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Why I believe the Bible to be invalid as a citation for any argument...

 
Anonymous Coward
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04/25/2009 09:20 AM
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Why I believe the Bible to be invalid as a citation for any argument...
New King James Version.
Anonymous Coward
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04/25/2009 09:39 AM
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Re: Why I believe the Bible to be invalid as a citation for any argument...
Is X true because God says it's true, or does God say X is true, because of something known as REASON?
The Elephant (OP)

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04/25/2009 09:43 AM
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Re: Why I believe the Bible to be invalid as a citation for any argument...
Is X true because God says it's true, or does God say X is true, because of something known as REASON?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 484854



Elaborate. I'm actually very interested in your premise.
There is no right-wing conspiracy.
There is no left-wing conspiracy.

The spectrum of "left-wing" and "right-wing" is the conspiracy.
The Elephant (OP)

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04/25/2009 09:45 AM
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Re: Why I believe the Bible to be invalid as a citation for any argument...
Is X true because God says it's true, or does God say X is true, because of something known as REASON?



Elaborate. I'm actually very interested in your premise.
 Quoting: The Elephant


Because, honestly, I don't think you have a logical one there. I would like you to prove me wrong, though.
There is no right-wing conspiracy.
There is no left-wing conspiracy.

The spectrum of "left-wing" and "right-wing" is the conspiracy.
Anonymous Coward
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04/25/2009 10:09 AM
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Re: Why I believe the Bible to be invalid as a citation for any argument...
New King James Version.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 622315


You need a better reason... one that makes sense.
D. BunkerModerator
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04/25/2009 10:11 AM

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Re: Why I believe the Bible to be invalid as a citation for any argument...
It is a reasonable reference to determine what the viewpoints of the Biblical patriarchs were. I think it depends on the subject as to whether it is relevant.
savetata


Favorite Quote - "I just fucking love outer space, it has all those planets and stars and shit." - Mister Obvious 2009
The Elephant (OP)

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04/25/2009 10:16 AM
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Re: Why I believe the Bible to be invalid as a citation for any argument...
New King James Version.


You need a better reason... one that makes sense.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 629891



Years and years of mistranslations, lies, and manipulation of words for the purpose of social control?

That makes sense, right? How does it not?
There is no right-wing conspiracy.
There is no left-wing conspiracy.

The spectrum of "left-wing" and "right-wing" is the conspiracy.
The Elephant (OP)

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04/25/2009 10:20 AM
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Re: Why I believe the Bible to be invalid as a citation for any argument...
It is a reasonable reference to determine what the viewpoints of the Biblical patriarchs were. I think it depends on the subject as to whether it is relevant.
 Quoting: D. Bunker



I agree on subject matter regarding relevance, I suppose. But do you agree that it's arguable as to whether or not the current Bible even reflects much of the patriarch's viewpoints at all?

I'm not saying that's the case, only that it's legitimately arguable. And if so, the Bible would be an unsound piece of evidence for any conclusion referring to those patriarchs.
There is no right-wing conspiracy.
There is no left-wing conspiracy.

The spectrum of "left-wing" and "right-wing" is the conspiracy.
D. BunkerModerator
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04/25/2009 10:25 AM

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Re: Why I believe the Bible to be invalid as a citation for any argument...
It is a reasonable reference to determine what the viewpoints of the Biblical patriarchs were. I think it depends on the subject as to whether it is relevant.



I agree on subject matter regarding relevance, I suppose. But do you agree that it's arguable as to whether or not the current Bible even reflects much of the patriarch's viewpoints at all?

I'm not saying that's the case, only that it's legitimately arguable. And if so, the Bible would be an unsound piece of evidence for any conclusion referring to those patriarchs.
 Quoting: The Elephant


It simply is what it is. I think logically if one believes there to be a God then the bible is not a hard task for him. If one believes it is authored by man without this aid, then it would likely have evolved over the years for a variety of reasons.

The bottom line is, it is a book that depicts a particular God and several mens perceptions of him, his word, his purpose etc. It is in how you choose to receive it that the reality is determined. For me it is not as complex as many make it.

