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Were Humans Meant to Eat Meat?

 
Anonymous Coward
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Were Humans Meant to Eat Meat?
Body of Evidence
Were Humans Meant to Eat Meat?

by Sally Deneen

Cardiologist William C. Roberts hails from the famed cattle state of Texas, but he says this without hesitation: Humans aren’t physiologically designed to eat meat. “I think the evidence is pretty clear. If you look at various characteristics of carnivores versus herbivores, it doesn’t take a genius to see where humans line up,” says Roberts, editor in chief of The American Journal of Cardiology and medical director of the Baylor Heart and Vascular Institute at Baylor University Medical Center in Dallas.

© Stephen Kroninger
As further evidence, Roberts cites the carnivore’s short intestinal tract, which reaches about three times its body length. An herbivore’s intestines are 12 times its body length, and humans are closer to herbivores, he says. Roberts rattles off other similarities between human beings and herbivores. Both get vitamin C from their diets (carnivores make it internally). Both sip water, not lap it up with their tongues. Both cool their bodies by perspiring (carnivores pant).

Human beings and herbivorous animals have little mouths in relation to their head sizes, unlike carnivores, whose big mouths are all the better for “seizing, killing and dismembering prey,” argues nutrition specialist Dr. Milton R. Mills, associate director of preventive medicine for the Washington, D.C.-based Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (PCRM). People and herbivores extensively chew their food, he says, whereas swallowing food whole is the preferred method of carnivores and omnivores.

Got Milk?

Dr. Neal D. Barnard, PCRM’s founder and president, says humans lack the raw abilities to be good hunters. “We are not quick, like cats, hawks or other predators,” he says. “It was not until the advent of arrowheads, hatchets and other implements that killing and capturing prey became possible.”

Milk, another animal product, can also be problematic for people. That’s why, in response to the popular “Got Milk?” ad campaign, Barnard’s organization sponsored billboards this past summer that read, “Got Diarrhea?”

“Dairy foods are definitely not a natural part of our diet,” contends vegetarian dietitian and author Virginia Messina, who fields the public’s nutritional questions at www.VegRD.com. “We only started consuming them about 10,000 years ago, which is very recent in our evolution. Our physiology suggests that we really did not evolve to consume dairy beyond early childhood.”

Three out of 10 adults are lactose intolerant, meaning they can’t digest the sugar in milk. So they likely suffer gas or diarrhea when undigested lactose reaches the large intestine, according to an April report in the Nutrition Action Healthletter.

While celebrities sport milk mustaches in ad campaigns, some research raises questions as to whether milk is a better source of calcium than, say, spinach or collard greens. Echoing the conclusions of research elsewhere, a Harvard University study of more than 75,000 nurses found no evidence that nurses who drank the most milk enjoyed fewer broken bones.

Are We Omnivores?

Milk’s high protein actually could leach calcium from bones, according to Dr. Walter Willett, of the Harvard School of Public Health, speaking on the PBS program HealthWeek.

“Drinking cow milk has been linked to iron-deficiency anemia in infants and children; it has been named as the cause of cramps and diarrhea in much of the world’s population and the cause of multiple forms of allergies as well. The possibility has been raised that it may play a central role in the origins of atherosclerosis and heart attacks,” writes Dr. Frank Oski, former director of the Johns Hopkins University Department of Pediatrics, in his book, Don’t Drink Your Milk!

As intriguing as these arguments may be, the idea that humans are natural vegetarians has “no scientific basis in fact,” argues anatomist and primatologist John McArdle. Alarmed by this growing belief, McArdle, a vegetarian, says the human anatomy proves that people are omnivores.

“We obviously are not carnivores, but we are equally obviously not strict vegetarians, if you carefully examine the anatomical, physiological and fossil evidence,” says McArdle, executive director of the Alternatives Research and Development Foundation in Eden Prairie, Minnesota.

According to a 1999 article in the journal The Ecologist, several of our physiological features “clearly indicate a design” for eating meat, including “our stomach’s production of hydrochloric acid, something not found in herbivores. Furthermore, the human pancreas manufactures a full range of digestive enzymes to handle a wide variety of foods, both animal and vegetable.

