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Is Killing Pregnant Woman a Double Murder?

 
Lump of Tissue
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05/31/2009 08:45 PM
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Is Killing Pregnant Woman a Double Murder?
Is Killing Pregnant Woman a Double Murder?

Gee ... let me think ... hmm how about it is just murder if the baby is loved but if the mother was going to kill it any way then it isn't murder. I think that would stand up in court.

Federal lawmakers are considering a controversial bill that would make it a crime to injure or kill a fetus during the commission of a federal violent crime against a pregnant woman.

The bill, which sponsors are calling "Laci and Connor's law" is backed by Sharon Rocha, the mother of Laci Peterson, who was eight months pregnant when she was slain in California in 2002. Scott Peterson, her widower, is being charged both with Laci's slaying, and the slaying of their unborn son, Connor, because California is one of 29 states with so-called fetal homicide laws.

Supporters of the federal bill say that it helps tighten up federal criminal code. But opponents charge that the bill is all about abortion politics and that supporters are exploiting the Peterson murder. The proposed law grants "personhood" status to a fetus, and would be the first time that federal law established individual legal rights for a fetus, separate from those enjoyed by the mother.

[link to abcnews.go.com]
Anonymous Coward
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05/31/2009 08:48 PM
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Re: Is Killing Pregnant Woman a Double Murder?
Pro-Choice means people want to be able to choose which lives have value, and which are disposable.
Anonymous Coward
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05/31/2009 08:49 PM
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Re: Is Killing Pregnant Woman a Double Murder?
Well, according to a particular Autistic spastic on this board, it isn't.

Wouldn't you just love to be with a 'lady' that thinks that 'lump of tissue' is something to be tossed in a dumpster behind the hospital?

hf
Anonymous Coward
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05/31/2009 08:51 PM
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Re: Is Killing Pregnant Woman a Double Murder?
Pro-Choice means people want to be able to choose which lives have value, and which are disposable.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 691727


What if I told you every man woman and child in your country would die unless you pressed the red button to nuke Tonga?
Would you do it?

Who assigns value to a life?
All is not equal.
You do not value the life of a child in the Sudan as higly as you value your mothers life, correct?
Winningjob

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05/31/2009 08:53 PM
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Re: Is Killing Pregnant Woman a Double Murder?
OP, I can not "TELL" you what is right or wrong for you. Also, I can not legally advise you on matter pertaining to the law as the law does change and I know nothing of your circumstance.
Anonymous Coward
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05/31/2009 08:53 PM
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Re: Is Killing Pregnant Woman a Double Murder?
Pro-Choice means people want to be able to choose which lives have value, and which are disposable.


What if I told you every man woman and child in your country would die unless you pressed the red button to nuke Tonga?
Would you do it?

Who assigns value to a life?
All is not equal.
You do not value the life of a child in the Sudan as higly as you value your mothers life, correct?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 691583

Tonga population 119,000
USA population 300,000,000

That's a simple numbers equation. Whose needs are greater, the many or the few?
Anonymous Coward
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05/31/2009 08:54 PM
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Re: Is Killing Pregnant Woman a Double Murder?
One shot, two kills:
[link to news.sky.com]
Anonymous Coward
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05/31/2009 08:55 PM
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Re: Is Killing Pregnant Woman a Double Murder?
What if I told you every man woman and child in your country would die unless you pressed the red button to nuke Tonga?
Would you do it?

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 691583


No, I would not do it. And the person doing the killing would be responsible for a genocide.
Anonymous Coward
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05/31/2009 08:57 PM
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Re: Is Killing Pregnant Woman a Double Murder?
Yet, If that same mother went to the doctor and killed that same fetus, it is called a medical procedure. And it's none of your business.
Andromeda

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05/31/2009 09:16 PM
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Re: Is Killing Pregnant Woman a Double Murder?
Well, according to a particular Autistic spastic on this board, it isn't.

Wouldn't you just love to be with a 'lady' that thinks that 'lump of tissue' is something to be tossed in a dumpster behind the hospital?

hf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 683108

LOL. Your "religious" moral view sounds doubly hypocritical given your bigoted hate speech.

