Godlike Productions - Conspiracy Forum
Users Online Now: 2,103 (Who's On?)Visitors Today: 749,272
Pageviews Today: 1,102,733Threads Today: 283Posts Today: 6,040
09:35 AM


Rate this Thread

Absolute BS Crap Reasonable Nice Amazing
 

Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!

 
Menow
User ID: 32480245
United States
01/17/2013 09:20 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
"... the ning has reduced the number of members down from 5,000 to 500 or so, deliberately."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32410462


Pure spin and pure bullshit.
Circuit Breaker

User ID: 30047168
United States
01/18/2013 09:19 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I see Ann S. hasn't stepped up to the challenge. Big surprise there. Guess that makes "debunkers" right again by default.

zwrong2
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
Truther
User ID: 32508976
Germany
01/18/2013 10:18 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
It`s always the same with those ningtards. They talk a lot and abuse scientific data they dont understand. But if you ask them to verify their results or compare them seriously with public available data they will run.

They know that they represent pure nonsense. But in their cult this nonsense got a kind of religion which makes them blind and brainwashed.
VeritasN1

User ID: 32523783
Canada
01/18/2013 02:03 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
@COS:
They might be human beings but some who completely lost their way. They are to deep in absorbing the system of their cult. Of course they gave out false infos to the poor people in Indonesia back in 2010. But they never learn from their mistakes and now they start congratulating themselves again for finding some pics of rain time flooding. This is very poor and despicable.

They are so horny for these catastrophies and tragedies around the world to prove themselves their superstition. I feel no understanding for that, especially because they use this disinformation to spread new fear and abuse among the last believers. So I can see no place for chilling.

To be honest the whole message of Nancy Liar which describes an apocalypse as a message of hope sounds highly fascistic and fundamentalist to me. Such a cataclysm – which of course is a bad hoax – would wipe out around 90 percent of earth`s population. We would have a body count here which would be far more distastrous as the last two world wars together. So when somebody describes that as a message of hope this clearly indicates that he is more than insane. Without any doubt!

And then we have here this Alberto Cardin aka Flareberto, the greatest astronomer of the world, who uses a cell phone with the storage disk of an obsolete floppy in front of his lense as his favourite “telescope” of choice. Nobody out there felt compassion enough for him to give him a real telescope. And so he discovers endless Nibirus and moon constellations (in their cult language “bullies” and “moon swirls”) which simply are lenseflares. According to crazy Nancy Nibiru arrived here with nine moons. Thanks to Alberto they have at least 900 moons and around 50 Nibirus now which don`t follow any normal orbit – like all other well known celestial bodies – but rather Flareberto`s cell phone. In Flareberto`s latest “great” clip they seem to move even faster than with lightspeed. Congratulations to such outstanding results, Bumberto! Of course thousands of astronomers – both professionals and amateurs – can see nothing there with their real professional equipment. Hot air stays hot air.

In Nancy`s cult world even moons and planets seem to reproduce each other and this without any limit. As their waiting for real objects will be endless we can soon await hundreds of more moons and Nibirus. Gravity never was a topic for them, as they form a cult without any real connection to reality. Apparently in a magnetic world moons attract hundreds of other moons and Nibirus find more and more Nibiru-friends out there: and that all in front of our sun. Perhaps we should call this intergalactic friendship!


Comedy gold at its best! Thanks to Flareberto and friends! Pure satire and foiling themselves! We seem to live in the sun system with the most undiscovered planets and moons: and of course all of them are in front of our sun, so that nobody can miss them! Nancy`s dog and pony show is in town again! It could be funny, if it wasn`t so sad. The stupidity of human beings is endless.

If they find a second Flareberto – perhaps with some photoshop at home – we will soon see Gerard Zwaan riding on one of this moons and waving to the last 200 followers of the cult. And perhaps he meets Ann S. there and this will get an eternal friendship. Two passengers who ride on moons.scaredaloneviolin

Last Edited by VeritasN1 on 01/18/2013 02:26 PM
You are a part of the truth as long as you mention it!
bob_909

User ID: 32314742
United States
01/18/2013 06:58 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
"... the ning has reduced the number of members down from 5,000 to 500 or so, deliberately."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32410462


Pure spin and pure bullshit.
 Quoting: Menow 32480245


You're right - pure spin and bullshit.


Yep, they deliberately reduced the number of members - hah!

It's now down to 459.
“Fear always springs from ignorance” - Ralph Waldo Emerson
Circuit Breaker

User ID: 30047168
United States
01/19/2013 07:26 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Maybe it'll be down to less than 100 by the end of the year.
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
Truther
User ID: 32577124
Germany
01/19/2013 10:37 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Nancy Lieder has lost more than 90 percent of her members during the last year. So the trend continues. People do not buy her shit so easily anymore. And last year she made so many apparent mistakes and hoaxes that most people recognized that there are no Zetas around. It is only Nancy who is trying her usual pranks with her last few members.

