Why God Allows Suffering Here, the REAL Answer

God, HE Who IS, Has Always Been, Will Always BE; YahWeh, Elohim, Father is not responsible for your feelings, your interpretations, or your expectations.

Let that sink in a while.

There is only one God. Revealed and Made Known to mankind through HIS interaction with certain men and women and through The Witness of HIS Son, Christ Jesus, Yeshua Hamashiach.

The "suffering" you identify, feel, know in your heart results from your alienation from God which is entirely due to your self-willed motivation for living.

When you live outside of HIS Will you are contrary to HIS natural order and ordained flow of life. Naturally you will be miserable and see things that are at variance with what you decide should be as "suffering".

There is no "suffering", not even death, which those who Abide In-HIM feel or are put upon by.

If you would not "suffer" through life, Recognize that only by submission and total surrender to God The Father will you Come Into HIS Accord and find freedom/deliverance In-HIS-Reality.

Ol' Lester ain't gonna lie to you. The world being populated almost entirely by selfish, self-willed humans all alienated from HIM and pursuing their own goals for themselves and trying to control others is a seriously fucked up place. Yet, God Can & Will Deliver those who give themselves Unto HIM from the shit and suffering.

When you live your life In HIS Accord, Know HIM and are able to do HIS Will, suffering is no longer part of your life. You see it in others, in all those who are of-the-world; but Know the cause and how all could be delivered from it.

It is almost like the old Vaudeville joke, the Born-Again understanding of suffering: Guy comes into the doctor's office, says, "Doc, it hurts when I do this!" Doc says, "Don't do dat!"

If you would be free of suffering, give up your life to God.
Acknowledge Christ Jesus,
Admit and repent of your sins,
Claim your share of HIS infinite Grace & Mercy,
Give HIM your life; all of it, the good and the bad,
Ask HIM to send HIS Holy Spirit to Guide your life.

If you are sincere and honest, HE Will!
Otherwise, just be ready to suffer for your art of self-willed living.

You can only grow in character thru suffering.

Think of the people you know who have an easy life, enough money, no problems, good looks, a great marriage....

You think they are so lucky?

Not really.

They are just "simple" - they cannot take any pressure, so they are not given it.

The ones who suffer a lot, they are the ones with the potential to grow.

If you think the world is just what we see here on earth, there there is no way you will ever understand suffering. This world, and our experiences in it, and how we react, is the gateway to the next world. Thru suffering and growing, (and dying) we make it to a better place.

Believe it, or else you will spend a lifetime of suffering about your suffering. Once you understand that suffering is a blessing in disguise, it won't bother you so much.




Exactly, and such Truth puts the LIE on the face of Christianity, hence the reason they all mealy mouth the topic.

1) the perspective from the 'real God'...or 'what is':

nothing real can be harmed. nothing unreal exists. Once this is understood..therein lies the peace of God and his creations...(no more illusions of pain). (only your ego image can be harmed, physical and mental...and it is not real in any way. Let go, and be free(within stillness)...or see #2 below if you wish to continue suffering in delusions.
Consider yourself in a virtual dream world and when you awake from this (at the time that your body dies)you will THEN be aware that no one ever got hurt. No one ever died.
This IS a dream. This IS a dream. In every sense of the word

2) the perspective from the Demigods (the gods of worship)(superbeings):

through adversity comes growth . a 'good' father lets his children suffer in order to grow and evolve...

END OF STORY.

can you find error in this , OP?

I want Mother Earth to become strong.

The further she runs and hides, and refuses to learn herself, the harder she will get hit when the time for it comes.

Wow. We got Lester from his end-time foxhole. Cudos.

ego is a perfect tool when it become more used to looking inward instead of always looking outward. Desire becomes another tool for seeing your beliefs.

I desire this.... but why?

I feel I am lacking this or that?
what makes me wish this?


there are desires to make music, write peotry... and be generally creative.

then there is lust and 'wan: the lying king' and other sexual deviations... you can channel this creative energy where it wants to go, no?

It gets blocked here and there you wonder if you waste it... but it can't be wasted, it is infinite and depletion is impossible. It is just looping.

That's where you use your emotions as tools also... they show you how you are dealing with your desires and if your beliefs are fear based the emotional tools can be in turmoil..

