times they develop a series of pendules from which streamers of precipitation are observed to fall.

Contrails are a fascinating subject for study, sufficiently complex to challenge the expert and sufficiently variable to intrigue the amateur observer. Properly understood they yield a wealth of information about the current state of affairs in the high atmosphere, where it is difficult to locate weather instruments. Observed systematically, as a function of time, contrail information is a valuable adjunct to forecasting the weather.


Many other examples and photos showing phenomenom claimed by chemtrailers as only being possible by nefarious ways. In text and photos from 1981 or earlier.

Photograph page 132 Pl.145 V - Condensation trail from a jet plane that produces its shadow on a diffuse mass of ice crystals extending downward below the contrail and the sun.

(This shoots to hell the dark "chemtrail" BS chemtrailers try to pass and not only shows one in 1981 or earlier but also explains why the phenomenom occurs.

Photograph page 132 Pl.146 - The condensation trail of a jet plane that is growing where the moist air is supersaturated with the respect to ice. This show that the contrail is located below the thin streamers of ice.

This photo is the same as many posted by many chemtrailers that they claim can ONLY BE the result of "chemical spraying". But here we have an example from 1981 or earlier that shows these phenomenom were seen a full decade before claims of chemtrail spraying.


Basically this information shoots down most claims made by the chemtrailers. Shoots down and tramples them in the earth.

The Peterson Field Guide Series was sponsored by the National Audubon Society.
"Everybody lies."
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2009 09:57 AM
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Re: The CORNERSTONE of chemtrail belief is an OUTRIGHT LIE...
bsflag

They're spraying right now.
G. House (OP)

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02/22/2009 10:04 AM

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Re: The CORNERSTONE of chemtrail belief is an OUTRIGHT LIE...
bsflag

They're spraying right now.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 576944


No,

they are flying aircraft at high altitudes in atmospheric conditions conducive to producing persistant contrails.

Another factor that chemtards don't seem to be aware of is the fact that water is one of the only materials that behaves in a manner that would make a "persistant contrail" visible.

Most of the materials chemtards claim to be in so-called chemtrails wouldn't be visible anyway.
"Everybody lies."
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2009 10:08 AM
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Re: The CORNERSTONE of chemtrail belief is an OUTRIGHT LIE...
Either you believe in what you say, or there's a special compartment in a special dimension waiting for you....you have your date with destiny...LOL!
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2009 10:10 AM
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Re: The CORNERSTONE of chemtrail belief is an OUTRIGHT LIE...
well, gwen dyer was on canadian tv 3 weeks ago promoting his 'global warming' book (dyer follows the military, so he wrote a book on military involment on the climate issue) and basically said the militaries have an aerosol program to reflect the sun's rays back into space. sounds like chemtrails to me.
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2009 10:13 AM
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Re: The CORNERSTONE of chemtrail belief is an OUTRIGHT LIE...
My theory is that they are actually the result of fuel additives designed to act like your car's catalytic converter (you can't put a cat coverter on a jest engine) to reduze the ozone production in jet exhaust because this was harming the TPTB plan to reduce the ozone layer.
G. House (OP)

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02/22/2009 10:18 AM

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Re: The CORNERSTONE of chemtrail belief is an OUTRIGHT LIE...
well, gwen dyer was on canadian tv 3 weeks ago promoting his 'global warming' book (dyer follows the military, so he wrote a book on military involment on the climate issue) and basically said the militaries have an aerosol program to reflect the sun's rays back into space. sounds like chemtrails to me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 318755


Well if some friggen obscure journalist says it, it has to be true doesn't it?
"Everybody lies."
G. House (OP)

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02/22/2009 10:20 AM

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Re: The CORNERSTONE of chemtrail belief is an OUTRIGHT LIE...
My theory is that they are actually the result of fuel additives designed to act like your car's catalytic converter (you can't put a cat coverter on a jest engine) to reduze the ozone production in jet exhaust because this was harming the TPTB plan to reduce the ozone layer.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 616204


And do you actually have anything to back up that production of ozone by jet engines was a problem in the first place?

Kerosene is an extremely clean burning fuel in the first place.
"Everybody lies."
gsbltd

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02/22/2009 10:35 AM
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Re: The CORNERSTONE of chemtrail belief is an OUTRIGHT LIE...
OP:

I'm not here to argue atmospherics - rather, I'll ask you one simple question:

Do you seriously believe that these highly-skilled pilots are flying their outrageously expensive aircraft over our heads just out for a joyride, PLAYING TICK-TACK-TOE? The PATTERNS have a PURPOSE; they are clearly deliberate as specific FLIGHT PLANS are REQUIRED for even short training flights in military/civilian aircraft.

