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If you haven't read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, READ IT NOW!!!!

 
Just A Thought

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05/20/2009 03:12 PM
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Re: If you haven't read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, READ IT NOW!!!!
Atlas Shrugged audio book with e-book

[link to www.mininova.org]

will read tonight
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 679996


I really doubt you will be able to finish it tonight. If you do hats off to ya!!
Anonymous Coward
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05/20/2009 03:25 PM
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Re: If you haven't read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, READ IT NOW!!!!
Politicians invariably respond to crises -- that in most cases they themselves created -- by spawning new government programs, laws and regulations.

These, in turn, generate more havoc and poverty, which inspires the politicians to create more programs . . . and the downward spiral repeats itself until the productive sectors of the economy collapse under the collective weight of taxes and other burdens imposed in the name of fairness, equality and do-goodism.






so unlike today.
Riker (OP)

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05/20/2009 04:01 PM
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Re: If you haven't read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, READ IT NOW!!!!
Summarize it.

Totally irrelevant fantasy world to what we are in today.

There's one scene where the protagonist goes into a big speech about what money means, like the dollar represents work and the product of one's labor.

If a capitalist when into that kind of rave over the dollar today, he'd be laughed off the panel of talking heads.

:dollartp:

The whole free market capitalism thing is dead, corrupted by insiders and a negligent government.

The book is worth reading as it is a work of existential philosophy that Ayn Rand has described.
 Quoting: Andromeda





Just because the free market hasn't existed recently doesn't mean that it isn't the way to go!

Jesus, there is nothing wrong with capitalism when there is a truly free market...

it's the regulation and bailouts that fuck it all up.
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Xare

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05/20/2009 04:07 PM
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Re: If you haven't read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, READ IT NOW!!!!
I liked Ayn Rands, Anthem so I read The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged.

They were very good and a great help to my process of Individuation.
Anonymous Coward
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05/20/2009 04:48 PM
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Re: If you haven't read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, READ IT NOW!!!!
Unfortunately, Rand's philosophy of self improvement runs counter current to the prevailing philosophy of modern times- do as little as possible and get away with as much as you can.
BluzGal nli
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05/20/2009 05:11 PM
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Re: If you haven't read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, READ IT NOW!!!!
As the novel opens, protagonist Dagny Taggart, executive of the railroad company Taggart Transcontinental, attempts to keep the company alive in difficult economic times marked by collectivism and statism. Dagny's brother, James Taggart, the railroad's President, seems peripherally aware of the company's troubles but will not make any difficult choices, preferring to avoid responsibility for any actions. While this unfolds, Dagny is disappointed to discover that Francisco d'Anconia, her childhood friend, first love, and king of the copper industry, appears to have become a worthless playboy who is destroying his own business.

In the final section of the novel, Taggart discovers the truth about John Galt, who is leading an organized "strike" against those who use the force of law and moral guilt to confiscate the accomplishments of society's productive members. With the collapse of the nation and its rapacious government all but certain, Galt emerges to reconstruct a society that will celebrate individual achievement and enlightened self-interest, delivering a long speech (fifty-six pages in one paperback edition) serving to explain the novel's theme and Rand's philosophy of Objectivism, in the book's longest single chapter.[23]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 682949


And somewhere in there is Howard Roark, iconoclastic industrialist, who is being targeted by the government because he is an original, creative, productive guy who is outstripping his competitors. The competitors are friends of the Government, which doesn't like to see them losing, so the Government takes away from Roark and gives to the losers. (There was something on another thread this morning about a Dodge franchise that had that exact same scenario, which is why I mentioned Atlas Shrugged at that time. It's happening now, folks.)

And what brings relief to the "fictional" situation? Anyone who can do anything stops doing it, society crumbles, and those who can do, start doing again -- free from the looters who frustrated their doing in the past.
Anonymous Coward
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05/20/2009 05:14 PM
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Re: If you haven't read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, READ IT NOW!!!!
And somewhere in there is Howard Roark, iconoclastic industrialist, who is being targeted by the government because he is an original, creative, productive guy who is outstripping his competitors. The competitors are friends of the Government, which doesn't like to see them losing, so the Government takes away from Roark and gives to the losers. (There was something on another thread this morning about a Dodge franchise that had that exact same scenario, which is why I mentioned Atlas Shrugged at that time. It's happening now, folks.)

