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Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!

 
andrew

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09/20/2009 10:58 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
You can protect yourself from unsafe groups and leaders by developing a good BS detector. Check things out, know the facts and examine the evidence. A safe group will be patient with your decision making process. If a group or leader grows angry and anxious just because you want to make an informed and careful decision before joining; beware.
 Quoting: tater


WARNING SIGNS
By Rick Ross, Expert Consultant and Intervention Specialist

as
checked against zetatalk:

Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.
1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.

no authoritarianism. fans decide what to believe or what actions to take, based on their own resolve. noone is forced to follow or not follow these advices. decision is up to YOU.

2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

Live chat IS meant for questions. critical inquiry doe not equal violent disrupting.

3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.

no donations from fans or anyone other than volunteer donations. zetatalk is on Nancy's budget. for example, i do not pay anything for it!

4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.

"unreasonable"?! now, who will tell us what is "reasonable" and what isnt? let it to people to decide what it is to them.

5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.

one can think whatever, but as for those former followers - it is their own choice and they are free to do what they will.

6. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.

?! noone is "abused", except by their own.

7. There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.

blackmail attempts are classics. what group or individual has NO?

8. Followers feel they can never be "good enough".

if particular individuals are not "good", they are not. they are far between, though.

9. The group/leader is always right.

many among the fans doubt or disagree with many aspects of the message.

10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

many of the fans came to these same conclusions independently, as intuition or simple logic. zetas often agree with what questioning human says.

Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader.
1. Extreme obsessiveness regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.

zetatalk advice is EXTREMELY practical - get hand tools and start gardening!

2. Individual identity, the group, the leader and/or God as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the follower's mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused--as that person's involvement with the group/leader continues and deepens.

Nancy is Nancy, Zetas are Zetas, i am me, etc. noone is "blurred".

3. Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as "persecution".

not always. it can be just foolish arrogance or deliberate disruption.

4. Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the group/leader in personal behavior.

i will say for myself. english is not my native language. zetatalk is one of the things i read alot for many years now - no wonder i picked some "Nancy Lieder english" or even her style of speaking.

5. Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought.

zetatalk **encourages** independent thought, critical thinking and individual choice.

6. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without group/leader involvement.

as i said before, i (and sure about other fans) dont need ZetaTalk to decide on my actions.

7. Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader agenda, which seems to supercede any personal goals or individual interests.

people can decide to cooperate with whosever goals they choose. [and integrate anyones goals into their lives].

8. A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.
Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader.

a person can decide to do all these, no? or it is not free to decide re this?

9. Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.

of course not.

10. Former followers are at best-considered negative or worse evil and under bad influences. They can not be trusted and personal contact is avoided.

if people dont agree - they are obliged to maintain contact? whys that?!!


Ten signs of a safe group/leader.
1. A safe group/leader will answer your questions without becoming judgmental and punitive.

judgement is a way to deal with reality. people constantly "judge" everything they encounter in life. add to that that people in fact ARE good or evil, motivation is what counts.

2. A safe group/leader will disclose information such as finances and often offer an independently audited financial statement regarding budget and expenses.

group leader has to disclose her personal budget and finances, from which the website is maintained? what for?

and more generally, why do i have to know about the personal finances of the person who maintains a website, which i read and lose no single cent for it? how does it constitute "group leader" at all?

3. Safe groups and leaders will tell you more than you want to know.

certainly true about zetatalk!

4. A safe group/leader is often democratic, sharing decision making and encouraging accountability and oversight.

watch how many are encouraged to assist on ZT live chats, me included.

5. A safe group/leader may have disgruntled former followers, but will not vilify, excommunicate and forbid others from associating with them.

Nancy/Zetas are not anyones parents to decide for people.

6. A safe group/leader will not have a paper trail of overwhelmingly negative records, books, articles and statements about them.

hehehe... How many do-gooders are blackmailed? you have your answer

7. A safe group/leader will encourage family communication, community interaction and existing friendships and not feel threatened.

one decides himself.

