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Babylon was in Peru

 
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05/16/2009 07:46 AM
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Babylon was in Peru
The following information deals with a conversation I had with Jan Peter de Jong and Jesus Gamarra in Graham Hancock forum related to Peruvian Alfredo Gamarra theories (Jesus' dad):


Babylon the Great is called Aram Naharaim, the city between 2 rivers. The modern Babylon has the Eufratis going through it's center, and the Tigris more than a 100 km. away, so the city is not exactly between the 2 rivers. Cusco in the past, was located between 2 rivers, Saphi and Choquechaca. Another description of the Tower and the City indicate that they were connected with tunnels. In Cusco there are many legends of the tunnels, the most famous one that starts by the Chincana grande in Sacsayhuaman and ends in Koricancha, see also:
[link to www.grahamhancock.com]

In the tablets of Marduk is written that Etemenanki will stand firm (upright)for eternity. This is the case for Sacsayhuaman till now.
Fernando de Montesinos in the 16th century, already wrote that the Incas were descendants from Ophir.

Ruth and Hyatt Verril, in their book 'AMERICA'S ANCIENT CIVILIZATIONS', wrote about the measures that were using the Incas, comparing them with sacred measures in the Bible, coming to the conclusion that the garden of Eden must have been in Peru.

The 6th dynasty of Sumerian Kings, mentioned in scrolls of the Dead Sea, the ones that reigned hundreds of years, had Quechua names:
Arwi, Palakinatin, Nagislisma, Ch'ete. Gene Savoy discovered early, pre- semitic, hierogliefs, in Chachapoyas, Peru. And came to the conclusion that Ophir was in Peru.

Also there are many similarities of the early Chinese culture in the North of Peru, so the Chinese might have come from there.

The present article is based on the Theory and the investigations of Alfredo Gamarra C., whose opinion is specifically intended to demonstrate 'the Historical Veracity of the Sacred Scripts'. We, the authors of this article, Jesus B. Gamarra (the son of Alfredo) and Jan Peter de Jong, believe that Alfredo Gamarra has produced some serious and important research, offering Humanity coherent answers on it's currently unknown origins. In this particular case with regard to the first language that was spoken.

Why do we think that a first language ever existed?
Some thirty years ago, Philologist and Linguists thought that multiforms of languages existed, that is to say, they argued that languages developed parallel to the number of cultures that came up. But many diverse languages in distant and opposed continents of our planet have words that are pronounced in an identical or similar way, and also have the same meaning, there are numerous examples of this. This is undeniablely verifiable, and makes it reasonable to propose a new scientific concept in which the existance of a 'parent' singular original language, from which is derived the whole diversity of languages that are spoken throughout the world today. However, this already was established with anticipation by the Bible, in Genesis 11 vers 1: 'Now the whole world had one language and a common speech'. Therefore if one follows the Biblical reference only one common Language existed until this point of the so-called 'confusion of the languages'.

How is the confusion of the languages interpreted?
Alfredo Gamarra finds that an inadequate interpretation from the texts exists. In the interpretation of Genesis 11 vers 5, it is attributed to God that he "came down to see the city and the tower that the men were building". Supposing that 'God is the Life, intelligence, and the Power that orders and regulates the Universe', it is implicit that God is everywhere, including of course being in each one of us. Thus it is an inadequate interpretation of the 'omnipresence' of God to refer to any 'coming down to see'. We believe that this derives from the inaccurate interpretation, or rather assumption, that most scientific sources imply that the Earth has been located from the initial moment of existence to the present period in the same sidereal location of the orbit of 365 days per year. It is our contention that the Earth from it's creation has had other locations in orbits closer to the Sun. As a result of which our planet, as has been postulated in Astro-physical theory, has been parted from the mass of the Sun, from where it has originally come, developing orbits of ever greater size, until being located in the present sidereal position. The same process has happened to the moon. When the manned lunar missions returned with mineral samples it could be proved that the moon has been part of the mass of the Earth.
In fact, both were part of the mass of the sun.

Further to this is a small anecdote : Alfredo Gamarra said, ten years before the moon landings, that the moon had been torn from the earth, his reason for believing this was that the Quechua word for the moon was 'Jukk'iylla, which means literally"moon torn from the earth".
It is now thought that the moon was part of the earth while the earth was forming according to the isotopes in the soil
on the moon. that was brung back by the apollo flights, it states that the earth may have been hit by a large planet, as the isotopes are the same as what in on earth here.
We, Jesus B. Gamarra (son of the author) and Jan Peter de Jong, like to present the investigations and studies of, who in life was ALFREDO A. GAMARRA. Alfredo A. Gamarra elaborated his theory in a lapse of more than 60 years, ‘guided’ by dreams since he was young. But his proposals like 40 years ago were not within the paradigm of that time.

It seems that now the time is a lot more favorable for his ideas, and as stated above, we found a lot of elements on this message board that are explained and mentioned in his theory.

'The Temple’, the very interesting message of David ‘timebanditx’, contains the following elements that are also important in Alfredo Gamarra’s theory: Orbit change, Giant People, Gravity, Chronologies, elements which, thanks to Alfredo Gamarra, we have an opinion on. For Alfredo Gamarra it was very important to proof the existence of The Divine Creation, and his main interest was ‘The scientific demonstration of the historical veracity of the sacred scriptures’. His theory is based on a concept that we call the Cosmogony of the 3 worlds, a concept that we want to explain below:

The Cosmogony of the 3 worlds.

The Cosmogony of the 3 worlds is based on the existence of a biological zone, located in our planetary system, in a position neither very proximal nor too far away from the sun, that determinates the appropriate environment for the existence of life. This biological zone includes 3 different orbits, being at the moment our planet in third, last and most distant (from the sun) orbit of the biological zone.
In his proposal Alfredo Gamarra does not accept a stable orbit of 365 days. He indicates the existence of orbits more closer to the sun, those locations of our planet made it possible that other physic laws could exist, and one can also explain, basically because of difference in gravity, different forms of life, and ways of construction, ruins, which till now have not been explained satisfactorily, among others.

The first biological orbit.

According to the ‘Andean Cosmogony of the 3 worlds', this phase is denominated the HANAN PACHA (land of the heaven above), that was located in a orbit of 225 days per year. This is reflected in the oldest calendar of the planet, well-known by archaeology as ‘La gran portada del sol (the great door of the sun) in Tiahuanaco. In this time, because of the optimal conditions of physic laws, humanity could live eternally, did not know fatigue, stature of man was about 4m.20, man was able to fly without having wings, all this because of the small amount of gravity. Man was also able to amass stone and used a molding technology, under high temperatures. Nowadays this can be recognized in monolithic structures, in which vitrification is present. In this orbit the anatomic structure of the human being was cartilaginous, as a result of the little atmospheric pressure. Giant species of animals and plants could exist. The vegetation and the climate as it is mentioned in the Bible, was paradisiacal in all the planet.

The second biological orbit.

The second biological orbit is known as URAN PACHA (land of the heaven below). It was located in an orbit of 260 days per year, as is testified by the Tzolkin calendar, attributed to the Mayas. In this orbit humanity lost it’s immortality, but was able to live for centuries, as is told by the Bible and the Dead Sea Scrolls. The anatomic quality of man was semi-cartilaginous. Their constructions in stone were of cellular expression. No longer monolithic, as in the previous orbit. Because of less gravity than in the present orbit, it was possible to transport giant stones and over great distances, as for example reflect Stonehenge, Sacsayhuaman and even the pyramids of Giza. The big megalithic stones show vitrificacion on their borders, sign of the use of a technology that permitted maximum perfection in the assembly of the pieces. Giant species could still exist, as the dinosaurs and giant plants, being possible their lifes because of little gravity.


The third biological orbit.

The third biological orbit is known as UKUN PACHA (Land of the heaven inside). Also known as the SUPAYPAYWASIN (house of the demon), or the KAYPACHA (this existence). Expressed in the present orbit of 365 days as is reflected by the sacred calendar HAAB, also related to the Mayan culture. The expressions in the constructions are cellular and are obtained by technology of hammer and chisel. The expression of life is the one that we know, men of meat and bone, by consequence of the bigger atmospheric pressure and of more gravity (1kg of pressure by cm2, that means that an adult person has to support an atmospheric pressure of 15.000 kg., determining in this way physical and mental capacities). In the begin time of this orbit existed beings like Homo sapiens and Hominids. They were the evidence of man readapting himself to the new, in unfavorable way altered, environment. Orthodox History just starts here, arguing that we come from the monkeys.