And: don't try to dispute that these craft are flying in specific patterns - this has been documented repeatedly in the past several years.

BTW: I saw my first contrails about 50 years ago... it was a B-52 taking off from nearby McConnell AFB... and what I'm seeing today [coming from that same AFB] may not be a big bomber like the '52' but they are faster, more manoeuverable and ARE laying down specific grids in the sky above my head.
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2009 10:38 AM
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Re: The CORNERSTONE of chemtrail belief is an OUTRIGHT LIE...
5a
G. House (OP)

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02/22/2009 10:39 AM

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Re: The CORNERSTONE of chemtrail belief is an OUTRIGHT LIE...
Barium absorbs the ozone and aluminum catalyzes the conversion to oxygen and nitrogen.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 616204


There is nitrogen in ozone?

You're not a chemist are you?
"Everybody lies."
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2009 10:39 AM
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Re: The CORNERSTONE of chemtrail belief is an OUTRIGHT LIE...
My theory is that they are act [link to www.wipo.int] the result of fuel additives designed to act like your car's catalytic converter (you can't put a cat coverter on a jest engine) to reduze the ozone production in jet exhaust because this was harming the TPTB plan to reduce the ozone layer.


And do you actually have anything to back up that production of ozone by jet engines was a problem in the first place?

Kerosene is an extremely clean burning fuel in the first place.
 Quoting: G. House


This is a big problem in areas like LA where there is a photochemical smog. The nitrogen-oxygen compounds produced in car exhaust react with the volatile organic compounds (VOC) and sunlight to produce ozone.

Here is description of an invention using aluminum to remove ozone and VOCs.


[link to www.wipo.int]
G. House (OP)

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02/22/2009 10:42 AM

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Re: The CORNERSTONE of chemtrail belief is an OUTRIGHT LIE...
OP:

I'm not here to argue atmospherics - rather, I'll ask you one simple question:

Do you seriously believe that these highly-skilled pilots are flying their outrageously expensive aircraft over our heads just out for a joyride, PLAYING TICK-TACK-TOE? The PATTERNS have a PURPOSE; they are clearly deliberate as specific FLIGHT PLANS are REQUIRED for even short training flights in military/civilian aircraft.

And: don't try to dispute that these craft are flying in specific patterns - this has been documented repeatedly in the past several years.

BTW: I saw my first contrails about 50 years ago... it was a B-52 taking off from nearby McConnell AFB... and what I'm seeing today [coming from that same AFB] may not be a big bomber like the '52' but they are faster, more manoeuverable and ARE laying down specific grids in the sky above my head.
 Quoting: gsbltd


I guarantee you that some aircraft fly east or west.

And that some fly north and south.

Quite a few different directions actually.

That if a contrail persists, it should not be too difficult for a rational person to realize that the resulting pattern might indeed be a friggen tic-tac-toe.
"Everybody lies."
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2009 10:49 AM
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Re: The CORNERSTONE of chemtrail belief is an OUTRIGHT LIE...
Barium absorbs the ozone and aluminum catalyzes the conversion to oxygen and nitrogen.



There is nitrogen in ozone?

You're not a chemist are you?
 Quoting: G. House


The nitrogen-oxygen compounds (NOx) are a precursors for ozone production. Laughing gas (nitrous oxide) is a good ozone generator. A nearby gamm ray burst has been postulated as the cause of the Ordovician extinction. Massive quantities of NOx would be created by the gammas with a persistence of five years - enough to bombard the planet with massive doses of UVB.

Certain ocean plankton are actually believed to create clouds over themselves in the ocean when bombarded by UVB. They do this by generating DMSO which is evaporated and forms the cloud condensation nuclei. Land plants close down their pores and CO2 builds up creating a greenhouse hot house until the pole shift thermoregulator mechanism (depending on the degree of UVB) kicks in as the earth itself trys to protect life. IMHO. THis thermoregulation system may or may not be known to TPTB scientists - think great ice ages in terms of effect.
ACC
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02/22/2009 10:53 AM
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Re: The CORNERSTONE of chemtrail belief is an OUTRIGHT LIE...
gives

And no shit its a lie. lol Its a conspiracy.

I have no doubt that what I am seeing is legal weather modification. Cloud seeding.

Its obvious.
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2009 10:55 AM
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Re: The CORNERSTONE of chemtrail belief is an OUTRIGHT LIE...
bsflag
G. House (OP)

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02/22/2009 11:06 AM

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Re: The CORNERSTONE of chemtrail belief is an OUTRIGHT LIE...
Barium absorbs the ozone and aluminum catalyzes the conversion to oxygen and nitrogen.