8. A safe group/leader will recognize reasonable boundaries and limitations when dealing with others.

Nancy never crossed that line.

9. A safe group/leader will encourage critical thinking, individual autonomy and feelings of self-esteem.

exactly what the whole ZetaTalk thrives to achieve!

10. A safe group/leader will admit failings and mistakes and accept constructive criticism and advice.

check!

A safe group/leader will not be the only source of knowledge and learning excluding everyone else, but value dialogue and the free exchange of ideas.

they refer to other sources who predict with accuracy.

Last Edited by andrew on 09/20/2009 11:45 AM
Circuit Breaker

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09/20/2009 10:59 AM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Agreed - ZetaTalk is still immensely popular!!!
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***

Perhaps...but that doesn't mean it's correct or even believed. We all know that you and User try to make popularity mean that people believe her, or that it means the information contained therein is correct. But it doesn't. In fact, I'd like to point out that her threads are popular, yes...but popular with "debunkers!" Ever since we largely abandoned her threads, they struggle to stay afloat. Which is one reason why you keep coming over here.
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
Circuit Breaker

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09/20/2009 11:04 AM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
ZetaTalk is immensely popular!!!

hf
 Quoting: andrew

A claim not supported by the facts. Popular? With who? It may be popular with those who believe her. But the number of people who actually believe her is few. As pointed out, her threads struggle to stay afloat and no longer get the page counts they used to.
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
Menow
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09/20/2009 11:08 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
It's ego all the way, and we are ALL susceptable. Zetatalk is a VERY crafty lure for the ego. I am firmly resolved to the opinion that "Zetas" are something beyond the simple consciousnes of little Nancy Lieder.


That just shows how gullible YOU are.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 775350


I think you are taking my comments way too seriously.
Menow
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09/20/2009 11:09 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
It's ego all the way, and we are ALL susceptable. Zetatalk is a VERY crafty lure for the ego. I am firmly resolved to the opinion that "Zetas" are something beyond the simple consciousnes of little Nancy Lieder.

Not really. That can be taken in a number of ways and I intend to leave it like that. I will say that I believe that Nancy is possessed by whatever "Zetas" is. That is not to necessarily imply the standard religious connotations.


Speak for yourself! I'm not susceptible!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 775350


Ahh... you claim to be egoless while attacking me on my point of view...

Heh!

I believe YOU are possessed by whatever "Zetas" is.

'Little Nancy Lieder's consciousness is more than capable of creating everything 'The Zetas' have said. It's all bullshit after all, exactly the sort of crap I would expect to be made up by a relatively uneducated Wisconsin woman.

I think you believe ZetaTalk is more significant than it is because you need to justify to yourself the amount of time you have spent 'debunking' it. Actually it's meaningless crap produced by a nutter. I see no reason to adopt your rather po-faced and arrogant attitude. You seem to be bordering on being as deluded as Lieder herself!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 775350


Why are you here, exactly?
Anonymous Coward
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09/20/2009 11:10 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
[link to www.skepticalmind.com]
***ZetaMax***

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09/20/2009 11:13 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
So "consciousness" has an "existence" outside of "matter"?

Is it a form of "energy"?

After all, electricity needs a "medium", but since it can travel through multiple conductors, nobody claims that electricity is simply a "byproduct" of any particular conductor.

Is "consciousness" a form of "energy" - and if so, would it conform to some of the same "laws" - such as conversation of energy (energy is neither created nor destroyed - simply conveyed and transformed)?


Yes, its energy IMO. It probably can transform to "matter" because there is no "matter", matter is just a concept of our human awareness sytem ... all we are aware of is nothing but a dream we are stuck in ... what is "really" out there, nobody knows.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 775357

Some have suggested that the universe is made up of three primary components that essentially are the same thing in different states of constant and eternal movement transformation and synthesis.

energy ==> matter ==> CONSICOUSNESS ==> energy ==> matter ...