Witnesses of the cosmogony of the 3 worlds.

*Legends of giants in all cultures (see for example: [link to www.giantmyth.free-online.co.uk]
*The Bible, about man living eternally and thereafter for centuries and later only for 120 years.
*The expressions in the stones of many ruins, specially in the Inca ruins. In those ruins we can recognize always 3 different styles:
1. Monolithic, vitrified (see these pictures:
[link to www.grahamhancock.com] and [link to www.grahamhancock.com] Thanks to Santha Faiia, notice the reflection especially on the borders of the stones.
2. Megalithic, with stones perfectly fitting (like in this picture: [link to www.rutahsa.com] ),
3. Small Inca stones, not perfectly fitting ( [link to www.rutahsa.com] ).

A testimony is also, that each later style shows a respect for the previous culture ( [link to www.rutahsa.com] Uran Pacha over Hanan Pacha).

Although we find these 3 styles in greater amount in the Inca ruins, they also exist in other parts of the world, for example the mayor pyramid of Giza, being the underground chamber of the HANAN PACHA, the base of the pyramid on the North side and the Queen’s room or Serdaf of the URAN PACHA, and everything after being of the UKUN PACHA. The same we find in for example Malta, being The Main Hall of the Hypogeum of HANAN PACHA (see [link to web.infinito.it] ), and the constructions over it of URAN and UKUN PACHA. In Stonehenge we find inside of the 3! circles a vitrified stone of the HANAN PACHA ( [link to www.anthroarcheart.org] ). We can evaluate many old ruins in the rest of the world in this way.

*The 3 pyramids of Giza are each one an expression of an orbit, the biggest pyramid of the actual world, representing it’s dimensions, and the other 2 of the other 2 earlier orbits.

*Mars already passed through the biological zone; it seems that there are rests of vestiges, but the present physic laws on Mars do not permit life (maybe only in the form of bacterial life).

Important elements in actual science that can confirm the theory of Alfredo Gamarra:

*The theory of the expanding earth (see [link to www.geocities.com] ), a perfection of the theory of the floating continents, indicating the existence of previous phases of the world that were smaller. Nevertheless in this theory different orbits are not taken in account. We added this factor, which can be confirmed if we apply the principle to other planets; being bigger a planet, it is more distant from the sun. This also can be confirmed by the theory of Einstein: he established that at greater speed mass increases. Planets increase their velocity of rotation when they are more distant from the sun.

*The Thermo-luminescence method to determine antiquity ( [link to www.rlaha.ox.ac.uk] ). Method that can be used to measure materials that have been heated to at least 350°C.
Stones and vestiges that have been constructed and vitrified in HANAN PACHA and URAN PACHA, are supposed to be measurable with this method. Data already exist, indicating antiquities much older of vestiges than recognized in orthodox archeology.

*Consequences for Russian astronauts of being exposed during a long time in space to the state of ungravity: their bones softened, and the process of renovation of their cells was almost zero, so one can conclude that in space, with zero gravity, theoretically life must last longer.

*The change of orbit was suddenly, with immediate consequences for climate and life on earth: The glacials Wurm and Wisconsin, whose origins are still not exactly known, have their origin in the change from one orbit to another as Alfredo Gamarra says. La Place said they were consequence of a change of axis of the Earth; scientists of a few decades ago thought, that they were slow and progressive processes, during hundreds of million of years. This is discarded by the finding of mammoths in Siberia, who were eating vegetation of tropical flora, the immediate change is determined because the food they were consuming, was found in a not digested form.

* The disappearance of giant species, like the dinosaurs, are due to a change of orbit. The reptiles that today exist are adaptations to the new physic laws

* The species that less have been affected by change of orbit, are the marine species, because in the water the effect of change of gravity and atmospheric pressure is a lot smaller. The giant marine species (whale, sperm whale) are of cartilaginous anatomic structure, as were the human beings of the first orbit.

The theory of Alfredo Gamarra includes a lot more: having coherent answers also on the following aspects: Origin of the humanity, location of the Sacred Places of Origin, Mars, giant Monuments in general, Megaliths, vitrification, species, Location of the cradle of civilizations like: the Egyptian, Etruscan, and cultures of yellow ethnic groups, studies on the first universal language, studies of important archeological monument like the pyramids of Giza, Stonehenge, Borobudur, and Sacsayhuaman, and the location of Atlantis, to mention some of them.
the planets in time are getting more distant from the sun, with increasing mass, gravity and size, increasing also the size of the orbit (in days per year), and the velocity of rotation.

More distant from the sun means colder, causing glaciation.

In the different styles that we recognize in ruins and for example in the big pyramid of Giza, are reflected the 3 stages or orbits, being the lower, vitrificated parts of a lot of ruins the oldest part, corresponding to the first orbit where there was less gravity (and thus the stone was easier to treat with), far older than recent known cultures. Alfredo Gamarra indicated that a lot of cultures, as a sort of respect, build over the oldest constructions their monuments.
One more observation: a planet increases his rotation speed because the gravitional power of the sun has less influence when the planet is more distant from it (Einstein).
The theory says there are 3 orbits in the biological zone; before and after the biological zone there are more orbits, this happens also with other planets, in other solar systems and other universes............
We have a date that says that in 1920 John Spencer entered incognito in the monastry of Llasa, Tibet, finding some 25 sarco***os of more than 4 m. of length, some of them containing rests of humans looking like extraterrestials.

The length can also be deduced from the smallest of the 3 pyramids of Giza, being this one the representation of the first biological orbit. That normally there are no rests to be found, is because of the cartilaginous anatomic structure.
No, the quipus is not part of the documentary, but we have an interesting fact about it (for those who don't know, quipus was a communication method used by the Incas, in which they used cords with knots and different colors): The pro-dynastic cultures of Sang in China used the same method.

About your second question: Yes there are relations between Maya and Hindu it seems, Fernando LLosa Porras found all the Gods of the pre Mayas in the temple of Sechin in Peru, supposing they originally came from there. The Mayas have a lot in common with the Hindus, for example the Maya codices with the Hindu symbols, later we will give you an exact reference.

The Chacana is one of the first interpretation of the cross concept, it is the integration of 4 symbols of 3 phases, representing the cosmogony of the 3 worlds, the centre being an empty circle, permitting the orientation in the 4 corners of the world; symbol coming from the Tawantinsuyo, being a pre Inca symbol.
The real name of India is Hindi, from which come Hindu, Hindi is the same as Hinti o Inti, which in Sanskrit and American languages means Sun (Jacques de Mahieu, 'El Gran viaje del Dios Sol').

Peru in Sanskrit (and also in Guarani) means Park, Garden, Eden, Paradise.
The Easter Islands have been part of what was Atlantis, there are vestiges that indicate the same culture as in Cusco, Peru, being present in the base of the Heads (Moais), this stones are the same type of construction as in Cusco (celular, polygonal, perfectly fitting).

We dont see it as an anomaly that there are similarities, we can see it on different levels, religious symbols, construction, tipologies, language and so on.


The author of this investigation argues that the fact that the Earth has been located in orbits closer to the sun, implicated very different physical conditions to those now prevailing. That refers particularly to the Gravity Force, or 'G' as earth gravity is measured, the atmospheric pressure, another density, and therefore the existence of 'giant beings', beings relative to our current selves, and also giant animals and plants.
A.G. denominates a 'biological zone' in our solar system, located to a distance neither too close nor too distant of the Sun. Our present Humanity lives in the third and last orbit of this so called biological zone, having previously existed in two closer orbits, the first in an orbit of 225 days per year, and the second one of 260 days per year. This is testified by calendars, see "The Theory of Alfredo Gamarra"
and by the petric language of our archeological monuments, as expressed in the three major pyramids of Giza, the three concentric circles of Stonehenge, Borobudur, the Muyuc Marka, or the architectural design of Atlantis (Plato). A.G. thought that the first humanity had eternal life, living on a planet in which 'the whole of planet Earth was Paradise', located in an orbit of 225 days per year, and that the Expulsion from Eden is referring to the orbital change from that location to a sidereal position of 260 days per year, in which the first human manifestation loses its condition of immortality, and changed to a life span of several hundred years (of this there are testimonies in the Bible and the Dead Sea Scrolls, and the sixth dynasty of the Sumerian Kings). Another change happens at the time of the 'confusion of languages', when the orbit of 260 days per year changes to the present one of 365 days. The location in the actual terrestrial orbit, dates from about 20,000 years ago. The adaptation of humanity to the unfavorably altered physical circumstances dates from 13 to 12 thousand years ago. Humans had a smaller body, of muscle tissue and bone, a product of the higher gravity and atmospheric pressure in this new orbit of 365 days per year. The caverns give still pictorical testimony in the rock of this time. In the previous orbit of 260 days in place of bones was a semi-cartiliginous structure, relative to that lower gravity and atmospheric pressure.

