"Paul was a deceiver. A Study of the Letters to the 7 churches"

Wrong-- was Peter also deceived? Peter addresses Paul specifically in 1 Peter I believe.

The Lord is not the author of confusion. People spreading junk like this is typical of satan- trying to cause doubt and confusion about God´s Word.

Revelation was also written after the other books-- after Paul had been martyred.

Paul addressed as well issues with some of these churches- that were the points of many of his letters. Whether the individual churches took his correction seriously or not would be another topic, maybe covered by an early historian.

Paul was NOT a deceiver. read your bible carefully.

Oh Yeah! You are on target! Let´s follow Jesus. Let me post this as a complement to you analysis.

I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. (Rom. 7:25)

Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever (John 8:34-35)

For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.(rom. 4:2-5) (If you sin it doesn´t matter because you are under grace, but if yo do the works of the law you are the only sinner according to Paul)

Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham´s children, ye would do the works of Abraham. But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. (John 8:39-40)

For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; (eph 2:14-15)

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Mat. 5:17-19)

All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. (1 cor.6:12)

And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. (Mat 5:29)

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. (Gal. 5:4)

And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Mat:19-17)

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. (Rom 3:28)

For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. (Mat. 16:27)

Paul also teached some new and surprising doctrines.

Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. (Gal. 5:2)

Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. (1 Cor. 11:4-6)

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. (1 tim. 11:12)

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. (1 cor. 14:34-37) (I haven´t read this commandment in the law. Doesn´t say Paul that we must not follow the Law)

Paul also says that he is the father and the son:

For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. (1 Cor 4:15)

But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother´s womb, and called me by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: (gal. 1:15-16)

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. (Mat. 23:9)

We must seek what Jesus taught and not what Paul taught, because paul contradict Jesus.

Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. (John 8:31-32)

I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: (rev 2:2)

For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? (rom 3:7)

But be it so, I did not burden you: nevertheless, being crafty, I caught you with guile. (2 cor 12:16)

The Bible itself is the Deciever.

There is no need to address this absurd allegation.

The OP has an eclectic belief sytem which permits her to choose which portion of scripure is to be melded with heathen constructs.

op is double agent

absurd, unreasonable

inconsistent with reason or logic or common sense

this like the sacrifice thread are donna doctrine.

Nothwithstanding any objections by the OP to the contrary, she has already made her decision to believe in the eclectic fashion and nothing is going to persuade her otherwise.

her choice to rip the bible to pieces...her responsibility...

You guys are fast readers! (smile)

Donna

why should i read something of which i KNOW is not true? for me it is 100% sure that Paul was NOT a deceiver. so no room for statements otherwise.

Interesting....


What´s even more interesting is the hostility of some of the responding posts. Hmmm...judgemental hostitlity is in direct conflict with the love that Jesus taught.

It seems easier to have opinions.

I see no one here so far who has addressed the legitimacy the the issues she raised...
On any point. Why NOT? I am curious myself and see nothing wrong at all in what Donna asks.

I really don´t. Haven´t we all been around the block enough to know the estabishment lies.

I am not saying the whole of the Bible is in error but portions maybe and it isn´t whimisical chosing as someone else has offered but hard and earnest study.

This is what Paul does to his followers.

stargazer, you´re right about the hostilities, my apologies donna.

dee, do a google, there´s plenty of material on the net about this issue.

i myself had enough of discussions about paul, over three months someone starts again and again and again.

Judgementalism is actually a fine thing for it permits the discriminating person to dispense with nonsense that claims one plus one equals anything except two.

This thread is absurd for this aproximate reason. But don´t take my word for it. Waste some time here and learn futility.

*This is what Paul does to his followers.*

no, this is what people themselves choose to do...

The Essene Church of Christ would agree with you for the most part.

Yahshua (Jesus) or Paul? (Article by Rev. Brother Nazariah

[link to www.essene.org]

Here is the document they consider to be the valid new testament. "The Gospel of the Holy Twelve"
[link to www.thenazareneway.com]

Much of Paul´s writting can be found in this document. Who copied who?

Thomas Jefferson would agree too.
"Paul was the first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus" -- Thomas Jefferson

Also the book "Bible Fraud" mentions an entry in the Jewish Talmed that says Paul corrupted the teachings of Jesus.

I find it intriguing because even as a child studying the Bible, I´ve had a problem with some of Paul´s teachings as they seem to be in conflict with Jesus.

And, now that you mention it - did Jesus ever say anything about replacing Judas with another Apostle?

AC 2:05 I accept your apology. After all, for 66 years, I believed as you believe...and NO ONE could have convinced me to listen during all of that time.

One comfirmation to me that this study of of the Holy Spirit is this: When I first started this study, the right things seemed to come into my mind on what to search for. When I started this study, Idid not know that what I would find would convince me that Paul was a deceiver.

When I snapped at Kay for her posts, the Holy Spirit made me feel uneasy...I knew I was not showing the love that Jesus said to show. From then on, it seemed that nothing I put in the search engine helped me in my study.

After I posted the apology to Kay, it seemed like the right things came into my mind to search for..for instance, what Gnotics believed in. From then on, the study went smoothly.

Donna

well said star gazer

interesting indeed.

since i was a little girl my father has had this saying . . .

"said peter to paul - brother - that´s all. that´s all."

Why do I get the feeling Donna is Lester?

i wouldn´t know donna from peter or lester from paul . . .

how DO y´all keep track?

>>>And, now that you mention it - did Jesus ever say anything about replacing Judas with another Apostle?>>>

Star Gazer, I don´t believe Jesus did, however, Paul was not a replactment for Judas. Mattias (sp) was the replacement for Judas, per the diciples.

I too wonder all of my life why Pauls doctrine had so much variance with Jesus´ and later on in the NT, with James, Peter, and John´s. And the letters to the churches.....well they really had me stumped, as they did not sound like the "grace" that paul preached.

Dee, thanks for your support of my right to "seek"´ the truth.
Donna

Since I have had uneasiness and questions about certain portions of the New Testament and translations - I have chosen to stick with exactly what Jesus himself taught and not any of his followers interpretations. When I read HIS words, there is no doubt.

For those who worship the KJB rather than God, let me say you that the Bible, and concretely the New Testament has been manipulated. They have added things, supressed others. they have mistranslated most passages. The first thing we have to learn is that we must seek God in our hearts. It has been always the same. We must learn to recognise his voice. In the beggining there was not a Bible. Most people didn´t had any scriptures. The people of God knowed what God wanted.
Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12 It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, "Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?" 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, "Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?" 14 No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.
15 See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. 16 For I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws; then you will live and increase, and the LORD your God will bless you in the land you are entering to possess.
17 But if your heart turns away and you are not obedient, and if you are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them, 18 I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed. You will not live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess. (Deu 30)

< Paul was not a replactment for Judas. Mattias (sp) was the replacement for Judas, per the diciples.>

So right! I´d forgotton about that. So where did Paul get the idea that he was an Apostle?

i don´t say that scriptures are not useful. We must read the scriptures every day. Let me recommend you one that was not considered inspired by God by the catholic church.

[link to www.pseudepigrapha.com]