Your thoughts???
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
Menow
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09/20/2009 11:14 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
but i believe real Zetas, yes.


Because your stupid, thats why ... you could as well join Scientology.


i "join" anything that has grain of truth, whatever it is. [and i believe many sources have IT].

scientology certainly does, as well as christianity, as well as science. but no one of these have the ultimate truth, it is dispersed in them, and mixed with misjudgements.

while ZetaTalk certainly doesnt have an ultimate truth, to my mind it is closest to it. its limitations are:
1-Zetas are only Zetas, they do not know everything;
2-putting it to words can somewhat distort the message (it is after all, Nancy's own understanding in choosing best words to describe these concepts).

and what do you mean "join"? i did not ever and probably will not ever join any organized group, religiuos gathering. unless it would be a group of ZetaTalk fans establishing a self-reliant community!

hf
 Quoting: andrew


If Zetatalk has flaws, why won't you ADMIT any of the specific flaws? Face it... ALL of the astronomical claims are FALSE. Do you deny that?
Menow
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09/20/2009 11:16 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
but i believe real Zetas, yes.


Because your stupid, thats why ... you could as well join Scientology.


i "join" anything that has grain of truth, whatever it is. [and i believe many sources have IT].

scientology certainly does, as well as christianity, as well as science. but no one of these have the ultimate truth, it is dispersed in them, and mixed with misjudgements.

while ZetaTalk certainly doesnt have an ultimate truth, to my mind it is closest to it. its limitations are:
1-Zetas are only Zetas, they do not know everything;
2-putting it to words can somewhat distort the message (it is after all, Nancy's own understanding in choosing best words to describe these concepts).

and what do you mean "join"? i did not ever and probably will not ever join any organized group, religiuos gathering. unless it would be a group of ZetaTalk fans establishing a self-reliant community!

hf
 Quoting: andrew


How could a claim like: "Earth is halted in orbit" be due to any simple distortion of language?? How is it not an outright lie?
Anonymous Coward
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09/20/2009 11:20 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Some have suggested that the universe is made up of three primary components that essentially are the same thing in different states of constant and eternal movement transformation and synthesis.

energy ==> matter ==> CONSICOUSNESS ==> energy ==> matter ...

Your thoughts???
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***



Some have suggested that the universe is made up of three primary components that essentially are the same thing in different states of constant and eternal movement transformation and synthesis.

energy ==> matter ==> CONSICOUSNESS ==> energy ==> matter ...

Your thoughts???
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***


I cant aswer this, my knowledge is much to small to answer. I believe all conciouss beings share a universal concioussness. We are like probes by wich the universe experiences itself.

Here a good documenary on that btw, ita about quantum physics/concioussness:

[link to video.google.de]

Circuit Breaker

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09/20/2009 11:26 AM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Maybe some of this applies to ZetaTalk, or any other cult for that matter.

BTW, my first post, cheers all!

WARNING SIGNS
By Rick Ross, Expert Consultant and Intervention Specialist

Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.
1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.
 Quoting: tater

Nancy fits that. She pretty much claims she is the emissary of the "Zetas"...here to spread the word. And she definitely has no accountability. When something doesn't happen or something goes wrong, she claims the "Zetas" were responsible...either directly or indirectly.


2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.
 Quoting: tater

That's definitely Nancy. If you ask her questions whose answers prove her wrong, or questions that are too difficult for her to answer...you find yourself banned and labeled a "government debunker."

3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.
 Quoting: tater

I don't know about this one so much. Although, I know that someone named Jan questioned Nancy about some funds during one of their meetings and Nancy avoided the question like the plague.

4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.
 Quoting: tater

Again...that's Nancy. Prophesizes that some "rogue planet" is coming to cause a "pole shift" and wipe out "90% of life on Earth." Believes that the government has dispatched people to "debunk" her.


5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.
 Quoting: tater

I can't say she fits that so much. For instance, I don't think she's made any comments on Dell coming forward and telling everyone that Nancy is wrong. Although, ZetaMax has implied that Dell is evil...or at least being pressured by the government.