It could be that till the end of the year Zwaan deliberately closes the Ning as he will awake too. And with only around 50 active members left there is not enough money coming in anymore.

Zwaan should finally close the Ning and stop the fraud.
MaTV
User ID: 32410462
Germany
01/19/2013 11:07 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
If Nancy has a million visitors, I wonder why her Newsletter has so few hits?

[link to poleshift.ning.com]

After more than 48hours: 2500 hits....
Counting refreshing pages etc: say 2000 hits.

I guess, the other 998.000 people either don't read it at all or they read it directly at ZT.com site (where nobody can really see the stats), or (seems HIGHLY UNREALISTIC (sarcasm))
she doesn't has these followers at all.

s226
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 32410462
Germany
01/19/2013 11:15 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
If Nancy has a million visitors, I wonder why her Newsletter has so few hits?

[link to poleshift.ning.com]

After more than 48hours: 2500 hits....
Counting refreshing pages etc: say 2000 hits.

I guess, the other 998.000 people either don't read it at all or they read it directly at ZT.com site (where nobody can really see the stats), or (seems HIGHLY UNREALISTIC (sarcasm))
she doesn't has these followers at all.

s226
 Quoting: MaTV 32410462


btw, looks like 0,2% of these "Million viewers" actually really follow the progress...

Lets you wonder what the other 99,8% are doing 1rof11rof1

Gawd Nancy. Even claiming half a million would be unrealistic as fuck...

The Stupid - It burns (hard with 73 years).popcorn
Diju
User ID: 32592208
01/19/2013 02:42 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Ha. Ha. Nancy lying again. We left Jakarta in 2010 to go to a safe location. Now Im with some friends in Malaysa, Johor Bahru….what a shame Nancy Lieder is for the human kind.

In March we have enuff money to go back to Jakarta. This old skunk Lieder and her wrong advices.

Dont listn to liars.

Diju
bob_909

User ID: 32314742
United States
01/19/2013 03:01 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
If Nancy has a million visitors, I wonder why her Newsletter has so few hits?

[link to poleshift.ning.com]

After more than 48hours: 2500 hits....
Counting refreshing pages etc: say 2000 hits.

I guess, the other 998.000 people either don't read it at all or they read it directly at ZT.com site (where nobody can really see the stats), or (seems HIGHLY UNREALISTIC (sarcasm))
she doesn't has these followers at all.

s226
 Quoting: MaTV 32410462


Alexa numbers for zetatalk:

Daily pageviews (7 day) - 0.000037% (8880/day)
Daily pageviews (1 month) - 0.000059% (12000/day)
Reach (1 month) - 0.0020% - 480,000 internet users

Alexa numbers for poleshit:

Daily pageviews (7 day) - 0.000050% (14160/day)
Daily pageviews (1 month) - 0.000058% (13920/day)
Reach (1 month) - 0.0028% - 672,000 internet users

Alexa numbers for godlike:

Daily pageviews (7 day) - 0.00190% (456000/day)
Daily pageviews (1 month) - 0.00215% (516000/day)
Reach (1 month) - 0.0408% - 9,792,000 internet users

According to the latest statistics, there are roughly 2.4 billion internet users in the world (pageview and reach numbers above use this number).



As usual, Nancy is inflating numbers again just like she did years ago when she was counting server hits instead of unique users to inflate her claims of zetatalk's popularity (I came up with this conclusion when it was possible to look at her site's actual statistics).
“Fear always springs from ignorance” - Ralph Waldo Emerson
More about TunnelVision
User ID: 32410462
Germany
01/19/2013 04:56 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Ha. Ha. Nancy lying again. We left Jakarta in 2010 to go to a safe location. Now Im with some friends in Malaysa, Johor Bahru….what a shame Nancy Lieder is for the human kind.

In March we have enuff money to go back to Jakarta. This old skunk Lieder and her wrong advices.

Dont listn to liars.

Diju
 Quoting: Diju 32592208


Hi Diju!
I remember your presence from the Ning.

Sorry to hear you had trouble.
Hope all goes well with your plans so you can live a "normal" life again.

Yes Nancy's advises are very troublesome indeed..

My best wishes,
hf
More about TunnelVision
User ID: 32606306
Germany
01/19/2013 07:06 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Ha. Ha. Nancy lying again. We left Jakarta in 2010 to go to a safe location. Now Im with some friends in Malaysa, Johor Bahru….what a shame Nancy Lieder is for the human kind.

In March we have enuff money to go back to Jakarta. This old skunk Lieder and her wrong advices.

Dont listn to liars.

Diju
 Quoting: Diju 32592208


Hi Diju!
I remember your presence from the Ning.