The human being of this third and final stage of adaptation, was thought to be of Hominid-like physical appearance. This is why we believe that Darwin was prompted to make a relationship connection between early humans and other primate (ape) species. We believe that the 'confusion of language' is the period after the orbital change in which humans were readapting to the new physical conditions.

Where did the first language come from?
With the 'guided' investigations of Alfredo Gamarra we believe that we can identify vestigial archeological remains to support the early Biblical scenes, for example the Tower of Babel. He is able to demonstrate with the aid of eleven existing sciences and other types of new evidence, some irrefutable, that the 'Sacred Places of Origin', or what is known as the 'Cradle of Humanity', is located in what is now the South American continent. Specifically the central axis in Peru, including present day Bolivia, as being the 'Center of the Creation'. The exact central point being what we now know as the city of Cusco. It is in this region that A.G. locates the archeological vestiges of the Tower of Babel or Etemenanki, known as Sacsayhuaman from the Inca period, the most cyclopian construction of the planet. In this respect, we, the authors of this piece, are producing a three part television documentary which will be entitled 'Etemenanki'. It is intended to release this film at the beginning of next year. In this documentary we will be verifying all the rich, and objective, information that exists to support the conclusions mentioned above. As a result of this, in proving that the geographic location of the Biblical 'Creation' was in Peru, we can demonstrate that the ancestral 'common' language of humanity comes from this region, and that in Quechua and Aymara there are, in both pure and changed ways, many of the words that comprised the 'First Universal Human Language'.

Many people, when reading this manifesto, may think that these are less than audacious opinions. However, this is not the first time that a theory has pointed to South America as the cradle of humanity. As we can demonstrate, there are data and investigations that we believe are from sensible, just and cultured personalities, whose works in the fields of Linguistics and Philology are worthy of careful consideration, from which we can distill the Origin of the First Language. We are delighted to represent those who were, in our opinion, previously unjustly underestimated and that today we can re-evaluate the meaning of the following investigations:

Onffroy de Thoron. In the 15th century de Thoron discovers surprising similarities between the language Quechua or Runa Simi (=language of man) and the Ancient Egyptian language, positing Quechua to be the prototype of the Ancient Egyptian tongue.

The Indians known as Los Indios Campas in the Peruvian Amazon, according to the versions of Spanish and Portuguese chroniclers at the end of the 18th century, who's spoken idiom was either similar, or even identical to the Ancient Egyptian language.

V. Henry, published the book "Le Quichua est il une langue aryene?" (Is the Quechua an Aryan Language?) in Luxembourg in 1877. In this work Henry sets out to demonstrate that Quechua is, indeed, an Aryan language, containing in great amount the Ar radical, and being of solar origin, and the prototype of the languages of Europe and Asia.

Jorge Philips, an highly erudite German, as his position as Director of the Imperial Academy of Sciences of Vienna affirms, wrote a theory in 1870, not only based on linguistic investigations, but also on other corroborative proofs. He said that the Arrias or Arias, were the common basis of all the European and Indian civilizations, and came from the Americas.

Philipe Marcou published in 1924 "Utilite des comparaisons entre les langues d'Amerique et langues indoeuropeenes". Marcou, finds between languages like Quechua, Aymara and Quiche much more relationship with the Indo-European languages. So knowing these American languages, one can understand without knowing them, languages from Europe and Asia.

Fidel Vicente Lopez published in Paris, in 1871, the book "Las races aryennes de Peru" in which he deals with languages like Magyar, the Pelasgo, the Vedico and the Etruscan, coming to the conclusion that they come from ancestral languages of Peru.

Juan Moricz demonstrates, in a practical way, what is indicated by the title of his book, published in 1968: 'Origen Americano de pueblos Europeos' (American Origin of European people).

Benign Ferrario, published in 1933 the book 'La investigacion linguistica y el parentesco extra continental de la lengua Quechua' ( The linguistic investigation and the extra-continental relationship of the Quechuá language). Work that leaves without doubts the influence that has the language Quechua or Runa Simi, on Indo-European languages.

Rvdo P. Dominicio. Ambrosio Morales, member of the seminary of High Studies of the Institute Arquelogico de Cusco in 1941, published the book 'Cusco ciudad Milenaria' (Cusco, City of the Millenia). Morales discovered that the first foundation of Cusco is done by cultures previous to the Pelasgos (proto-Greeks) who spoke a mother language Hebrew, Latin, Siriaco and whose origins are in the Quechua language.

Juan de Velasco, publishes in the year 1844 his book titled 'Historia del reyno de Quito' (History of the Kingdom of Quito) in which he explains that the cradle of the Phoenicians was in Peru, as a result of being descendents of the Wankás, an ethnic group of North-Central Peru.

Pablo Patron, in his important work 'Nuevos estudios sobre las lenguas Americanas' (New Studies on the American Languages) makes special and revealing analogies, concluding that Quechua and Aymara, have the same semitic origin as the Sumerian-Asirian languages.

To continue we will make reference to the studies and investigations that tie the Quechua language with the Latin through Etruscan:

Alberto Childe, in 1927, makes an Philological analysis and provides other evidences on the cradle of the Tusci, Tuskos or Etruscans in his book 'Os Etruscos na americá' (The Etruscans in America), in which he demonstrates the abundant existence of the presence of the Etruscans in the South American continent.

Mario Gattoni Celli, published in Rome 1967, his book 'Gli Etruschi della Russia all 'America''. In which he sustains an undeniable migration, when finding the prototypes of the Etruscans in America.

Natalia Rossi de Tariffi, to this day we consider this Philological investigation the most expertised, deep and coherent, with respect to locating the mysterious cradle of the Etruscans in her work published in 1969, 'America cuarta dimension, los etruscos salieron de los Andes' ( America fourth dimension, the Etruscans left from the Andes').

We also consider it very important to know that many other investigations were made on the themes of Philology and Linguistics, but also included other aspects concerning Archeology, that indicate the American location of the Cradle of Humanity and as a consequence the First Universal Language.

Arthur Posnansky, German archeologist, who after twenty years of archeological investigation in Tiahuanaco (Bolivia), finds vestiges from the time of the human origins and publishes in 1943 his work 'Las Americas son un mundo nuevo o un mundo mas antiguo que Europa y Asia?' (The Americas are a new world or a more ancient world than Europe and Asia?)

Jacques de Mahieu, a precise, contemporary investigator, indicated that South America was the true scene of the 'Old Testament' accounts, as a result of it established that important architectural details of the gothic cathedrals of the Mediterranean, have their origins in the pre-Colombian architecture of South America. In the Seventies he published 'Drakkars en el Amazonas' (Drakkars in Amazonia) and 'El gran viaje del Dios Sol' ('The Great Voyage of the Sun God', 1976).

Gene Savoy, Dr Honoris of the University of Yale, archbishop of the 'International Community of Christ' Church, discoverer in Peru of the archeological complex of the Great Pajaten. Investigator of the origin of the Egyptians in Peru, as he indicates in his work 'Antisuyo'. In 1992 he discovers in Great Vilaya, Chachapoyas Peru, lanzones of stone with hieroglyphic writings of pre-semitic data. He is of the opinion that Peru was Ophir, the distant place where king Salomon got the fine gold to constuct the Coffer of the Alliance, webpage: [link to www.genesavoy.org]

Modern tecnology is also concurrent with the hypotheses of Alfredo Gamarra. The modern discovery made by Ing. Boliviano Ivan Guzman de Rojas, who has invented a software Atamiri with which it is possible to translate up to nine languages with one translator. Being the patron based on the languages Aymara. This important fact means for A.G. no less than the reversion of languages to their close origins in Quechua and Aymara, languages that developed in the location where the 'Creation' took place, containing varied or pure, many words of the first language. This language has to be called ARAC, that means just like Adam in Hebrew, Humanity. Because of the volume of the material as to why the first language was called Arac, this will be done in a further paper. It is also significant that Graham Hancock in his book Fingerprints of the Gods recognizes Aymara as one of the remote human antiquities, something in which we also believe, besides which it is consequent that the oldest languages are not likely to be distant from the cradle of humanity.
[link to www.ancient-mysteries-explained.com]
[link to www.ancient-mysteries-explained.com]
[link to www.ancient-mysteries-explained.com]
I skipped the part of MY own replies reaching to many similar conclusions by my own research reading about Scaling of Sauroposeidon dinosaurs and fast dinosaurs would be impossible in our gravity, changes in 02 caught in air bubbles within amber of fossilized trees; proto-Sumearian scripture found in Peru like Pokotia and Fuente Magna , quipus with Sumerian code as discovered by Gary Urton, Harvard specialist and so on.
Dragonson

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05/16/2009 07:54 AM
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Re: Babylon was in Peru
Ya know Sitchin wrote a whole book devoted to this years ago.