“While humans may have longer intestines than animal carnivores, they are not as long as herbivores’; nor do we possess multiple stomachs like many herbivores, nor do we chew cud,” the magazine adds. “Our physiology definitely indicates a mixed feeder.”

If people were designed to be strict vegetarians, McArdle expects we would have a specialized colon, specialized teeth and a stomach that doesn’t have a generalized pH—all the better to handle roughage. Tom Billings, a vegetarian for three decades and site editor of BeyondVeg.com, believes humans are natural omnivores. Helping prove it, he says, is the fact that people have a low synthesis rate of the fatty acid DHA and of taurine, suggesting our early ancestors relied on animal foods to get these nutrients. Vitamin B-12, also, isn’t reliably found in plants. That, Billings says, left “animal foods as the reliable source during evolution.”

History argues in favor of the omnivore argument, considering that humans have eaten meat for 2.5 million years or more, according to fossil evidence. Indeed, when researchers examined the chemical makeup of the teeth of an early African hominid that lived in woodlands three million years ago, they expected to learn that our ancestor lived on fruits and leaves. “But the isotopic clues show that it ate a varied diet, including either grassland plants or animals that themselves fed on grasses,” reported the journal Science in 1999.

So, the question remains: Are humans natural vegetarians? In the end, whether a person lives a vegetarian lifestyle has less to do with esoteric matters of anatomy and more to do with ethics and personal values. The architecture of the human body offers no simple answers.

Did you enjoy this article? Subscribe to E/The Environmental Magazine!

CONTACTS

EatVeg.com
E-mail: vegetarianism@aol.com

Beyond Vegetarianism
E-mail: teb@beyondveg.com
Editors, if you are interested in reprinting this article, please contact Featurewell / (212) 924-2283

[link to www.emagazine.com]
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2009 07:33 AM
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Re: Were Humans Meant to Eat Meat?
Long answer short: yes, we meant to eat meat
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2009 07:35 AM
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Re: Were Humans Meant to Eat Meat?
yes.....protien good

salad nice to but mog want meat
gooderboy

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05/28/2009 07:35 AM
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Re: Were Humans Meant to Eat Meat?
... oh gee, lol, let's see... just how long have human beings been eating meat now?
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2009 07:36 AM
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Re: Were Humans Meant to Eat Meat?
"If you look at various characteristics of carnivores versus herbivores, it doesn’t take a genius to see where humans line up"

Agreed, it doesn't take a genius but then again most people are very stupid.

Man want not meant to be a meat-eater.
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2009 07:37 AM
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Re: Were Humans Meant to Eat Meat?
Damn....Maybe I should have my canine teeth removed.
rosename
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05/28/2009 07:46 AM
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Re: Were Humans Meant to Eat Meat?
omnivore you need both fish for brain size of unborn
joejoe

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05/28/2009 07:54 AM

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Re: Were Humans Meant to Eat Meat?
then explain to me why i have these fang like teeth in my mouth called canine teeth? they ain't for eating veggies!
the 2 party system is a sham--both sides are puppets playing for the same team
Cranky
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05/28/2009 07:55 AM
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Re: Were Humans Meant to Eat Meat?
Wow I have a London Broil soaking in garlic and crushed pepper. I plan on broiling it till it is rare and I will consume its goodness with a heaping pile of mashed potato and gravy with a helping of peas and carrots. I think London Broil is the best cut for the least money. I mean there are better cuts but for those come a high price tag.

So much for the NWO plans to get rid of cows! If they actually do that I will find out who did that and simply kill and eat them! Nothing beats that iron taste in blood!
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2009 07:57 AM
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Re: Were Humans Meant to Eat Meat?
yes, we have two sharp fucking teeth, which is meant fro tearing up meat..
Veggie guy
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05/28/2009 07:59 AM
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Re: Were Humans Meant to Eat Meat?
The answer is simple: Look at the apes/simians!
The gorillas eating only a few leaves a day yet they are full of muscles; the simians are mainly VEGGIES so I guess humans should build their diet on healthy diary products, veggies, fruits, nuts.