Sorry to hear you had trouble.
Hope all goes well with your plans so you can live a "normal" life again.

Yes Nancy's advises are very troublesome indeed..

My best wishes,
hf
 Quoting: More about TunnelVision 32410462


Looks like Nancy is now collecting Money for the "close circle".
Andrew (I like him as a person) who is in a rather troublesome situation can now recieve donations on the PS-Ning.
[link to poleshift.ning.com]

Isn't it ironic?
Nancy contributed to his situation for a great part and now she's playing social welfare to better his situation.

How about Diju? How about the others that moved to "safe locations" and are still waiting for that darn Planet to show up?

Screw her false motives and her bloody cash.
skull_fing
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1513279
United States
01/20/2013 12:04 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Well, I suppose it had to happen eventually. 74444 here, and it looks like I've been permanently banned from GLP. I suppose I crushed IDW one too many times. Ah, well. Someone else will need to remind him of his upcoming failures on both the summer and winter solstices, and the fact we're still here in January, 2014.

So I'm here at a coffee shop, and wanted to say so long to people, at least until I get unbanned someday. I want to say thanks to all the various debunkers for a lot of fun over the years.

To Nancy and the other zeta-lurkers reading this: your inabity to rationally defend your position either here or elsewhere demonstrates that your *idea* is weak, not anything wrong with your critics. This year, PX will now be a *decade* overdue. How long will you wait until you can admit that Nancy is simply and finally wrong? Ever?

I'll check to see if I am still banned from time to time, so until such time as I'm not, be well.
Menow
User ID: 32641829
United States
01/20/2013 08:51 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Well, I suppose it had to happen eventually. 74444 here, and it looks like I've been permanently banned from GLP. I suppose I crushed IDW one too many times. Ah, well. Someone else will need to remind him of his upcoming failures on both the summer and winter solstices, and the fact we're still here in January, 2014.

So I'm here at a coffee shop, and wanted to say so long to people, at least until I get unbanned someday. I want to say thanks to all the various debunkers for a lot of fun over the years.

To Nancy and the other zeta-lurkers reading this: your inabity to rationally defend your position either here or elsewhere demonstrates that your *idea* is weak, not anything wrong with your critics. This year, PX will now be a *decade* overdue. How long will you wait until you can admit that Nancy is simply and finally wrong? Ever?

I'll check to see if I am still banned from time to time, so until such time as I'm not, be well.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1513279


The ban thing seems to be fairly random and without much real basis. Were you just banned from a specific thread? Seems that if you click on that thread again a ban kicks in, but you can reboot and still access the forum in general. I don't know for sure. Try that. We'll miss you.
Circuit Breaker

User ID: 30047168
United States
01/20/2013 03:32 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Well, Obama was sworn in as President and surprise, surprise! No announcement about "Planet X" afterwards. The closest thing the ningtards will EVER get to an announcement of "Planet X" from the Obama administration is excuses from the "Zetas" as to why it never happens.
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
More about TunnelVision
User ID: 20081569
Germany
01/20/2013 04:55 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Well, Obama was sworn in as President and surprise, surprise! No announcement about "Planet X" afterwards. The closest thing the ningtards will EVER get to an announcement of "Planet X" from the Obama administration is excuses from the "Zetas" as to why it never happens.
 Quoting: Circuit Breaker


Looks like they're currently in the low... so it shouldn't be long until Nancy comes up with the next exiting news to renew the focus.... to be followed again by another low.. and the cycle starts again violin

[link to www.imagebanana.com]
VeritasN1

User ID: 32739136
Canada
01/21/2013 01:56 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Well, I also have to leave you for some time. Nobody is perfect and I want to see the world as it is. So I will spend some months in Asia like Hydra (and South America).
When Im your enemy im one of the worst, but as a friend one of the best. And I like the world as it is.

Of course there are no Nobeeryous around and no other things. Unfortunately I can not visit Jakarta this time, because I have some other resorts in my mind. But I like the asian women…though not all.

I still remember this Andrew when I was a member of the Ning. Of course I was not there to be his friend. He was a fanatic. I gave the whole page a new look back in 2010. Nancy and the dogs.

Andrew was so tough, such a strong believer. I was posting a soho-pic at that time and he immediately attacked me. Nancy said, the sun is not responsible for the changes? Very aggressive, -like a real cult victim.

Now you can see what happened with Andrew. He bought a house in a so called “safe location” somewhere in nowhereland, his wife got a baby, he lost his job and nowhere to go anymore.

And his so called “safe location” got his own personal disaster. Well, he was stupid to follow Nancy. And the real aliens live in Hinterholz 8, an old Austrian parody which describes Zetatalk the best.


Welcome on earth you Nancy-Zetas! Andrew got a victim like Niels Neumann and others….! And no aliens are around to cure their wounds!

Last Edited by VeritasN1 on 01/21/2013 02:05 PM
You are a part of the truth as long as you mention it!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31410834
Germany
01/21/2013 05:05 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Well, I also have to leave you for some time. Nobody is perfect and I want to see the world as it is. So I will spend some months in Asia like Hydra (and South America).
When Im your enemy im one of the worst, but as a friend one of the best. And I like the world as it is.

Of course there are no Nobeeryous around and no other things. Unfortunately I can not visit Jakarta this time, because I have some other resorts in my mind. But I like the asian women…though not all.

I still remember this Andrew when I was a member of the Ning. Of course I was not there to be his friend. He was a fanatic. I gave the whole page a new look back in 2010. Nancy and the dogs.

Andrew was so tough, such a strong believer. I was posting a soho-pic at that time and he immediately attacked me. Nancy said, the sun is not responsible for the changes? Very aggressive, -like a real cult victim.

Now you can see what happened with Andrew. He bought a house in a so called “safe location” somewhere in nowhereland, his wife got a baby, he lost his job and nowhere to go anymore.

And his so called “safe location” got his own personal disaster. Well, he was stupid to follow Nancy. And the real aliens live in Hinterholz 8, an old Austrian parody which describes Zetatalk the best.


Welcome on earth you Nancy-Zetas! Andrew got a victim like Niels Neumann and others….! And no aliens are around to cure their wounds!
 Quoting: VeritasN1


Grow up, Kid!
More about TunnelVision
User ID: 32715522
Germany
01/21/2013 06:06 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Well, I also have to leave you for some time. Nobody is perfect and I want to see the world as it is. So I will spend some months in Asia like Hydra (and South America).
When Im your enemy im one of the worst, but as a friend one of the best. And I like the world as it is.
 Quoting: VeritasN1


Who said you need to be perfect? tounge Enjoy that timeout and the sun! Asia and Southamerica? Sounds like traveling the world. hf

See ya!

RE: Nancy Hinterholz and the Zetas,


I've had enough whistle...
Truther
User ID: 32802336
Germany
01/22/2013 01:29 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!



Grow up, Kid!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward


I only see one kid in this thread and this is you stupid cult-boy. Get a life you moron and try to leave the cult to find back into reality again.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 32596229
Germany
01/22/2013 08:01 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Well, I suppose it had to happen eventually. 74444 here, and it looks like I've been permanently banned from GLP. I suppose I crushed IDW one too many times. Ah, well. Someone else will need to remind him of his upcoming failures on both the summer and winter solstices, and the fact we're still here in January, 2014.

So I'm here at a coffee shop, and wanted to say so long to people, at least until I get unbanned someday. I want to say thanks to all the various debunkers for a lot of fun over the years.

To Nancy and the other zeta-lurkers reading this: your inabity to rationally defend your position either here or elsewhere demonstrates that your *idea* is weak, not anything wrong with your critics. This year, PX will now be a *decade* overdue. How long will you wait until you can admit that Nancy is simply and finally wrong? Ever?

I'll check to see if I am still banned from time to time, so until such time as I'm not, be well.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1513279


I've also been banned and denied unbanning.
Apparently certain anti-vaccine loons are protected and opposing them is not allowed.

Be careful who you debunk as debunking seems to be becoming a frowned upon activity.


Reality420
Menow
User ID: 32845292
United States
01/22/2013 09:57 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Well, I suppose it had to happen eventually. 74444 here, and it looks like I've been permanently banned from GLP. I suppose I crushed IDW one too many times. Ah, well. Someone else will need to remind him of his upcoming failures on both the summer and winter solstices, and the fact we're still here in January, 2014.

So I'm here at a coffee shop, and wanted to say so long to people, at least until I get unbanned someday. I want to say thanks to all the various debunkers for a lot of fun over the years.

To Nancy and the other zeta-lurkers reading this: your inabity to rationally defend your position either here or elsewhere demonstrates that your *idea* is weak, not anything wrong with your critics. This year, PX will now be a *decade* overdue. How long will you wait until you can admit that Nancy is simply and finally wrong? Ever?

I'll check to see if I am still banned from time to time, so until such time as I'm not, be well.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1513279


I've also been banned and denied unbanning.
Apparently certain anti-vaccine loons are protected and opposing them is not allowed.

Be careful who you debunk as debunking seems to be becoming a frowned upon activity.


Reality420
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32596229


Yep. They call you a "shill", but if you call them a paranoid idiot they complain to somebody and get you banned.
Circuit Breaker

User ID: 30047168
United States
01/23/2013 08:50 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Well, two days since Obama was inaugurated and still no announcement about "Planet X."
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
Truther
User ID: 32866263
Germany
01/23/2013 12:59 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
They will probably wait till the end of the year. Of course there will never be such an announcement. Then Nancy will invent something new to keep them entertained, so that they forget the announcement of Obama.

Cults always follow the same pattern. And the last few followers of Nancy are so horny for doom that they will swallow everything she will tell them (remember the poor Zeta-Maxwell). Of course the result will always stay the same. They wait for something that doesn`t exist.

So Nancy will have to keep them entertained and will always try to make complete fools out of them. All cults work like this.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 32877245
Germany
01/23/2013 01:31 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Now you can see what happened with Andrew.
 Quoting: VeritasN1


Wankmeister Andy is just a useful idiot for stinkin' Nancy. He doesn't seem to be a bad person, just a gullible idiot.

Thread: "Let me express my extreme point of view..."

I'm pretty sure he quote: "i DO IT :jerkit: to myself in bed, letting it go free where and how it does" to images of Nancy
Truther
User ID: 32866263
Germany
01/23/2013 03:42 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Wow! This Andrew Veresay is a real perverted one. A madman!



He was probably masturbating in front of a four year old child.

Thread: "Let me express my extreme point of view..."

No wonder that he ended up in a weird cult.

And he only washes every second week. What a stinking tard...

Read this thread and you can smell how much he stinks.
MoreAboutTunnelVision​
User ID: 32873469
Germany
01/23/2013 10:13 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Nancy matches all criteria, except she claims she gets her info from aliens. spock

A great (rather long) article for the pX-believers:
[link to www.dronehoax.com]
What is Pseudoscience?

Pseudosciences are practises that masquerade themselves as science but have little or no scientific rigour or cohesion to them. They claim to be factual and scientific, yet do not adhere to scientific methodology and principles; notably the scientific principle of falsifiability.

It can be difficult for the non-scientist to discern whether something being claimed as scientific actually is or not. Fortunately pseudoscience has many recognisable features that are distinct from genuine science. These features are outlined below. Whilst not every feature will be common to every form of pseudoscience, any claimed scientific practise that displays at least some of these features is increasingly likely to be pseudoscientific.

Features of pseudoscience:

It's dogmatic.

A dogmatic belief or position is one that is deemed, by its proponents, to be accepted authority; and as such, not to be doubted or disputed. Pseudosciences tend to have evolved very little, or not at all, since the dogma was first established. Any research or experimentation that is carried out in the field is generally done more to justify the belief than to improve knowledge.

In science, observations are made, a hypothesis is formed, data are gathered and testing is done, and if the results of testing supports the hypothesis, a theory (provisional conclusion) is formulated. If any evidence comes to light that invalidates the conclusion, the conclusion will be rejected and a replacement theory sought. In pseudoscience, they begin with a solid conclusion (such as 'homeopathy works'), form theories as to why it works, collect data that support the conclusion and reject or explain away data that doesn't; which inevitably results in the conclusion being confirmed. With this system, no evidence is capable of contradicting the conclusion.

Challenging the accepted dogma is often considered a hostile act; such challenges will be fought off with attacks on the critic's character or motives rather than embraced as a way of testing claims as in real science. As a consequence, the same arguments and counter-arguments are seen time and again: scientists give reasons why the practise is a pseudoscience; the pseudoscientists respond with excuses and attacks on scientists and/or science itself.

The idea is aimed directly at the public.

Scientific breakthroughs will normally have been published in science journals, scrutinised by other scientists, and only announced to the public once scientists have agreed that the scientific breakthrough is indeed genuine. The progress of the acceptance of the idea will be documented and anyone can reference this information in the relevant journals.

Pseudoscientific ideas are sometimes driven by cultural or ideological reasons, but very often they're driven by commercial goals. A company that is trying to sell its products or ideas without having gone through this scientific scrutiny is giving out a telltale sign that their products will not stand up to scientific scrutiny. A new 'miracle breakthrough' healing device, for example, that is being sold directly to the public, but which has no science references to support it, probably doesn't work.

Ideas that are non-testable.

A crucial problem with many pseudoscientific ideas is that they cannot be tested in any meaningful way. This can come about because what is being claimed is so nebulous and vague it is difficult to conceive of how one would test it. Also, such vagueness facilitates a legion of 'possible' interpretations where just about anything could be made to fit the outcome to support the original claim. If a claim or theory cannot be tested then it cannot be falsified and thus it violates a central principle of science (that of falsifiability: see Braithwaite, 2006; Carroll, 2004). If a theory cannot be falsified then no evidence can be gleaned that would speak to the issue one way or the other - it is thus scientifically meaningless. Ideas that cannot be tested are no more right than there are completely wrong.

Verbose language and prose.