When Marduk was force to leave he had to go somewhere right.
It doesn't matter who I m it's who U R so ChoOse
the Stu

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05/16/2009 07:56 AM

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Re: Babylon was in Peru
The following information deals with a conversation I had with Jan Peter de Jong and Jesus Gamarra in Graham Hancock forum related to Peruvian Alfredo Gamarra theories (Jesus' dad):


Babylon the Great is called Aram Naharaim, the city between 2 rivers. The modern Babylon has the Eufratis going through it's center, and the Tigris more than a 100 km. away, so the city is not exactly between the 2 rivers. Cusco in the past, was located between 2 rivers, Saphi and Choquechaca. Another description of the Tower and the City indicate that they were connected with tunnels. In Cusco there are many legends of the tunnels, the most famous one that starts by the Chincana grande in Sacsayhuaman and ends in Koricancha, see also:
[link to www.grahamhancock.com]

In the tablets of Marduk is written that Etemenanki will stand firm (upright)for eternity. This is the case for Sacsayhuaman till now.
Fernando de Montesinos in the 16th century, already wrote that the Incas were descendants from Ophir.

Ruth and Hyatt Verril, in their book 'AMERICA'S ANCIENT CIVILIZATIONS', wrote about the measures that were using the Incas, comparing them with sacred measures in the Bible, coming to the conclusion that the garden of Eden must have been in Peru.

The 6th dynasty of Sumerian Kings, mentioned in scrolls of the Dead Sea, the ones that reigned hundreds of years, had Quechua names:
Arwi, Palakinatin, Nagislisma, Ch'ete. Gene Savoy discovered early, pre- semitic, hierogliefs, in Chachapoyas, Peru. And came to the conclusion that Ophir was in Peru.

Also there are many similarities of the early Chinese culture in the North of Peru, so the Chinese might have come from there.

The present article is based on the Theory and the investigations of Alfredo Gamarra C., whose opinion is specifically intended to demonstrate 'the Historical Veracity of the Sacred Scripts'. We, the authors of this article, Jesus B. Gamarra (the son of Alfredo) and Jan Peter de Jong, believe that Alfredo Gamarra has produced some serious and important research, offering Humanity coherent answers on it's currently unknown origins. In this particular case with regard to the first language that was spoken.

Why do we think that a first language ever existed?
Some thirty years ago, Philologist and Linguists thought that multiforms of languages existed, that is to say, they argued that languages developed parallel to the number of cultures that came up. But many diverse languages in distant and opposed continents of our planet have words that are pronounced in an identical or similar way, and also have the same meaning, there are numerous examples of this. This is undeniablely verifiable, and makes it reasonable to propose a new scientific concept in which the existance of a 'parent' singular original language, from which is derived the whole diversity of languages that are spoken throughout the world today. However, this already was established with anticipation by the Bible, in Genesis 11 vers 1: 'Now the whole world had one language and a common speech'. Therefore if one follows the Biblical reference only one common Language existed until this point of the so-called 'confusion of the languages'.

How is the confusion of the languages interpreted?
Alfredo Gamarra finds that an inadequate interpretation from the texts exists. In the interpretation of Genesis 11 vers 5, it is attributed to God that he "came down to see the city and the tower that the men were building". Supposing that 'God is the Life, intelligence, and the Power that orders and regulates the Universe', it is implicit that God is everywhere, including of course being in each one of us. Thus it is an inadequate interpretation of the 'omnipresence' of God to refer to any 'coming down to see'. We believe that this derives from the inaccurate interpretation, or rather assumption, that most scientific sources imply that the Earth has been located from the initial moment of existence to the present period in the same sidereal location of the orbit of 365 days per year. It is our contention that the Earth from it's creation has had other locations in orbits closer to the Sun. As a result of which our planet, as has been postulated in Astro-physical theory, has been parted from the mass of the Sun, from where it has originally come, developing orbits of ever greater size, until being located in the present sidereal position. The same process has happened to the moon. When the manned lunar missions returned with mineral samples it could be proved that the moon has been part of the mass of the Earth.
In fact, both were part of the mass of the sun.

Further to this is a small anecdote : Alfredo Gamarra said, ten years before the moon landings, that the moon had been torn from the earth, his reason for believing this was that the Quechua word for the moon was 'Jukk'iylla, which means literally"moon torn from the earth".
It is now thought that the moon was part of the earth while the earth was forming according to the isotopes in the soil
on the moon. that was brung back by the apollo flights, it states that the earth may have been hit by a large planet, as the isotopes are the same as what in on earth here.
We, Jesus B. Gamarra (son of the author) and Jan Peter de Jong, like to present the investigations and studies of, who in life was ALFREDO A. GAMARRA. Alfredo A. Gamarra elaborated his theory in a lapse of more than 60 years, ‘guided’ by dreams since he was young. But his proposals like 40 years ago were not within the paradigm of that time.

It seems that now the time is a lot more favorable for his ideas, and as stated above, we found a lot of elements on this message board that are explained and mentioned in his theory.

'The Temple’, the very interesting message of David ‘timebanditx’, contains the following elements that are also important in Alfredo Gamarra’s theory: Orbit change, Giant People, Gravity, Chronologies, elements which, thanks to Alfredo Gamarra, we have an opinion on. For Alfredo Gamarra it was very important to proof the existence of The Divine Creation, and his main interest was ‘The scientific demonstration of the historical veracity of the sacred scriptures’. His theory is based on a concept that we call the Cosmogony of the 3 worlds, a concept that we want to explain below:

The Cosmogony of the 3 worlds.

The Cosmogony of the 3 worlds is based on the existence of a biological zone, located in our planetary system, in a position neither very proximal nor too far away from the sun, that determinates the appropriate environment for the existence of life. This biological zone includes 3 different orbits, being at the moment our planet in third, last and most distant (from the sun) orbit of the biological zone.
In his proposal Alfredo Gamarra does not accept a stable orbit of 365 days. He indicates the existence of orbits more closer to the sun, those locations of our planet made it possible that other physic laws could exist, and one can also explain, basically because of difference in gravity, different forms of life, and ways of construction, ruins, which till now have not been explained satisfactorily, among others.

The first biological orbit.

According to the ‘Andean Cosmogony of the 3 worlds', this phase is denominated the HANAN PACHA (land of the heaven above), that was located in a orbit of 225 days per year. This is reflected in the oldest calendar of the planet, well-known by archaeology as ‘La gran portada del sol (the great door of the sun) in Tiahuanaco. In this time, because of the optimal conditions of physic laws, humanity could live eternally, did not know fatigue, stature of man was about 4m.20, man was able to fly without having wings, all this because of the small amount of gravity. Man was also able to amass stone and used a molding technology, under high temperatures. Nowadays this can be recognized in monolithic structures, in which vitrification is present. In this orbit the anatomic structure of the human being was cartilaginous, as a result of the little atmospheric pressure. Giant species of animals and plants could exist. The vegetation and the climate as it is mentioned in the Bible, was paradisiacal in all the planet.

The second biological orbit.

The second biological orbit is known as URAN PACHA (land of the heaven below). It was located in an orbit of 260 days per year, as is testified by the Tzolkin calendar, attributed to the Mayas. In this orbit humanity lost it’s immortality, but was able to live for centuries, as is told by the Bible and the Dead Sea Scrolls. The anatomic quality of man was semi-cartilaginous. Their constructions in stone were of cellular expression. No longer monolithic, as in the previous orbit. Because of less gravity than in the present orbit, it was possible to transport giant stones and over great distances, as for example reflect Stonehenge, Sacsayhuaman and even the pyramids of Giza. The big megalithic stones show vitrificacion on their borders, sign of the use of a technology that permitted maximum perfection in the assembly of the pieces. Giant species could still exist, as the dinosaurs and giant plants, being possible their lifes because of little gravity.


The third biological orbit.