Humans are sooo stupid; they support the DAILY HOLOCAUST of innocent animals (pigs, chickens, cows etc.) yet they babbling about "peace & love"!
If you want peace then stop supporting the hijacking of the Animal Kingdom and the Animal Holocaust; it's not good for you (cancer, sickness) and it's nt good for the poor animals! (killed)

Animals ARE NOT CREATED FOR FOOD![/b]
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2009 08:04 AM
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Re: Were Humans Meant to Eat Meat?
Yes, we are meant to eat meat. Here are two indisputable facts.

One, we have omnivore teeth. Herbivores have incisors and molars, but not canine. We have incisors, molars, and canine, just like other omnivores, pigs, bears, primates, etc...

Two, our eyes are in the front of our heads. Why? Because we are predators. Only predators have forward looking eyes, so that they can used there stereoscopic vision to focus on and lock in on there target. We are hunters, just like wolves, lions, tigers, panthers, etc... Hunters are not herbivores.

Herbivores are prey, they all have their eyes on the sides of their heads. So they have a larger field of view, to see any predators around them. We are not prey. We did not rise to the top of the food change by being prey.
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2009 08:05 AM
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Re: Were Humans Meant to Eat Meat?
The answer is simple: Look at the apes/simians!
The gorillas eating only a few leaves a day yet they are full of muscles; the simians are mainly VEGGIES so I guess humans should build their diet on healthy diary products, veggies, fruits, nuts.

Humans are sooo stupid; they support the DAILY HOLOCAUST of innocent animals (pigs, chickens, cows etc.) yet they babbling about "peace & love"!
If you want peace then stop supporting the hijacking of the Animal Kingdom and the Animal Holocaust; it's not good for you (cancer, sickness) and it's nt good for the poor animals! (killed)

Animals ARE NOT CREATED FOR FOOD![/b]
 Quoting: Veggie guy 579266



So anyone anything that eats meat is wrong?
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2009 08:05 AM
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Re: Were Humans Meant to Eat Meat?
then explain to me why i have these fang like teeth in my mouth called canine teeth? they ain't for eating veggies!
 Quoting: joejoe

Gorillas has fangs and they sare till strictly veggies.

Look at the apes; why are they so damn intelligent and full of muscles although they don't eat fish "for brain" only tasty, juicy veggie products from Nature.
You KNOW IN YOUR HEART that you're not a carnivore...only trained by Darkness to be that way! (To be a sick, bad-breathed carcass eater...lol)

Please stop eating animals; they are not "food"!
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2009 08:05 AM
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Re: Were Humans Meant to Eat Meat?
We are MEANT to eat meat.
Vegetarianism is NWO propaganda.
You would think that atleast some of the elite would be vegies if it really was so good for you.
BTW the Evolution theory is a lie.
Our bodies( not souls) were genetically modified by ETs.
They mixed their own DNA with DNA from proto-humans that lived on earth many thousands of years ago.
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2009 08:08 AM
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Re: Were Humans Meant to Eat Meat?
The answer is simple: Look at the apes/simians!
The gorillas eating only a few leaves a day yet they are full of muscles; the simians are mainly VEGGIES so I guess humans should build their diet on healthy diary products, veggies, fruits, nuts.

Humans are sooo stupid; they support the DAILY HOLOCAUST of innocent animals (pigs, chickens, cows etc.) yet they babbling about "peace & love"!
If you want peace then stop supporting the hijacking of the Animal Kingdom and the Animal Holocaust; it's not good for you (cancer, sickness) and it's nt good for the poor animals! (killed)

Animals ARE NOT CREATED FOR FOOD![/b]



So anyone anything that eats meat is wrong?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 565455

According to Cosmic Laws, yes! I only want to tell the big Truth...you have the Free Will not to listen and continue the support for the Animal Holocaust.

Carnivorious animals suffer too but it's their destiny...humans can CHOOSE not to do the WRONG thing!
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2009 08:09 AM
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Re: Were Humans Meant to Eat Meat?
As further evidence, Roberts cites the carnivore’s short intestinal tract, which reaches about three times its body length. An herbivore’s intestines are 12 times its body length, and humans are closer to herbivores, he says.

“Dairy foods are definitely not a natural part of our diet,” contends vegetarian dietitian and author Virginia Messina, who fields the public’s nutritional questions at www.VegRD.com. “We only started consuming them about 10,000 years ago, which is very recent in our evolution. Our physiology suggests that we really did not evolve to consume dairy beyond early childhood.”

