Godlike Productions - Discussion Forum
Users Online Now: 2,209 (Who's On?)Visitors Today: 732,293
Pageviews Today: 1,290,475Threads Today: 550Posts Today: 9,422
03:11 PM


Rate this Thread

Absolute BS Crap Reasonable Nice Amazing
 

Can fractals make sense of the quantum world?

 
BLUESTAR
User ID: 651002
United Kingdom
04/06/2009 12:17 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Can fractals make sense of the quantum world?
QUANTUM theory just seems too weird to believe. Particles can be in more than one place at a time. They don't exist until you measure them. Spookier still, they can even stay in touch when they are separated by great distances.

Einstein thought this was all a bit much, believing it to be evidence of major problems with the theory, as many critics still suspect today. Quantum enthusiasts point to the theory's extraordinary success in explaining the behaviour of atoms, electrons and other quantum systems. They insist we have to accept the theory as it is, however strange it may seem.

But what if there were a way to reconcile these two opposing views, by showing how quantum theory might emerge from a deeper level of non-weird physics?

If you listen to physicist Tim Palmer, it begins to sound plausible. What has been missing, he argues, are some key ideas from an area of science that most quantum physicists have ignored: the science of fractals, those intricate patterns found in everything from fractured surfaces to oceanic flows (see What is a fractal?).

Take the mathematics of fractals into account, says Palmer, and the long-standing puzzles of quantum theory may be much easier to understand. They might even dissolve away.

It is an argument that is drawing attention from physicists around the world. "His approach is very interesting and refreshingly different," says physicist Robert Spekkens of the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics in Waterloo, Canada. "He's not just trying to reinterpret the usual quantum formalism, but actually to derive it from something deeper."

[link to www.newscientist.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 537103
Canada
04/06/2009 12:38 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can fractals make sense of the quantum world?
I had a fractal once. Kept me up all night!



yawn
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 648995
United States
04/06/2009 12:40 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can fractals make sense of the quantum world?
No, because quantum physics is relevant to reality and makes no sense, just like relativity.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 648995
United States
04/06/2009 12:40 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can fractals make sense of the quantum world?
I meant "irrelevant", sorry.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 648995
United States
04/06/2009 12:41 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can fractals make sense of the quantum world?
I had a fractal once. Kept me up all night!

yawn
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 537103

I once saw a guy get a compound fractal of the leg. He fell out of a tree.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 613888
Canada
04/06/2009 12:46 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can fractals make sense of the quantum world?
i had a fractaled jaw last year
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 467553
United States
04/06/2009 02:31 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can fractals make sense of the quantum world?
hf
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 649520
United States
04/06/2009 02:36 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can fractals make sense of the quantum world?
the quantum world makes sense to me. much more sense than the idiotic human world.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 577777
United States
04/06/2009 02:40 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can fractals make sense of the quantum world?
I accidentally the whole fractal
Thoughts Faux Fodder

User ID: 684049
United States
05/23/2009 08:31 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can fractals make sense of the quantum world?
i love fractals :-)



there are a lot of physicists who think M theory will unify the seeming contradictions - they are completing Einsteins work, he simply ran out of time......



Last Edited by Thoughts Faux Fodder on 05/23/2009 10:14 AM
Hope is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune--without the words,
And never stops at all....
Emily Dickinson
BurningBeard

User ID: 680457
United States
05/23/2009 08:34 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can fractals make sense of the quantum world?
I think in 2011 when LISA gets put up into space we'll get one step closer to finding out how this all works. :)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 683972
Australia
05/23/2009 08:41 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can fractals make sense of the quantum world?
Non-linear Mathematics

Common methods for the qualitative analysis of nonlinear ordinary differential equations include:

* Examination of any conserved quantities, especially in Hamiltonian systems.
* Examination of dissipative quantities (see Lyapunov function) analogous to conserved quantities.
* Linearization via Taylor expansion.
* Change of variables into something easier to study.
* Bifurcation theory.
* Perturbation methods (can be applied to algebraic equations too).


[link to en.wikipedia.org]
Thoughts Faux Fodder

User ID: 684049
United States
05/23/2009 08:43 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can fractals make sense of the quantum world?
I think in 2011 when LISA gets put up into space we'll get one step closer to finding out how this all works. :)
 Quoting: BurningBeard

ohhh i cannot wait :-)

[link to lisa.nasa.gov] for those who are curious :-)
Hope is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune--without the words,
And never stops at all....
Emily Dickinson
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 684084
United States
05/23/2009 08:50 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can fractals make sense of the quantum world?
wouldn't get to excited about "fractals"

bad art by would be artists as scientists

old info- something painters 100 years ago played with if they felt so inclined

quantum. lol
Thoughts Faux Fodder

User ID: 684049
United States
05/23/2009 08:53 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can fractals make sense of the quantum world?
David Albert, Ph.D ON Quantum Physics Consciousness Science





[youtube]
Hope is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune--without the words,
And never stops at all....
Emily Dickinson
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 684084
United States
05/23/2009 09:01 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can fractals make sense of the quantum world?
thanks for the vids
Psychic Soldier