There is nitrogen in ozone?

You're not a chemist are you?


The nitrogen-oxygen compounds (NOx) are a precursors for ozone production. Laughing gas (nitrous oxide) is a good ozone generator. A nearby gamm ray burst has been postulated as the cause of the Ordovician extinction. Massive quantities of NOx would be created by the gammas with a persistence of five years - enough to bombard the planet with massive doses of UVB.

Certain ocean plankton are actually believed to create clouds over themselves in the ocean when bombarded by UVB. They do this by generating DMSO which is evaporated and forms the cloud condensation nuclei. Land plants close down their pores and CO2 builds up creating a greenhouse hot house until the pole shift thermoregulator mechanism (depending on the degree of UVB) kicks in as the earth itself trys to protect life. IMHO. THis thermoregulation system may or may not be known to TPTB scientists - think great ice ages in terms of effect.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 616204


You were talking about jet exhaust.

There isn't any ozone in jet exhaust.
"Everybody lies."
gsbltd

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02/22/2009 11:07 AM
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Re: The CORNERSTONE of chemtrail belief is an OUTRIGHT LIE...
OP:

You're a FOOL. I've stood on my patio and watched two jets flying parallel to one another for several miles, make a quick turn and then repeat the same line of flight as they lay down their patterns. At McConnell, there are usually five jets involved in this operation as they crisscross the area above Sedwick County, KS. These are not commercial jets [as you feebly attempt to suggest] - I live 1/4m from McConnell's west gate and can visually track them easily from takeoff and have done so for many, many years.

BTW: Wichita KS has been known as the 'Air Capitol Of The World' for decades due to the number of planes that are produced locally... but the AIRSPACE ABOVE MCCONNELL AFB HAS ALWAYS BEEN RESTRICTED. Two days ago I gathered a couple of witnesses to watch with me as jets from the base created their grids overhead [I also posted about it here on GLP]- that is... directly over the base. The aircraft laying down the chemtrail patterns are doing so under miltary authority.

FUTHER: your 'absolute proof' of a 1982 book proves NOTHING!! It is a book primarily concerned with atmospheric conditions and does NOT address the current chemtrail operations specifically. Your claims are groundless and this thread mere disinformation.
G. House (OP)

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02/22/2009 11:08 AM

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Re: The CORNERSTONE of chemtrail belief is an OUTRIGHT LIE...
gives

And no shit its a lie. lol Its a conspiracy.

I have no doubt that what I am seeing is legal weather modification. Cloud seeding.

Its obvious.
 Quoting: ACC 573022


Cloud seeding methods and equipment bear no resemblance to what you call "chemtrails".

Feel free to provide links to the contrary.
"Everybody lies."
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2009 11:13 AM
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Re: The CORNERSTONE of chemtrail belief is an OUTRIGHT LIE...
OP:

I'm not here to argue atmospherics - rather, I'll ask you one simple question:

Do you seriously believe that these highly-skilled pilots are flying their outrageously expensive aircraft over our heads just out for a joyride, PLAYING TICK-TACK-TOE? The PATTERNS have a PURPOSE; they are clearly deliberate as specific FLIGHT PLANS are REQUIRED for even short training flights in military/civilian aircraft.

And: don't try to dispute that these craft are flying in specific patterns - this has been documented repeatedly in the past several years.

BTW: I saw my first contrails about 50 years ago... it was a B-52 taking off from nearby McConnell AFB... and what I'm seeing today [coming from that same AFB] may not be a big bomber like the '52' but they are faster, more manoeuverable and ARE laying down specific grids in the sky above my head.
 Quoting: gsbltd

exactly. ghouse is a fed right?
G. House (OP)

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02/22/2009 11:13 AM

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Re: The CORNERSTONE of chemtrail belief is an OUTRIGHT LIE...
OP:

You're a FOOL. I've stood on my patio and watched two jets flying parallel to one another for several miles, make a quick turn and then repeat the same line of flight as they lay down their patterns. At McConnell, there are usually five jets involved in this operation as they crisscross the area above Sedwick County, KS. These are not commercial jets [as you feebly attempt to suggest] - I live 1/4m from McConnell's west gate and can visually track them easily from takeoff and have done so for many, many years.

