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Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?

 
Anonymous Coward
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05/09/2009 06:37 PM
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Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?
Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?

[link to www.usatoday.com]

2397394 votes and still counting.
Anonymous Coward
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05/09/2009 06:40 PM
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Re: Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?
That 3% is really fucking retarded.
Anonymous Coward
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05/09/2009 06:54 PM
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Re: Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?
Like theese arms or firearms?
[link to www.houseofnames.com]
Anonymous Coward
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05/09/2009 07:56 PM
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Re: Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?
arms, military grade or higher weapons of all kinds not just hand guns and rifles. Arms means arms.

It is thought that the Supreme Court has settled this question, but some would have themselves donn those black robes and speak for only themselves.
Trench

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05/09/2009 08:13 PM
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Re: Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?
Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?

[link to www.usatoday.com]

2397394 votes and still counting.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 675501
No the Second Amendment does not confer any right it merely enumerates an already existing right..

Last Edited by Trench on 05/09/2009 08:13 PM
“The difference between combat and sport is that in combat you
bury the guy who comes in second.”

"The more skills you have,the less shit you need"

Philosophy of Liberty: [link to illuminati-order.com]

email anytime: trenchhawk@gmail.com
Evil Twin

05/09/2009 08:14 PM
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Re: Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?
Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?

[link to www.usatoday.com]

2397394 votes and still counting.
No the Second Amendment does not confer any right it merely enumerates an already existing right..
 Quoting: Trench

Yep. We have the right. The 2nd Amendment prevents the government from infringing on that right, at least, it's supposed to.
AsperGirl

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05/09/2009 08:16 PM
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Re: Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?
Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?

[link to www.usatoday.com]

2397394 votes and still counting.
No the Second Amendment does not confer any right it merely enumerates an already existing right..
 Quoting: Trench
Omega

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05/09/2009 08:16 PM
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Re: Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?
Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?

[link to www.usatoday.com]

2397394 votes and still counting.
No the Second Amendment does not confer any right it merely enumerates an already existing right..

Yep. We have the right. The 2nd Amendment prevents the government from infringing on that right, at least, it's supposed to.
 Quoting: Evil Twin


But it's not working correctly whatever should we do?

Heh. ;>)
Handguns are a skill; shotguns an art; rifles a science.
_____________________________________
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on whats for dinner.

Disarmament is the precursor to Genocide.

Better to take action now rather than chances later. Your choice.
Ricfly52

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05/09/2009 08:25 PM
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Re: Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?
Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?

[link to www.usatoday.com]

2397394 votes and still counting.
No the Second Amendment does not confer any right it merely enumerates an already existing right..

Yep. We have the right. The 2nd Amendment prevents the government from infringing on that right, at least, it's supposed to.
 Quoting: Evil Twin



In which the current administration is doing every back door sculldugery it can, to circumvent anyone being able to pinpoint the fact, that they are in fact, infringing on our second admendment rights!

Last Edited by Ricfly52 on 05/09/2009 08:26 PM
Fishing and skiing keeps me a little sane.
Phydeau

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05/09/2009 08:30 PM
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Re: Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?
But it's not working correctly whatever should we do?

Heh. ;>)
 Quoting: Omega



You already know, brother.

But for the cheap seats, I'll take a line from our beloved Declaration of Independence:

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

Last Edited by Sir Phydeau on 05/09/2009 08:30 PM
"When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" — John M. Keynes
"The way to see by [blind] faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
The Self Defining Hebrew System: [link to www.thechronicleproject.org]
Real men keep Torah.
Knighted into the Army of Yahuwah on 10-9-10.

Avinu shebashamayim, yitkadesh shimkha. Tavo malkhutekha ye'aseh r'tzonekha ba'aretz ka'asher na'asah vashamayimTen-lanu haiyom lechem chukeinu. u'selach-lanu et-ashmateinu ka'asher solechim anachnu la'asher ashmu lanu. Ve'al-tevieinu lidei massah, ki im-hatsileinu min-hara. Ki lekha ha-mamlakha vehagevurah veha-tiferet l'olemei olamim. Amen.
Joqui

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05/09/2009 08:31 PM

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Re: Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?
In case you missed it, the SCOTUS already anwered that last year.