The third biological orbit is known as UKUN PACHA (Land of the heaven inside). Also known as the SUPAYPAYWASIN (house of the demon), or the KAYPACHA (this existence). Expressed in the present orbit of 365 days as is reflected by the sacred calendar HAAB, also related to the Mayan culture. The expressions in the constructions are cellular and are obtained by technology of hammer and chisel. The expression of life is the one that we know, men of meat and bone, by consequence of the bigger atmospheric pressure and of more gravity (1kg of pressure by cm2, that means that an adult person has to support an atmospheric pressure of 15.000 kg., determining in this way physical and mental capacities). In the begin time of this orbit existed beings like Homo sapiens and Hominids. They were the evidence of man readapting himself to the new, in unfavorable way altered, environment. Orthodox History just starts here, arguing that we come from the monkeys.

Witnesses of the cosmogony of the 3 worlds.

*Legends of giants in all cultures (see for example: [link to www.giantmyth.free-online.co.uk]
*The Bible, about man living eternally and thereafter for centuries and later only for 120 years.
*The expressions in the stones of many ruins, specially in the Inca ruins. In those ruins we can recognize always 3 different styles:
1. Monolithic, vitrified (see these pictures:
[link to www.grahamhancock.com] and [link to www.grahamhancock.com] Thanks to Santha Faiia, notice the reflection especially on the borders of the stones.
2. Megalithic, with stones perfectly fitting (like in this picture: [link to www.rutahsa.com] ),
3. Small Inca stones, not perfectly fitting ( [link to www.rutahsa.com] ).

A testimony is also, that each later style shows a respect for the previous culture ( [link to www.rutahsa.com] Uran Pacha over Hanan Pacha).

Although we find these 3 styles in greater amount in the Inca ruins, they also exist in other parts of the world, for example the mayor pyramid of Giza, being the underground chamber of the HANAN PACHA, the base of the pyramid on the North side and the Queen’s room or Serdaf of the URAN PACHA, and everything after being of the UKUN PACHA. The same we find in for example Malta, being The Main Hall of the Hypogeum of HANAN PACHA (see [link to web.infinito.it] ), and the constructions over it of URAN and UKUN PACHA. In Stonehenge we find inside of the 3! circles a vitrified stone of the HANAN PACHA ( [link to www.anthroarcheart.org] ). We can evaluate many old ruins in the rest of the world in this way.

*The 3 pyramids of Giza are each one an expression of an orbit, the biggest pyramid of the actual world, representing it’s dimensions, and the other 2 of the other 2 earlier orbits.

*Mars already passed through the biological zone; it seems that there are rests of vestiges, but the present physic laws on Mars do not permit life (maybe only in the form of bacterial life).

Important elements in actual science that can confirm the theory of Alfredo Gamarra:

*The theory of the expanding earth (see [link to www.geocities.com] ), a perfection of the theory of the floating continents, indicating the existence of previous phases of the world that were smaller. Nevertheless in this theory different orbits are not taken in account. We added this factor, which can be confirmed if we apply the principle to other planets; being bigger a planet, it is more distant from the sun. This also can be confirmed by the theory of Einstein: he established that at greater speed mass increases. Planets increase their velocity of rotation when they are more distant from the sun.

*The Thermo-luminescence method to determine antiquity ( [link to www.rlaha.ox.ac.uk] ). Method that can be used to measure materials that have been heated to at least 350°C.
Stones and vestiges that have been constructed and vitrified in HANAN PACHA and URAN PACHA, are supposed to be measurable with this method. Data already exist, indicating antiquities much older of vestiges than recognized in orthodox archeology.

*Consequences for Russian astronauts of being exposed during a long time in space to the state of ungravity: their bones softened, and the process of renovation of their cells was almost zero, so one can conclude that in space, with zero gravity, theoretically life must last longer.

*The change of orbit was suddenly, with immediate consequences for climate and life on earth: The glacials Wurm and Wisconsin, whose origins are still not exactly known, have their origin in the change from one orbit to another as Alfredo Gamarra says. La Place said they were consequence of a change of axis of the Earth; scientists of a few decades ago thought, that they were slow and progressive processes, during hundreds of million of years. This is discarded by the finding of mammoths in Siberia, who were eating vegetation of tropical flora, the immediate change is determined because the food they were consuming, was found in a not digested form.

* The disappearance of giant species, like the dinosaurs, are due to a change of orbit. The reptiles that today exist are adaptations to the new physic laws

* The species that less have been affected by change of orbit, are the marine species, because in the water the effect of change of gravity and atmospheric pressure is a lot smaller. The giant marine species (whale, sperm whale) are of cartilaginous anatomic structure, as were the human beings of the first orbit.

The theory of Alfredo Gamarra includes a lot more: having coherent answers also on the following aspects: Origin of the humanity, location of the Sacred Places of Origin, Mars, giant Monuments in general, Megaliths, vitrification, species, Location of the cradle of civilizations like: the Egyptian, Etruscan, and cultures of yellow ethnic groups, studies on the first universal language, studies of important archeological monument like the pyramids of Giza, Stonehenge, Borobudur, and Sacsayhuaman, and the location of Atlantis, to mention some of them.
the planets in time are getting more distant from the sun, with increasing mass, gravity and size, increasing also the size of the orbit (in days per year), and the velocity of rotation.

More distant from the sun means colder, causing glaciation.

In the different styles that we recognize in ruins and for example in the big pyramid of Giza, are reflected the 3 stages or orbits, being the lower, vitrificated parts of a lot of ruins the oldest part, corresponding to the first orbit where there was less gravity (and thus the stone was easier to treat with), far older than recent known cultures. Alfredo Gamarra indicated that a lot of cultures, as a sort of respect, build over the oldest constructions their monuments.
One more observation: a planet increases his rotation speed because the gravitional power of the sun has less influence when the planet is more distant from it (Einstein).
The theory says there are 3 orbits in the biological zone; before and after the biological zone there are more orbits, this happens also with other planets, in other solar systems and other universes............
We have a date that says that in 1920 John Spencer entered incognito in the monastry of Llasa, Tibet, finding some 25 sarco***os of more than 4 m. of length, some of them containing rests of humans looking like extraterrestials.

The length can also be deduced from the smallest of the 3 pyramids of Giza, being this one the representation of the first biological orbit. That normally there are no rests to be found, is because of the cartilaginous anatomic structure.
No, the quipus is not part of the documentary, but we have an interesting fact about it (for those who don't know, quipus was a communication method used by the Incas, in which they used cords with knots and different colors): The pro-dynastic cultures of Sang in China used the same method.

About your second question: Yes there are relations between Maya and Hindu it seems, Fernando LLosa Porras found all the Gods of the pre Mayas in the temple of Sechin in Peru, supposing they originally came from there. The Mayas have a lot in common with the Hindus, for example the Maya codices with the Hindu symbols, later we will give you an exact reference.

The Chacana is one of the first interpretation of the cross concept, it is the integration of 4 symbols of 3 phases, representing the cosmogony of the 3 worlds, the centre being an empty circle, permitting the orientation in the 4 corners of the world; symbol coming from the Tawantinsuyo, being a pre Inca symbol.
The real name of India is Hindi, from which come Hindu, Hindi is the same as Hinti o Inti, which in Sanskrit and American languages means Sun (Jacques de Mahieu, 'El Gran viaje del Dios Sol').

Peru in Sanskrit (and also in Guarani) means Park, Garden, Eden, Paradise.
The Easter Islands have been part of what was Atlantis, there are vestiges that indicate the same culture as in Cusco, Peru, being present in the base of the Heads (Moais), this stones are the same type of construction as in Cusco (celular, polygonal, perfectly fitting).

We dont see it as an anomaly that there are similarities, we can see it on different levels, religious symbols, construction, tipologies, language and so on.


