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Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!

 
**ZetaMax**

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03/26/2012 06:20 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
WRONG - you're foolishly assuming the market is a level playing field, that there is no collusion, manipulation, or "agendas" beyond making a profit. What's truly absurd is entertaining the thought that "government" is corrupt, but the "market" is not. Not only is that completely ridiculous, but in fact it was the "market" that corrupted government - and not the other way around.

The "government" having converted all the retirement funds and replaced them with IOU's - will of course turn over it's new "portfolio" to Goldman Sachs and other big players to manage. They will in turn trade with Chase and other global players - and in this way keep the "market" sufficiently inflated. If the sheeple want to sell their non-retirement fund held shares because the conversion has frightened them - NO PROBLEM!! Goldman will be standing by to scoop them up.
 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


I assume nothing. I do, however, know that you're an undereducated idiot who believes everything that a supposed "prophet" spews.

The idiocy of converting private retirement accounts goes back to misinterpreted news articles from 2008 which spawned the supposed attempt to convert the private retirement accounts of 60% of American workers. Guess what, the views of those congressmen went absolutely no where.

Here's a couple of articles from four years ago...

[link to ffscambridge.com]
[link to online.wsj.com]

Now if you know anything about banking, economics, etc...you'd realize that it would be a logistics nightmare to try to confiscate millions of retirement accounts - there are literally hundreds maybe even thousands of companies who manage these accounts and some workers have multiple accounts spread across different financial management comanies (I myself at one time had four 401k's running each with a different company and I know that I'm not alone with having multiple accounts).

It's not just a simple matter of the government saying "ours!" and everything magically transfers over. Hell, it's a logistics nightmare just trying to get a rollover from one company to the next - and even a bigger nightmare setting up a retirement account outside of your employer (the package I got to do a rollover one time ran two dozen pages).

So you've had multiple fails with your dear leader Clif and now are going to another fail in the making.

What will you say when the next fail occurs? Care to place a wager or are you afraid of having to fork over more money when proven wrong?
 Quoting: bob_909


>> ...you'd realize that it would be a logistics nightmare

Sure - of course. What makes you think the government would care about accuracy? After the bailout circus of 2008, ANYTHING is possible.

The last thing a ruling class (notice I did'nt "government" - just so YOU don't split hairs) that can print it's own money; needs, is our retirement accounts. But then they didn't have to repeal Glass-Steagel and create LIAR loans and DERIVATIVES either, did they?

We're not talking about actions taken "for the good of the people". When that is not the motive, who cares about "logistics"?

But that would cause CHAOS - riots in the streets!

... YUP

Last Edited by **ZetaMax** on 03/26/2012 06:22 AM
Anonymous Coward
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03/26/2012 04:13 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
siren2 fucking damn! Irish temporal marker falling now.... siren2


 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


And by the way, where did this "Irish temporal marker' business come from?

I haven't seen anything from the Clif Notes about it and it's not showing up in a google search before today.

Your post is the only one on GLP where the term occurs.

Looks to me like he's just riffing off the Keiser report.
Anonymous Coward
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03/26/2012 04:46 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
So I saw the GLP camera taking pictures of the Sun perfectly today.

How doe Nancy explain that the Sun is where it is supposed to be in the sky? Aren't we in, like, the tenth year of Earth Halting?
**ZetaMax**

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03/26/2012 04:49 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
siren2 fucking damn! Irish temporal marker falling now.... siren2


 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


And by the way, where did this "Irish temporal marker' business come from?

I haven't seen anything from the Clif Notes about it and it's not showing up in a google search before today.

Your post is the only one on GLP where the term occurs.

Looks to me like he's just riffing off the Keiser report.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3559821


If you would have bought and read his reports, you'd have seen them!
Anonymous Coward
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03/26/2012 05:12 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
siren2 fucking damn! Irish temporal marker falling now.... siren2


 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


And by the way, where did this "Irish temporal marker' business come from?

I haven't seen anything from the Clif Notes about it and it's not showing up in a google search before today.

Your post is the only one on GLP where the term occurs.