BTW: Wichita KS has been known as the 'Air Capitol Of The World' for decades due to the number of planes that are produced locally... but the AIRSPACE ABOVE MCCONNELL AFB HAS ALWAYS BEEN RESTRICTED. Two days ago I gathered a couple of witnesses to watch with me as jets from the base created their grids overhead [I also posted about it here on GLP]- that is... directly over the base. The aircraft laying down the chemtrail patterns are doing so under miltary authority.
 Quoting: gsbltd


Yes the military does possess aircraft capable of high altitude flight.

Yes, sometimes they do fly these aircraft in formation and sometimes they fly mission that include flying to a waypoint, turning around and flying a different course.

Amazing isn't it.

Shouldn't be too friggen hard to figure out.

And God forbid they would fly those same aircraft (gasp) in the vicinity of their own base and airspace.

No, I don't think I'm the fool here.
"Everybody lies."
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2009 11:15 AM
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Re: The CORNERSTONE of chemtrail belief is an OUTRIGHT LIE...
Barium absorbs the ozone and aluminum catalyzes the conversion to oxygen and nitrogen.



There is nitrogen in ozone?

You're not a chemist are you?


The nitrogen-oxygen compounds (NOx) are a precursors for ozone production. Laughing gas (nitrous oxide) is a good ozone generator. A nearby gamm ray burst has been postulated as the cause of the Ordovician extinction. Massive quantities of NOx would be created by the gammas with a persistence of five years - enough to bombard the planet with massive doses of UVB.

Certain ocean plankton are actually believed to create clouds over themselves in the ocean when bombarded by UVB. They do this by generating DMSO which is evaporated and forms the cloud condensation nuclei. Land plants close down their pores and CO2 builds up creating a greenhouse hot house until the pole shift thermoregulator mechanism (depending on the degree of UVB) kicks in as the earth itself trys to protect life. IMHO. THis thermoregulation system may or may not be known to TPTB scientists - think great ice ages in terms of effect.


You were talking about jet exhaust.

There isn't any ozone in jet exhaust.
 Quoting: G. House


N + O3 ->NO +O2
NO + O-> N +O2
N+O3+NO+O->NO+N+2O2
gsbltd

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02/22/2009 11:22 AM
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Re: The CORNERSTONE of chemtrail belief is an OUTRIGHT LIE...
550600:

The OP may not be a 'fed' - but I am a semi-retired federal employee. That's just one reason it ticks me off so much that the USAF are involved in this type of operation... and why I have such little tolerance for snotty little punks like the OP here. It also really torques me that -after all the years of this spraying- we STILL don't have solid evidence of WHAT they're actually doing up there. And, when you factor in the cost of such operations it really makes this old man's blood boil.

But, let the OP continue to make his groundless statements - as I pointed out to him above, his sourcebook is completely worthless in supporting his arguments... and in any event: no book, no video, no MSM-denial, NO EVIDENCE can match that which comes from personal observations.
A Concerned Canadian

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02/22/2009 11:47 AM
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Re: The CORNERSTONE of chemtrail belief is an OUTRIGHT LIE...
gives

And no shit its a lie. lol Its a conspiracy.

I have no doubt that what I am seeing is legal weather modification. Cloud seeding.

Its obvious.


Cloud seeding methods and equipment bear no resemblance to what you call "chemtrails".

Feel free to provide links to the contrary.
 Quoting: G. House

Sure they do. lmao I believe this is the way they do it too. Well at its earliest stages. One would think a few modifications would have taken place in the last 38 years.

[link to patft.uspto.gov]

United States Patent 3,613,992
Knollenberg October 19, 1971

"""The present invention provides a method for producing rain or snow from natural atmospheric clouds using seeding agents characterized by a high solubility in water and a large endothermic heat of solution in water. Typical examples of materials suitable for use in practicing this invention are urea, potassium nitrate, potassium nitrite, and ammonium nitrate. Laboratory experiments have shown urea to be effective in producing ice crystals in a vapor cloud having a temperature as high as +6.degree. C. In field experiments, urea has been observed to cause snow showers in supercooled clouds."""

"""A series of field tests using urea as a seeding agent for supercooled clouds was carried out during midwinter in off-airways areas in the north-central United States. A specially instrumented airplane was used for releasing the urea and for monitoring the results. In three of the field experiments the urea was manually released by allowing it to flow out a 4 inch diameter plastic tube that was fitted into a hole in the fuselage of the airplane. Twenty pounds of urea were dropped in these field releases and the average seeding rate was between 5 and 10 pounds per mile. In the first and second field experiments, the urea used was similar to that used in the laboratory tests."""

Experimental weather modification coming to your neighborhood, soon
Originally published on News With Views. 11-02-07
[link to www.californiaskywatch.com]

But come on man, what did you think weather modification looked like?