One reason that theories from pseudoscience are vague and untestable is that the language used by the proponents is far too vacuous itself. This often results in a 'theory' that is so conceptually slippery it becomes difficult to identify what is actually being argued - or how one might test it. Due to their nebulous content, such practices also nearly always hide all sorts of circular reasoning errors. Over-complex words, phrases and over-long sentences are employed in an attempt to 'look' scientific and intelligent.

Indeed, in pseudoscience the more scientific-type language employed, the more 'plausible' it appears to be. However, all this really accomplishes is confusion. Poorly defined terms like 'energy' 'resonance' 'quantum' 'nano' 'dimensions' are all used with no useful explicit definitions provided. They are meant to look scientific, to look respectable in order to add weight to an idea which is in reality both implausible and improbable. Poor writing often reflects poor thought and poor understanding. Whenever one encounters flowery and verbose language it is likely the authors / speakers do not fully understand what they are talking about. Verbose language is used to fill-in the gaps of knowledge by making it sound as if something profound and insightful is being said, when in fact the sentence rarely goes anywhere!

Conceptual hijacking.

An increasing trend in contemporary pseudoscience is to hijack aspects from mainstream science in an attempt to appear more scientific. This is usually done with very new areas of science where the public's understanding (and that of scientists themselves), is low. Recent examples include areas like quantum mechanics and string theory from the field of Physics. Paranormal theories that hijack these areas (in an attempt to make their poor ideas look more plausible) are riddled with huge misunderstandings over these concepts. Conceptual hijacking plays on the public's lack of understanding and presents a twisted version of science that bares little reality to the truth.

Confirmation-bias (selective evidence).

Many people report a common perception of thinking about someone, when the phone then rings and the caller is the person they were thinking of. Is this strong evidence for a psychic ability between these people? The answer is no. It reflects a selective bias in memory and reason. Although we can remember the instances when this does happen (as they can be striking) we rarely remember the instances when it is not the person we were thinking of. Our memory is biased to place an emphasis on the 'hits' and ignore the 'misses'.

In a similar manner, researchers can sometimes concentrate only on that evidence that is consistent with the argument being developed (the hits) and ignore other evidence which contradicts it (the misses). This is known as the confirmation bias (where we are biased to only notice observations that confirm our assumptions). The confirmation bias relies on a positive biased focus and weighting towards only that evidence which is consistent with the current belief or world-view, and a negative bias to ignore results that challenge the view. It may be impressive to see a dowser find water in a single trial, but this on its own does not mean dowsing works. When we run tests and see that on many trials the dowser failed to locate water the scant and periodic instances when they are successful no longer looks impressive.

Metaphorical / analogy driven thinking.

Metaphors and analogies are essential to science and theory. Complex and more abstract areas of science rely particularly on metaphor and analogy to add clarity to knowledge and to communicate that knowledge. This is perfectly legitimate and indeed, to some extent, unavoidable. In science, analogies and metaphors may emerge as useful ways to think about, describe, and explain objective facts and evidence. For example, psychologists have employed the metaphor of visual selective attention being like a 'spotlight' illuminating the relevant information out there in the world from the surrounding darkness of all that we ignore. In many respects this has proved a very fruitful metaphor guiding thinking in this area of study. The problem here is not the use of analogies or metaphor in scientific thinking, but the clear abuse of them.

The problem with pseudoscience is its use and over-reliance on metaphor as an argument in and of itself. Rather than employ metaphors and analogies as illustrations of scientific knowledge, pseudoscience employs analogies to deduce new conclusions and propose alternative truths. At this point it no longer becomes a mere illustration; it becomes an argument by analogy (or metaphor; Thouless, 1968).

Quite often, the richer and more intuitively appealing the analogy, the more true the claim being made appears to be.
This can occur to such an extent that the analogy becomes a potent mind-trap and dominates all thinking on this issue. This is an error. Scientific arguments should be based on evidence, not analogy. The role of analogy in science is for illustration and communication - it is not for basing a claim of provisional truth. All analogies provide a degree of similarity to that which it is being applied to - this is why they are recruited as an illustration. However, there is also much dissimilarity as well and this is often missed (again another form of selection-bias). Ultimately, every analogy and metaphor will cease to work so it is crucial that any argument is not solely dependent on the analogy for its claim as a truth. As Thouless (1968) goes on to point out:

"Even the most successful analogies in the history of science breakdown at some point. Analogies are a valuable guide as to what facts we may expect, but are never final evidence as to what we shall discover. A guide whose reliability is certain to give out at some point must obviously be accepted with caution. We can never feel certain of a conclusion which rests only on analogy and we must always look for more direct proof"

(Thouless, 1968; pp142-143)

In some cases the analogy has no direct relevance or implication for the case being argued (the fallacy of the argument by irrelevant analogy; a special case of the non-sequitur type of fallacy). For example, modern creationists and advocates of intelligent design use analogies drawn from human design and engineering to argue for similar patterns in nature. The implication by such a comparison is that a designer must have been involved in the creation of the universe. Here the fallacy is to use a metaphor and analogy of a 'known' designer (i.e., something humans have designed and built) to prove the case of a divine designer. This type of comparison is an irrelevance. In addition, a closer examination often reveals that most pseudoscientific ideas are almost totally purely metaphorical in nature, form and content. That is to say, there are no reliable data, no firm facts, or evidence - just metaphor. This basically amounts to little more than a nice story - though not necessarily a correct or true one.

A good example of an over-reliance on metaphor and analogy is the 'stone-tape' metaphor that parapsychologists have used to explain ghostly sightings. According to the stone-tape account, human 'energies' and actions are somehow recorded in the immediate atmosphere and stored in the stone of a building or room, which can then be played back 'somehow' in 'someway' as a ghostly manifestation at a later date. The metaphor here is the notion of the making and playing back of recordings. However, despite its popularity, there is no scientific evidence to support this idea - and there never has been. Indeed, it is not at all clear as to how such recordings could be made by stone, and how they could be played back. All we are told is that it can occur 'somehow' in 'someway' - even though no plausible physical mechanism exists. This is an example of an over-reliance on a metaphor to support a non-scientific idea. The problem here is the analogy and metaphor itself can blind the untrained mind to the lack of actual facts and evidence present in the argument.

"The mere fact that the argument is in the form of an analogy is often enough to force the immediate irrational acceptance. There seems to be no other explanation of the extraordinary extent to which otherwise intelligent people become convinced of highly improbable things because they have heard them supported by an analogy whose unsoundness should be apparent to an imbecile"

(Thouless, 1968; pp146)

Anecdotes as evidence.

Although anecdotal evidence has its place in scientific theory: no theory should be solely dependent on anecdotal evidence. Anecdotal evidence is a poor and unreliable source of evidence. For example, it is important that any theory of memory can explain the anecdotal experience of forgetting, but this should not just be based on anecdotes of forgetting, but on empirical demonstrations of the failure to retain information under controlled conditions. This leads to reliable and valid data on which to build a scientific account for the object of study. Similarly, theories of language need to be able to explain tip-of-the-tongue experiences (where we feel as if what we want to say is just failing to reach our ability to actually say it), slips of the tongue experiences (where we say a related word instead of the one we meant). However, the anecdotal experience of these instances does nothing to explain why and how they actually occur. These experiences are the products of psychological processes; however these products do nothing to explain the underlying processes themselves. Knowing that we have the phenomenal experience of consciousness, does not explain what consciousness is, or how it occurs.

One major problem with pseudoscience is that it places a strong and selective emphasis on anecdotes, and anecdotes alone, as support for its claims and theories. In reality, personal anecdotes alone are not a viable argument against data, facts, theory, empirical observation, and objective measurement. Lots of anecdotes do not support a case any more than a few anecdotes do. This is because all anecdotes are provided via a process which is itself fallible and prone to many sources of error. Anecdotal evidence has its place in scientific theory - but it is no contender for a source of information which can provide a mechanistic understanding the mental universe. Contrary to the popular saying, data is not the plural of anecdote.

Lack of explicit mechanisms


Pseudoscience is characterised by a complete lack of viable explicit mechanisms of action for the object being studied. Even if we were to accept some instances as fact, there is still no clear idea how these phenomena would work or how they could work. There is no clear and plausible proposed mechanism for how apparitions are supposed to be recorded in stone, no clear mechanism for how astrology is supposed to influence human behaviour, no clear mechanism for how the mind could survive bodily death or how liquids can hold a memory (as is claimed in homeopathy).

This lack of explicitness is related to some of the other characteristics listed above. For example, the fact that an idea is nebulous in turn makes it difficult to test such ideas (i.e., cannot be falsified). Furthermore, an idea can be nebulous due to verbose language (see above). However, even when these factors are not a major concern there is still a lack of a workable explicit mechanism. Even the best and clearest explanations of homeopathy, apparitions, alternative health, and psychic phenomena still fail badly at outlining a specific mechanism for how they are supposed to work. Although the lack of any mechanism is not, in itself, evidence against the existence of such phenomena occurring, the lack of any plausible mechanism waiting verification is not particularly convincing evidence for it being genuine either.

There are many areas of experimental science where mechanisms of action are not well understood - however, under these circumstances there will be some factual and accepted knowledge that provides a framework for thinking. In addition, although a mechanism may not be known, candidate mechanisms will be well specified to a level that guides future experimentation and thinking. What counts in science is the ability for a provisional explanation to feasibly account for the phenomena via a proposed mechanism that is more explicit than any other. An explicit mechanism should also generate clear predictions and these predictions should be testable (and falsifiable). The mechanism should say why the phenomenon occurs, what the principal components are, how it works, and what it does.