Last Edited by Joqui on 05/09/2009 08:32 PM
Anonymous Coward
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05/09/2009 08:40 PM
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Re: Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?
No, it gives them the right to bear children.
Omega

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05/09/2009 08:42 PM
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Re: Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?
In case you missed it, the SCOTUS already anwered that last year.
 Quoting: Joqui


Barely, and not to my satisfaction.


Repeal the gun control acts of what was it, 1934 and 1968 and then we'll talk.
Handguns are a skill; shotguns an art; rifles a science.
_____________________________________
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on whats for dinner.

Disarmament is the precursor to Genocide.

Better to take action now rather than chances later. Your choice.
The Jurist

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05/09/2009 08:42 PM
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Re: Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?
I wrote this up on this poll at this thread a few months ago Thread: VOTE: Save your 2nd Amendment Rights

HERE IS THE CONTENT OF THE THREAD/POST

Please read this whole thing carefully:

Video collage on gun rights: [link to www.pacinlaw.org]

-----

Vote in the USA Today poll - click on the link below.

The Question is: Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?

Vote here: [link to www.usatoday.com]


That is a loaded question.

Under the CURRENT constitutional system the 2nd Amendment does provide people the right to bear arms, i.e. a government privilege.

Under the ORIGINAL constitutional system the 2nd Amendment protected the right for people to bear arms, i.e. a natural right.

You have to understand law and note the court decisions pre and post 14th Amendment to understand the above noted.

They should have stated: Which 2nd Amendment gives individuals the right to bear arms? But that would let the scam out of the bag.

<><><>

Almost a million people (US persons, aka citizens of the United States or US citizens) have voted in this poll and most all have answered like good US Slaves with government privileges. You guessed it! Close to 98 percent of those who voted understand that the Constitution provides them their rights, not God.

Hey America, is God out there anywhere?

This is a poll to collect data to see if people are ready to have their gun privileges taken away from this governmental system.

It looks like Americans are ready.

My advice: DO NOT VOTE IN THIS POLL! If you do, put UNDECIDED, if anything.

And remember: God is not a respecter of persons.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Know the evil of the 14th Amendment:

[link to www.pacinlaw.org]

[link to www.redamendment.net]

Know the evil of this governmental system:

[link to www.notmygovernment.us]


Please copy and send this to everyone you know, as it is time for REAL change.

Have a nice New World Order day!

hiding

Last Edited by The Jurist on 05/09/2009 08:44 PM
`
(Be) Divide(ed) and (be) Conquer(ed)...

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~There is Tranquility in Ignorance, but Servitude is its Partner. —me
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:damned: Doom is optional. There is good news abounds.
Evil Twin

05/09/2009 08:51 PM
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Re: Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?
In case you missed it, the SCOTUS already anwered that last year.


Barely, and not to my satisfaction.


Repeal the gun control acts of what was it, 1934 and 1968 and then we'll talk.
 Quoting: Omega

Indeed....National Firearms Act of 1934, and Gun Control Act of 1968, plus the restrictions included in the Omnibus Crime Control Act of 1986.
twistedfugger
I got nuthin

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05/09/2009 08:55 PM
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Re: Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?
I hate this argument.

Anyone with a pulse should realize the founders intent if they have bothered to read history.

Yes. We have the right to bear arms.

Any interpretation to the contrary is just spin.
Billy Bones
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05/09/2009 09:00 PM
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Re: Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?
I hate this argument.

Anyone with a pulse should realize the founders intent if they have bothered to read history.

Yes. We have the right to bear arms.

Any interpretation to the contrary is just spin.
 Quoting: twistedfugger


Spin or bullshit, and I don't have time for either.
Duncan Kunz

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05/09/2009 09:06 PM
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Re: Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?
Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?

[link to www.usatoday.com]

2397394 votes and still counting.
No the Second Amendment does not confer any right it merely enumerates an already existing right..
 Quoting: Trench

Excellent point, Mr. Trench. If the government granted us that right, they could argue that they could take it away as well...

And of course they can't.

But somehow I don't think the four percent who voted "no" on the USA Today poll meant that LOL!
Where's the EVIDENCE, Jim?
AsperGirl

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05/09/2009 09:28 PM
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Re: Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?
Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?

[link to www.usatoday.com]

2397394 votes and still counting.
No the Second Amendment does not confer any right it merely enumerates an already existing right..