Continue with your low sniping and bitching. You shed light on the ignorant haters who are behind the anti-abortion movement.
Andromeda

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05/31/2009 09:17 PM
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Re: Is Killing Pregnant Woman a Double Murder?
Pro-Choice means people want to be able to choose which lives have value, and which are disposable.


What if I told you every man woman and child in your country would die unless you pressed the red button to nuke Tonga?
Would you do it?

Who assigns value to a life?
All is not equal.
You do not value the life of a child in the Sudan as higly as you value your mothers life, correct?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 691583

The bigoted haters who are "anti-abortion" don't give a damn about people in the Sudan or real living people.

It would be ideal for bigots like OP to value the life of the dead fetus but ignore the life of the dead mother.

Last Edited by Andromeda on 05/31/2009 09:18 PM
Anonymous Coward
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05/31/2009 09:18 PM
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Re: Is Killing Pregnant Woman a Double Murder?
Well, according to a particular Autistic spastic on this board, it isn't.

Wouldn't you just love to be with a 'lady' that thinks that 'lump of tissue' is something to be tossed in a dumpster behind the hospital?

hf

LOL. Your "religious" moral view sounds doubly hypocritical given your bigoted hate speech.

Continue with your low sniping and bitching. You shed light on the ignorant haters who are behind the anti-abortion movement.
 Quoting: Andromeda


Well, he does have a valid point...even if he were an atheist instead of anything else.

Would you trust a woman like that?
Andromeda

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05/31/2009 09:21 PM
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Re: Is Killing Pregnant Woman a Double Murder?
Well, according to a particular Autistic spastic on this board, it isn't.

Wouldn't you just love to be with a 'lady' that thinks that 'lump of tissue' is something to be tossed in a dumpster behind the hospital?

hf

LOL. Your "religious" moral view sounds doubly hypocritical given your bigoted hate speech.

Continue with your low sniping and bitching. You shed light on the ignorant haters who are behind the anti-abortion movement.


Well, he does have a valid point...even if he were an atheist instead of anything else.

Would you trust a woman like that?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 239210

I would trust a woman to make a decision about her own body over giving that decision over to the state.

Would you trust the state to make decisions like that?

And OP doesn't have a valid point, he's too ignorant to even know about the law he's posting about. You can't comment on the substance of an opening post that ignorant about its own topic. I'm not even going to explain what's wrong with his post.
Jackinthebox

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05/31/2009 09:24 PM
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Re: Is Killing Pregnant Woman a Double Murder?
I think that if you murder a woman who is pregnant, the death of the fetus should be considered manslaughter, since there was no pre-meditation in the killing of the fetus.

But since the fetus died as the result of a felony, as opposed to the private rights of parents, that it should be a crime IF the woman is more than six months pregnant, thereby validating the fetus as a viable embryo.
When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, "Come!" I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand.

Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, "A quart of wheat for a day's wages, and three quarts of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!"


-Revelation 6:5, 6:6
Doctor What
Yeah...yeah and thrice yeah

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05/31/2009 09:29 PM

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Re: Is Killing Pregnant Woman a Double Murder?
I believe it is a double murder, yes.

I made a thread about this subject a while ago:

Thread: If you attack a pregnant woman & the baby dies, is it murder?
The chariots of God are tens of thousands, and thousands of thousands.
Anonymous Coward
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05/31/2009 09:30 PM
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Re: Is Killing Pregnant Woman a Double Murder?
Well, according to a particular Autistic spastic on this board, it isn't.

Wouldn't you just love to be with a 'lady' that thinks that 'lump of tissue' is something to be tossed in a dumpster behind the hospital?

hf

LOL. Your "religious" moral view sounds doubly hypocritical given your bigoted hate speech.

Continue with your low sniping and bitching. You shed light on the ignorant haters who are behind the anti-abortion movement.


Well, he does have a valid point...even if he were an atheist instead of anything else.

Would you trust a woman like that?

I would trust a woman to make a decision about her own body over giving that decision over to the state.

