(The following is a summary of the 3 1/2 minute video posted above)
It's a 3 1/2 minute video called Muhommed's Conundrum. It shows a couple of suras that state that Muslims should read and believe in the Bible and what is written in it.
Sura 5:47
Let the people of the Gospel (aka - Christians) judge by what Allah (God) hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by the light of what Allah (God) hath revealed, they are no better than those who rebel. (This is the Koran advocating the Bible and the God of the Bibl)
Sura 5:68
Oh, people of the Book! (aka - The Bible) You have no ground to stand upon unless you STAND FAST by the LAW, THE GOSPEL, and ALL THE REVELATION that has come to you FROM YOUR LORD. (Once again, the Koran advocates the Bible and the God of the Bible)
For those that make claims that the Bible has been corrupted by the Jews & Christians, was "Allah" then ingnorant of this Bible corruption when he wrote those suras (600 years later) recommending that Muslims read the Bible and believe what's written in it? If there really were corruption in the Bible, wouldn't Allah say so and recommend Muslims not read it?
Muhommad's religion is the only religion that is anti-other religion. It is anti-Christ, because it directly states that Christ did not die on the cross (Sura 4:157). Yet the Bible says the opposite, and Allah directs Muslims to read the Bible. The Bible says that Jesus was the son of God and died to cover our sins and that heaven and earth are put under His rule.
Now read this sura:
Sura 4:136
Oh you who believe! Believe in Allah (God) and His messenger, and the scripture which He has sent to His messenger and the scripture which He sent to those before (Him). Any who deny Allah (God), His angels, HIS BOOKS (books plural, not singular, so this includes the Bible), HIS MESSENGERS, and the Day of Judgement hath gone far, far astray.
The Suras are again advocating the Bible and the God of the Bible. Have you ever read those scriptures (the Bible) that came before Muhommed, Muslims? Allah told you to read it. How can you believe in something you've never read?
One must choose between the 1,600 year record God gave in the Bible that even Muhommed recommended, or the stand-alone, 6th century, 23 year record of recitations, of A SINGLE illiterate, that believed he met a demon in a cave and who was the opposite and taught the opposite of the Bible, to deny that Christ is the son of God.
Muslims don't deny the Bible. They believe in Jesus too. But they think he was a prophet, like Mohammed, not the son of God. When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, "Come!" I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand.
Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, "A quart of wheat for a day's wages, and three quarts of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!"
-Revelation 6:5, 6:6
Gradient Not of this world User ID: 643614 United States 5/17/2009 6:40 PM
Muslims don't deny the Bible. They believe in Jesus too. But they think he was a prophet, like Mohammed, not the son of God.
To say that Christ is not the Messiah IS denying the bible Jack.
Quoting: Gradient
Not really. I believe in Jesus and his teachings, but I don't think he was the son of God. When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, "Come!" I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand.
Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, "A quart of wheat for a day's wages, and three quarts of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!"
-Revelation 6:5, 6:6
Gradient Not of this world User ID: 643614 United States 5/17/2009 6:46 PM
Then you don't believe in His teachings...pretty simple.
Quoting: Gradient
Someone else's interpretation is what made him the "son of God." He was no more the son of god than you or I. When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, "Come!" I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand.
Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, "A quart of wheat for a day's wages, and three quarts of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!"
-Revelation 6:5, 6:6
entropy User ID: 678498 United States 5/17/2009 7:02 PM
my re-imaging(cover)
of "Piggies" (The Beatles)
and "Lights in the Sky" (Nine Inch Nails)
is available to listen to now. Won't cost you a dime. Click below to hear it.
004.136
O ye who believe! Believe in Allah and His Messenger, and the scripture which He hath sent to His Messenger and the scripture which He sent to those before (him). Any who denieth Allah, His angels, His Books, His Messengers, and the Day of Judgment, hath gone far, far astray.
INTERESTING! If those are words of Muhammad,
then he is telling to His people:
"Believe in Allah (GOD) and His Messenger (JESUS),
and the scripture (NEW TESTAMENT) which He hath sent to His Messenger (JESUS)
and the scripture (OLD TESTAMENT) which He sent to those before (him)."