..this is where the suffering comes from.

You can only grow in character thru suffering.

Think of the people you know who have an easy life, enough money, no problems, good looks, a great marriage....

You think they are so lucky?

Not really.

They are just "simple" - they cannot take any pressure, so they are not given it.

The ones who suffer a lot, they are the ones with the potential to grow.

If you think the world is just what we see here on earth, there there is no way you will ever understand suffering. This world, and our experiences in it, and how we react, is the gateway to the next world. Thru suffering and growing, (and dying) we make it to a better place.

Believe it, or else you will spend a lifetime of suffering about your suffering. Once you understand that suffering is a blessing in disguise, it won't bother you so much.


I TOTALLY, TOTALLY AGREE!!

Op thats not the way I see it.

Pain and suffering are a result of separation and forgetfulness of your real self. Pain and suffering are the catalist which pushes you back toward the discover of your true self.

When you suffer enough pain you start looking for answers in the right places. Not outside of yourself.

I find the opposite of what you have stated to actually be true. The closer one comes to an understanding of the true self the less suffering there is. And understanding usually happens with older souls, not young ones. Peace.


Such could never be True, as what you postulate says that the "cake walk" people of the world are the most mature spirits here, something that is patently FALSE through simple observation.



Hello Saxon,

Can you explain what "cake walk" people of the world are? Do mean those that may be considered worldly, or those that sequester themselves from life lessons, or perhaps something else entirely?

Thank you.

Op thats not the way I see it.

Pain and suffering are a result of separation and forgetfulness of your real self. Pain and suffering are the catalist which pushes you back toward the discover of your true self.

When you suffer enough pain you start looking for answers in the right places. Not outside of yourself.

I find the opposite of what you have stated to actually be true. The closer one comes to an understanding of the true self the less suffering there is. And understanding usually happens with older souls, not young ones. Peace.


Such could never be True, as what you postulate says that the "cake walk" people of the world are the most mature spirits here, something that is patently FALSE through simple observation.



Hello Saxon,

Can you explain what "cake walk" people of the world are? Do mean those that may be considered worldly, or those that sequester themselves from life lessons, or perhaps something else entirely?

Thank you.


Cake walk people are those you've seen around you that for the most part never endure anything very serious in their lives. There can be several reasons for that, but for the sake of this argument I'm talking about those who remain protected here due their very immature spirit status. i.e. any hard living totally crushes these people for the most part. It's a developmental spirit thing.

God, HE Who IS, Has Always Been, Will Always BE; YahWeh, Elohim, Father is not responsible for your feelings, your interpretations, or your expectations.

Let that sink in a while.


You mean let that sink DOWN, right, like a turd to the bottom of a punch bowl? Because, for the most part, the big LIE above is just that, a LIE, and you a worshiper of Lucifer, the hater of our Creator.



There is only one God. Revealed and Made Known to mankind through HIS interaction with certain men and women and through The Witness of HIS Son, Christ Jesus, Yeshua Hamashiach.


True, there is only ONE God, manifest as BOTH Mother Earth and Father Heaven, just as is so plainly evident in the Creation we see Every day. As for the mythical Jesus the Christ, Lucifer in "love" drag, his witness is false and a lie like everything else manifested by Satan, the children of Lucifer.


The "suffering" you identify, feel, know in your heart results from your alienation from God which is entirely due to your self-willed motivation for living.


Bullshit, but that's what one comes to expect from a groveling Luciferian who believes any suffering encountered by a person to be due their "evil" choices. Your view is the glibly hateful view embraced by the usual children who themselves have never done any serious suffering of their own. What, you gonna pull up your pants leg and show us all your "boo boo" on your skint knee and tell us how you know what it's like to loose a leg?



When you live outside of HIS Will you are contrary to HIS natural order and ordained flow of life. Naturally you will be miserable and see things that are at variance with what you decide should be as "suffering".



Yes Lester, I/we get it, anyone who is suffering here is outside the will of your sad little "god" Lucifer, and if they don't kiss his ass, then he's going to go torment them further. (oh, no, wait, he's going to sign up some demons for such to keep his hands clean, right? )

Here's another Truth for you Lester, anyone who perfectly matches their will to the will of another is so repugnant to our Creator as to make them ill. To relinquish everything that you are to another is to become superfluous yourself, much like you are Lester.