Would you trust the state to make decisions like that?

And OP doesn't have a valid point, he's too ignorant to even know about the law he's posting about. You can't comment on the substance of an opening post that ignorant about its own topic. I'm not even going to explain what's wrong with his post.
 Quoting: Andromeda


No, this is about the woman being trusted to have a solid foundation of protecting the innocent. No one wants to date the state. I do not trust any person whom I would not resonate highly with.

And no state can stop you from killing anything. But I can at least trust they can make it far more difficult for killing to occur and levy a fair consequence.
Anonymous Coward
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05/31/2009 09:33 PM
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Re: Is Killing Pregnant Woman a Double Murder?
Well, according to a particular Autistic spastic on this board, it isn't.

Wouldn't you just love to be with a 'lady' that thinks that 'lump of tissue' is something to be tossed in a dumpster behind the hospital?

hf

LOL. Your "religious" moral view sounds doubly hypocritical given your bigoted hate speech.

Continue with your low sniping and bitching. You shed light on the ignorant haters who are behind the anti-abortion movement.
 Quoting: Andromeda


I'm not 'religious', rainwoman. I just happen to have a normal set of emotions and common sense, unlike your robotic tendancies.

Hey, I'd still rather be autistic, like you, than dead.

sheep
Jackinthebox

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05/31/2009 09:34 PM
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Re: Is Killing Pregnant Woman a Double Murder?
And OP doesn't have a valid point, he's too ignorant to even know about the law he's posting about. You can't comment on the substance of an opening post that ignorant about its own topic. I'm not even going to explain what's wrong with his post.
 Quoting: Andromeda


There certainly are a lot of variables in considering a charge of murder. And obviously it becomes more complex by the fact that a fetus IS NOT A PERSON until it is born.

But it seems that the OP and the government don't want us to consider the letter of the law, and simply hand over even more sweeping powers to the government for arbitrary application.
When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, "Come!" I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand.

Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, "A quart of wheat for a day's wages, and three quarts of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!"


-Revelation 6:5, 6:6
Andromeda

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05/31/2009 09:34 PM
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Re: Is Killing Pregnant Woman a Double Murder?
No, this is about the woman being trusted to have a solid foundation of protecting the innocent. No one wants to date the state. I do not trust any person whom I would not resonate highly with.

And no state can stop you from killing anything. But I can at least trust they can make it far more difficult for killing to occur and levy a fair consequence.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 239210

How can you trust any women, then, if they can't have an abortion? You won't know who is a lethal killer and hater-of-fetuses and who is a good Christian girl who applauds the killing of doctors.

God made free will for a reason. You want to put the state in charge of breeding rules and then all you will have to choose from are slaves and sheep. You won't have to care what kind of person the woman is.

But then, that is what male bigots want women to be, right, slaves and sheep?
Andromeda

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05/31/2009 09:36 PM
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Re: Is Killing Pregnant Woman a Double Murder?
I'm not 'religious', rainwoman. I just happen to have a normal set of emotions and common sense, unlike your robotic tendancies.

Hey, I'd still rather be autistic, like you, than dead.

sheep
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 683108

"normal set of emotions" = screwball right-wing hater
"common sense" = no education

I'd rather be a robot than an ignorant asshole.
Anonymous Coward
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05/31/2009 09:41 PM
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Re: Is Killing Pregnant Woman a Double Murder?
No, this is about the woman being trusted to have a solid foundation of protecting the innocent. No one wants to date the state. I do not trust any person whom I would not resonate highly with.

And no state can stop you from killing anything. But I can at least trust they can make it far more difficult for killing to occur and levy a fair consequence.

How can you trust any women, then, if they can't have an abortion? You won't know who is a lethal killer and hater-of-fetuses and who is a good Christian girl who applauds the killing of doctors.

God made free will for a reason. You want to put the state in charge of breeding rules and then all you will have to choose from are slaves and sheep. You won't have to care what kind of person the woman is.

But then, that is what male bigots want women to be, right, slaves and sheep?
 Quoting: Andromeda


But I just wrote that she is free to have an abortion but there will consequences.