Yep. We have the right. The 2nd Amendment prevents the government from infringing on that right, at least, it's supposed to.
 Quoting: Evil Twin

The OP's question was whether the 2nd Amendment confers the right. It doesn't confer any rights, but enumerates an existing right.

If it sounds like splitting hairs, it is. But it makes a difference when judges try to interpret some of the angles of private gun ownership.

If the 2nd Amendment creates the right, then the accompanying language can be interpreted as putting conditions on the right (e.g. the right only exists for arms used for militias). If the 2nd Amendment enumerates an existing (natural) right, then says the Gov't can infringe on it, then the other language can be seen as merely explanatory (e.g. stating that the reason for preventing gov't infringement is that people need to form militias).
Enigma

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05/09/2009 09:37 PM
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Re: Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?
does the second amendment guarantee you the right to purchase ammunition for that firearm at a reasonable price?

does it guarantee you the right to buy ammunition>???

a rifle widout boolits is worse than a club... rather have a good buford pusser hickory stick than a gun widout ammo...

they will NOT try and control the guns... but you can BET MONEY they will do something to the ammo...

well regulated and all that...
Anonymous Coward
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05/09/2009 09:48 PM
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Re: Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?
Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?

[link to www.usatoday.com]

2397394 votes and still counting.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 675501


Fuck, I feel sorry for the bears if does.
Billy Bones
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05/09/2009 10:08 PM
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Re: Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?
Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?

[link to www.usatoday.com]

2397394 votes and still counting.
No the Second Amendment does not confer any right it merely enumerates an already existing right..

Yep. We have the right. The 2nd Amendment prevents the government from infringing on that right, at least, it's supposed to.

The OP's question was whether the 2nd Amendment confers the right. It doesn't confer any rights, but enumerates an existing right.

If it sounds like splitting hairs, it is. But it makes a difference when judges try to interpret some of the angles of private gun ownership.

 Quoting: AsperGirl


Shouldn't make difference..

The judges should and do know that. The problem is the general populace doesnt't know it, and the judges are too busy trying to figure out a way around it. That's why they call them activist Judges.
The Jurist

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05/09/2009 10:13 PM
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Re: Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?
I hate this argument.

Anyone with a pulse should realize the founders intent if they have bothered to read history.

Yes. We have the right to bear arms.

Any interpretation to the contrary is just spin.
 Quoting: twistedfugger

No it is not... It is law.

See this thread that contains information on this natural right being transfered to government as a privilege.
Court comes right out and says it: Thread: 9th Circuit Incorporates 2nd Amendment
_______

Last Edited by The Jurist on 05/09/2009 10:13 PM
`
(Be) Divide(ed) and (be) Conquer(ed)...

Don’t listen to what they say, watch what they do.

~There is Tranquility in Ignorance, but Servitude is its Partner. —me
~What luck for Rulers that Men do not Think. —Adolf Hitler

:damned: Doom is optional. There is good news abounds.
Anonymous Coward
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05/09/2009 10:15 PM
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Re: Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?
does the second amendment guarantee you the right to purchase ammunition for that firearm at a reasonable price?

does it guarantee you the right to buy ammunition>???

a rifle widout boolits is worse than a club... rather have a good buford pusser hickory stick than a gun widout ammo...

they will NOT try and control the guns... but you can BET MONEY they will do something to the ammo...

well regulated and all that...
 Quoting: Enigma



Yea, I can see your point...but it looks to me that this will be multifaceted: Your point and possibly this treaty, if they can pass it with a 2/3 vote in congress:

Guys, in all honesty, I can say that I've had a belly full...I won't be turning in any damn thing. Except my ammo.

I'm tired of being a government bitch.



[link to gunowners.org]

Gun Owners of America
April 25, 2009

Remember CANDIDATE Barack Obama? The guy who “wasn’t going to take away our guns”?

Well, guess what?

Less than 100 days into his administration, he’s never met a gun he didn’t hate.

A week ago, Obama went to Mexico, whined about the United States, and bemoaned (before the whole world) the fact that he didn’t have the political power to take away our semi-automatics. Nevertheless, that didn’t keep him from pushing additional restrictions on American gun owners.

It’s called the Inter-American Convention Against Illicit Manufacturing of and Trafficking in Firearms, Ammunition, Explosives, and Other Related Materials. To be sure, this imponderable title masks a really nasty piece of work.