The author of this investigation argues that the fact that the Earth has been located in orbits closer to the sun, implicated very different physical conditions to those now prevailing. That refers particularly to the Gravity Force, or 'G' as earth gravity is measured, the atmospheric pressure, another density, and therefore the existence of 'giant beings', beings relative to our current selves, and also giant animals and plants.
A.G. denominates a 'biological zone' in our solar system, located to a distance neither too close nor too distant of the Sun. Our present Humanity lives in the third and last orbit of this so called biological zone, having previously existed in two closer orbits, the first in an orbit of 225 days per year, and the second one of 260 days per year. This is testified by calendars, see "The Theory of Alfredo Gamarra"
and by the petric language of our archeological monuments, as expressed in the three major pyramids of Giza, the three concentric circles of Stonehenge, Borobudur, the Muyuc Marka, or the architectural design of Atlantis (Plato). A.G. thought that the first humanity had eternal life, living on a planet in which 'the whole of planet Earth was Paradise', located in an orbit of 225 days per year, and that the Expulsion from Eden is referring to the orbital change from that location to a sidereal position of 260 days per year, in which the first human manifestation loses its condition of immortality, and changed to a life span of several hundred years (of this there are testimonies in the Bible and the Dead Sea Scrolls, and the sixth dynasty of the Sumerian Kings). Another change happens at the time of the 'confusion of languages', when the orbit of 260 days per year changes to the present one of 365 days. The location in the actual terrestrial orbit, dates from about 20,000 years ago. The adaptation of humanity to the unfavorably altered physical circumstances dates from 13 to 12 thousand years ago. Humans had a smaller body, of muscle tissue and bone, a product of the higher gravity and atmospheric pressure in this new orbit of 365 days per year. The caverns give still pictorical testimony in the rock of this time. In the previous orbit of 260 days in place of bones was a semi-cartiliginous structure, relative to that lower gravity and atmospheric pressure.

The human being of this third and final stage of adaptation, was thought to be of Hominid-like physical appearance. This is why we believe that Darwin was prompted to make a relationship connection between early humans and other primate (ape) species. We believe that the 'confusion of language' is the period after the orbital change in which humans were readapting to the new physical conditions.

Where did the first language come from?
With the 'guided' investigations of Alfredo Gamarra we believe that we can identify vestigial archeological remains to support the early Biblical scenes, for example the Tower of Babel. He is able to demonstrate with the aid of eleven existing sciences and other types of new evidence, some irrefutable, that the 'Sacred Places of Origin', or what is known as the 'Cradle of Humanity', is located in what is now the South American continent. Specifically the central axis in Peru, including present day Bolivia, as being the 'Center of the Creation'. The exact central point being what we now know as the city of Cusco. It is in this region that A.G. locates the archeological vestiges of the Tower of Babel or Etemenanki, known as Sacsayhuaman from the Inca period, the most cyclopian construction of the planet. In this respect, we, the authors of this piece, are producing a three part television documentary which will be entitled 'Etemenanki'. It is intended to release this film at the beginning of next year. In this documentary we will be verifying all the rich, and objective, information that exists to support the conclusions mentioned above. As a result of this, in proving that the geographic location of the Biblical 'Creation' was in Peru, we can demonstrate that the ancestral 'common' language of humanity comes from this region, and that in Quechua and Aymara there are, in both pure and changed ways, many of the words that comprised the 'First Universal Human Language'.

Many people, when reading this manifesto, may think that these are less than audacious opinions. However, this is not the first time that a theory has pointed to South America as the cradle of humanity. As we can demonstrate, there are data and investigations that we believe are from sensible, just and cultured personalities, whose works in the fields of Linguistics and Philology are worthy of careful consideration, from which we can distill the Origin of the First Language. We are delighted to represent those who were, in our opinion, previously unjustly underestimated and that today we can re-evaluate the meaning of the following investigations:

Onffroy de Thoron. In the 15th century de Thoron discovers surprising similarities between the language Quechua or Runa Simi (=language of man) and the Ancient Egyptian language, positing Quechua to be the prototype of the Ancient Egyptian tongue.

The Indians known as Los Indios Campas in the Peruvian Amazon, according to the versions of Spanish and Portuguese chroniclers at the end of the 18th century, who's spoken idiom was either similar, or even identical to the Ancient Egyptian language.

V. Henry, published the book "Le Quichua est il une langue aryene?" (Is the Quechua an Aryan Language?) in Luxembourg in 1877. In this work Henry sets out to demonstrate that Quechua is, indeed, an Aryan language, containing in great amount the Ar radical, and being of solar origin, and the prototype of the languages of Europe and Asia.

Jorge Philips, an highly erudite German, as his position as Director of the Imperial Academy of Sciences of Vienna affirms, wrote a theory in 1870, not only based on linguistic investigations, but also on other corroborative proofs. He said that the Arrias or Arias, were the common basis of all the European and Indian civilizations, and came from the Americas.

Philipe Marcou published in 1924 "Utilite des comparaisons entre les langues d'Amerique et langues indoeuropeenes". Marcou, finds between languages like Quechua, Aymara and Quiche much more relationship with the Indo-European languages. So knowing these American languages, one can understand without knowing them, languages from Europe and Asia.

Fidel Vicente Lopez published in Paris, in 1871, the book "Las races aryennes de Peru" in which he deals with languages like Magyar, the Pelasgo, the Vedico and the Etruscan, coming to the conclusion that they come from ancestral languages of Peru.

Juan Moricz demonstrates, in a practical way, what is indicated by the title of his book, published in 1968: 'Origen Americano de pueblos Europeos' (American Origin of European people).

Benign Ferrario, published in 1933 the book 'La investigacion linguistica y el parentesco extra continental de la lengua Quechua' ( The linguistic investigation and the extra-continental relationship of the Quechuá language). Work that leaves without doubts the influence that has the language Quechua or Runa Simi, on Indo-European languages.

Rvdo P. Dominicio. Ambrosio Morales, member of the seminary of High Studies of the Institute Arquelogico de Cusco in 1941, published the book 'Cusco ciudad Milenaria' (Cusco, City of the Millenia). Morales discovered that the first foundation of Cusco is done by cultures previous to the Pelasgos (proto-Greeks) who spoke a mother language Hebrew, Latin, Siriaco and whose origins are in the Quechua language.

Juan de Velasco, publishes in the year 1844 his book titled 'Historia del reyno de Quito' (History of the Kingdom of Quito) in which he explains that the cradle of the Phoenicians was in Peru, as a result of being descendents of the Wankás, an ethnic group of North-Central Peru.

Pablo Patron, in his important work 'Nuevos estudios sobre las lenguas Americanas' (New Studies on the American Languages) makes special and revealing analogies, concluding that Quechua and Aymara, have the same semitic origin as the Sumerian-Asirian languages.

To continue we will make reference to the studies and investigations that tie the Quechua language with the Latin through Etruscan:

Alberto Childe, in 1927, makes an Philological analysis and provides other evidences on the cradle of the Tusci, Tuskos or Etruscans in his book 'Os Etruscos na americá' (The Etruscans in America), in which he demonstrates the abundant existence of the presence of the Etruscans in the South American continent.

Mario Gattoni Celli, published in Rome 1967, his book 'Gli Etruschi della Russia all 'America''. In which he sustains an undeniable migration, when finding the prototypes of the Etruscans in America.

Natalia Rossi de Tariffi, to this day we consider this Philological investigation the most expertised, deep and coherent, with respect to locating the mysterious cradle of the Etruscans in her work published in 1969, 'America cuarta dimension, los etruscos salieron de los Andes' ( America fourth dimension, the Etruscans left from the Andes').

We also consider it very important to know that many other investigations were made on the themes of Philology and Linguistics, but also included other aspects concerning Archeology, that indicate the American location of the Cradle of Humanity and as a consequence the First Universal Language.

Arthur Posnansky, German archeologist, who after twenty years of archeological investigation in Tiahuanaco (Bolivia), finds vestiges from the time of the human origins and publishes in 1943 his work 'Las Americas son un mundo nuevo o un mundo mas antiguo que Europa y Asia?' (The Americas are a new world or a more ancient world than Europe and Asia?)

Jacques de Mahieu, a precise, contemporary investigator, indicated that South America was the true scene of the 'Old Testament' accounts, as a result of it established that important architectural details of the gothic cathedrals of the Mediterranean, have their origins in the pre-Colombian architecture of South America. In the Seventies he published 'Drakkars en el Amazonas' (Drakkars in Amazonia) and 'El gran viaje del Dios Sol' ('The Great Voyage of the Sun God', 1976).