Does this make sense?
savetata


Favorite Quote - "I just fucking love outer space, it has all those planets and stars and shit." - Mister Obvious 2009
The Elephant (OP)

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04/25/2009 10:31 AM
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Re: Why I believe the Bible to be invalid as a citation for any argument...
It is a reasonable reference to determine what the viewpoints of the Biblical patriarchs were. I think it depends on the subject as to whether it is relevant.



I agree on subject matter regarding relevance, I suppose. But do you agree that it's arguable as to whether or not the current Bible even reflects much of the patriarch's viewpoints at all?

I'm not saying that's the case, only that it's legitimately arguable. And if so, the Bible would be an unsound piece of evidence for any conclusion referring to those patriarchs.


It simply is what it is. I think logically if one believes there to be a God then the bible is not a hard task for him. If one believes it is authored by man without this aid, then it would likely have evolved over the years for a variety of reasons.

The bottom line is, it is a book that depicts a particular God and several mens perceptions of him, his word, his purpose etc. It is in how you choose to receive it that the reality is determined. For me it is not as complex as many make it.

Does this make sense?
 Quoting: D. Bunker



Very much so. That's a fantastic viewpoint and I thank you for sharing it with me so peacefully, unlike nearly every other person I try to get information from.
There is no right-wing conspiracy.
There is no left-wing conspiracy.

The spectrum of "left-wing" and "right-wing" is the conspiracy.
D. BunkerModerator
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04/25/2009 10:36 AM

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Re: Why I believe the Bible to be invalid as a citation for any argument...
Very much so. That's a fantastic viewpoint and I thank you for sharing it with me so peacefully, unlike nearly every other person I try to get information from.
 Quoting: The Elephant


I am not a very religious person, but I do adhere to what I perceive to be the moral law and ethics of the biblical text.

Given this, if we are trying to arrive at a conclusion that may have moral underpinnings or ethical considerations, a biblical perspective would be appropriate for those who follow its guidance such s myself.

It seems that some would use it to determine 'where to park their car' and this is a frustrating distraction at times if my analogy is a good one.
savetata


Favorite Quote - "I just fucking love outer space, it has all those planets and stars and shit." - Mister Obvious 2009
The Elephant (OP)

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04/25/2009 10:41 AM
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Re: Why I believe the Bible to be invalid as a citation for any argument...
Very much so. That's a fantastic viewpoint and I thank you for sharing it with me so peacefully, unlike nearly every other person I try to get information from.


I am not a very religious person, but I do adhere to what I perceive to be the moral law and ethics of the biblical text.

Given this, if we are trying to arrive at a conclusion that may have moral underpinnings or ethical considerations, a biblical perspective would be appropriate for those who follow its guidance such s myself.

It seems that some would use it to determine 'where to park their car' and this is a frustrating distraction at times if my analogy is a good one.
 Quoting: D. Bunker



Heh, I like the analogy. Though, if I may add to it in a different fashion, quite a few people end up using it primarily to tell others where to park their cars.

I am very happily surprised that I can agree with you regarding everything you have said. The Bible has many beautiful passages on morality, my favorite being the "Sermon on the Mount." I don't consider myself to be a Christian by any means at all, but I find myself reading that section of Matthew every single day.
There is no right-wing conspiracy.
There is no left-wing conspiracy.

The spectrum of "left-wing" and "right-wing" is the conspiracy.
Anonymous Coward
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04/25/2009 10:45 AM
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Re: Why I believe the Bible to be invalid as a citation for any argument...
New King James Version.


You need a better reason... one that makes sense.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 629891

You forget where you are chuckle
Anonymous Coward
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04/25/2009 10:47 AM
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Re: Why I believe the Bible to be invalid as a citation for any argument...
Is X true because God says it's true, or does God say X is true, because of something known as REASON?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 484854


hey asswhipe, the known as reason was established by someone, you turd. no difference fuckker.
The Elephant (OP)

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04/25/2009 10:47 AM
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Re: Why I believe the Bible to be invalid as a citation for any argument...
New King James Version.


You need a better reason... one that makes sense.