Looks to me like he's just riffing off the Keiser report.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3559821


If you would have bought and read his reports, you'd have seen them!
 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


And what specifically did the reports say?

Funny how Clif and his supporters (like you) will publicize specific catastrophic predictions and then come back a few weeks later crowing about some relatively minor event that wasn't even mentioned before.

For example: what ever happened with that alleged Israeli false flag attack on a U.S. ship that was supposed to have happened on March 2 and started a U.S./Iranian war? You posted about that on this thread in case you've forgotten.
bob_909

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03/27/2012 08:21 PM
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... YUP
 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


Wrap your head around this little fact, the value of a retirement account is ZERO until it is cashed out. It's only numbers on a piece of paper and in a database until it is acted upon.

In order for the government to confiscate the accounts, they would have to be converted - just like when you do a rollover of cash out your 401k. Until that moment, it's nothing but numbers.

If the government were to confiscate the accounts, there would have to be a transaction and a conversion. If there was a mass confiscation, there would be the necessity of cashing account millions of accounts at once. Essentially, one big nasty SELL order which would drive the value of the stocks and mutual funds the retirement accounts are vested in to ZERO value.

What happens when thousands of shareholders sell all at once? The value of the stock is driven toward zero. Just like what happened in 1929 with the stock market crash.

It's obvious to me that you have probably zero invested in a retirement account.
“Fear always springs from ignorance” - Ralph Waldo Emerson
**ZetaMax**

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03/28/2012 09:14 AM
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... YUP
 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


Wrap your head around this little fact, the value of a retirement account is ZERO until it is cashed out. It's only numbers on a piece of paper and in a database until it is acted upon.

In order for the government to confiscate the accounts, they would have to be converted - just like when you do a rollover of cash out your 401k. Until that moment, it's nothing but numbers.

If the government were to confiscate the accounts, there would have to be a transaction and a conversion. If there was a mass confiscation, there would be the necessity of cashing account millions of accounts at once. Essentially, one big nasty SELL order which would drive the value of the stocks and mutual funds the retirement accounts are vested in to ZERO value.

What happens when thousands of shareholders sell all at once? The value of the stock is driven toward zero. Just like what happened in 1929 with the stock market crash.

It's obvious to me that you have probably zero invested in a retirement account.
 Quoting: bob_909


>> the value of a retirement account is ZERO until it is cashed out

What kind of an idiot do you take me for??

That is the most absurd, demonstrably FALSE statement you've probably ever typed here.

It's only "true" to the extent that it's not "valuable" to YOU in the sense of you not being able to SPEND it until your retirement date arrives, or you liquidate the account (with gargantuan tax penalties). But that doesn't mean it has no "value".

>> In order for the government to confiscate the accounts, they would have to be converted

Since when, and says WHO? YOU? Keep in mind that its the GOVERNMENT making up the rules as it goes, you have NO say in the matter.

All retirement accounts consist of some kind of marketable asset that someone else also finds valuable. Stocks, bonds, gold shares, real estate, even cash. All of it has marketable value. The government taking over your account changes the nature of NONE of these. IBM stock is still IBM stock. Municipal Bonds are still municipal bonds. It's just that now, instead of being managed by say Fidelity for YOU, it simply with the stroke of a pen becomes managed by Fidelity for the GOVERNMENT. Nothing else changes. They don't even have to remove your name from the account. The government can then order the assets of that account sold at any FUTURE date. You no longer have access, and will only be able to get a stipend someday when you prove to the government that you have "retired" - however it someday decides to "define" that condition. All Fidelity has to do is keep good records and note the value of the account on the date the government converted it to it's control. Fidelity should be doing that already. If the government chooses to liquidate the underlying assets, an IOU will be substituted. What kind of "value" that IOU will reflect, value at day of conversion, value at day of liquidation - will be up to the GOVERNMENT to decide. And of course what about FUTURE value? Will the IOU be adjusted for inflation? Will it be tagged to the value of the assets as "if" those assets were still part of the portfolio? (The value of IBM stock on July 2nd, 2019?) That's probably too much "work" to bother with, so it will likely be simply indexed to "inflation" from the conversion value - if adjusted at all (like Social Security). If you wish to continue "contributing" to your "personal" retirement, you are essentially voluntarily increasing the Social Security taxes you're paying. Because in the end, your accounts are simply added to your Social Security totals. That's the bottom line. Otherwise, you can save money for retirement without any tax incentives, like saving money for a new car or vacation - but I'm sure there will be RULES regarding that as well!