9. The group/leader is always right.
 Quoting: tater

That's Nancy. You either believe her...or it's "proof" that you're a "shill" or "government agent" and you will be labeled as such.


10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.
 Quoting: tater

To some degree that is Nancy because others have claimed to be in contact with the "Zetas" and Nancy has rejected those claims and "debunked" them.
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
Menow
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09/20/2009 11:41 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
You can protect yourself from unsafe groups and leaders by developing a good BS detector. Check things out, know the facts and examine the evidence. A safe group will be patient with your decision making process. If a group or leader grows angry and anxious just because you want to make an informed and careful decision before joining; beware.


WARNING SIGNS
By Rick Ross, Expert Consultant and Intervention Specialist

as
checked against zetatalk:

Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.
1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.

no authoritarianism. fans decide what to believe or what actions to take, based on their own resolve. noone is forced to follow or not follow these advices. decision is up to YOU.
 Quoting: andrew


It is only SAID to be "up to you". There is a clear system of judgement of and retribution against those who do not believe.

2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

Live chat IS meant for questions. critical inquiry doe not equal violent disrupting.
 Quoting: andrew


"Violent"??? What is "violent" about pushing questions Nancy does not want to see? Your very description belies your impartiality.


3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.

no donations from fans or anyone other than volunteer donations. zetatalk is on Nancy's budget. for example, i do not pay anything for it!
[/uote]

There are $ which went for "projects" which only seem to have been improvements to Nancy's own personal property.

4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.

"unreasonable"?! now, who will tell us what is "reasonable" and what isnt? let it to people to decide what it is to them.
 Quoting: andrew


NANCY/"Zetas" say what is "reasonable", hmm? THEY say that there is a MASSIVE government conspiracy to silence the message of Zetatalk. That is the very definition of a cult, you dolt! It uses the fear of persecution to solidify it's power over it's members. Get a CLUE!

5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.

one can think whatever, but as for those former followers - it is their own choice and they are free to do what they will.
 Quoting: andrew


Of course it is, but that is DISAPPROVED OF by the group and its leader(s). Duh?

6. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.

?! noone is "abused", except by their own.
 Quoting: andrew


Semantics. Anyone who questioned Nancy/"Zetas" veracity on TT-watch was summmerily attacked and branded as a "disrupter".

7. There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.

blackmail attempts are classics. what group or individual has NO?
 Quoting: andrew


Huh? So that means there are never any abuses? Get a grip, Andrew.

8. Followers feel they can never be "good enough".

if particular individuals are not "good", they are not. they are far between, though.
 Quoting: andrew


I can make no sense out of your comment.

9. The group/leader is always right.

many among the fans doubt or disagree with many aspects of the message.
 Quoting: andrew


But they are extremely reticent to SAY so. That has been utterly obvious for all these years. Those who say: "But Nancy... I don't see PX in the sky" are attacked for "not looking hard enough".

10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

many of the fans came to these same conclusions independently, as intuition or simple logic. zetas often agree with what questioning human says.
 Quoting: andrew


Conclusions about what? Please be SPECIFIC. Do you mean when people don't really know where the Sun is supposed to be in the sky, but think they REMEMBER it being somewhere else a YEAR ago?? That is not LOGIC. It is brainwashing to accept a false premise.

Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader.
1. Extreme obsessiveness regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.

(snip)
 Quoting: andrew


I doubt that Andrew will respond to my points. He can't really do so without exposing just how cult-minded he really is.
Anonymous Coward
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09/20/2009 11:47 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Agreed - ZetaTalk is still immensely popular!!!
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***


Only as a laughing stock!
andrew

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09/20/2009 11:58 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
It is only SAID to be "up to you". There is a clear system of judgement of and retribution against those who do not believe.

yeah!? what could she supposedly do to those "who dont believe"?!