 Quoting: BluzGal nli 317429


'Scuse me, I'm confusing my Rand heroes -- the industrialist was Hank Reardon! Howard Roark was the hero in The Fountainhead -- another good read about individuality.
Thoughts Faux Fodder

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05/20/2009 05:15 PM
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Re: If you haven't read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, READ IT NOW!!!!
Atlas Shrugged audio book with e-book

[link to www.mininova.org]

will read tonight
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 679996

great link, i read this in high school, it's defiantly time to reread it :-)

Last Edited by Thoughts Faux Fodder on 05/20/2009 05:16 PM
Hope is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune--without the words,
And never stops at all....
Emily Dickinson
Anonymous Coward
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05/20/2009 05:31 PM
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Re: If you haven't read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, READ IT NOW!!!!
Jesus, there is nothing wrong with capitalism when there is a truly free market...

it's the regulation and bailouts that fuck it all up.
 Quoting: Riker


There is no such thing as a "free market", it always exists in the context of a vast legal framework - it's just a matter of more or less regulation, and whose interests those regulations reflect. The bailouts happened because of a lack of regulation, might want to study a little recent history, like the revocation of the glass-segal act in the late 90's. People who pine about their imaginary la la land free market paradise are as deluded as the Marxists who insist that Soviet Russia was just an imperfect implementation of Marxism and we just need to try again. ONCE AGAIN, the recent bail-outs happened due to a lack of regulation - the lack of regulation is exactly what the Randroid morons wanted.
GraftedPromise U_ _ofA
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05/20/2009 05:31 PM
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Re: If you haven't read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, READ IT NOW!!!!
Great book!

But what's the point?

We have socialists dominating the Democratic party and religiously inspired anti-abortionists dominating the Republican party. Corporate interests and labor unions now run the country behind-the-scenes to distort and manipulate markets and get public subsidies in one form or another.

There is no free market capitalism in our country anymore.
 Quoting: Andromeda

.
... ah ... I don't see what you see ... AT ALL! ... in regard to the repubs
.
1-2-Follow

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05/20/2009 05:31 PM

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Re: If you haven't read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, READ IT NOW!!!!
Summarize it.


No.

Read.
 Quoting: Riker


no.
"As of 10:18 a.m. EST, on the 23rd day of July, I officially declare this the day your DOW DOOM died. 9000 has just been breached." - the 1-2

Truth is schilling in the empire of retards.

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14WORDS

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05/20/2009 05:34 PM
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Re: If you haven't read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, READ IT NOW!!!!
And if you've read Rand, I suggest John Ross' Unintended Consequences.
"There is no firm reason to anticipate that the intellectual capacities of peoples geographically separated in their evolution should prove to have evolved identically. Our wanting to reserve equal powers of reason as some universal heritage of humanity will not be enough to make it so." -- Nobel Prize-winner James Watson

"The war is coming to the streets of America and if you are not keeping and bearing and practicing with your arms then you will be helpless and you will be the victim of evil." - Ted Nugent

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von doom
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05/20/2009 05:42 PM
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Re: If you haven't read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, READ IT NOW!!!!
I agree. Great book.

Too bad you are all becoming enlightened now. Interventionary economics on a perverse scale was going strong since 2002, but very few noticed.

Now it's out in the open and you're all upset. It's a shame many of you couldn't see it when you should have noticed.

Anyway, enjoy the book. I hope more of you choose to read it.

Sidenote: A lot of the Economic Interventionaries often cite this book as a personal favorite, which is baffling.
Xare

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05/20/2009 05:49 PM
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Re: If you haven't read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, READ IT NOW!!!!
There is no such thing as a "free market", it always exists in the context of a vast legal framework - it's just a matter of more or less regulation, and whose interests those regulations reflect. The bailouts happened because of a lack of regulation, might want to study a little recent history, like the revocation of the glass-segal act in the late 90's. People who pine about their imaginary la la land free market paradise are as deluded as the Marxists who insist that Soviet Russia was just an imperfect implementation of Marxism and we just need to try again. ONCE AGAIN, the recent bail-outs happened due to a lack of regulation - the lack of regulation is exactly what the Randroid morons wanted.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 683716



The Free Market Economy regulates itself automatically thought the Axiom of Spontaneous Order.