Obviously we don't know the details of how much value YOU will realize someday from this converted account - but then that really isn't very important to the GOVERNMENT, now is it???

Last Edited by **ZetaMax** on 03/28/2012 11:15 AM
Anonymous Coward
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03/28/2012 12:25 PM
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... YUP
 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


Wrap your head around this little fact, the value of a retirement account is ZERO until it is cashed out. It's only numbers on a piece of paper and in a database until it is acted upon.

In order for the government to confiscate the accounts, they would have to be converted - just like when you do a rollover of cash out your 401k. Until that moment, it's nothing but numbers.

If the government were to confiscate the accounts, there would have to be a transaction and a conversion. If there was a mass confiscation, there would be the necessity of cashing account millions of accounts at once. Essentially, one big nasty SELL order which would drive the value of the stocks and mutual funds the retirement accounts are vested in to ZERO value.

What happens when thousands of shareholders sell all at once? The value of the stock is driven toward zero. Just like what happened in 1929 with the stock market crash.

It's obvious to me that you have probably zero invested in a retirement account.
 Quoting: bob_909


>> the value of a retirement account is ZERO until it is cashed out

What kind of an idiot do you take me for??

That is the most absurd, demonstrably FALSE statement you've probably ever typed here.

It's only "true" to the extent that it's not "valuable" to YOU in the sense of you not being able to SPEND it until your retirement date arrives, or you liquidate the account (with gargantuan tax penalties). But that doesn't mean it has no "value".

>> In order for the government to confiscate the accounts, they would have to be converted

Since when, and says WHO? YOU? Keep in mind that its the GOVERNMENT making up the rules as it goes, you have NO say in the matter.

All retirement accounts consist of some kind of marketable asset that someone else also finds valuable. Stocks, bonds, gold shares, real estate, even cash. All of it has marketable value. The government taking over your account changes the nature of NONE of these. IBM stock is still IBM stock. Municipal Bonds are still municipal bonds. It's just that now, instead of being managed by say Fidelity for YOU, it simply with the stroke of a pen becomes managed by Fidelity for the GOVERNMENT. Nothing else changes. They don't even have to remove your name from the account. The government can then order the assets of that account sold at any FUTURE date. You no longer have access, and will only be able to get a stipend someday when you prove to the government that you have "retired" - however it someday decides to "define" that condition. All Fidelity has to do is keep good records and note the value of the account on the date the government converted it to it's control. Fidelity should be doing that already. If the government chooses to liquidate the underlying assets, an IOU will be substituted. What kind of "value" that IOU will reflect, value at day of conversion, value at day of liquidation - will be up to the GOVERNMENT to decide. And of course what about FUTURE value? Will the IOU be adjusted for inflation? Will it be tagged to the value of the assets as "if" those assets were still part of the portfolio? (The value of IBM stock on July 2nd, 2019?) That's probably too much "work" to bother with, so it will likely be simply indexed to "inflation" from the conversion value - if adjusted at all (like Social Security). If you wish to continue "contributing" to your "personal" retirement, you are essentially voluntarily increasing the Social Security taxes you're paying. Because in the end, your accounts are simply added to your Social Security totals. That's the bottom line. Otherwise, you can save money for retirement without any tax incentives, like saving money for a new car or vacation - but I'm sure there will be RULES regarding that as well!

Obviously we don't know the details of how much value YOU will realize someday from this converted account - but then that really isn't very important to the GOVERNMENT, now is it???
 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


oh man, still around?
what all failed in the last weeks ?
Anonymous Coward
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03/28/2012 02:08 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Still no answer from Max on the "Irish Temporal Marker" prediction.