You forget where you are chuckle
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 660574



May I hear your opinion on why it doesn't makes sense?
There is no right-wing conspiracy.
There is no left-wing conspiracy.

The spectrum of "left-wing" and "right-wing" is the conspiracy.
The Elephant (OP)

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04/25/2009 10:48 AM
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Re: Why I believe the Bible to be invalid as a citation for any argument...
Let's keep this as peaceful as possible, guys. I'd like this to be a conversation and mutual learning experience, not a mass raising of BS flags.

Thanks, all :)
There is no right-wing conspiracy.
There is no left-wing conspiracy.

The spectrum of "left-wing" and "right-wing" is the conspiracy.
Anonymous Coward
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04/25/2009 10:50 AM
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Re: Why I believe the Bible to be invalid as a citation for any argument...
New King James Version.


You need a better reason... one that makes sense.

You forget where you are chuckle
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 660574


I did not really forget. I just have trouble thinking in the irrational box.
D. BunkerModerator
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04/25/2009 10:51 AM

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Re: Why I believe the Bible to be invalid as a citation for any argument...
Heh, I like the analogy. Though, if I may add to it in a different fashion, quite a few people end up using it primarily to tell others where to park their cars.

I am very happily surprised that I can agree with you regarding everything you have said. The Bible has many beautiful passages on morality, my favorite being the "Sermon on the Mount." I don't consider myself to be a Christian by any means at all, but I find myself reading that section of Matthew every single day.
 Quoting: The Elephant


I like the alteration above.

I think as with any book, one should look for what they can learn from it. There is a reason it has existed for so long, but I could say this for a great deal of literature.
savetata


Favorite Quote - "I just fucking love outer space, it has all those planets and stars and shit." - Mister Obvious 2009
The Truth
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04/25/2009 10:52 AM
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Re: Why I believe the Bible to be invalid as a citation for any argument...
Philosophers that utter nonsense. Read Job and if you have understanding you will know how far man gets trying to reason any matter.

Besides, what a BS statement to make. Just another snake trying to debunk scripture.

All of you who try this always fail. Scripture has endured for thousands of years despite the many souls that have tried to destroy it. You will come and go, and guess what? Scripture will remain.

So reason that. LOL

s226
Anonymous Coward
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04/25/2009 10:52 AM
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Re: Why I believe the Bible to be invalid as a citation for any argument...
New King James Version.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 622315


Deuteronomy 8:

11Beware that you do not forget the Lord your God by not keeping His commandments, His precepts, and His statutes which I command you today,

12Lest when you have eaten and are full, and have built goodly houses and live in them,

13And when your herds and flocks multiply and your silver and gold is multiplied and all you have is multiplied,

14Then your [minds and] hearts be lifted up and you forget the Lord your God, Who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage,

15Who led you through the great and terrible wilderness, with its fiery serpents and scorpions and thirsty ground where there was no water, but Who brought you forth water out of the flinty rock,

16Who fed you in the wilderness with manna, which your fathers did not know, that He might humble you and test you, to do you good in the end.

17And beware lest you say in your [mind and] heart, My power and the might of my hand have gotten me this wealth.

18But you shall [earnestly] remember the Lord your God, for it is He Who gives you power to get wealth, that He may establish His covenant which He swore to your fathers, as it is this day.

19And if you forget the Lord your God and walk after other gods and serve them and worship them, I testify against you this day that you shall surely perish.

20Like the nations which the Lord makes to perish before you, so shall you perish, because you would not obey the voice of the Lord your God.
The Elephant (OP)

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04/25/2009 10:54 AM
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Re: Why I believe the Bible to be invalid as a citation for any argument...
Heh, I like the analogy. Though, if I may add to it in a different fashion, quite a few people end up using it primarily to tell others where to park their cars.

I am very happily surprised that I can agree with you regarding everything you have said. The Bible has many beautiful passages on morality, my favorite being the "Sermon on the Mount." I don't consider myself to be a Christian by any means at all, but I find myself reading that section of Matthew every single day.


I like the alteration above.

I think as with any book, one should look for what they can learn from it. There is a reason it has existed for so long, but I could say this for a great deal of literature.
 Quoting: D. Bunker



A good point none the less.
There is no right-wing conspiracy.
There is no left-wing conspiracy.