Gene Savoy, Dr Honoris of the University of Yale, archbishop of the 'International Community of Christ' Church, discoverer in Peru of the archeological complex of the Great Pajaten. Investigator of the origin of the Egyptians in Peru, as he indicates in his work 'Antisuyo'. In 1992 he discovers in Great Vilaya, Chachapoyas Peru, lanzones of stone with hieroglyphic writings of pre-semitic data. He is of the opinion that Peru was Ophir, the distant place where king Salomon got the fine gold to constuct the Coffer of the Alliance, webpage: [link to www.genesavoy.org]

Modern tecnology is also concurrent with the hypotheses of Alfredo Gamarra. The modern discovery made by Ing. Boliviano Ivan Guzman de Rojas, who has invented a software Atamiri with which it is possible to translate up to nine languages with one translator. Being the patron based on the languages Aymara. This important fact means for A.G. no less than the reversion of languages to their close origins in Quechua and Aymara, languages that developed in the location where the 'Creation' took place, containing varied or pure, many words of the first language. This language has to be called ARAC, that means just like Adam in Hebrew, Humanity. Because of the volume of the material as to why the first language was called Arac, this will be done in a further paper. It is also significant that Graham Hancock in his book Fingerprints of the Gods recognizes Aymara as one of the remote human antiquities, something in which we also believe, besides which it is consequent that the oldest languages are not likely to be distant from the cradle of humanity.
[link to www.ancient-mysteries-explained.com]
[link to www.ancient-mysteries-explained.com]
[link to www.ancient-mysteries-explained.com]
I skipped the part of MY own replies reaching to many similar conclusions by my own research reading about Scaling of Sauroposeidon dinosaurs and fast dinosaurs would be impossible in our gravity, changes in 02 caught in air bubbles within amber of fossilized trees; proto-Sumearian scripture found in Peru like Pokotia and Fuente Magna , quipus with Sumerian code as discovered by Gary Urton, Harvard specialist and so on.
 Quoting: inca=chinitial 680031




what in theee fuck are you talking about ?



lol


Peru has nothing to do with Babylon.

Drop the crack pipe.

Stop being drunk.
_____________________________________
There is no use removing doubts one by one. If we clear one doubt another doubt will arise and there will be no end of doubts. But, if by seeking the doubter, the doubter is found to be really non-existent, then all doubts will cease. -- Ramana Maharshi


You have to keep breaking
your heart until it opens.

~ Rumi
inca=chinitial (OP)
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05/16/2009 08:11 AM
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Re: Babylon was in Peru
People should READ before 'jumping'. Euphrates for example is a translated name which actually Quechua language URUTU meaning 'river of copper' something it's not unless it received ships made of reed importing tin, copper, etc from the Andes.
There's a difference from what Sitchin says. First this theory was presented 10 YEARS BEFORE MEN WENT TO THE MOON (that is..in case we were there!) and second this theory says Sumerians CAME OUT of Peru not that Peruvians and the rest of civilization imported from them. Recent data confirms Peruvian civlization is older than Sumerian. Even Sitchin got surprised in Peru "cain" (pronounced Ka-In in Mesopotamia) is inverted homophonous of In-Ka. In his book The Lost Realms he admits the Book of Jubilees says Cain's wife was his sister AWAN. Now T-AWAN-tinsuyo was Inca's empire name of the T meaning '4' like rivers of Eden. Eden was in Hevila the land of gold. We learned that's a name taken from post-Deluge stories whose brother was OPIR which is also an inverted homophonous of PIOR, PIROA, PERU related to river Biru and old amauta incas. Inca civilization never started as official ortodox system wants you to believe. C-14 is useless to date stone to say just a sample.
inca=chinitial (OP)
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05/16/2009 08:13 AM
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Re: Babylon was in Peru
[link to www.geocities.com]

[link to www.geocities.com]
[link to www.geocities.com]
inca=chinitial (OP)
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05/16/2009 08:17 AM
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Re: Babylon was in Peru
Quipus, is the rope nemotechnic system using knots like Hebrew priests to remember their 613 laws. I said quipus had a math code Sumerian system with more than 1.500 signs using binary code as discovered by Gary Urton, Harvard specialist.Check that too in case you never did homework. William Glynn after 30 years in Peru understood -and decoded- Incas did have writing system that was forbidden. It was consonant and numeral system like Hebrew. Yet his doscoveries based upon chronicles made by Guaman (Huaman) Poma de Ayala drawings of the Incas' clothing is until now "hidden" by the Powers in control.
inca=chinitial (OP)
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05/16/2009 08:21 AM
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Re: Babylon was in Peru
[link to fotolog.terra.com]
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05/16/2009 08:23 AM
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Re: Babylon was in Peru
Maybe that's the real reason Freemason ritual in Irak (Babylon) is a memory and worshipping to feathered snake AMARUCA from Incas' realms and America was a name of baptism not because of Americo Vespucio ...
[link to www.whatdoesitmean.com]
inca=chinitial (OP)
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05/16/2009 08:36 AM
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Re: Babylon was in Peru
Now, Sitchin tells us the Sumerians explained something about LEAD element in the moon. Sitchin is a NASA consultant but did his investigations after the man went to the moon (that is: if wee ever went there!) but in this case I knew this theory of Gamarra long before reading Sitchin. Alfredo Gamarra said, 10 before the moon landings, that the moon had been torn from the earth, his reason for believing this was that the Quechua word for the moon was 'Jukk'iylla", which means literally "moon torn from the earth".

Sargon was the Lord of the 3 Quarters who sought TIN. TawanTINsuyo was the tin of the west region. Sitchin told us in The Lost Realms , Cain (pronounced in Mesopotamia like Ka-In and not like Cane)married his sister-wife AWAN. T=4 + AWAN + TIN + suyo. Tawantinsuyo was the name of the Incas empire which never started in 12th Century or later on but thousands of years earlier. C-14 is useless to date stone. What you usually read is a lie....
inca=chinitial (OP)
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05/16/2009 08:42 AM
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Re: Babylon was in Peru
You haven't noticed either the very well-repeated name ENKI may be an adaptation of INKA. Linguist Michael Heiser disagree with many linguisitic statements made by Sitchin (who is not a linguist). One of them is that Nibiru in Sumerian code doesn't seem to be a planet but perhaps somehting hybrid or a star. Anyways, in Aymara language of the Tiahuanaco people from Bolivia (earlier than Quechua Incas)it seems NIBIRU was known as N'AYMAYRU or NAYMARU:
[link to www.cnb.net]
Anonymous Coward
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05/16/2009 08:55 AM
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Re: Babylon was in Peru
Op, have you ever read "When Rocks Cry out?" by Horace Mann?

Great book that theorizes biblical sites in South America.
inca=chinitial (OP)
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Brazil
05/16/2009 09:00 AM
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Re: Babylon was in Peru
Nop! I got no data about that book or author, perhaps you can inform us something. Be my guest!

I guess many people got the same conclusions but the powers of the world still point out their compasses to the wrong places. The rivers in Peru as seen from satellite tend to confirm Babylon was chosen BECAUSE THEY LOOK LIKE PERUVIAN RIVERS OF EDEN.
inca=chinitial (OP)
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05/16/2009 09:07 AM
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Re: Babylon was in Peru
Aren't you sure his surname is Butler?
inca=chinitial (OP)
User ID: 680031
Brazil
05/16/2009 09:16 AM
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Re: Babylon was in Peru
It seems that books has vanished! The only thing I could find out was this:
Place of Tehuti. The Original Jerusalem (Heru Saleym): Cusco, Peru (Machu Picchu). You know that if you go to Jerusalem, there is no proof or record that anything ever happened there? No ruins, no rocks, no remnanats. No sign of anything that they have told us happened there. What about Heliopolis, one of the Seven Wonders of the World? How could it just vanish into thin air? The Exodus possibly went all the way down to Brasil, and the Amazon River could possibly be the Red Sea. Perhaps Abraham is buried at Altum Ha in Belize, which is also where the Exodus began. There is a strong connection between the Yucatan/Olmecs and Mali. Ever hear of Empress Calafia, or Califunia, the Moorish Empress of the entire western coast of Amexem?

I remember once, a Jewish Freemason, friend of mine R.I.P, told me it's interesting the Mayan Bible called Popul Vuh, mentions the episode of the parted sea until they reached the Mount Chi-pixab...but their perspective was opposite to the point of view of the Red Sea in geographical sense. I don't remember anything else of that conversation perhaps 25 years ago or more.
inca=chinitial (OP)
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05/16/2009 09:53 AM
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Re: Babylon was in Peru
Wanna read about the MAYAN EXODUS through the Red Sea?
Thread: Mayan Exodus and the Red Sea
TheVonBaron
User ID: 678015
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05/16/2009 10:32 AM
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Re: Babylon was in Peru
I remember once, a Jewish Freemason, friend of mine R.I.P, told me it's interesting the Mayan Bible called Popul Vuh, mentions the episode of the parted sea until they reached the Mount Chi-pixab...but their perspective was opposite to the point of view of the Red Sea in geographical sense. I don't remember anything else of that conversation perhaps 25 years ago or more.
 Quoting: inca=chinitial 680031



Interesting. I wonder how this can be rectified / juxtaposed against the recent information about the location of the actual Mt. Sinai, supposedly confirmed by 2 explorers in detail - and VERY convincing to say the least. If the Bible is a compilation of stories, I think it is still possible that the 'Book of Exodus' takes place in the ancient land of 'Media / Midia (?)' where Mt. Sinai was located - Saudi Arabia - on the Mountain of Jabal Al Laws.