NANCY/"Zetas" say what is "reasonable", hmm? THEY say that there is a MASSIVE government conspiracy to silence the message of Zetatalk. That is the very definition of a cult, you dolt! It uses the fear of persecution to solidify it's power over it's members. Get a CLUE!

how can you be so sure there is no such conspiracy? world history is a list of conspiracies, it is made of them

one can think whatever, but as for those former followers - it is their own choice and they are free to do what they will.
Of course it is, but that is DISAPPROVED OF by the group and its leader(s). Duh?


and so what? why should one care what is approved or disapproved by the group/leader?

Semantics. Anyone who questioned Nancy/"Zetas" veracity on TT-watch was summmerily attacked and branded as a "disrupter".

not without basis, im sure

9. The group/leader is always right.

many among the fans doubt or disagree with many aspects of the message.

But they are extremely reticent to SAY so. That has been utterly obvious for all these years. Those who say: "But Nancy... I don't see PX in the sky" are attacked for "not looking hard enough".


i say so. why should i challenge Nancy. i cherish what she does and says and disagreement about something doesnt mean i should fight her to death.

I doubt that Andrew will respond to my points. He can't really do so without exposing just how cult-minded he really is.

haha.
what, in truth, is cult-minded? i'll tell you - those who take academic science, the whole immense architecture of canonic approved scientific beliefs, without critical thinking - that's cult-mind.

Last Edited by andrew on 09/20/2009 12:05 PM
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what, in truth, is cult-minded? i'll tell you - those who take academic science, the whole immense architecture of canonic approved scientific beliefs - that's cult-mind.
 Quoting: andrew



You dislike science because you are too stupid to understand it.
andrew

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09/20/2009 12:06 PM
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what, in truth, is cult-minded? i'll tell you - those who take academic science, the whole immense architecture of canonic approved scientific beliefs - that's cult-mind.



You dislike science because you are too stupid to understand it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 775357



i intended to write:

"those who take academic science, the whole immense architecture of canonic approved scientific beliefs, without critical thinking - that's cult-mind."
Menow
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
It is only SAID to be "up to you". There is a clear system of judgement of and retribution against those who do not believe.

yeah!? what could she supposedly do to those "who dont believe"?!
 Quoting: andrew


Browbeat them. It is emotional intimidation. She could tell them to "Go drown in the poleshift" as she certainly did say to someone. People are intimidated through the fear that they may be spiritually inadequate. They may fear that they will be sent to a water world to live life as an octopus, or don't you REMEMBER that that is the fate of those who are spiritually inferior and called "STS"?

NANCY/"Zetas" say what is "reasonable", hmm? THEY say that there is a MASSIVE government conspiracy to silence the message of Zetatalk. That is the very definition of a cult, you dolt! It uses the fear of persecution to solidify it's power over it's members. Get a CLUE!

how can you be so sure there is no such conspiracy? world history is a list of conspiracies, it is made of them
 Quoting: andrew


I know that Nancy said *I* was a member of that conspiracy and I know that I am NOT any such thing.

Do you REALLY believe that the world's astronomers can be controlled into denying the existence of a large planet right in the inner Solar System, and that Earth is halted in orbit?? REALLY???????

one can think whatever, but as for those former followers - it is their own choice and they are free to do what they will.
Of course it is, but that is DISAPPROVED OF by the group and its leader(s). Duh?


and so what? why should one care what is approved or disapproved by the group/leader?
 Quoting: andrew


You REALLY don't think people care about the approval of others in their chosen social group? You CAN'T believe that.

Semantics. Anyone who questioned Nancy/"Zetas" veracity on TT-watch was summmerily attacked and branded as a "disrupter".

not without basis, im sure
 Quoting: andrew


That is not the point. The point is that you said people are allowed to question the leader, but THEY WERE NOT ALLOWED TO DO THAT.

9. The group/leader is always right.

many among the fans doubt or disagree with many aspects of the message.

But they are extremely reticent to SAY so. That has been utterly obvious for all these years. Those who say: "But Nancy... I don't see PX in the sky" are attacked for "not looking hard enough".


i say so. why should i challenge Nancy. i cherish what she does and says and disagreement about something doesnt mean i should fight her to death.
 Quoting: andrew


Again, missing the point. The POINT is about the ability to QUESTION THE PROCLAIMATIONS OF THE LEADER. Such was NOT ALLOWED on TT-watch and is STILL NOT ALLOWED to this day.

I doubt that Andrew will respond to my points. He can't really do so without exposing just how cult-minded he really is.

haha.
what, in truth, is cult-minded? i'll tell you - those who take academic science, the whole immense architecture of canonic approved scientific beliefs - that's cult-mind.


Feel free to show how the tenents of basic science are in error. You might start with Newton's laws, which Nancy/"Zetas" say are faulty. You have the floor. Please show your math.
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
"those who take academic science, the whole immense architecture of canonic approved scientific beliefs, without critical thinking - that's cult-mind."
 Quoting: andrew


You lick Nancys boots all the time without critical thinking and never ask questions that are hard to answer ... and I watch you very close, little communist Ukranian:

Thread: OBAMA is a COMMUNIST!!! WAKE UP!!!!

^
what's wrong with being a "COMMUNIST NATION"?
 Quoting: andrew
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
what, in truth, is cult-minded? i'll tell you - those who take academic science, the whole immense architecture of canonic approved scientific beliefs - that's cult-mind.



You dislike science because you are too stupid to understand it.



i intended to write:

"those who take academic science, the whole immense architecture of canonic approved scientific beliefs, without critical thinking - that's cult-mind."
 Quoting: andrew


Please apply some "critical thinking" to the "Zeta" astronomical claims and tell us what you conclude. You may pick any one you like to begin with. How about "Moon abnormally rotating"? That's a personal favorite of mine.

You may begin critically thinking now. Please outline your processes, step by step.
andrew

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09/20/2009 12:30 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Browbeat them. It is emotional intimidation. She could tell them to "Go drown in the poleshift" as she certainly did say to someone. People are intimidated through the fear that they may be spiritually inadequate. They may fear that they will be sent to a water world to live life as an octopus, or don't you REMEMBER that that is the fate of those who are spiritually inferior and called "STS"?

I know that Nancy said *I* was a member of that conspiracy and I know that I am NOT any such thing.

Do you REALLY believe that the world's astronomers can be controlled into denying the existence of a large planet right in the inner Solar System, and that Earth is halted in orbit?? REALLY???????
 Quoting: Menow 405501


if someone is spiritually immature - they are spiritually immature. it is a reality and theres no pint in "protecting" them from letting them know it.

if someone doesnt believe that there are spiritual orientations or leave alone octpus water world awaiting for them, - then why fear it? no, really?...

those STS are not "spiritually inferior", but they violate basic principle of equality. by doing so, and violently, they automatically eject themselves from such treatment. iow, we should not tolerate those who undermine principle of tolerance, for example. simple as that, instant justice, karma. if they deny equal treatment to others, them we are not only justified but supposed to deny this to THEM, to maintain justice!

yes, i believe a worldwide conspiracy is possible. not a theory of coverup but a fact of coverup.

Last Edited by andrew on 09/20/2009 12:31 PM
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
if someone is spiritually immature - they are spiritually immature. it is a reality and theres no pint in "protecting" them from letting them know it.

if someone doesnt believe that there are spiritual orientations or leave alone octpus water world awaiting for them, - then why fear it? no, really?...

those STS are not "spiritually inferior", but they violate basic principle of equality. by doing so, and violently, they automatically eject themselves from such treatment. iow, we should not tolerate those who undermine principle of tolerance, for example. simple as that, instant justice, karma. if they deny equal treatment to others, them we are not only justified but supposed to deny this to THEM, to maintain justice!

yes, i believe a worldwide conspiracy is possible. not a theory of coverup but a fact of coverup.
 Quoting: andrew



Again your expose yourself as a cult follower ... saying STS are "better" than the usual human.

You really learnt your lessens when your country still was indoctrinated by communism, little commie ?
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
to maintain justice!
 Quoting: andrew


So you are the ones bringing justice to the world ? LMAO
***ZetaMax***

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Some have suggested that the universe is made up of three primary components that essentially are the same thing in different states of constant and eternal movement transformation and synthesis.

energy ==> matter ==> CONSICOUSNESS ==> energy ==> matter ...

Your thoughts???




Some have suggested that the universe is made up of three primary components that essentially are the same thing in different states of constant and eternal movement transformation and synthesis.

energy ==> matter ==> CONSICOUSNESS ==> energy ==> matter ...

Your thoughts???


I cant aswer this, my knowledge is much to small to answer. I believe all conciouss beings share a universal concioussness. We are like probes by wich the universe experiences itself.

Here a good documenary on that btw, ita about quantum physics/concioussness:

[link to video.google.de]


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 775357


>> my knowledge is much to small to answer

As is mine. However, from a purely observational standpoint, I see consciousness even at the amoeba level, and scientific studies have shown that it "remembers" painful sensory phenomena that it senses is dangerous to its continued existence and well-being. We also witness in nature a kind of "colony" consciousness where every member - though incapable of "comprehending" all the needs, movements, activities of the "hive", nevertheless plays it's "part" perfectly along with all the members. It's easy to hypothesize a kind of "gestalt" consciousness - a "collective" consciousness. You yourself have said:

>> I believe all conciouss beings share a universal concioussness.

Yet you call yourself an "atheist"? Wouldn't it be better to call yourself "spiritual" but not "religious"???
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
***ZetaMax***

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
if someone is spiritually immature - they are spiritually immature. it is a reality and theres no pint in "protecting" them from letting them know it.

if someone doesnt believe that there are spiritual orientations or leave alone octpus water world awaiting for them, - then why fear it? no, really?...

those STS are not "spiritually inferior", but they violate basic principle of equality. by doing so, and violently, they automatically eject themselves from such treatment. iow, we should not tolerate those who undermine principle of tolerance, for example. simple as that, instant justice, karma. if they deny equal treatment to others, them we are not only justified but supposed to deny this to THEM, to maintain justice!

yes, i believe a worldwide conspiracy is possible. not a theory of coverup but a fact of coverup.



Again your expose yourself as a cult follower ... saying STS are "better" than the usual human.

You really learnt your lessens when your country still was indoctrinated by communism, little commie ?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 775357

Not "better" - **incompatible**. Their behaviors - while satisfying to themselves - are QUITE disagreeable and burdensome to most others.
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Yet you call yourself an "atheist"? Wouldn't it be better to call yourself "spiritual" but not "religious"???
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***


Yes, I guess thats true.

With Atheism I mean that I dont believe in a superiour being ruling the universe.

I honestly believe quantum physics will reveal that everything is concioussness/energy. And I believe even the tinyest lifeforms contain a certain degree of concioussness.
***ZetaMax***

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Yet you call yourself an "atheist"? Wouldn't it be better to call yourself "spiritual" but not "religious"???


Yes, I guess thats true.

With Atheism I mean that I dont believe in a superiour being ruling the universe.

I honestly believe quantum physics will reveal that everything is concioussness/energy. And I believe even the tinyest lifeforms contain a certain degree of concioussness.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 775357

So you agree that consciousness exists at the "micro" level, and you agree that consicousness "probably" exists at the "ultra" **MACRO** level in the sense that there is a "universal" consicousness. However, I suppose you would assert that such a "universal" consciousness has no sense of "self", and therefore is quite "incapable" ordering the universe beyond the individual human's level of intelligence - and that we are the "summit" of consicousness's universal expression???