First of all, when the treaty purports to ban the “illicit” manufacture of firearms, what does that mean?

1. “Illicit manufacturing” of firearms is defined as “assembly of firearms [or] ammunition … without a license….”

Hence, reloading ammunition — or putting together a lawful firearm from a kit — is clearly “illicit manufacturing.”

Modifying a firearm in any way would surely be “illicit manufacturing.” And, while it would be a stretch, assembling a firearm after cleaning it could, in any plain reading of the words, come within the screwy definition of “illicit manufacturing.”

2. “Firearm” has a similarly questionable definition.

“[A]ny other weapon” is a “firearm,” according to the treaty — and the term “weapon” is nowhere defined.

So, is a BB gun a “firearm”? Probably.

A toy gun? Possibly.

A pistol grip or firing pin? Probably. And who knows what else.

If these provisions (and others) become the law of the land, the Obama administration could have a heyday in enforcing them. Consider some of the other provisions in the treaty:

* Banning reloading. In Article IV of the treaty, countries commit to adopting “necessary legislative or other measures” to criminalize illicit manufacturing and trafficking in firearms.

Remember that “illicit manufacturing” includes reloading and modifying or assembling a firearm in any way. This would mean that the Obama administration could promulgate regulations banning reloading on the basis of this treaty — just as it is currently circumventing Congress to write legislation taxing greenhouse gases.

* Banning gun clubs. Article IV goes on to state that the criminalized acts should include “association or conspiracy” in connection with said offenses — which is arguably a term broad enough to allow, by regulation, the criminalization of entire pro-gun organizations or gun clubs, based on the facilities which they provide their membership.

* A d v e r t i s e m e n t
* efoods

* Extraditing US gun dealers. Article V requires each party to “adopt such measures as may be necessary to establish its jurisdiction over the offenses it has established in accordance with this Convention” under a variety of circumstances.

We know that Mexico is blaming U.S. gun dealers for the fact that its streets are flowing with blood. And we know it is possible for Mexico to define offenses “committed in its territory” in a very broad way. And we know that we have an extradition obligation under Article XIX of the proposed treaty. So we know that Mexico could try to use the treaty to demand to extradition of American gun dealers.

Under Article XXIX, if Mexico demands the extradition of a lawful American gun dealer, the U.S. would be required to resolve the dispute through “other means of peaceful settlement.”

Does anyone want to risk twenty years in a sweltering Mexican jail on the proposition that the Obama administration would apply this provision in a pro-gun manner?

* Microstamping. Article VI requires “appropriate markings” on firearms. And, it is not inconceivable that this provision could be used to require microstamping of firearms and/or ammunition — a requirement which is clearly intended to impose specifications which are not technologically possible or which are possible only at a prohibitively expensive cost.

* Gun registration. Article XI requires the maintenance of any records, for a “reasonable time,” that the government determines to be necessary to trace firearms. This provision would almost certainly repeal portions of McClure-Volkmer and could arguably be used to require a national registry or database.

ACTION: Write your Senators and urge them to oppose the Inter-American Convention Against Illicit Manufacturing of and Trafficking in Firearms, Ammunition, Explosives, and Other Related Materials.

Please use the Gun Owners Legislative Action Center to send your Senators the pre-written e-mail message below.

—– Pre-written letter —–

Dear Senator:

I am urging you, in the strongest terms, to oppose the Inter-American Convention Against Illicit Manufacturing of and Trafficking in Firearms, Ammunition, Explosives, and Other Related Materials.

This anti-gun treaty was written by international bureaucrats who are either stupid or virulently anti-gun — or both.

This treaty could very well ban the ability to reload ammunition, to put new stocks on rifles lawfully owned by American citizens, and, possibly, even ban BB guns!

There are too many problems with this treaty to mention them all in this letter. The rest can be read on the website of Gun Owners of America at:

[link to www.gunowners.org]

Please do not tell me the treaty has not yet been abused in this way by the bevy of Third World countries which have signed it. We do not expect the real ramifications of the treaty to become clear until the big prize — the U.S. — has stepped into the trap.

For all of these reasons, I must insist that you oppose ratification of the treaty.

Sincerely,
AsperGirl

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05/09/2009 10:23 PM
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Re: Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?
I hate this argument.

Anyone with a pulse should realize the founders intent if they have bothered to read history.