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 638193


Breaking news :

There are more alimentary habits than just 2 in the animal kingdom !

If you believe every living being is classified as either :
- eating meat
- eating grass

You're stoopid !!!

What is then : insectivore, frugivore, omnivore, necrophagous, etc... ?

Breaking news II :

Cow milk (because of course human milk is good for you) is not a "natural part of our diet". There are no such thing as "natural part of our diet", only "cultural part of our diet". You don't need to look back 10.000 years in the past to find people not suited for cow milk. Just look in Asia !

Any human is bond to its genetic heritage, were the diet is also taken into account. You need certain bacteria to digest certain food.

Are americans equipped to eat like chineses ? No

Are ethiopians equipped to eat like americans ? No

Are the guys from the OP idiots ? Yes.
CelticLegends

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05/28/2009 08:11 AM

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Re: Were Humans Meant to Eat Meat?
I'd go with omnivore.

When your usual food source runs dry, you're bound to try something new.

I'm not sure we dispose of livestock in a good way, but that's another thread I think.
It is the Thunderbolt that steers the Universe
- Heraclitus
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2009 08:13 AM
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Re: Were Humans Meant to Eat Meat?
yer an idiot.


were humans meant to go 100mph?

When comparing humans to cars, it is noted that humans have feet, whereas cars, have wheels. The average human puts out about 1/2 horsepower or less whereas cars can have 100's.

Dr. Neal D. Barnard, PCRM’s founder and president, says humans lack the raw abilities to be good hunters. “We are not quick, like cats, hawks or other predators,” he says. “It was not until the advent of arrowheads, hatchets and other implements that killing and capturing prey became possible.”

Answer:

we weren't designed to go 100mph, but our brains allowed us to achieve this

we were designed to eat meat, because we do and can, and we gain nutrients from it. Saying we have to cook it is proof otherwise is ridiculous..... because we cook it!

Dr Neal Barnard is DR. Idiot. To be able to make a statement saying that we lack the raw abilties to be good hunters ignores our best ability, which is our brain ya big nummy.

I am not a vegetarian or pro meat or otherwise, but the stupidity of peoples reasoning is crazy.

Summary of their argument: Ignoring the fact of the brain and history, physically people are more aligned to eating vegetables than meat.

It's about the same as saying, ignoring that gun in your hand, I could kill you with my bare fists.
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2009 08:15 AM
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Re: Were Humans Meant to Eat Meat?
We are MEANT to eat meat.
Vegetarianism is NWO propaganda.
You would think that atleast some of the elite would be vegies if it really was so good for you.
BTW the Evolution theory is a lie.
Our bodies( not souls) were genetically modified by ETs.
They mixed their own DNA with DNA from proto-humans that lived on earth many thousands of years ago.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 466346

You spread INSANE LIES!

Look at the monkeys!

Why are there herbivorious animals at all then???

Look at the Gorillas! Do they eat meat?
Would humans die without meat?
I'm a beautiful veggie guy; stopped eating meat 24 years ago and I look like a god full of muscles and a sharp brain! LOL

MEAT EATING IS AN ILLUMINATI PROPAGANDA; THEY DON'T NEED SHARP, HEALTHY INDIVIDUALS; THEY CAN'T SELL PILLS TO VEGGIES.

Please help to stop the Animal Holocaust by being a veggie; there are more protein in a peanut than in a large amount of meat.
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2009 08:16 AM
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Re: Were Humans Meant to Eat Meat?
The answer is simple: Look at the apes/simians!
The gorillas eating only a few leaves a day yet they are full of muscles; the simians are mainly VEGGIES so I guess humans should build their diet on healthy diary products, veggies, fruits, nuts.

Humans are sooo stupid; they support the DAILY HOLOCAUST of innocent animals (pigs, chickens, cows etc.) yet they babbling about "peace & love"!
If you want peace then stop supporting the hijacking of the Animal Kingdom and the Animal Holocaust; it's not good for you (cancer, sickness) and it's nt good for the poor animals! (killed)

Animals ARE NOT CREATED FOR FOOD![/b]
 Quoting: Veggie guy 579266


But still you promote their enslavement....