Last Edited by ***ZetaMaX*** on 09/20/2009 12:48 PM
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
Menow
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Browbeat them. It is emotional intimidation. She could tell them to "Go drown in the poleshift" as she certainly did say to someone. People are intimidated through the fear that they may be spiritually inadequate. They may fear that they will be sent to a water world to live life as an octopus, or don't you REMEMBER that that is the fate of those who are spiritually inferior and called "STS"?

I know that Nancy said *I* was a member of that conspiracy and I know that I am NOT any such thing.

Do you REALLY believe that the world's astronomers can be controlled into denying the existence of a large planet right in the inner Solar System, and that Earth is halted in orbit?? REALLY???????


if someone is spiritually immature - they are spiritually immature. it is a reality and theres no pint in "protecting" them from letting them know it.
 Quoting: andrew


You are presuming that such a belief system is TRUE AND VALID. Just another example of your brainwashed condition.

if someone doesnt believe that there are spiritual orientations or leave alone octpus water world awaiting for them, - then why fear it? no, really?...
 Quoting: andrew


Huh? The point is, that they *DO* believe it, because they have bought into Nancy's CULT! That's why she/"Zetas" are able to intimidate the believers.

You are avoiding the point of my assertions.

those STS are not "spiritually inferior", but they violate basic principle of equality. by doing so, and violently, they automatically eject themselves from such treatment. iow, we should not tolerate those who undermine principle of tolerance, for example. simple as that, instant justice, karma. if they deny equal treatment to others, them we are not only justified but supposed to deny this to THEM, to maintain justice!
 Quoting: andrew


Where does this "violently" thing come in? It seems that you are just inserting it to falsely paint those who question Nancy's proclaimations in a negative light.

yes, i believe a worldwide conspiracy is possible. not a theory of coverup but a fact of coverup.
 Quoting: andrew


How are the world's astronomers, THOUSANDS of whom are independant of ANY government connections and/or amatuer, but with fantastic personal equipment, possibly being controlled?

Why won't you simply go to ANY astronomy club and get them to show you the sky and see if you think they are all being controlled?
Menow
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09/20/2009 12:50 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
yes, i believe a worldwide conspiracy is possible. not a theory of coverup but a fact of coverup.
 Quoting: andrew


When are you going to begin demonstrating your "critical thinking" process and analyse the "Zeta" astronomical claims?
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
So you agree that consciousness exists at the "micro" level, and you agree that consicousness "probably" exists at the "ultra" **MACRO** level in the sense that there is a "universal" consicousness. However, I suppose you would assert that such a "universal" consciousness has no sense of "self", and therefore is quite "incapable" ordering the universe beyond the individual human's level of intelligence - and that we are the "summit" of consicousness's universal expression???
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***


Guess thats describes it pretty well ... though my english might not be good enough to get it 100% ... but yes, I think the universal concioussness has no sense of self, while Christians claim it (god) has a sense of self, at least thats how I get what Christians say.
J.William Dell

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09/20/2009 01:01 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Now that's some fine character display right there.

You come across already as a person of high principles. Nancy LIEDer could learn from your example. I am sure that she still holds to the fact that her Zeta rogue planet was imaged all those years ago. She seems so unwilling to acknowledge that her rogue planet was never actually imaged by your team as she claims. Nancy even seems to get quite "hostile" and "quick to denial" when it is brought up. I may have missed it but I am sure that Ms LIEDer now declares that you are part of the cover up.
 Quoting: The Lone Ranger



Yaada / Howmo and I had some arguments. At the time, he was certainly a thorn in my side ;o) Not easy to forget.
Knowing now that he was right, he deserves my apology for my comments made back then.

I have never considered myself an "expert" in imaging, although I am now working in the videography field after working in print media. If I knew then, what I know now, I most certainly would not have been on that "team".

These days, on questions of imaging,I prefer to defer to people like "Hap" who are experienced in astronomic imaging.

LOL, Me being part of a "cover up" is delusional thinking.

I doubt the Canadian Gov. would waste money to fund "PX cover up agents". There are too many bigger fish to fry.


Kindest Regards
JWD

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