If located in Saudi Arabia, would explain the 'opposite to the point of view' problem.

Here's the Mt. Sinai vid (5 part series):

inca=chinitial (OP)
User ID: 680031
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05/16/2009 10:37 AM
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Re: Babylon was in Peru
It's true Sinai is where the book of Galatians told us 2.000 years ago and not that one I climbed with tourists in Egypt. Pihakirot is also mentioned in this account:
[link to bibleprobe.com]
[link to www.arkdiscovery.com]
[link to www.arkdiscovery.com]
[link to www.arkdiscovery.com]
inca=chinitial
User ID: 681437
Brazil
05/17/2009 07:36 PM
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Re: Babylon was in Peru
It's Jebel Al Lawaz and as far as I can see few people are aware of all these things.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 681478
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05/17/2009 08:51 PM
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Re: Babylon was in Peru
The Dragons Are Sleeping

Beneath the ground lies the invisible network of pathways called ley lines, over which most of the sacred temples and cathedrals of the world have been built. In Peru, anthropologists and archaeologists have found that these energy meridians radiate out from a temple known as Kkorikancha located in the city of Cusco. They move in four distinct directions and as many as forty-one of these invisible energy lines have been tracked. The energy from these vortices can be measured with scientific instruments and in some of the circular structures of the temples, Geiger counters have registered unusually high radioactive output given off by the stones themselves. Infrared photographic equipment has also shown rays of light beaming up from the stones during special times of the year like the solstices and equinoxes.

Power Within the Land

Dragon Lines &
Dancing The Heart of Shamanism
[link to www.triciamccannonspeaks.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 679107
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05/17/2009 09:03 PM
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Re: Babylon was in Peru
Inca, what do you know about Zuul & the Tzol'kin ?

Do you have any thoughts in these regards ?
inca=chinitial
User ID: 681437
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05/17/2009 09:36 PM
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Re: Babylon was in Peru
This thing about Tzolkin I tried to understand but it seems Mr. Arguedas or whatever his name is.. has his own interpretation of codes, vibrations, cycles. Someone who knows about Mayans and Aztec would be better quaified to know if he's onto something or not. I mean, all that study comparing with Chinese codes maybe had the same source just like I believe there was a Chinese source (and from India too). As a matter of fact Mayans depicted real elephants and the orthodox specialists give their own interpretation like being parrots, butterflies, snakes (with tongues getting out not from their mouths!)just to dodge the obvious: fear to say these are elephants indeed. The very issue suggests or people from Asia gor to Mexico B4 Columbus or some Mexicans went to Asia. Therefore if I were to study this Tzolkin I would devote my interest in the comparision between that and Chinese codes.
Yet, I to be honest, I don't see any practical advice not to use our watches and clocks just because the Gregorian Calendar is wrong. The fact is in our daily life we have compromises to do, duties and we need to know at what time! Even when I get rid of the clock (and I particularly never liked it anyway) we are always aware of the shadows, the dawn and sunset whether we use it or not.

I cheat time waking up early, leaving the clock aside whenever I can, listen to the birds chant (they usually "stop" singing at the time the noise of cars and society starts). I stare the moon. What else can we do? I mean, what's else besides expecting something will come on 2012 or 2013. In what way are we gonna change -if ever- the DNA? Perhaps it's time now for the Mexicans to use that weapon against swine flu if they can? Can they?

Once I asked here a question to the followers of the Tzolkin interpretation and nobody replied. I said all calculations of our calendar are based on an error regarding Christ's birth. He was not born in 7 nor 4 b.C but I said the same thing NOW Mr. David Flynn accepts. Christ was born about 2 b.C. Flynn has written a book about 2012 and I asked a simple question he has not dared to answer in his own forum. As a matter of fact some days ago I discovered after my question the website was off. Let's see if he has answered or not yet....
If that's the case and we have a 2 years error, WE ARE NOT LIVING IN 2009 BUT ACTUALLY 2011 ! Is it possible to compare Mayan calendars or Arabian, etc with our own system if we don't correct the timing of our own calendar first? First you do this and later on you worry about something else which is foreigner! IMHO, that is.

We need something more practical regarding ourselves.
inca=chinitial
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Brazil
05/17/2009 09:42 PM
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Re: Babylon was in Peru
The Dragons Are Sleeping

Geiger counters have registered unusually high radioactive output given off by the stones themselves. Infrared photographic equipment has also shown rays of light beaming up from the stones during special times of the year like the solstices and equinoxes.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 681478


I was in Koricancha which used to be a GOLDEN GARDEN like Greek Hesperides story. An Irish sensitive friend of mine felt awfully bad there and told me the guide was repeating something someone taught but it ain't true. Interesting because he doesn't know anything about Incas. He told me other things though that led me to the conclusion my friend was right. Somewhere else near Sacsayhuaman he detected a place of blood sacrifice he never read about. I asked the tour guide and she confirmed. I wanna know the source of this data about radioactivity and lights from the stones, could you give me?

About my Tzolkin reply I said "Arguedas", I think the name is Arguelles or something like that.
inca=chinitial
User ID: 681437
Brazil
05/17/2009 09:46 PM
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Re: Babylon was in Peru
Nop, Flynn's forum is still out of air:
[link to watcher.boardzero.com]
Excuse my mispelling, I'm typing too fast and not correcting my mistakes.
Anonymous Coward
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05/17/2009 09:47 PM
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Re: Babylon was in Peru
I wasn't referring to Jose Arguelles effort, there is actually a dispute between when the end/beginning of 13.0.0.0.0 is.

[link to www.mayanmajix.com]
[link to www.myspace.com]

interesting thread, those Nazca lines sure do make one go 'hmmmmm'.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 681513
Australia
05/17/2009 09:48 PM
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Re: Babylon was in Peru
The Dragons Are Sleeping

Geiger counters have registered unusually high radioactive output given off by the stones themselves. Infrared photographic equipment has also shown rays of light beaming up from the stones during special times of the year like the solstices and equinoxes.


I was in Koricancha which used to be a GOLDEN GARDEN like Greek Hesperides story. An Irish sensitive friend of mine felt awfully bad there and told me the guide was repeating something someone taught but it ain't true. Interesting because he doesn't know anything about Incas. He told me other things though that led me to the conclusion my friend was right. Somewhere else near Sacsayhuaman he detected a place of blood sacrifice he never read about. I asked the tour guide and she confirmed. I wanna know the source of this data about radioactivity and lights from the stones, could you give me?

About my Tzolkin reply I said "Arguedas", I think the name is Arguelles or something like that.
 Quoting: inca=chinitial 681437


I found that at this link - [link to www.triciamccannonspeaks.com]

:mydragon:
inca=chinitial
User ID: 681437
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05/17/2009 09:48 PM
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Re: Babylon was in Peru
I wrote something about Mayans "football" here:
Thread: Mayan secrets for the ones who wanna know
inca=chinitial
User ID: 681437
Brazil
05/17/2009 10:00 PM
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Re: Babylon was in Peru
That link is the original source of the comment given by the one I asked. Unfortunately is providing no data.
I have to say sincerely there are many forces afford and against the earth and if there were "wars in heaven" even prior or because of men, it's not shamans who are gonna solve the problems because that hasn't stopped the situation of the planet and even the murder of those same shamans and indians all over the world.

I suspect the very shamans have been manipulated and they themselves poured blood-soul in the electromagnetic megaliths of the planet -navels- to literally fill the planet with violence. They share a great deal of responsability trusting too much. We know their religions degenerated and killed their own brothers in behalf of that knowledge. Henceforth I don't feel too emotionally attached just turning my blind eye on regarding the black side of the whole thing. People usually love the architecture, knowledge, metalurgy, engineering and so on. My personal point of view is the interdimensional hybrid hum-animal gods USED THEM in exchange for human lives... to give power to the elite which included the priests, shamans and kings as it has always been in all cultures and systems. They gave knowledge of things interested to the gods and they received human blood for generations. That's why battlefields are always the same all over the planet, blood calling for more blood. All paranormal electromagnetic activit happens more where blood was poured, suicide or homicide.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 22058096
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09/25/2012 11:59 PM
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Re: Babylon was in Peru
and bump. thanks all!
Anonymous Coward
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Brazil
10/10/2012 12:25 PM
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Re: Babylon was in Peru
popcorn