There is no "suffering", not even death, which those who Abide In-HIM feel or are put upon by.



And you're a liar Lester, plain and simple, and had you yourself ever done any suffering worth talking about you'd know what a load of crap what you just said really is. So, how long have you existed in the Charasmania realms Les?



If you would not "suffer" through life, Recognize that only by submission and total surrender to God The Father will you Come Into HIS Accord and find freedom/deliverance In-HIS-Reality.


Again, bullshit.


Ol' Lester ain't gonna lie to you. The world being populated almost entirely by selfish, self-willed humans all alienated from HIM and pursuing their own goals for themselves and trying to control others is a seriously fucked up place. Yet, God Can & Will Deliver those who give themselves Unto HIM from the shit and suffering.


Lester's not going to lie to us? Oh no, of course not, Les is just going to pass on the lies of his so called "god" Lucifer hiding under a myriad of bullshit names made to hide his True identity. Your "god" Lucifer has no more power Lester and lacks the horsepower to to shit any more thankfully.


When you live your life In HIS Accord, Know HIM and are able to do HIS Will, suffering is no longer part of your life. You see it in others, in all those who are of-the-world; but Know the cause and how all could be delivered from it.


Total unmitigated BULLSHIT.


It is almost like the old Vaudeville joke, the Born-Again understanding of suffering: Guy comes into the doctor's office, says, "Doc, it hurts when I do this!" Doc says, "Don't do dat!"


As I said, it's easy for someone like yourself who's had a cake walk life to mock and scorn far superior spirits to yourself who have overcome so much here. Really, you charasmatic types are some of the most pathetic people in existence on this Earth currently.


If you would be free of suffering, give up your life to God.
Acknowledge Christ Jesus,
Admit and repent of your sins,
Claim your share of HIS infinite Grace & Mercy,
Give HIM your life; all of it, the good and the bad,
Ask HIM to send HIS Holy Spirit to Guide your life.


How many times are you going to repeat this bullshit Lester. You sound like the propaganda aid to Hitler, "the bigger the LIE, the more likely they are to believe you".



If you are sincere and honest, HE Will!
Otherwise, just be ready to suffer for your art of self-willed living.


Bullshit. Take your lies to the usual unsuspecting as I for one am repulsed by this self serving hateful bullshit. How about you go to the nearest children's cancer center and tell them of your "loving" god, K?

Because "god" doesn't exist.

Because "god" doesn't exist.

These were pretty much my words in 1987 but by 1988 I was fortunate enough to connect with Him....and now know that He exists. So I have reported both sides of the argument in my lifetime, but now know that my beliefs up to the age of 33 were false.

Cake walk people are those you've seen around you that for the most part never endure anything very serious in their lives. There can be several reasons for that, but for the sake of this argument I'm talking about those who remain protected here due their very immature spirit status. i.e. any hard living totally crushes these people for the most part. It's a developmental spirit thing.
(Saxon (777))


Not sure exactly what you mean by cake walk. But many people that appear to be well off still suffer, and experience great pain. If you believe that you reap what you sow or in karma/dharma as one sorce for our possible sorrows then perhaps these people have a good karmic life in this reguard.

Cakewalk people come in all forms and sizes. Suffering occurs when you lose self. Look outside of yourself, form attachments to illusionary things (tangible but transitory).

We are all at different stages in out development. This does not mean that one person is better than another and we also learn about different aspects of life at different times. A bum sleeping in the gutter or a billionaire could be more advanced than me but just working through a different set of programming on the journey home. We are all going home as we cannot leave part of ourself behind. Enjoy the experience of something other than self as that is why we are here.

...

Cake walk people are those you've seen around you that for the most part never endure anything very serious in their lives. There can be several reasons for that, but for the sake of this argument I'm talking about those who remain protected here due their very immature spirit status. i.e. any hard living totally crushes these people for the most part. It's a developmental spirit thing.

Hi Saxon,

Thank you for that.

Are you saying there are not even little bits of good nuggets in the bible? Such as the parables perhaps, psalms?

God will not breath for us right?

"Ophiuchus - The Great Serpent Wrestler and Tamer"


What is Ophiuchus all about? It seemed to represent a gateway to God, but only when the man has his serpent firmly in his hands, wrestled their own inner beast. Isn't that what its about?