Yes. We have the right to bear arms.

Any interpretation to the contrary is just spin.

No it is not... It is law.

See this thread that contains information on this natural right being transfered to government as a privilege.
Court comes right out and says it: Thread: 9th Circuit Incorporates 2nd Amendment
_______
 Quoting: The Jurist

"We are similarly barred from considering incorporation
through the Privileges or Immunities Clause. The Clause provides
that “[n]o State shall make or enforce any law which
shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States.” U.S. Const. amend. XIV, § 1. Under the
Slaughter-House Cases, 83 U.S. (16 Wall.) 36 (1873), this
language protects only those rights that derive from United
States citizenship, but not those general civil rights independent
of the Republic’s existence, see id. at 74-75.5 The former
include only rights the Federal Constitution grants or the
national government enables, but not those preexisting rights
the Bill of Rights merely protects from federal invasion. Id.
at 76-80. The Second Amendment protects a right that predates
the Constitution; therefore, the Constitution did not
grant it. See, e.g., Heller, 128 S. Ct. at 2797
(“t has always
been widely understood that the Second Amendment, like the
First and Fourth Amendments, codified a pre-existing right.
”).
It necessarily follows that the Privileges or Immunities Clause
did not protect the right to keep and bear arms because it was
not a right of citizens of the United States. See Cruikshank,
92 U.S. at 553; cf. Presser, 116 U.S. at 266-67 (holding that
the “right to associate with others as a military company” is
not a privilege of citizens of the United States)."
Anonymous Coward
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05/09/2009 11:32 PM
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Re: Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?
Yeah, I agree the 3 percent are idiots, and I'm against guns. I think that amendment says what it is. The only way to change it is for congress to amend the constitution. I don't think TPTB would accept the argument that you still have the right without the amendment. So, as long as there's a valid second amendment that itself isn't amended, you can keep you guns.
Anonymous Coward
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05/09/2009 11:35 PM
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Re: Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?
But it's not working correctly whatever should we do?

 Quoting: Omega


Nuke Iran and China, and then invade Russia.
Evil Twin

05/09/2009 11:35 PM
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Re: Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?
Yeah, I agree the 3 percent are idiots, and I'm against guns. I think that amendment says what it is. The only way to change it is for congress to amend the constitution. I don't think TPTB would accept the argument that you still have the right without the amendment. So, as long as there's a valid second amendment that itself isn't amended, you can keep you guns.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 664004

Well, I can keep my guns regardless of any amendment. If TPTB decide that makes me a criminal, then that will just make me dangerous to them.

Last Edited by Evil Twin on 05/09/2009 11:36 PM
Billy Bones
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05/09/2009 11:42 PM
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Re: Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?
Yeah, I agree the 3 percent are idiots, and I'm against guns. I think that amendment says what it is. The only way to change it is for congress to amend the constitution. I don't think TPTB would accept the argument that you still have the right without the amendment. So, as long as there's a valid second amendment that itself isn't amended, you can keep you guns.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 664004


Why should the second amendmant be amended? You think it should be?

The 3% may be perceived as idiots, to you, right now...

Who are you again...and what the fuck do you know?
Billy Bones
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05/09/2009 11:42 PM
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Re: Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?
Yeah, I agree the 3 percent are idiots, and I'm against guns. I think that amendment says what it is. The only way to change it is for congress to amend the constitution. I don't think TPTB would accept the argument that you still have the right without the amendment. So, as long as there's a valid second amendment that itself isn't amended, you can keep you guns.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 664004


Why should the second amendmant be amended? You think it should be?

The 3% may be perceived as idiots, to you, right now...

Who are you again...and what the fuck do you know?
14WORDS

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05/09/2009 11:46 PM
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Re: Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?
God gives me the right to be armed.
The 2A is just [supposed to] keep anyone from stomping on that right.
And if they do, refer to the 2A.
"There is no firm reason to anticipate that the intellectual capacities of peoples geographically separated in their evolution should prove to have evolved identically. Our wanting to reserve equal powers of reason as some universal heritage of humanity will not be enough to make it so." -- Nobel Prize-winner James Watson

"The war is coming to the streets of America and if you are not keeping and bearing and practicing with your arms then you will be helpless and you will be the victim of evil." - Ted Nugent

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." -Unknown