Last Edited by jarha on 5/17/2009 at 7:08 PM ___________________________________ KNOW THY ENEMY:
THIS IS NOT YOUR MOTHER'S DEMOCRATIC PARTY
___________________________________
COUNTDOWN TO 12/21/2012
STARTED ON 04/26/2009
We need REVOLUTION
a. a turning round or rotating, as on an axis.
b. a moving in a circular or curving course, as about a central point.
c. a single cycle in such a course.
___________________________
[link to www.sarahpac.com]
There is no thing endowed with life - from man, who is enslaving the elements, to the nimblest creature - in all this world that does not sway in its turn. Whenever action is born from force, though it be infinitesimal, the cosmic balance is upset and the universal motion results.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 681048 New Zealand 5/17/2009 7:13 PM
Not really. I believe in Jesus and his teachings, but I don't think he was the son of God.
Quoting: Jackinthebox
Then in your case, this part of Koran apply.
"Any who denieth Allah, His angels, His Books,
His Messengers, and the Day of Judgment, hath gone far, far astray. "
004.136
O ye who believe! Believe in Allah and His Messenger, and the scripture which He hath sent to His Messenger and the scripture which He sent to those before (him). Any who denieth Allah, His angels, His Books, His Messengers, and the Day of Judgment, hath gone far, far astray. ___________________________________ KNOW THY ENEMY:
THIS IS NOT YOUR MOTHER'S DEMOCRATIC PARTY
___________________________________
COUNTDOWN TO 12/21/2012
STARTED ON 04/26/2009
We need REVOLUTION
a. a turning round or rotating, as on an axis.
b. a moving in a circular or curving course, as about a central point.
c. a single cycle in such a course.
___________________________
[link to www.sarahpac.com]
There is no thing endowed with life - from man, who is enslaving the elements, to the nimblest creature - in all this world that does not sway in its turn. Whenever action is born from force, though it be infinitesimal, the cosmic balance is upset and the universal motion results.
Gradient Not of this world User ID: 643614 United States 5/17/2009 8:30 PM
Jesus said:
John 14:9
"...Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father."
The Father in the Old Testament says:
Isaiah 44:6
"This is what the LORD says— Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am THE First and I am THE Last; apart from Me there is no God."
Jesus in the New Testament says:
Revelation 1:17
Then He placed His right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am THE First and THE Last."
"The" implies the only one. "First" implies first in existence, which actually means that He's always existed and is the source of all creation, which John claims of Jesus here:
John 1:1-3
1In the beginning was the Word (Jesus), and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God. 2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through him (the Word, Jesus) all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
If Jesus and the Father both make the statement that they are "THE" First and "THE" Last, they are saying they're the same person.
1 Thess 5:23 says we have three parts: "spirit, soul and body". Which means we're one person with three parts. We have a physical body for the physical world, a spirit body for the spiritual world, and a soul (mind, will and emotions) that connect and control the two bodies.
God said He made us in His image. His image is three parts: Jesus is God's physical body for the physical world, the Holy Spirit is God's spiritual body for the spiritual world, and the Father is God's soul (mind, will and emotions). So God, like us, is three in one, except God is all powerful, so His three parts are like uber powerful and can do pretty much anything.
So yeah, Jesus is God.
If one says they believed Jesus teachings but don't believe He's God, then they must accept that Jesus was a liar when He claimed He was God, and the son of God. The phrase "Son of Man", to the Jews, meant "God". That's why they said He committed blasphemy when He told them that. Because He was equating Himself with/as God.
So you, my friend, do not believe what Jesus taught. You believe something different, a little closer to what the Muslims believe. At least you know now, though. :)
Last Edited by BrianC on 5/17/2009 at 9:08 PM - Brian
Jackinthebox User ID: 666758 United States 5/17/2009 8:46 PM
Then you don't believe in His teachings...pretty simple.
Someone else's interpretation is what made him the "son of God." He was no more the son of god than you or I.
There is not confusion of interpretation here.
...and behold, a voice out of the heavens, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased." (Matthew 3:17)
But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
(Mark 14:61 62)
Quoting: Gradient
There's always something one can quote from the Bible for just about any debate or ocassion. Look at some of the quotes that Entropy posted above. I don't think people are into eating their children these days. When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, "Come!" I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand.
Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, "A quart of wheat for a day's wages, and three quarts of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!"