Have you also ever considered, that instead of promoting abortion, that we remove the availability of the various tools to abort (make it harder to do) and focus more on healing the mind and the heart instead?

Do you want to solve the REAL trouble? Well I agree it's not only about abortions but still, we should not make it readily available or acceptable.

It should be at the very least, an EXTREME exception.
Anonymous Coward
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05/31/2009 09:41 PM
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Re: Is Killing Pregnant Woman a Double Murder?
I'm not 'religious', rainwoman. I just happen to have a normal set of emotions and common sense, unlike your robotic tendancies.

Hey, I'd still rather be autistic, like you, than dead.

sheep

"normal set of emotions" = screwball right-wing hater
"common sense" = no education

I'd rather be a robot than an ignorant asshole.
 Quoting: Andromeda


Thank you for finally admiting your extremely NARROW frame of reference, and inability to distinguish casual debate with political rhetoric.

So what other damage did the massive amount of vaccinations cause to your psych.??

sheep
Andromeda

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05/31/2009 09:43 PM
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Re: Is Killing Pregnant Woman a Double Murder?
I think that if you murder a woman who is pregnant, the death of the fetus should be considered manslaughter, since there was no pre-meditation in the killing of the fetus.

But since the fetus died as the result of a felony, as opposed to the private rights of parents, that it should be a crime IF the woman is more than six months pregnant, thereby validating the fetus as a viable embryo.
 Quoting: Jackinthebox

Having the double-murder law is useful in that it protects both the mother and pregnancy, in cases where the husband/father would kill the woman who is pregnant, like Scott Peterson did, to get rid of a future he didn't want.

That law recognizes that sometimes a woman is a target for attack simply because she is pregnant.
Andromeda

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05/31/2009 09:45 PM
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Re: Is Killing Pregnant Woman a Double Murder?
I'm not 'religious', rainwoman. I just happen to have a normal set of emotions and common sense, unlike your robotic tendancies.

Hey, I'd still rather be autistic, like you, than dead.

sheep

"normal set of emotions" = screwball right-wing hater
"common sense" = no education

I'd rather be a robot than an ignorant asshole.


Thank you for finally admiting your extremely NARROW frame of reference, and inability to distinguish casual debate with political rhetoric.

So what other damage did the massive amount of vaccinations cause to your psych.??

sheep
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 683108

First of all, there is no debate without a point and your bigoted trolling doesn't quality as debate. And your trolling is neither "political rhetoric" nor is it "casual debate", it's just low class sniping.
Anonymous Coward
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05/31/2009 09:46 PM
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Re: Is Killing Pregnant Woman a Double Murder?
I think that if you murder a woman who is pregnant, the death of the fetus should be considered manslaughter, since there was no pre-meditation in the killing of the fetus.

But since the fetus died as the result of a felony, as opposed to the private rights of parents, that it should be a crime IF the woman is more than six months pregnant, thereby validating the fetus as a viable embryo.

Having the double-murder law is useful in that it protects both the mother and pregnancy, in cases where the husband/father would kill the woman who is pregnant, like Scott Peterson did, to get rid of a future he didn't want.

That law recognizes that sometimes a woman is a target for attack simply because she is pregnant.
 Quoting: Andromeda


So u think it's a good law to have for practicality in protecting the woman ???????

Does that not go against your ideas of the State not interfering?
Anonymous Coward
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05/31/2009 09:47 PM
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Re: Is Killing Pregnant Woman a Double Murder?
I think that if you murder a woman who is pregnant, the death of the fetus should be considered manslaughter, since there was no pre-meditation in the killing of the fetus.

But since the fetus died as the result of a felony, as opposed to the private rights of parents, that it should be a crime IF the woman is more than six months pregnant, thereby validating the fetus as a viable embryo.

Having the double-murder law is useful in that it protects both the mother and pregnancy, in cases where the husband/father would kill the woman who is pregnant, like Scott Peterson did, to get rid of a future he didn't want.

That law recognizes that sometimes a woman is a target for attack simply because she is pregnant.
 Quoting: Andromeda


You do realize that you just completely and utterly OWNED YOURSELF, right?

lmao

sheep
Andromeda

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05/31/2009 09:48 PM
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Re: Is Killing Pregnant Woman a Double Murder?
And OP doesn't have a valid point, he's too ignorant to even know about the law he's posting about. You can't comment on the substance of an opening post that ignorant about its own topic. I'm not even going to explain what's wrong with his post.


There certainly are a lot of variables in considering a charge of murder. And obviously it becomes more complex by the fact that a fetus IS NOT A PERSON until it is born.

But it seems that the OP and the government don't want us to consider the letter of the law, and simply hand over even more sweeping powers to the government for arbitrary application.
 Quoting: Jackinthebox

Bush was able to dismantle much of the United States during his term. He undermined many rights and crippled a lot of American institutions.

He's probably done more than any other president in history to undermine the legal notion of an implied right to privacy. He did this with the Patriot's Act, the Gitmo and torture memoranda, and the supposedly pro-life laws and actions he made.

Being a citizen of America is not the same thing it was 9 years ago; our rights have been stripped in several ways.
LURKING

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05/31/2009 09:48 PM
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Re: Is Killing Pregnant Woman a Double Murder?
Tonga population 119,000
USA population 300,000,000

That's a simple numbers equation. Whose needs are greater, the many or the few?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 691727


China -> 1,338,612,968 (July 2009 est.)
"The Truth is so valuable that it must be protected with a bodyguard of lies"

Winston Churchill

Punted from GLP for the last time by unresponsive mods. Have gone to greener pastures where there is more professionalism.
Anonymous Coward
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05/31/2009 09:49 PM
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Re: Is Killing Pregnant Woman a Double Murder?
In my local area a young woman was 8 1/2 months along. Guy on meth was in a hi speed chase with cops. He hit and killed the mom. The baby was delivered and lived for a while then died from injuries.

The DA went after him for both murders. The courts here in Colorado ruled the baby was not yet a person. So he could not be charged.
Andromeda

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05/31/2009 09:50 PM
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Re: Is Killing Pregnant Woman a Double Murder?
I think that if you murder a woman who is pregnant, the death of the fetus should be considered manslaughter, since there was no pre-meditation in the killing of the fetus.

But since the fetus died as the result of a felony, as opposed to the private rights of parents, that it should be a crime IF the woman is more than six months pregnant, thereby validating the fetus as a viable embryo.

Having the double-murder law is useful in that it protects both the mother and pregnancy, in cases where the husband/father would kill the woman who is pregnant, like Scott Peterson did, to get rid of a future he didn't want.

That law recognizes that sometimes a woman is a target for attack simply because she is pregnant.


So u think it's a good law to have for practicality in protecting the woman ???????

Does that not go against your ideas of the State not interfering?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 239210

The law protects a real PERSON.

But no, I don't think it's a good law. Just stating that it has a useful application. I don't support that law.

Last Edited by Andromeda on 05/31/2009 09:51 PM
Jackinthebox

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05/31/2009 09:51 PM
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Re: Is Killing Pregnant Woman a Double Murder?
I think that if you murder a woman who is pregnant, the death of the fetus should be considered manslaughter, since there was no pre-meditation in the killing of the fetus.

But since the fetus died as the result of a felony, as opposed to the private rights of parents, that it should be a crime IF the woman is more than six months pregnant, thereby validating the fetus as a viable embryo.

Having the double-murder law is useful in that it protects both the mother and pregnancy, in cases where the husband/father would kill the woman who is pregnant, like Scott Peterson did, to get rid of a future he didn't want.

That law recognizes that sometimes a woman is a target for attack simply because she is pregnant.
 Quoting: Andromeda


And in a case like that, premeditation is clear, since the culprit clearly knew that the woman was pregnant.

However, it is hypocritical to call it murder when a man does it, but not when a woman does it.
When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, "Come!" I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand.

Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, "A quart of wheat for a day's wages, and three quarts of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!"


-Revelation 6:5, 6:6

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