[link to en.wikipedia.org]
Anonymous Coward
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05/20/2009 05:51 PM
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Re: If you haven't read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, READ IT NOW!!!!
Summarize it.

Totally irrelevant fantasy world to what we are in today.

There's one scene where the protagonist goes into a big speech about what money means, like the dollar represents work and the product of one's labor.

If a capitalist when into that kind of rave over the dollar today, he'd be laughed off the panel of talking heads.

:dollartp:

The whole free market capitalism thing is dead, corrupted by insiders and a negligent government.

The book is worth reading as it is a work of existential philosophy that Ayn Rand has described.
 Quoting: Andromeda


Free market capitalism has not existed in the U.S. since the late 19th century and early 20th. It died in 1913 when the U.S. got it's first central bank.
Anonymous Coward
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05/20/2009 05:55 PM
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Re: If you haven't read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, READ IT NOW!!!!
Summarize it.


No.

Read.
 Quoting: Riker

Read This!
stfu
fred704
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05/20/2009 05:57 PM
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Re: If you haven't read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, READ IT NOW!!!!
FOOLS! DO NOT READ Atlas Shrugged.

The Gov't monitors and knows those who read it are likely subversive!

Is a book worth going to a re-education camp?????
Riker (OP)

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05/20/2009 05:58 PM
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Re: If you haven't read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, READ IT NOW!!!!
Jesus, there is nothing wrong with capitalism when there is a truly free market...

it's the regulation and bailouts that fuck it all up.





There is no such thing as a "free market", it always exists in the context of a vast legal framework - it's just a matter of more or less regulation, and whose interests those regulations reflect. The bailouts happened because of a lack of regulation, might want to study a little recent history, like the revocation of the glass-segal act in the late 90's. People who pine about their imaginary la la land free market paradise are as deluded as the Marxists who insist that Soviet Russia was just an imperfect implementation of Marxism and we just need to try again. ONCE AGAIN, the recent bail-outs happened due to a lack of regulation - the lack of regulation is exactly what the Randroid morons wanted.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 683716


Ugh...

Whatever...

You clearly dont get or dont WANT to get what a free market is.

If you don't think it will work then say that, but YES there IS such a thing as a free market and it is the ONLY thing that works.

The bailouts "happened because of a lack of regulation"???

Are you out of your fuckin mind? That's the exact OPPOSITE of the truth!

It's not like a trly free market has even EXISTED in this country since 1913!
You shall know the TRUTH, and the TRUTH shall set you free.
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Anonymous Coward
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05/20/2009 05:58 PM
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Re: If you haven't read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, READ IT NOW!!!!
There is no such thing as a "free market", it always exists in the context of a vast legal framework - it's just a matter of more or less regulation, and whose interests those regulations reflect. The bailouts happened because of a lack of regulation, might want to study a little recent history, like the revocation of the glass-segal act in the late 90's. People who pine about their imaginary la la land free market paradise are as deluded as the Marxists who insist that Soviet Russia was just an imperfect implementation of Marxism and we just need to try again. ONCE AGAIN, the recent bail-outs happened due to a lack of regulation - the lack of regulation is exactly what the Randroid morons wanted.



The Free Market Economy regulates itself automatically thought the Axiom of Spontaneous Order.