-Revelation 6:5, 6:6
Anonymous Coward User ID: 355530 Canada 5/17/2009 9:18 PM
This thread is FAIL, Jesus is the Messiah/Christ according to Muslims and is even refered to as the Messiah in the Qur'an. Christians attacking Muslim beliefs = EPIC FAIL.
1 star.
BrianC User ID: 629415 United States 5/17/2009 9:23 PM
There's always something one can quote from the Bible for just about any debate or ocassion. Look at some of the quotes that Entropy posted above. I don't think people are into eating their children these days.
Quoting: Jackinthebox
That's what people say when they don't understand the Bible in context or the verses someone quoted and they need a cop-out.
You used the eat their children verse in Deuteronomy 28?? LOL
Deuteronomy 28 starts out saying that if you obey God's law (i.e. - don't sin), you'll bring blessings on yourself (in other words, God was telling them if they will follow the law, life will bless them, because God built blessings and happiness into doing good in the world and keeping from evil). Then, in the next part of that chapter it says that if you disobey the law (i.e. - sin), you will curse yourself. Then it goes on to list those curses you could potentially reap. The verse Entropy quoted and you referenced is from that curses section. LOL It was talking about how if Israel goes into sin, they could potentially reap some horrible things (like cannibalism, which is described in that verse).
That's exactly what happened to some. Explorers found that many of Israel's decendants (the Northern 10 tribes that were never heard from again), after being dispersed from the Caucus Mountains about 724 BC, ended up in Africa in small tribes. That's where you can sometimes find tribes that are cannibalistic. Some of the tribes were still abiding by the 10 commandments and other temple rituals the Jews used to have, and even called God Yahweh, as the Jews did.
God picked the Hebrews as His people. And He wanted them to not only know sin, but stay away from it so His people could be blessed, not cursed. This would help represent God to the world so they would come to Israel looking for God's salvation. That's why the law was so strict for those people at that time. It was to weed out sin and evil as quickly as possible so it didn't take root and infect the whole people and misrepresent God to the world. Had God been misrepresented to the world, more people would reject Him and not be saved. Unfortunately, the Israelites were not so good at keeping God's laws over time and they did misrepresent Him eventually, and they reaped lots of curses along the way. The holy land was not always desert. It used to be quite beautiful and green. At the end of the Old Testament, God tells the priests that if they would just start doing what He told them to do originally, He'd end the drought and give them plenty of rains for tons of crops. (Malachi 3)
So, are there any more of your beliefs you'd like explained to you? hehehehe
Last Edited by BrianC on 5/17/2009 at 9:23 PM - Brian
Gradient Not of this world User ID: 643614 United States 5/17/2009 9:25 PM
There's always something one can quote from the Bible for just about any debate or ocassion. Look at some of the quotes that Entropy posted above. I don't think people are into eating their children these days.
Quoting: Jackinthebox
The verses Entropy loves to spam on this forum are unfortunately for his cause mostly derived from what will happen to the Israelites when they forsake God..
All of them either predict what will happen if the Israelites forsake God and/or give the fulfillment of those predictions. If the Israelites turn away from God and refuse to repent, God said he would send such judgment that they would wind up so hungry that even the most delicate and tender mother would become a cannibal, eating her own children, keeping it from the other family members so she would have more to eat. If cannibalism were no big deal, why would this be portrayed as the ultimate in desperation and degradation? The thought of families becoming cannibals among themselves is portrayed as it should be—as a wretched and terrible thing. Such treatment is in stark contrast with the way the dead bodies of honorable or innocent people ought to be treated and are treated in Scripture.
Last Edited by Gradient on 5/17/2009 at 9:34 PM "Do the work like you're in control, pray like God is in control"
glptrainer@yahoo.com
Gradient Not of this world User ID: 643614 United States 5/17/2009 9:27 PM
This thread is FAIL, Jesus is the Messiah/Christ according to Muslims and is even refered to as the Messiah in the Qur'an. Christians attacking Muslim beliefs = EPIC FAIL.
1 star.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 355530
Feel free to back up your opinion with accepted facts..it shouldn't be hard for you since this thread is EPIC FAIL. "Do the work like you're in control, pray like God is in control"
glptrainer@yahoo.com
Anonymous Coward User ID: 670060 United States 5/17/2009 9:32 PM
Muslims don't deny the Bible. They believe in Jesus too. But they think he was a prophet, like Mohammed, not the son of God.
To say that Christ is not the Messiah IS denying the bible Jack.
Not really. I believe in Jesus and his teachings, but I don't think he was the son of God.
Quoting: Jackinthebox
Then you don't believe in the Bible, Jesus, or the Word of God.
For it is clear that Jesus was the Son of God; He was God incarnate on Earth as a man.
This is not opinion or perspective. If you are Christian and believe in the Word of God as presented in the Scriptures, this is what you must accept or you are by definition, antichrist.
BrianC User ID: 629415 United States 5/17/2009 9:34 PM
This thread is FAIL, Jesus is the Messiah/Christ according to Muslims and is even refered to as the Messiah in the Qur'an. Christians attacking Muslim beliefs = EPIC FAIL.
1 star.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 355530
Your post = epic FAIL
I love how you post anonymous, and you do not address any of the facts.
This thread is not to attack Muslims. This thread is to show Muslims that their own Koran asks them to read the Bible and believe it. The thread is also meant to show that Muhommed was a bit mistaken in the parts where he contradicted the very scriptures he claimed God told his Muslims should read and believe.
Muslims believe Jesus is the Messiah/Christ, but they do not believe when Jesus says He's the son of God and that He died for the sin. That's the entire message of the Gospel and the most important part of God's plan. And yet, Muslims say that's a lie.
Their Koran says Jesus never died on the cross for our sins, and that that was just a fake, not the real Jesus. So when the Gospels say Jesus died on the cross for our sins and that He's the son of God, that's contradictory to what the Koran says. Yet the Koran says that Muslims should read the Gospels and believe them.
The Bible is consistant, but the Koran is not. Jesus was very smart and educated and knew the scriptures backwards and forwards. All the prophets of the Old Testament were well educated and wrote their own books/prophecies down. While Jesus may not have written the gospels, He was show in the Gospels to be extremely smart and know scripture perfectly. He reads scrolls in the temple as well. Yet, Muhommad was illiterate and had someone else record his teachings.
It would seem that God is not in the habit of using illiterates as His prophets or messiahs (especially illiterates that contradict their teachings). I'd like to take this time to thank Muhommed for making it so easy for us to see through his lies so his people can be freed from his false religion. Good job, Sparky! - Brian
Jackinthebox User ID: 666758 United States 5/17/2009 9:36 PM
So, are there any more of your beliefs you'd like explained to you? hehehehe
Quoting: BrianC
That's allright preacher, I already got it. When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, "Come!" I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand.
Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, "A quart of wheat for a day's wages, and three quarts of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!"
-Revelation 6:5, 6:6
Jackinthebox User ID: 666758 United States 5/17/2009 9:37 PM
The verses Entropy loves to spam on this forum are unfortunately for his cause mostly derived from what will happen to the Israelites when they forsake God..
Quoting: Gradient
But that wasn't really the point I was making. When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, "Come!" I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand.
Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, "A quart of wheat for a day's wages, and three quarts of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!"
-Revelation 6:5, 6:6
BrianC User ID: 629415 United States 5/17/2009 9:39 PM
The verses Entropy loves to spam on this forum are unfortunately for his cause mostly derived from what will happen to the Israelites when they forsake God..
But that wasn't really the point I was making.
Quoting: Jackinthebox
Then please, by all means, explain exactly what your point was, but more specifically, explain why you used the verse you used about cannibalism. Then maybe we can understand better what it is you were saying. Thanks. - Brian
Jackinthebox User ID: 666758 United States 5/17/2009 9:48 PM
The verses Entropy loves to spam on this forum are unfortunately for his cause mostly derived from what will happen to the Israelites when they forsake God..
But that wasn't really the point I was making.
Then please, by all means, explain exactly what your point was, but more specifically, explain why you used the verse you used about cannibalism. Then maybe we can understand better what it is you were saying. Thanks.
Quoting: BrianC
The point was the verses from the Bible are used and misinterpreted all the time. Ding ding! When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, "Come!" I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand.
Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, "A quart of wheat for a day's wages, and three quarts of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!"