What was it that the Clif Notes said? He gives away his reports, right? So there should be no problem with you telling us here on a thread only a few people even read.
walt

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03/28/2012 02:14 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
and now only 4 days to go for Max and Cliff's fail
my rugby website at [link to www.lionsworld.co.za]
The Lone Ranger (OP)

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03/28/2012 05:21 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


lol4me LOL!! Geez for once you actually have made the most sense ever on our thread, Melfy.....by saying absolutely NOTHING!!

Well done numbnuts!!

Mexcited
Life Is But A Dream!!
Therefore, "'Tis better to have dreamed and lost than never to have dreamed at all."
------------------------------------
Disclaimer:

DON'T​ BELIEVE A DAMN WORD YOU READ ON THIS THREAD!....USE DISCERNMENT!!
Anonymous Coward
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03/28/2012 10:43 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Ban melfy!!

Ban bridget!!!

Oh wait, they are the same lying sack of shit trolls... Ban em both!
Anonymous Coward
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03/29/2012 04:14 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
What kind of an idiot do you take me for??


 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


The worst kind.
Anonymous Coward
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03/29/2012 06:19 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
What kind of an idiot do you take me for??


 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


The worst kind.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13440860

ane even that is some sort of unjustified praise.
**ZetaMax**

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03/30/2012 09:25 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Still no answer from Max on the "Irish Temporal Marker" prediction.

What was it that the Clif Notes said? He gives away his reports, right? So there should be no problem with you telling us here on a thread only a few people even read.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3559821


Working on it - been pretty busy the last few days.
Anonymous Coward
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03/30/2012 01:42 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
One more day before Melfy becomes the ultimate April Fool. We all knew that months ago, but we were charitable enough to give him until April 1st. Unless nukes start dropping, the worldwide economy crashes in the next few hours, Melfy, like Nancy before him will be completely discredited. But don't worry, Max. There are lots of scam artists accepting ignorant followers. Candace is fast replacing Nancy as queen of woo woos. Perhaps she is hiring.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
What's ZetaTalk?
aussie 763624
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03/30/2012 07:09 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
What's ZetaTalk?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13457797


zetababble is nancy LIEders site, a decade and a halfs worth of her chats with the alien voices in her head (her description, not mine LOL) filled with many many interesting `facts' such that Indonesia has sunk 80 feet back in 2010, the earth was bombarded with meteorites, the poles shifted and most of the atmosphere was torn away in 2003, all the astronauts on the ISS died back in 2004, the Earth has been stopped in its orbit since 2004 as well and the Venus transit didnt happen back then as well
Oh, and there is a large ice planet/brown dwarf 4 times larger than the earth complete with several moons floating around between us and the sun, but we cant see it because its hidden by dust, except for when its visible via cheap phone cameras


All of these things happened, except the ones that didn't, and its all been covered up `for our safety and sanity' by either THTB or the zetas (the voices in her head that talk to her)

Thats the `short and sweet of zetababble

Oh and 99% of us are going to `die horribly, our legs broken and mangled' when the pole shift that didnt happen in May 2003 happens this `2012 is too far out' (um last??) year
aussie 763624
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03/30/2012 07:14 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Working on it - been pretty busy the last few days.
 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


Yes only 1 day until he has to trot out yet another excuse....

melfy HAS been busy these last few days, trying to find an excuse that he hasn't either
a- used before
or
b- sounds so dumb that even HE can't use it because he thinks it's too stupid

And as he has found, thats pretty much wiped out every excuse for him (the first is a vast number but the second option is (practically) zero)
Anonymous Coward
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03/30/2012 07:43 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Still no answer from Max on the "Irish Temporal Marker" prediction.

What was it that the Clif Notes said? He gives away his reports, right? So there should be no problem with you telling us here on a thread only a few people even read.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3559821


Working on it - been pretty busy the last few days.
 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


Originally you claimed that if I had bought the reports (as you presumably had) I would know what Clif meant by the "Irish Temporal Marker."

Now I get the definite impression that you are looking for it because you don't know either.