You do know that they suffer mostly by being strapped for producing milk, don't you?

And you are viciously against eating them, but enslavement is OK?

At least with meat, you can have the animal have a decent outdoors life, while the dairy cows are inside all the time, no movement, constant infections,....

But sure, go ahead and delude yourself that one is better than the other.


POint is, without animal products, we wouldn't live past 40.
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2009 08:16 AM
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Re: Were Humans Meant to Eat Meat?
yes, we have two sharp fucking teeth, which is meant fro tearing up meat..
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 565455


Not as big and sharp as a Gorillas and they are 95% vegetarian, the other 5% being grubs and insects sticking to the plant material they eat.
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2009 08:16 AM
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Re: Were Humans Meant to Eat Meat?
The answer is simple: Look at the apes/simians!
The gorillas eating only a few leaves a day yet they are full of muscles; the simians are mainly VEGGIES so I guess humans should build their diet on healthy diary products, veggies, fruits, nuts.

Humans are sooo stupid; they support the DAILY HOLOCAUST of innocent animals (pigs, chickens, cows etc.) yet they babbling about "peace & love"!
If you want peace then stop supporting the hijacking of the Animal Kingdom and the Animal Holocaust; it's not good for you (cancer, sickness) and it's nt good for the poor animals! (killed)

Animals ARE NOT CREATED FOR FOOD![/b]



So anyone anything that eats meat is wrong?

According to Cosmic Laws, yes! I only want to tell the big Truth...you have the Free Will not to listen and continue the support for the Animal Holocaust.

Carnivorious animals suffer too but it's their destiny...humans can CHOOSE not to do the WRONG thing!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 579266


I say that you should not continue the Vegetable Holocaust, after all plants are alive too. All animals should just stop eating and die. Life feeds on life moron, that's how nature works. You can not live, unless something else dies.
Richard Strong

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05/28/2009 08:16 AM
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Re: Were Humans Meant to Eat Meat?
The answer is simple: Look at the apes/simians!
The gorillas eating only a few leaves a day yet they are full of muscles; the simians are mainly VEGGIES so I guess humans should build their diet on healthy diary products, veggies, fruits, nuts.

Humans are sooo stupid; they support the DAILY HOLOCAUST of innocent animals (pigs, chickens, cows etc.) yet they babbling about "peace & love"!
If you want peace then stop supporting the hijacking of the Animal Kingdom and the Animal Holocaust; it's not good for you (cancer, sickness) and it's nt good for the poor animals! (killed)

Animals ARE NOT CREATED FOR FOOD![/b]



So anyone anything that eats meat is wrong?

According to Cosmic Laws, yes! I only want to tell the big Truth...you have the Free Will not to listen and continue the support for the Animal Holocaust.

Carnivorious animals suffer too but it's their destiny...humans can CHOOSE not to do the WRONG thing!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 579266

bsflag
I am Richardus Strongus. Father to a murdered 'Refreshtard' thread, Husband to a deleted Top 10 thread. I will have my vengeance on the Lightworkers ..in this life or the next.
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2009 08:22 AM
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Re: Were Humans Meant to Eat Meat?
We are MEANT to eat meat.
Vegetarianism is NWO propaganda.
You would think that atleast some of the elite would be vegies if it really was so good for you.
BTW the Evolution theory is a lie.
Our bodies( not souls) were genetically modified by ETs.
They mixed their own DNA with DNA from proto-humans that lived on earth many thousands of years ago.

You spread INSANE LIES!

Look at the monkeys!

Why are there herbivorious animals at all then???

Look at the Gorillas! Do they eat meat?
Would humans die without meat?
I'm a beautiful veggie guy; stopped eating meat 24 years ago and I look like a god full of muscles and a sharp brain! LOL

MEAT EATING IS AN ILLUMINATI PROPAGANDA; THEY DON'T NEED SHARP, HEALTHY INDIVIDUALS; THEY CAN'T SELL PILLS TO VEGGIES.

Please help to stop the Animal Holocaust by being a veggie; there are more protein in a peanut than in a large amount of meat.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 579266


We may be veggies now that we can find quorn and supplements to keep a healthy diet even without meat/fish.

Go tell the africans they need only weeds and roots now.

Not everyone has the luck to find so many vegetables from all around the world in one supermarket.

It's not about eating meat or vegetables. It is about having varied sources of nutrients. If you cannot find vegetables were you live, you have to find something else to adapt.

You may have a sharp brain, but your logic is centered around your habits. Open your mind and consider the humans as a whole.
bill shitters

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05/28/2009 08:24 AM

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Re: Were Humans Meant to Eat Meat?
so from the start the back passage is to short for a veggy but way to long for a meat eater to be of any use

but in the gut you have usful things in there to help digest stuff try feed a veggy a sausage roll and see how sick they feel but in time all will be well

red meat has been noted to give the comon dude bum cancer may be we forgot the old wisdom of the meat and 2 veg thing to keep the bad stuf moving
The retired thread killer


Still the killa of threads

we come in peace shoot to kill
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I can not talk TO aliens but do listen to the anally probed
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2009 08:25 AM
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Re: Were Humans Meant to Eat Meat?
You can say of course what your corrupt scientists say...but there are the hidden laws of the Universe that say: You shall not kill! (or support killing)

Unfortunately for the meat eaters this law applies to them also no matter what your professor says.

Meat is a "dead food"; look at it how it decomposes into extremely TOXIC components for God's sake...and it does it in YOUR stomach filling it with unspeakable "things".

I would admit that we may have been programmed genetically to eat meat but it was an evil program only to keep us in a state of eternal suffering; the Anunnaki needed strong and stupid slaves in their mines...
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2009 08:27 AM
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Re: Were Humans Meant to Eat Meat?
You can say of course what your corrupt scientists say...but there are the hidden laws of the Universe that say: You shall not kill! (or support killing)

Unfortunately for the meat eaters this law applies to them also no matter what your professor says.

Meat is a "dead food"; look at it how it decomposes into extremely TOXIC components for God's sake...and it does it in YOUR stomach filling it with unspeakable "things".

I would admit that we may have been programmed genetically to eat meat but it was an evil program only to keep us in a state of eternal suffering; the Anunnaki needed strong and stupid slaves in their mines...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 579266



If the law of the Universe "You shall not kill" means you can never ever kill an animal. YOU ARE A KILLER TOO !

Prove me that you never crushed a fly or an ant you idiot.
Raw Meat Eater
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05/28/2009 08:28 AM
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Re: Were Humans Meant to Eat Meat?
Humans are meant to eat RAW MEAT.
RAW MEAT.
RAW MEAT.

Stupid vegans always pointing to the eating of COOKED MEAT.
What idiots.

Eat RAW fruit, RAW meat and some RAW vegetables. Be the healthiest you can be.

Veganism is a f*cking LIE. It does not work. Never worked. Go vegan and your blood line dies. You want to be a monk with zero sex drive? Go vegan. Nitwits.

[link to www.curemanual.com]
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2009 08:29 AM
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Re: Were Humans Meant to Eat Meat?
Its indisputable that humans are meant to eat meat.

Your article presents a dichotomy of carnivore vs. herbivore evading the reality... which is that we are omnivores.

Veganism is a choice, not better or worse.
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2009 08:32 AM
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Re: Were Humans Meant to Eat Meat?
The answer is simple: Look at the apes/simians!
The gorillas eating only a few leaves a day yet they are full of muscles; the simians are mainly VEGGIES so I guess humans should build their diet on healthy diary products, veggies, fruits, nuts.

Humans are sooo stupid; they support the DAILY HOLOCAUST of innocent animals (pigs, chickens, cows etc.) yet they babbling about "peace & love"!
If you want peace then stop supporting the hijacking of the Animal Kingdom and the Animal Holocaust; it's not good for you (cancer, sickness) and it's nt good for the poor animals! (killed)

Animals ARE NOT CREATED FOR FOOD![/b]
 Quoting: Veggie guy 579266


Food chain my friend, food chain. All animals are meant to be food to whatever other animal/creature is higher then them. Natural selections a bitch but hey, what can ya do? If I was eatin tomorro it's because I wasn't strong enough to live. One more time for the dumbass's FOOD CHAIN. =)