The spectrum of "left-wing" and "right-wing" is the conspiracy.
Anonymous Coward
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04/25/2009 11:01 AM
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Re: Why I believe the Bible to be invalid as a citation for any argument...
New King James Version.


Deuteronomy 8:

11Beware that you do not forget the Lord your God by not keeping His commandments, His precepts, and His statutes which I command you today,

12Lest when you have eaten and are full, and have built goodly houses and live in them,

13And when your herds and flocks multiply and your silver and gold is multiplied and all you have is multiplied,

14Then your [minds and] hearts be lifted up and you forget the Lord your God, Who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage,

15Who led you through the great and terrible wilderness, with its fiery serpents and scorpions and thirsty ground where there was no water, but Who brought you forth water out of the flinty rock,

16Who fed you in the wilderness with manna, which your fathers did not know, that He might humble you and test you, to do you good in the end.

17And beware lest you say in your [mind and] heart, My power and the might of my hand have gotten me this wealth.

18But you shall [earnestly] remember the Lord your God, for it is He Who gives you power to get wealth, that He may establish His covenant which He swore to your fathers, as it is this day.

19And if you forget the Lord your God and walk after other gods and serve them and worship them, I testify against you this day that you shall surely perish.

20Like the nations which the Lord makes to perish before you, so shall you perish, because you would not obey the voice of the Lord your God.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 602429

Words to a certain people at a certain time in the past. Sometimes the words have an enduring message, but often it is more like a history of something in the past. Taken out of the historical context, many false teachings have come from the Bible. There are many truths that we can live by today, but some of the Bible is a record of what was said and done in the past.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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04/25/2009 11:25 AM
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Re: Why I believe the Bible to be invalid as a citation for any argument...
Philosophers that utter nonsense.
 Quoting: The Truth 663058


Much appreciated.

So reason that. LOL
 Quoting: The Truth 663058


Okay, you got it.

Besides, what a BS statement to make.
 Quoting: The Truth 663058


Nearly everyone who has posted on this thread has said the exact same statement, without providing legitimate and logical premises to support it. You are no different, by labeling my statement as such a fallacy while you maintain no argument of your own.

Read Job and if you have understanding you will know how far man gets trying to reason any matter.
 Quoting: The Truth 663058


First off, how is Job a credible source? Also, take a look around you. Through all the murders, crusades, inquisitions, burnings at the stake, and condemnation of scientific thought, it's not difficult to see how far in reverse man has been propelled by this Bible.

All of you who try this always fail.
 Quoting: The Truth 663058


There are more non-theists in the world today than ever before. To me, that is some strong statistical evidence that your statement is very much incorrect.

Scripture has endured for thousands of years despite the many souls that have tried to destroy it.
 Quoting: The Truth 663058


But sadly, not withstanding the many souls that have succeeded in changing it to fit their own needs. Do some research on Pope Urban II, if you haven't already.

You will come and go, and guess what? Scripture will remain.
 Quoting: The Truth 663058


It will, along with all the killing that comes packaged with the manipulation of it. This is what we get for being intelligent beings, but not nearly intelligent enough.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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04/25/2009 11:29 AM
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Re: Why I believe the Bible to be invalid as a citation for any argument...
New King James Version.


Deuteronomy 8:

11Beware that you do not forget the Lord your God by not keeping His commandments, His precepts, and His statutes which I command you today,

12Lest when you have eaten and are full, and have built goodly houses and live in them,

13And when your herds and flocks multiply and your silver and gold is multiplied and all you have is multiplied,

14Then your [minds and] hearts be lifted up and you forget the Lord your God, Who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage,

15Who led you through the great and terrible wilderness, with its fiery serpents and scorpions and thirsty ground where there was no water, but Who brought you forth water out of the flinty rock,

16Who fed you in the wilderness with manna, which your fathers did not know, that He might humble you and test you, to do you good in the end.

17And beware lest you say in your [mind and] heart, My power and the might of my hand have gotten me this wealth.