User ID: 81537
United States
05/23/2009 09:02 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can fractals make sense of the quantum world?
Fractals, chaos, and infinity are all we are and all we have. Spiral on, fellow fractal quantum nutbars.
Another day in eternity, basking in the reflected vortex of the chaotic light and the homogeneous metallic quantum foam.
Ossie bloke
User ID: 685598
Australia
05/23/2009 09:04 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can fractals make sense of the quantum world?
Take the mathematics of fractals into account and the long-standing puzzles of lense flare and Planet X may be much easier to understand. They might even dissolve away.
Thoughts Faux Fodder

User ID: 684049
United States
05/23/2009 09:14 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can fractals make sense of the quantum world?
thanks for the vids
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 684084

hf peace

Elegant Universe by Nova, i loved this this series :-)
part one- the others are on Google as well :-)



Last Edited by Thoughts Faux Fodder on 05/23/2009 09:25 AM
Hope is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune--without the words,
And never stops at all....
Emily Dickinson
Qualia

User ID: 685610
United States
05/23/2009 09:23 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can fractals make sense of the quantum world?
No, because quantum physics is relevant to reality and makes no sense, just like relativity.


I meant "irrelevant", sorry.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 648995



648995, lol, I did initially read the word "irrelevant" in your first sentence and went back and reread what you corrected. This tells me just how deeply ingrained my thoughts are that quauntum pyshics references a closed system, "reality," and is irrelevant to the largest scope of existence in the entirety of its form. It only makes sense and is relative locally (and within the limited knowledge base of science), regardless of how seemingly big that local spatiality is.
If you spin in your chair really fast, things around here will make a lot more sense.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 683972
Australia
05/23/2009 09:26 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can fractals make sense of the quantum world?
and down the rabbit hole we go once more..


`and even if my head would go through,' thought poor Alice, `it would be of very little use without my shoulders. Oh, how I wish I could shut up like a telescope! I think I could, if I only know how to begin.'
Thoughts Faux Fodder

User ID: 684049
United States
05/23/2009 09:31 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can fractals make sense of the quantum world?
and down the rabbit hole we go once more..


`and even if my head would go through,' thought poor Alice, `it would be of very little use without my shoulders. Oh, how I wish I could shut up like a telescope! I think I could, if I only know how to begin.'
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 683972

tounge lolsign
Hope is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune--without the words,
And never stops at all....
Emily Dickinson
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 685615
United Kingdom
05/23/2009 09:33 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can fractals make sense of the quantum world?
none of you losers are smart enough to understand quantum theory. best stick to learning the cash register at wendys.
Astrid
User ID: 685618
United States
05/23/2009 09:36 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can fractals make sense of the quantum world?
Gregg Braden's New book Fractal Time gives you a formula.
Check it out
Thoughts Faux Fodder

User ID: 684049
United States
05/23/2009 09:38 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can fractals make sense of the quantum world?

well c'mon ac685615, educate us then ..waddya say....is Schrodinger's cat dead or alive???


“"The time has come," the walrus said, "to talk of many things: Of shoes and ships - and sealing wax - of cabbages and kings”.................


and who knows what the bleep we will find for answers eh? peace

Last Edited by Thoughts Faux Fodder on 05/23/2009 09:39 AM
Hope is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune--without the words,
And never stops at all....
Emily Dickinson
Thoughts Faux Fodder

User ID: 684049
United States
05/23/2009 09:41 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can fractals make sense of the quantum world?
Gregg Braden's New book Fractal Time gives you a formula.
Check it out
 Quoting: Astrid 685618

thanks! i will look for it ;-)
Hope is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune--without the words,
And never stops at all....
Emily Dickinson
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 685595
Brazil
05/23/2009 11:11 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can fractals make sense of the quantum world?
the quantum world makes sense to me. much more sense than the idiotic human world.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 649520

ANYTHING makes more sense than the idiotic human world of today...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 685595
Brazil
05/23/2009 01:29 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can fractals make sense of the quantum world?
Gregg Braden's New book Fractal Time gives you a formula.
Check it out
 Quoting: Astrid 685618

Tim Palmer puts "fractals" as some kind of non classical set of "hidden variables" to regain determinism in the fundamental Physics in general, although Quantum Theory remains probabilistic.

Maybe Gregg Braden is intuitively doing something similar starting from a more generic point of view.

I believe there is something else beyond "fractality" that must be considered, some sort of limit or constraint associated with fractals.
............................................................
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 676668
United States
05/23/2009 01:46 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can fractals make sense of the quantum world?
Fractals, chaos, and infinity are all we are and all we have. Spiral on, fellow fractal quantum nutbars.
 Quoting: Psychic Soldier

You dont know how true you are. This is order out of chaos and people dont even know.
Qualia

User ID: 685610
United States
05/23/2009 01:52 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can fractals make sense of the quantum world?
I believe there is something else beyond "fractality" that must be considered, some sort of limit or constraint associated with fractals.
............................................................

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 685595


Yes, like:

1) Fractality has something along the lines of tunnel vision.

2) Designating fractality as a definitive answer is like dissecting a whole body, finding one particular function of that wholeness, and describing the remainder exclusively by that one function. It's an incomplete study.
If you spin in your chair really fast, things around here will make a lot more sense.





GLP