If one drops all the conspiracy stuff they seem to dwell on, they would see that what they are looking at is really quite simple.

Here.
[link to www.weathermodification.org]
Become a member. Founded in 1951.
G. House (OP)

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02/22/2009 11:55 AM

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Re: The CORNERSTONE of chemtrail belief is an OUTRIGHT LIE...
550600:

The OP may not be a 'fed' - but I am a semi-retired federal employee. That's just one reason it ticks me off so much that the USAF are involved in this type of operation... and why I have such little tolerance for snotty little punks like the OP here. It also really torques me that -after all the years of this spraying- we STILL don't have solid evidence of WHAT they're actually doing up there. And, when you factor in the cost of such operations it really makes this old man's blood boil.

But, let the OP continue to make his groundless statements - as I pointed out to him above, his sourcebook is completely worthless in supporting his arguments... and in any event: no book, no video, no MSM-denial, NO EVIDENCE can match that which comes from personal observations.
 Quoting: gsbltd


Yet personal observations are a good part of what was written in book as I said PRE-DATING the so-called chemtrail myth by a full decade.

Now the reason I quoted the book is it's tangible, and easy to obtain. It has more legitamacy in a forum such as this versus heresay personal observation.

However...

I do have personal observations of my own.

The first time I remember seeing persistant contrails was in 1959. I was in my backyard with my cousin and he pointed it out and explaned what it was.

So...

solid evidence of WHAT they're actually doing up there

Flying at an altitude and in an atmosphere conducive to persistant contrails or persistant contrails that spread out into clouds is what's going on.

If it offends your esthetics because you don't think it's pretty, or blocks out the Sun, I can understand that.

Does it affect the environment as a whole? I would think in a small way it does.

But to blow it into a wild grand conspiracy based on bad science and utter falsehoods is just, well...

delusional?
"Everybody lies."
G. House (OP)

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02/22/2009 12:02 PM

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Re: The CORNERSTONE of chemtrail belief is an OUTRIGHT LIE...
But come on man, what did you think weather modification looked like?

 Quoting: A Concerned Canadian


OK, do I have to spell it out for you?

In the first place the vast majority of cloud seeding aircraft are light twins.

They have racks of flares mounted to the aircraft.

Ever wonder why it's hard to find a photograph of the actual operation?

Because they actually fly inside the clouds when using the flares.

Another method is shooting rockets with flares into clouds.

Now...

please tell me.

What does that have to do with what you people describe as "chemtrails"?
"Everybody lies."
G. House (OP)

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02/22/2009 12:04 PM

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Re: The CORNERSTONE of chemtrail belief is an OUTRIGHT LIE...
N + O3 ->NO +O2
NO + O-> N +O2
N+O3+NO+O->NO+N+2O2
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 616204


I'll say it again, there isn't any ozone in jet exhaust.
"Everybody lies."
Plane, Valeair Plane
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02/22/2009 12:04 PM
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Re: The CORNERSTONE of chemtrail belief is an OUTRIGHT LIE...
I've been told that loser beam can be of a certain utility to dissipate chomicals.
Winningjob

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02/22/2009 12:05 PM
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Re: The CORNERSTONE of chemtrail belief is an OUTRIGHT LIE...
Hey all! Here is a question: If chemtrails are cloud seeding..why then not fix the droughts, say..in California instead of cutting off water supply to the farms which will only make things worse in the long run?

I am NOT debating chemtrails vs. contrails in this post..that can be done in another topic. I saw someone talking about seeding on this thread though and we all know that Russia and China are very proud of their ability to control the weather...which would be related to scalar weapons right?
A Concerned Canadian

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02/22/2009 12:33 PM
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Re: The CORNERSTONE of chemtrail belief is an OUTRIGHT LIE...
But come on man, what did you think weather modification looked like?



OK, do I have to spell it out for you?

In the first place the vast majority of cloud seeding aircraft are light twins.

They have racks of flares mounted to the aircraft.

Ever wonder why it's hard to find a photograph of the actual operation?

Because they actually fly inside the clouds when using the flares.

Another method is shooting rockets with flares into clouds.

Now...

please tell me.

What does that have to do with what you people describe as "chemtrails"?
 Quoting: G. House

You can believe your conspiracies all you want G. But this has been going on for half a century - at least.
Amish

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02/22/2009 12:44 PM
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Re: The CORNERSTONE of chemtrail belief is an OUTRIGHT LIE...
What are these planes flying in pattern overhead clouding the sky? They're not normal clouds which I rarely see anymore.

News