[link to en.wikipedia.org]
 Quoting: Xare


Libertarian rott. The derivitive and hedgefund markets are unregulated and have done nothing but wreck havoc on the world econony. Was the commodity run up last year your idea of a desirable outcome from a free market? Are there any positive economic examples of the Axiom of """ in the real world?
Once again, markets always exist in a legal social context, there is no such thing as an absolutely free market. What the libertarians salivate over are markets in which the regulations are wholly weighed towards share holders, as exists now - though most are too thick to see that that is how libertarian economic theory works out in the real world. It was the Randian, free marketers who pushed and got the deregulation of markets going which is what has led to the current crisis.
9teen.47™

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05/20/2009 05:59 PM
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Re: If you haven't read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, READ IT NOW!!!!
aynrand She was an Illuminist shrill.
Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
Psa 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, [and] all the nations that forget God.
Jer 6:2 I have likened the daughter of Zion to a comely and delicate [woman].
STOCK UP NOW. You should have at least 6 months worth of basics for every member of your household. Stay away from crowds when trouble starts, do not forget water storage, tobacco is worth more than gold or silver, and be kind to hungry children.
Riker (OP)

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05/20/2009 05:59 PM
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Re: If you haven't read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, READ IT NOW!!!!
By the way, great posts and great suggestions guys, thanks very much!
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Riker (OP)

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05/20/2009 06:00 PM
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Re: If you haven't read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, READ IT NOW!!!!
There is no such thing as a "free market", it always exists in the context of a vast legal framework - it's just a matter of more or less regulation, and whose interests those regulations reflect. The bailouts happened because of a lack of regulation, might want to study a little recent history, like the revocation of the glass-segal act in the late 90's. People who pine about their imaginary la la land free market paradise are as deluded as the Marxists who insist that Soviet Russia was just an imperfect implementation of Marxism and we just need to try again. ONCE AGAIN, the recent bail-outs happened due to a lack of regulation - the lack of regulation is exactly what the Randroid morons wanted.



The Free Market Economy regulates itself automatically thought the Axiom of Spontaneous Order.


[link to en.wikipedia.org]


Libertarian rott. The derivitive and hedgefund markets are unregulated and have done nothing but wreck havoc on the world econony. Was the commodity run up last year your idea of a desirable outcome from a free market? Are there any positive economic examples of the Axiom of """ in the real world?
Once again, markets always exist in a legal social context, there is no such thing as an absolutely free market. What the libertarians salivate over are markets in which the regulations are wholly weighed towards share holders, as exists now - though most are too thick to see that that is how libertarian economic theory works out in the real world. It was the Randian, free marketers who pushed and got the deregulation of markets going which is what has led to the current crisis.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 683716


Defining a free market solely on the degree of regulation is like saying organic farming is just farming without chemicals.

You miss the whole damned point.

Oh, and the regulation you clearly prefer is working SO WELL!
You shall know the TRUTH, and the TRUTH shall set you free.
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Riker (OP)

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05/20/2009 06:01 PM
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Re: If you haven't read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, READ IT NOW!!!!
She was an Illuminist shrill.
 Quoting: 9teen.47™


Please elaborate.
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Riker (OP)

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05/20/2009 06:01 PM
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Re: If you haven't read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, READ IT NOW!!!!
Summarize it.


No.

Read.


no.
 Quoting: 1-2-Follow


whip
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Andromeda

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05/20/2009 06:02 PM
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Re: If you haven't read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, READ IT NOW!!!!
There is no such thing as a "free market", it always exists in the context of a vast legal framework - it's just a matter of more or less regulation, and whose interests those regulations reflect. The bailouts happened because of a lack of regulation, might want to study a little recent history, like the revocation of the glass-segal act in the late 90's. People who pine about their imaginary la la land free market paradise are as deluded as the Marxists who insist that Soviet Russia was just an imperfect implementation of Marxism and we just need to try again. ONCE AGAIN, the recent bail-outs happened due to a lack of regulation - the lack of regulation is exactly what the Randroid morons wanted.



The Free Market Economy regulates itself automatically thought the Axiom of Spontaneous Order.


[link to en.wikipedia.org]


Libertarian rott. The derivitive and hedgefund markets are unregulated and have done nothing but wreck havoc on the world econony. Was the commodity run up last year your idea of a desirable outcome from a free market? Are there any positive economic examples of the Axiom of """ in the real world?
Once again, markets always exist in a legal social context, there is no such thing as an absolutely free market. What the libertarians salivate over are markets in which the regulations are wholly weighed towards share holders, as exists now - though most are too thick to see that that is how libertarian economic theory works out in the real world. It was the Randian, free marketers who pushed and got the deregulation of markets going which is what has led to the current crisis.