My guess is that there is no mention of the "Irish Temporal Marker" in his reports or it is based on a generous interpretation of an obscure reference.
Anonymous Coward
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03/31/2012 07:01 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
BAN MELFY!!!BAN MELFY!!!BAN MELFY!!!BAN MELFY!!!BAN MELFY!!!
Anonymous Coward
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04/01/2012 01:23 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Happy April Fool, Melfy. Your time is up. Still no Clif doom, Max still wrong. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. It's been a pleasure watching you make a fool of yourself, but the novelty wore off a long time ago.
walt

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04/01/2012 04:53 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Happy April Fool, Melfy. Your time is up. Still no Clif doom, Max still wrong. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. It's been a pleasure watching you make a fool of yourself, but the novelty wore off a long time ago.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10422385


+1
my rugby website at [link to www.lionsworld.co.za]
**ZetaMax**

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04/01/2012 09:02 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Happy April Fool, Melfy. Your time is up. Still no Clif doom, Max still wrong. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. It's been a pleasure watching you make a fool of yourself, but the novelty wore off a long time ago.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10422385


+1
 Quoting: walt


I admit, that Clif doom has yet to "fully" unfold.

Last Edited by **ZetaMax** on 04/01/2012 09:03 AM
bob_909

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04/01/2012 10:26 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Happy April Fool, Melfy. Your time is up. Still no Clif doom, Max still wrong. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. It's been a pleasure watching you make a fool of yourself, but the novelty wore off a long time ago.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10422385


+1
 Quoting: walt


I admit, that Clif doom has yet to "fully" unfold.
 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


It's always "tomorrow" and "soon" with you...nothing like having a sliding date to keep things from failing...

Reminds me of a certain old lady who lives in Wisconsin.
“Fear always springs from ignorance” - Ralph Waldo Emerson
**ZetaMax**

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04/01/2012 11:18 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Happy April Fool, Melfy. Your time is up. Still no Clif doom, Max still wrong. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. It's been a pleasure watching you make a fool of yourself, but the novelty wore off a long time ago.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10422385


+1
 Quoting: walt


I admit, that Clif doom has yet to "fully" unfold.
 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


It's always "tomorrow" and "soon" with you...nothing like having a sliding date to keep things from failing...

Reminds me of a certain old lady who lives in Wisconsin.
 Quoting: bob_909


Clif said yesterday that we are "drowning" in immediacy language. The "ugly fish beings" are COMING BACK!!!
Anonymous Coward
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04/01/2012 05:47 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
It's April Fool's Day...wow, Max has a day named after him!
The Lone Ranger (OP)

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04/01/2012 05:49 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Still no answer from Max on the "Irish Temporal Marker" prediction.

What was it that the Clif Notes said? He gives away his reports, right? So there should be no problem with you telling us here on a thread only a few people even read.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3559821


Working on it - been pretty busy the last few days.
 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


Time to give it up Melfy. Time has proven Ms LIEDer to be full of shit in her pathetic zetatalk prediction crapola. Same deal with that scammer, Clif "I'm on a" High, that you keep on about.

Just face the facts Melfy. Time has also proven that you yourself are just as full of shit as the two other aforementioned persons in this posting.
Life Is But A Dream!!
Therefore, "'Tis better to have dreamed and lost than never to have dreamed at all."
------------------------------------
Disclaimer:

DON'T​ BELIEVE A DAMN WORD YOU READ ON THIS THREAD!....USE DISCERNMENT!!
The Lone Ranger (OP)

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04/01/2012 05:50 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
It's April Fool's Day...wow, Max has a day named after him!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12726113


100percent
Life Is But A Dream!!
Therefore, "'Tis better to have dreamed and lost than never to have dreamed at all."
------------------------------------
Disclaimer:

DON'T​ BELIEVE A DAMN WORD YOU READ ON THIS THREAD!....USE DISCERNMENT!!
walt

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South Africa
04/02/2012 12:55 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
It's April Fool's Day...wow, Max has a day named after him!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12726113


LOL!
my rugby website at [link to www.lionsworld.co.za]

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