-Revelation 6:5, 6:6
dschis User ID: 658956 United States 5/17/2009 10:01 PM
This thread is FAIL, Jesus is the Messiah/Christ according to Muslims and is even refered to as the Messiah in the Qur'an. Christians attacking Muslim beliefs = EPIC FAIL.
1 star.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 355530
Where? just out of curiosity I will assist each individual in their efforts to become a highly motivated, well disciplined, physically and mentally fit soldier, capable of defeating any enemy on today's modern battlefield.
I will instill pride in all I train. Pride in self, in the Army, and in Country.
I will insist that each soldier meets and maintains the Army standards of military bearing and courtesy, consistent with the highest traditions of the U.S. Army.
I will lead by example, never requiring a soldier to attempt any task I would not do myself.
But first, last, and always, I am an American Soldier. Sworn to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, both foreign and domestic.
BrianC User ID: 629415 United States 5/17/2009 10:10 PM
The verses Entropy loves to spam on this forum are unfortunately for his cause mostly derived from what will happen to the Israelites when they forsake God..
But that wasn't really the point I was making.
Then please, by all means, explain exactly what your point was, but more specifically, explain why you used the verse you used about cannibalism. Then maybe we can understand better what it is you were saying. Thanks.
The point was the verses from the Bible are used and misinterpreted all the time. Ding ding!
Quoting: Jackinthebox
That's why we put things in context for you so you'd see that your verses and our verses were in context for what they actually mean, and not being misused. So I guess we did understand your argument. And now we've made your argument moot. :) - Brian
fërú. dot connector User ID: 681412 Mexico 5/17/2009 10:12 PM
Muslims don't deny the Bible. They believe in Jesus too. But they think he was a prophet, like Mohammed, not the son of God.
To say that Christ is not the Messiah IS denying the bible Jack.
Quoting: Gradient
The first testament did not talk about Jesus. So not all the Bible is about Jesus the first part or first testament or Torah is what the call the Book.
the Messiah not necessarily needs to be son of God, they believe Jesus is a Prophet and they believe Jesus will came back and will stay here leading the whole world and will die here.
They also have an special space on Medina Mosque, beside the Prophet Mohamed with exactly the same characteristics to keep Jesus body after his coming government in this world. 084M4-C41D3R0N %N0W5... 9/II 1N51D3 J08....AHINI 4L50 1N51D3 J08
March 20 2012 Quetzalcoatl's Return
Welcome back beloved Enki
2010 the beginning of all.
Nabu in my heart con tu luz.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 670060 United States 5/17/2009 10:23 PM
The first testament did not talk about Jesus. So not all the Bible is about Jesus the first part or first testament or Torah is what the call the Book.
Quoting: fërú.
Not true.
The Old Testament is about Israel and the covenant (promise) of the coming messiah...
The New Testament is about Christ Jesus and the fulfillment of the covenant (promise).
The whole Bible is about Christ Jesus and His fulfillment of the covenant of God.
dschis User ID: 658956 United States 5/17/2009 10:26 PM
Muslims don't deny the Bible. They believe in Jesus too. But they think he was a prophet, like Mohammed, not the son of God.
To say that Christ is not the Messiah IS denying the bible Jack.
The first testament did not talk about Jesus. So not all the Bible is about Jesus the first part or first testament or Torah is what the call the Book.
the Messiah not necessarily needs to be son of God, they believe Jesus is a Prophet and they believe Jesus will came back and will stay here leading the whole world and will die here.
They also have an special space on Medina Mosque, beside the Prophet Mohamed with exactly the same characteristics to keep Jesus body after his coming government in this world.
Quoting: fërú.
Hi Feru, interesting but they still deny that is the Son of God. Maybe, in his infinite mercy he'll give them a break. I will assist each individual in their efforts to become a highly motivated, well disciplined, physically and mentally fit soldier, capable of defeating any enemy on today's modern battlefield.
I will instill pride in all I train. Pride in self, in the Army, and in Country.
I will insist that each soldier meets and maintains the Army standards of military bearing and courtesy, consistent with the highest traditions of the U.S. Army.
I will lead by example, never requiring a soldier to attempt any task I would not do myself.
But first, last, and always, I am an American Soldier. Sworn to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, both foreign and domestic.
lissa User ID: 644660 United States 5/17/2009 10:30 PM
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