In contrast to scientific mechanisms and models, Parapsychology has been actively investigating paranormal and psychic phenomena since the 1940s - and yet despite the decades that have passed, no reliable evidence, or explicit and plausible mechanism has ever been proposed that suggests paranormal phenomena are a real veridical objective event.




Special pleading (elusive evidence).


Proponents of pseudoscience often claim that scientific testing is not the best way to test their claim; there is something special about the claim that makes it different to other disciplines. This special pleading is often accompanied by other fallacious reasoning such as scientists being too 'close-minded' to see the truth or that 'science has been wrong before'.

These claims invariably arise because when the pseudoscience is tested by scientists, the claimed results do not occur. One of the hallmarks of science is not only producing results and having those results reviewed by peers and published, but that those results can be reproduced (under controlled conditions) by other scientists independently.

This point is an important one. If something is real it will manifest itself regardless of who's doing the testing or whether the testers believe in it or not. If the phenomenon requires special (i.e. non-scientific) conditions or the testers have to believe in it for it to show up then it's highly likely that the phenomenon is not real and is merely a result of wishful thinking and confounding factors introduced by non-scientific testing.

Genuine phenomena will stand up to scrutiny (!)




Conspiracy theory.


Pseudosciences are often portrayed as real truths that "they" don't want you to know about. "They", whoever they may be, are accused of suppressing the evidence for their own self-interest. For example, the 'real' cure for cancer is suppressed by 'big pharma' (pharmaceutical companies) so that they can keep making huge profits selling useless drugs whilst people die.

Just how the conspiracy theorists come to be aware of this suppressed evidence however, is never explained.

Summary.

The defining feature of science is that hypotheses and theories that are put forward must be capable of being tested and shown to be false should they actually be so - this is the scientific criterion of falsifiability.
As our examples above show, the tell-tale signs of pseudoscience are ploys that lead their claims away from being falsifiable.

Pseudoscience then, can be described as theories, methodologies or practises that claim to be scientific but which are presented in such a manner that they can not be falsified by empirical testing.
Charly
User ID: 10151606
United States
01/24/2013 12:42 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
In her latest newsletter Nancy Lieder shows some of the worst lenseflares again. These people never understand the difference between reality and simple photo mistakes.
I`ve read that Nancy feels some wobble on the earth, even so big that the seasons change. This is pure nonsense. And there is a very accurate method of figuring this out. First of all a very old method would be solar eclipses. And they all happen like calculated and predicted, exactly in the necessary time frames, locations and positions.

A far better and daily available method of verifying such crazy claims is offered by our modern technology. Even an aberration of 1 degree in our earth`s position or rotation would immediately affect all gps-systems. No plane would be able to find its destination, no car would arrive at the target. Millions of people are using such gps-systems daily (me too), so that clearly indicates that the latest hoax of Nancy Lieder is debunked again cause my gps finds its way very precisely. Nancy Lieder`s crazy ideas would imply an aberration between 10 to 35+ degrees which often happens quite suddenly. All our public traffic systems would immediately break down. You see it is a fantasy story of an old woman, more or less a schoolboy prank to twit some uneducated.

Nancy Lieder = hoax aunt = debunked. Bad news for her cult again.
More about TunnelVision
User ID: 32937981
Germany
01/24/2013 01:00 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Irrationalism has no boundaries:
[link to poleshift.ning.com]
Comment by ann s.:
A lens flare cannot be eclipsed, so the Australia and Moldova pictures cannot be of lens flares.

Therefore unlike the usual method of the debunkers of jumping on the best evidence and screaming "lens flare!" they will more likely say nothing.

Funny how closely the very people who claim ZetaTalk is a cult and Planet X is a myth so carefully watch the PS ning. Actions speak louder than words!


Lets start with that Video that Nancy took as proof from a guy who filmed a standing image of his screen. (While deleting comments of people who question him, see comments:
RangerParus 1 Week ago
Ah, deleting comments. That's refreshing for a truther....

[link to www.youtube.com]

Bravo! Truely "best evidence" eh?
lame
btw: Thanks for confirming that whacky amateur videos/images are the "best evidence".

Obviously you still haven't understood the principles of empirical testing.

Remember:
If something is real it will manifest itself regardless of who's doing the testing or whether the testers believe in it or not. If the phenomenon requires special (i.e. non-scientific) conditions or the testers have to believe in it for it to show up then it's highly likely that the phenomenon is not real and is merely a result of wishful thinking and confounding factors introduced by non-scientific testing.

Suprised a former Moderator bothers to read what the guru and their followers are doing?

Suprised some people (the debunkers) don't just let Nancy continue to manipulate and mislead people?

Really?

What would you do if you catch a lying coward manipulating people?

Grab your shoes and run naughty? A Confrontation?

Actions speak louder than words indeed.
rockon