Defining a free market solely on the degree of regulation is like saying organic farming is just farming without chemicals.

You miss the whole damned point.

Oh, and the regulation you clearly prefer is working SO WELL!
 Quoting: Riker


Because regulation was AWOL during GWB's Administration!
Riker (OP)

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05/20/2009 06:07 PM
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Re: If you haven't read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, READ IT NOW!!!!
Andromeda, how can you even begin to think the market problems just started in the past ten years?

You are intelligent enough....

You must know that this is a decades long problem in the making, don't you?



And what in the world is your idea of "regulation gone AWOL"?!?!??!

You really mean to say that you believe govt regulation of the airlines, banking industries, auto industries, health industry, etc etc, didn't exist during the Bush years!?
You shall know the TRUTH, and the TRUTH shall set you free.
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Anonymous Coward
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05/20/2009 06:13 PM
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Re: If you haven't read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, READ IT NOW!!!!
Ugh...

Whatever...

You clearly dont get or dont WANT to get what a free market is.

If you don't think it will work then say that, but YES there IS such a thing as a free market and it is the ONLY thing that works.

The bailouts "happened because of a lack of regulation"???

Are you out of your fuckin mind? That's the exact OPPOSITE of the truth!

It's not like a trly free market has even EXISTED in this country since 1913!
 Quoting: Riker


You sound like the Marxists who always claim that Marxism just hasn't been implemented properly, we just need to give it another shot - forget Soviet Russia or Mao's China, they were just flawed versions of Marxism. The de-regulation of the banking industry is exactly what led to the bailouts - the bailout money is being used to payoff counter parties in derivitive claims. Derivitives are completely unregulated.
The derivitve bets were placed on mortgage backed securities - another largely unregulated market.
That's what happened, that's reality, just like the USSR and Red China were honest attempts at implementing a Maxist state. We've tried Randian unregulated markets, they don't work, at least not in high finance, or basic commodities.

Like to hear whatever upsurd theory you have as to what spurred the bailouts - and where is this free market shangrila you speak of? Pre 1913 U.S.?
Luminous

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05/20/2009 06:15 PM

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Re: If you haven't read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, READ IT NOW!!!!
I actually have it in my stack of books to read when the grid goes down. Might have to bump it up for when I get done with this latest Patricia Cornwell book.
You Dont Have A Soul. You Are A Soul. You Have A Body.
Anonymous Coward
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05/20/2009 06:20 PM
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Re: If you haven't read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, READ IT NOW!!!!
Great book!

But what's the point?
....
There is no free market capitalism in our country anymore.
 Quoting: Andromeda


Clearly there never was any thing close to a free market style capitalism experience in Amerika!

The concept of a free market is quite impossible to 'fix' for any government to control.... and why would any government want to control the markets???

This is what government does!! Control of the people is the purpose of all Governments!!!

This is the only purpose of government!! Since free people need no Government in any form, the true result in ENSLAVEMENT OF ALL THE PEOPLE!!!

Government is the problem and will always be the problem, a society that is free from market manipulations will never exist, only in the world of make believe!

Government = Corruption!!

Freedom = bsflag

Ayn Rand is perhaps the most intelligent human being alive during the modern age, her ideals will someday be 'outcast' just like the writings of General George Washington; who by todays standards would be at the top of the NSA terrorist most wanted list...

yoda
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05/20/2009 06:23 PM
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Re: If you haven't read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, READ IT NOW!!!!
Defining a free market solely on the degree of regulation is like saying organic farming is just farming without chemicals.

You miss the whole damned point.

Oh, and the regulation you clearly prefer is working SO WELL!
 Quoting: Riker


No, your missing reality. We are seeing the effects of de-regulation. Define "free market." Please explain how a market can exist outside of a legal social context. It's clear how the term "free market" is used in a real world legal, political context, and it's clear how destructive your unregulated "free" markets are. We're living through the disasterous effects of de-regulation, and it's only going to get worse. These fantasies about some utopian free market economy that are being sold to the nieve and gullible are just the flip side of Marxism - they are both ultimatly fantasies that end up ripping apart that which they claim to want to save - beware if those trying to sell you Utopia.

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