Thank you.

....
Your first step in overcoming the Beast is one of courage as the Truth here is a bit fearful to understand. And that first step is understanding that this is LUCIFER'S kingdom, and that his power permeates EVERYTHING here. Were our Creator to simply intervene here and place the Truth on your coffee table at the expense of the King of this place, in what then would be your "job" of "overcoming the Beast".

If such were True, our Creator would never exhort you to "overcome the Beast" as HE would have done EVERYTHING for you by placing the very overcoming under your nose easily on your coffee table.

....



Hi Saxon,

So it does seem that in a sense, all of us schmoes here, may have come here, equipped by a little something something by our Creator, even when living in such a kingdom you described.
but that God will not breath for you in a sense correct?

if not, what is the point of hell, for it would seem for many we already lives it to some level already, in a certain kingdom in a sense.

Thank you.

Hello Saxon,

Are you saying the deception was for us to believe we were all beautiful gods, or do you mean like a separation from knowing God, or staring to believe we are separate and individual, or just individuality itself was the deception.... id appreciate your help to resolve some of these ambiguities to such an ambiguous topic. ;)


"Orgies of the gods/goddesses"... can you explain more what you mean here?

Thank you.

Hello Saxon,

"Your own doing..." Is that like a self mastery, and that God again won't breath for you? That everyone posses innate abilities to overcome/tame their own serpents, both within and without?

So the torment that we go through... it seems to be 'numbing'. A tempering, or strengthening, as you stated, it seems that our 'tormentors' may actually become ones 'liberators' when we can be Ophiuchusly tame their affects right? Like an overcoming?

It does feel that knowing the self, what I am, what we all are, seems pertinent. Especially in contrast to how we are social/historically 'massaged' to believe about ourselves and each other.. so in that sense, wouldn't 'remembering' what we all are, apply?

Thank you.

The Bible is full of passages about the coming of the Christ specialy the book of Isaias is full of prophecies in reference to Him, how do you account for that?
quoting Uriel

Because normally when the fallen "win", they get the "honors" of ending the "game" however they like.


saxon, by exist.. exist outside of any physical body... did you mean other worlds too, or how other earths were created and by whos words ?
...as in sanskrit meaning is artha -- btw, a;lso as a hebrew word for earth -- and the word is
sk. -- artha -- m. meaning

Words and meanings exist outside of any physical body. You and I can NEVER "know" where or who said these things, but are left to


Lexicon Results Strong's H776 - 'erets
Transliteration
'erets
Pronunciation

eh'·rets (Key)

Part of Speech
feminine noun

Root Word (Etymology)

from an unused root probably meaning to be firm

TWOT Reference
167


1) land, earth

a) earth

1) whole earth (as opposed to a part)

2) earth (as opposed to heaven)

3) earth (inhabitants)

b) land

1) country, territory

2) district, region

3) tribal territory

4) piece of ground

5) land of Canaan, Israel

6) inhabitants of land

7) Sheol, land without return, (under) world

8) city (-state)

c) ground, surface of the earth

1) ground

2) soil

d) (in phrases)

1) people of the land

2) space or distance of country (in measurements of distance)

3) level or plain country

4) land of the living

5) end(s) of the earth

e) (almost wholly late in usage)

1) lands, countries

a) often in contrast to Canaan


Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 2504 AV — land 1543, earth 712, country 140, ground 98, world 4, way 3, common 1, field 1, nations 1, wilderness + 04057 1


[link to spokensanskrit.de]

sk - pada - n. word
btw.
sl. pa da - of course
sl. pada - fails



Concordance Results (KJV) Strong's H776 - 'erets Learn More About Our Word Search Tools

Strong's Number H776 matches the Hebrew ארץ ('erets), which occurs 2504 times in 2191 verses in the Hebrew concordance of the KJV
Page 1 / 88 (Gen 1:1 - Gen 4:16)


Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.