18But you shall [earnestly] remember the Lord your God, for it is He Who gives you power to get wealth, that He may establish His covenant which He swore to your fathers, as it is this day.

19And if you forget the Lord your God and walk after other gods and serve them and worship them, I testify against you this day that you shall surely perish.

20Like the nations which the Lord makes to perish before you, so shall you perish, because you would not obey the voice of the Lord your God.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 602429



You can't defend a source in an argument by citing that same source. It's interesting that most of this passage refers directly to the first commandment: the only commandment God doesn't forgive if broken.
The Elephant (OP)

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04/25/2009 11:30 AM
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Re: Why I believe the Bible to be invalid as a citation for any argument...
New King James Version.


Deuteronomy 8:

11Beware that you do not forget the Lord your God by not keeping His commandments, His precepts, and His statutes which I command you today,

12Lest when you have eaten and are full, and have built goodly houses and live in them,

13And when your herds and flocks multiply and your silver and gold is multiplied and all you have is multiplied,

14Then your [minds and] hearts be lifted up and you forget the Lord your God, Who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage,

15Who led you through the great and terrible wilderness, with its fiery serpents and scorpions and thirsty ground where there was no water, but Who brought you forth water out of the flinty rock,

16Who fed you in the wilderness with manna, which your fathers did not know, that He might humble you and test you, to do you good in the end.

17And beware lest you say in your [mind and] heart, My power and the might of my hand have gotten me this wealth.

18But you shall [earnestly] remember the Lord your God, for it is He Who gives you power to get wealth, that He may establish His covenant which He swore to your fathers, as it is this day.

19And if you forget the Lord your God and walk after other gods and serve them and worship them, I testify against you this day that you shall surely perish.

20Like the nations which the Lord makes to perish before you, so shall you perish, because you would not obey the voice of the Lord your God.



You can't defend a source in an argument by citing that same source. It's interesting that most of this passage refers directly to the first commandment: the only commandment God doesn't forgive if broken.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 622315


These past two posts are me, by the way. Just in case you might not have seen the (OP) tag.
There is no right-wing conspiracy.
There is no left-wing conspiracy.

The spectrum of "left-wing" and "right-wing" is the conspiracy.
Lotus Feet

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04/25/2009 11:47 AM
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Re: Why I believe the Bible to be invalid as a citation for any argument...
It will not be long now before the bible reaches its conclusion and then there will be no further requirement for it. Apart from it being an ancient text like all other ancient texts that have value to those that are interested in the history of the teachings.

When you value everything, everything has value.

Lotus

Last Edited by Lotus Feet on 04/25/2009 11:48 AM
i love satan
D. BunkerModerator
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04/25/2009 12:07 PM

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Re: Why I believe the Bible to be invalid as a citation for any argument...
You can't defend a source in an argument by citing that same source. It's interesting that most of this passage refers directly to the first commandment: the only commandment God doesn't forgive if broken.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 622315


I do not believe people are defending the source, they are often using it to establish their point from a biblical perspective.
savetata


Favorite Quote - "I just fucking love outer space, it has all those planets and stars and shit." - Mister Obvious 2009
Anonymous Coward
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04/25/2009 04:26 PM
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Re: Why I believe the Bible to be invalid as a citation for any argument...
Why I believe the Bible to be invalid as a citation for any argument.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 622315


I'll see your belief with a belief of my own, and raise you a hunch.
Rwederfoort

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04/25/2009 04:29 PM
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Re: Why I believe the Bible to be invalid as a citation for any argument...
Listen Did Jesus had a bible?


No we all have a direct relation with GOD YHWW, why do you need a Book which was created BY Morthall Man.

see ya GOD LOVES you

Last Edited by *suspended* Rwederfoort on 04/25/2009 04:30 PM
Pastor O'Bibble
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04/25/2009 04:55 PM
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Re: Why I believe the Bible to be invalid as a citation for any argument...
Years and years of mistranslations, lies, and manipulation of words for the purpose of social control?

That makes sense, right? How does it not?
 Quoting: The Elephant


Yeah...it probably started out as recipe for sourdough bread and look what
it's devolved into ! ! !

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