Lexicon Results Strong's G776 - asitia
Transliteration
asitia
Pronunciation

a-se-te'-a (Key)

Part of Speech
feminine noun

Root Word (Etymology)

from G777

TDNT Reference
n/a


Outline of Biblical Usage 1) abstinence from food (whether voluntary or enforced)


Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 1 AV — abstinence 1 Thayer's Lexicon (Help)

[link to www.blueletterbible.org]


Strong's G777 - asitos

Root Word (Etymology)

from G1 (as a negative particle) and G4621

TDNT Reference
n/a
Vines
View Entry


Outline of Biblical Usage 1) fasting, without having eaten


Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 1 AV — fasting 1

[link to www.blueletterbible.org]

sk.
sita adj. white
sitaa f. sugar
[link to spokensanskrit.de]
a - above

sita - sl. not hungry

"Orgies of the gods/goddesses"... can you explain more what you mean here?

Thank you.



I think he means that Babylon is here and sex is the only way to get into heaven anymore : )

Big Brother is making sure people are gettin' laid. Little Sister is like the Swastika on Charles Manson's Forehead. It's there for Big Brother to scare virgins

A Fuck Life Approach To False Reality LOL

Not to muck up this thread too much and with respect to the OP, but the myth of a localized universal protagonist is the romantic meandering of the mind. No devil. No Lucifer. No fallen anything. No localized “god”. No central command. No battle of good vs evil. Sorry.

Now as far as suffering goes, I‘m afraid this gets a bit slippery as well, for much, if not most of the time it is a matter of perspective and understanding. It is our perception of what is transpiring and our choice of responses that translates into “suffering” vs “not suffering”. And so it is, suffering is a resulting condition wherein we ascribe the term to our situation or to that of others, when indeed and in fact, they may not call it such nor identify with their situation as such.

There have been stories galore about the supposed “saintly” types who have endured the most horrible of conditions and/or situations / and/or afflictions with not a sign of “suffering” but rather a smile on their face and a song in their hearts.


Yes, there is a thing called pain, but pain does not cause suffering. Suffering causes suffering. A person of strong will, mind and understanding – who is balanced, centered and expanded in awareness – sees and experiences all that “happens” as just another even in their lives – and does not judge it – nor condemn it – nor disown it – nor wallow in it, good or “bad”. They may feel pain, but they do not disdain it nor wither under it nor focus on it.


The mythical “Jesus”, had he been the super being as depicted, would summarily not have suffered as he could not have suffered– for an enlightened being does not suffer – for all suffering derives from - not – being all that one is - and subsequently - translating events or conditions as being outside themselves – or separate from themselves – which is not the case with such a being – and thus the ensuing fear of victimhood that might take hold open the door for suffering to a lesser being, did not and does not exist.




Call suffering separation anxiety.


Yes, we are free will creatures and this is a free will planet and thus we are free to act with / or without regard for others – wreaking havoc in other’s lives perhaps and causing pain of sorts – but it is all ephemeral and able to be balanced in time.


It can be said that the only thing we can suffer from is our own imbalance and lack of being.



Shalom

You are Gods, so you are the answer.

if you take away the effect after the cause how would we learn?

Saxon, in following this thread, much of what you say appears to make intuitive sense. Since I was a child I saw through the deception of all organized religions (particularly the Roman Catholic Church). My journeying lead me to the teachings of the Hopi (particularly the Crow Clan of Oraibi)and they create a picture far grander than any I have encountered on my travels. They speak of the "sacred path of migration" which underpins all of our existence in this solar system. The teaching was previously at a site called:

www.thebeloveddisciple.org

but this site has been taken down and it would appear that the knowledge is now lost.

Essentially the sacred path of migration involves each of the planets in the solar system migrating inwards towards the Sun. They literally jump one orbit every few hundred thousand years with the final goal being to move into the Sun literally and merge with it's consciousness. The Earth in it's present orbit is referred to as the fourth world (the first was when we were in the orbit of Jupiter existing as a gas giant). We are soon to move into the orbit of Venus in 2012 and become just like Venus (900 degree surface temp, predominatnly CO2 atmosphere, no magnetosphere, etc). This will be the fifth world and the 'new jerusalem' and we will have fifth world bodies.

What is you view of this notion? Does it accord with your beliefs? I am interested to know.

Feel free to post said proof as none exists.

Historians: Pliny the Younger, Tacitus, Suetonius, and Flavius Josephus Antiquities 20: 9.1 "Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the Sanhedrin of Judges, and brought before then the brother of Jesus, the so-called Christ, whose name was James, and some others; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned."