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Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!

 
J.William Dell

User ID: 12576
Canada
09/20/2009 01:15 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Maybe some of this applies to ZetaTalk, or any other cult for that matter.

BTW, my first post, cheers all!

WARNING SIGNS
By Rick Ross, Expert Consultant and Intervention Specialist

Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.
1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.
2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.
3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.
4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.
5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.
6. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.
7. There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.
8. Followers feel they can never be "good enough".
9. The group/leader is always right.
10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader.
1. Extreme obsessiveness regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.
2. Individual identity, the group, the leader and/or God as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the follower's mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused--as that person's involvement with the group/leader continues and deepens.
3. Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as "persecution".
4. Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the group/leader in personal behavior.
5. Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought.
6. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without group/leader involvement.
7. Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader agenda, which seems to supercede any personal goals or individual interests.
8. A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.
Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader.
9. Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.
10. Former followers are at best-considered negative or worse evil and under bad influences. They can not be trusted and personal contact is avoided.

Ten signs of a safe group/leader.
1. A safe group/leader will answer your questions without becoming judgmental and punitive.
2. A safe group/leader will disclose information such as finances and often offer an independently audited financial statement regarding budget and expenses.
3. Safe groups and leaders will tell you more than you want to know.
4. A safe group/leader is often democratic, sharing decision making and encouraging accountability and oversight.
5. A safe group/leader may have disgruntled former followers, but will not vilify, excommunicate and forbid others from associating with them.
6. A safe group/leader will not have a paper trail of overwhelmingly negative records, books, articles and statements about them.
7. A safe group/leader will encourage family communication, community interaction and existing friendships and not feel threatened.
8. A safe group/leader will recognize reasonable boundaries and limitations when dealing with others.
9. A safe group/leader will encourage critical thinking, individual autonomy and feelings of self-esteem.
10. A safe group/leader will admit failings and mistakes and accept constructive criticism and advice.
A safe group/leader will not be the only source of knowledge and learning excluding everyone else, but value dialogue and the free exchange of ideas.

Don't be naïve, develop a good BS Detector.

You can protect yourself from unsafe groups and leaders by developing a good BS detector. Check things out, know the facts and examine the evidence. A safe group will be patient with your decision making process. If a group or leader grows angry and anxious just because you want to make an informed and careful decision before joining; beware.
 Quoting: tater



Wise words.

Welcome
JWD
Gerard

User ID: 334168
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09/20/2009 01:17 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
It is so easy to call someone a communist.
And let me tell you that when it's not misused and when there are no negative influences there is nothing bad about it.
The supression of thinking that was done by Stalin and the like is not something that can be called communism or socialism.
J.William Dell

User ID: 12576
Canada
09/20/2009 01:33 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Yes, that's right. I had forgotten about that one. Those various names came from random, spur of the moment inspiration or simply adding letters until I found an un-used nick to register. Actually, it was Yaaada, I believe. I just kept adding a's until it worked. "Howmo" came from "Howard Moore"... an identity I invented to try to avoid Nancy's(Clipper?) ban blitz on TT-watch long enough to get some good questions through the filter. I'll never forget where we pinned Nancy in a corner to the point where she abandoned her own forum. Good times!
 Quoting: Menow 405501


TT-watch overthrow and IRC take over by the debunkers. At that point (April/May 2003) it was becoming pretty obvious PX wasn't coming. The antics of both sides trying to control IRC, was humourous.

Loss of control of IRC and TT-watch at that time, may be the reason ZT ended up on GLP.

Your apology is easily accepted and friendship welcomed.
 Quoting: Menow 405501


Thank you

Yes, "Howmo" was banned by "Obany"(Gerard) over and over again. What a hoot! Those were the days. It's too bad that IMO and Sarah Mac are not around these days. Maybe they have more of a "life" now than some of us!;O
 Quoting: Menow 405501


Interesting times ;o)

Regards
JWD
J.William Dell

User ID: 12576
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09/20/2009 01:52 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
The only thing that can really prove a planet is a picture.
And that hasn't happened.

Regards
JWD

You know, JW, as a former "supporter" it is really refreshing to hear you say this. It's exactly what we've been trying to tell her current followers for years! They can make claims that geologic and meteorologic events on Earth are the result of "Planet X" all they want. But, until they have a good, quality image of this "planet" all they have are claims. And considering this "planet" has been hanging out by the sun for over six years, getting a photo of it wouldn't be difficult.
 Quoting: Circuit Breaker


Through the 6 months we were imaging the co-ordinates in 2002/2003, I would have loved to have caught something definitive on film. (other than an asteroid)
It didn't happen.

In fact, as we got closer to May 2003, the images provided less evidence, which was opposite to what would be expected, should a planet be moving closer to earth.

It really was noise. And with 3 people looking over the images, it still boiled down to Nancy Leider picking her choice. (I picked wrong a few times). The "pick" was always that which was closest to the projected trajectory.

Working with video in low light, and the "noise" encountered when doing so, brought it home to me that back then we were chasing noise artifacts.

Live and learn, and sometimes we learn late ;o)

I've seen a number of these recent so-called PX photos taken "around the sun", including Lasco. It ain't there!

From here on I want to see the pictures before I accept the bunk.

Regards
JWD
***ZetaMax***

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09/20/2009 02:30 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
So you agree that consciousness exists at the "micro" level, and you agree that consicousness "probably" exists at the "ultra" **MACRO** level in the sense that there is a "universal" consicousness. However, I suppose you would assert that such a "universal" consciousness has no sense of "self", and therefore is quite "incapable" ordering the universe beyond the individual human's level of intelligence - and that we are the "summit" of consicousness's universal expression???


Guess thats describes it pretty well ... though my english might not be good enough to get it 100% ... but yes, I think the universal concioussness has no sense of self, while Christians claim it (god) has a sense of self, at least thats how I get what Christians say.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 775357


Understood. (But) ... isn't it a little "presumputuous", even perhaps a bit "arrogant" to "assume" that there is no "higher" gestalt of individualized consciousness "just because" **we** don't see (or directly sense) it???

Imagine an amoeba thinking that there are no "humans" because it lacks the sensory capacity to "sense" one the way we - or maybe even our pets - do.

It would "of course" be mistaken. Imagine it conversing with fellow amoeba's saying "If there were humans, why don't they show themselves???"

Last Edited by ***ZetaMaX*** on 09/20/2009 02:31 PM
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
Menow
User ID: 405501
United States
09/20/2009 02:39 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
It is so easy to call someone a communist.
And let me tell you that when it's not misused and when there are no negative influences there is nothing bad about it.
The supression of thinking that was done by Stalin and the like is not something that can be called communism or socialism.
 Quoting: Gerard


Well, Gerard... are you going to leave those two sky charts on your site and claim they are from one hour apart when they are clearly the exact SAME chart?
Menow
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09/20/2009 02:41 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
So you agree that consciousness exists at the "micro" level, and you agree that consicousness "probably" exists at the "ultra" **MACRO** level in the sense that there is a "universal" consicousness. However, I suppose you would assert that such a "universal" consciousness has no sense of "self", and therefore is quite "incapable" ordering the universe beyond the individual human's level of intelligence - and that we are the "summit" of consicousness's universal expression???


Guess thats describes it pretty well ... though my english might not be good enough to get it 100% ... but yes, I think the universal concioussness has no sense of self, while Christians claim it (god) has a sense of self, at least thats how I get what Christians say.


Understood. (But) ... isn't it a little "presumputuous", even perhaps a bit "arrogant" to "assume" that there is no "higher" gestalt of individualized consciousness "just because" **we** don't see (or directly sense) it???

Imagine an amoeba thinking that there are no "humans" because it lacks the sensory capacity to "sense" one the way we - or maybe even our pets - do.

It would "of course" be mistaken. Imagine it conversing with fellow amoeba's saying "If there were humans, why don't they show themselves???"
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***


I have nothing against a good discussion about spirituality/consciousness/metphysics/etc, but let's not pretend that Zetatalk has any corner on the truth of these matters.
Menow
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09/20/2009 03:48 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
what, in truth, is cult-minded? i'll tell you - those who take academic science, the whole immense architecture of canonic approved scientific beliefs - that's cult-mind.



You dislike science because you are too stupid to understand it.



i intended to write:

"those who take academic science, the whole immense architecture of canonic approved scientific beliefs, without critical thinking - that's cult-mind."
 Quoting: andrew


Come on, Andrew... you had the NERVE to bring up "critical thinking". Let's see you APPLY some of that to Nancy's astronomical claims. Go right ahead. We are waiting.
Gerard

User ID: 334168
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09/20/2009 03:56 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Well, Gerard... are you going to leave those two sky charts on your site and claim they are from one hour apart when they are clearly the exact SAME chart?
 Quoting: Menow 405501


Sigh. Menow or should i say howmo. I checked it and they are different charts, one is from 11:00pm dutch time and the other one 11:59pm dutch time.

And this is the last time that i am going to answer this question.
Anonymous Coward
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09/20/2009 04:19 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
It is so easy to call someone a communist.
And let me tell you that when it's not misused and when there are no negative influences there is nothing bad about it.
The supression of thinking that was done by Stalin and the like is not something that can be called communism or socialism.
 Quoting: Gerard


So you are ready to give up ALL your private property, because thats what communism is all about. You have never read Marx I guess ?
Anonymous Coward
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09/20/2009 04:21 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Here, a Zetard threat the life of Menow:

And what kind of answer should she gave.
Let me tell you that during the dutch Dutch famine of 1944 also called the hongerwinter in Dutch (hunger winter), dogs and cats where eaten because. Now what if your family is starving and there is no other food source then your dog or cat. Then what would you do. It's a difficult question i know, especialy for those who love animals.


That is NOT the issue, Gerard. The issue is that Nancy/"Zetas" told people that they should kill their pets BEFORE THE POLESHIFT which they said would happen in 2003!!!
Was that good advice??? By the way, "Zetas" also told people that they should have themselves "fixed" before the poleshift, which they said was going to happen in 2003!!!
Was THAT good advice???

Idiot!

Why do you argue about this shit so hotly? What a waste of energy. Nancy is a hoaxer.


And yet you are taking the time to read, here, and reply negatively to my post, complaining about what I have said??

Heh.


I have a secret to share with you Menow, and that secret is that you're WRONG! In your face!! By the way, your agency won't protect you like they said they would. What a sad way to end your life.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 767101


AC 767101 is promising to kill posters !!!!
Menow
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09/20/2009 04:25 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Well, Gerard... are you going to leave those two sky charts on your site and claim they are from one hour apart when they are clearly the exact SAME chart?


Sigh. Menow or should i say howmo. I checked it and they are different charts, one is from 11:00pm dutch time and the other one 11:59pm dutch time.

And this is the last time that i am going to answer this question.
 Quoting: Gerard


You can deny all you want and refuse to address your own errors(again) but the position of the stars is the SAME in both images when almost 15 degrees of sky rotation should have occurred between the two times. Show the link again. I DARE you.
Menow
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09/20/2009 04:30 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Well, Gerard... are you going to leave those two sky charts on your site and claim they are from one hour apart when they are clearly the exact SAME chart?


Sigh. Menow or should i say howmo. I checked it and they are different charts, one is from 11:00pm dutch time and the other one 11:59pm dutch time.

And this is the last time that i am going to answer this question.
 Quoting: Gerard


By the way, you little pissant, I had to repeatedly post about how your charts were wrong before you admitted it last time, and now you have the NERVE to act as if you have been straightforward in responses up to now and are put out by having to repeat yourself?? Your stupid, meaningless charts, with which you ATTEMPT to imply that you have the slightest notion of how things in the sky move, are STILL WRONG!

Jerkwad.
Anonymous Coward
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09/20/2009 04:31 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
It is so easy to call someone a communist.
And let me tell you that when it's not misused and when there are no negative influences there is nothing bad about it.
The supression of thinking that was done by Stalin and the like is not something that can be called communism or socialism.


So you are ready to give up ALL your private property, because thats what communism is all about. You have never read Marx I guess ?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 775357


Property is theft.
Anonymous Coward
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09/20/2009 04:31 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Understood. (But) ... isn't it a little "presumputuous", even perhaps a bit "arrogant" to "assume" that there is no "higher" gestalt of individualized consciousness "just because" **we** don't see (or directly sense) it???

Imagine an amoeba thinking that there are no "humans" because it lacks the sensory capacity to "sense" one the way we - or maybe even our pets - do.

It would "of course" be mistaken. Imagine it conversing with fellow amoeba's saying "If there were humans, why don't they show themselves???"
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***


Oh, I certainly think there are councioussness evolved much higher than we are, out there in the universe .... what I meant is that I dont think there is ONE biggy god that rules all in concioussness in the whole universe, which is basically how the bible is interpreted. Although I think the bible is interpreted wrong often, many of the experiences discribed there are very similar to what is experienced on mind altering drugs. And in old frescos Mushrooms are often seen ... thats a very interesting story to research btw, the connection of old scripts and myths with mind altering drugs.
Anonymous Coward
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09/20/2009 04:32 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Property is theft.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 775629


I see you are very stupid. What would you say if the communist police will come right now and kick you out of your flat, taking all your property.
Menow
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09/20/2009 04:33 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Here, a Zetard threat the life of Menow:






And what kind of answer should she gave.
Let me tell you that during the dutch Dutch famine of 1944 also called the hongerwinter in Dutch (hunger winter), dogs and cats where eaten because. Now what if your family is starving and there is no other food source then your dog or cat. Then what would you do. It's a difficult question i know, especialy for those who love animals.


That is NOT the issue, Gerard. The issue is that Nancy/"Zetas" told people that they should kill their pets BEFORE THE POLESHIFT which they said would happen in 2003!!!
Was that good advice??? By the way, "Zetas" also told people that they should have themselves "fixed" before the poleshift, which they said was going to happen in 2003!!!
Was THAT good advice???

Idiot!

Why do you argue about this shit so hotly? What a waste of energy. Nancy is a hoaxer.


And yet you are taking the time to read, here, and reply negatively to my post, complaining about what I have said??

Heh.


I have a secret to share with you Menow, and that secret is that you're WRONG! In your face!! By the way, your agency won't protect you like they said they would. What a sad way to end your life.


AC 767101 is promising to kill posters !!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 775357


Nah. It's just another empty-headed idiot.
Menow
User ID: 405501
United States
09/20/2009 04:40 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Well, Gerard... are you going to leave those two sky charts on your site and claim they are from one hour apart when they are clearly the exact SAME chart?


Sigh. Menow or should i say howmo. I checked it and they are different charts, one is from 11:00pm dutch time and the other one 11:59pm dutch time.

And this is the last time that i am going to answer this question.
 Quoting: Gerard


Here's your page with your two charts, you insipid little twit!

[link to poleshift.ning.com]

Both charts show the stars in the exact SAME positions.

Idiot!
***ZetaMax***

User ID: 774680
United States
09/20/2009 04:44 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Understood. (But) ... isn't it a little "presumputuous", even perhaps a bit "arrogant" to "assume" that there is no "higher" gestalt of individualized consciousness "just because" **we** don't see (or directly sense) it???

Imagine an amoeba thinking that there are no "humans" because it lacks the sensory capacity to "sense" one the way we - or maybe even our pets - do.

It would "of course" be mistaken. Imagine it conversing with fellow amoeba's saying "If there were humans, why don't they show themselves???"


Oh, I certainly think there are councioussness evolved much higher than we are, out there in the universe .... what I meant is that I dont think there is ONE biggy god that rules all in concioussness in the whole universe, which is basically how the bible is interpreted. Although I think the bible is interpreted wrong often, many of the experiences discribed there are very similar to what is experienced on mind altering drugs. And in old frescos Mushrooms are often seen ... thats a very interesting story to research btw, the connection of old scripts and myths with mind altering drugs.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 775357


Well - I certainly don't think there's a (as in 'one') "GOD" out there who counts the hairs on your head, and obsesses over your every act and deed. But - if indeed you do think there are consciousnesses evolved "much" higher than we are ... "out there in the universe" ---> are they "incarnate" beings with limited life spans, or might some have "energetic" and hence "eternal" or "unlimited" (in the sense of no "limit" we would "understand" readily) ""life""???

Last Edited by ***ZetaMaX*** on 09/20/2009 04:45 PM
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
Anonymous Coward
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09/20/2009 04:53 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Well - I certainly don't think there's a (as in 'one') "GOD" out there who counts the hairs on your head, and obsesses over your every act and deed. But - if indeed you do think there are consciousnesses evolved "much" higher than we are ... "out there in the universe" ---> are they "incarnate" beings with limited life spans, or might some have "energetic" and hence "eternal" or "unlimited" (in the sense of no "limit" we would "understand" readily) ""life""???
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***


Dunno really ... my guess is there are concioussness that live as long as we would think "infinite" would be, maybe living in a time continium we cant really get ... like the concioussness of trees for example, which is probably experiencing time in another way than we do ... with insects on the other side, which I believe experience time much "faster" than we do ... and who knows whats out there and how they experience time ... I think the experience of time is very different from species to species, no matter if material or "etheral" concioussness.
***ZetaMax***

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09/20/2009 05:07 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Well - I certainly don't think there's a (as in 'one') "GOD" out there who counts the hairs on your head, and obsesses over your every act and deed. But - if indeed you do think there are consciousnesses evolved "much" higher than we are ... "out there in the universe" ---> are they "incarnate" beings with limited life spans, or might some have "energetic" and hence "eternal" or "unlimited" (in the sense of no "limit" we would "understand" readily) ""life""???


Dunno really ... my guess is there are concioussness that live as long as we would think "infinite" would be, maybe living in a time continium we cant really get ... like the concioussness of trees for example, which is probably experiencing time in another way than we do ... with insects on the other side, which I believe experience time much "faster" than we do ... and who knows whats out there and how they experience time ... I think the experience of time is very different from species to species, no matter if material or "etheral" concioussness.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 775357


You've heard of "microbes". Is it inconceivable that there might be "MAC-robes"??? We are "consuming" creatures - we eat other carbon based life forms (animals and plants) in order to grow and sustain our bodies that temporarily house our consciousness. Could it be there are "creatures" in other "dimensions" that also "feed" off of "lower life forms"??? "Demons" are a staple element of EVERY culture on the planet. Every culture has their "mythology".

Is it ****ALL**** just silly "superstition", or might there actually be something to it???
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
Anonymous Coward
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09/20/2009 05:12 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
You've heard of "microbes". Is it inconceivable that there might be "MAC-robes"??? We are "consuming" creatures - we eat other carbon based life forms (animals and plants) in order to grow and sustain our bodies that temporarily house our consciousness. Could it be there are "creatures" in other "dimensions" that also "feed" off of "lower life forms"??? "Demons" are a staple element of EVERY culture on the planet. Every culture has their "mythology".

Is it ****ALL**** just silly "superstition", or might there actually be something to it???
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***


Oh yes ... I totally think that there are "etheral" lifeforms feeding on the human concioussness ... all the time they do. They influenze us in a way to have negative energy outbursts and feed from them. these lifeforms have been described in the Upanishades, Carlos castaneda described them, south american shamans describe them, Krishnamurti too if I am not wrong. They are in our concioussness field all the time and I know nobody in person who is free of them all the time ... I am not free of their influence, thats sure and all other people I know have these outbursts too, some often, some less often.
Anonymous Coward
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09/20/2009 05:13 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Oh yes ... I totally think that there are "etheral" lifeforms feeding on the human concioussness ... all the time they do. They influenze us in a way to have negative energy outbursts and feed from them. these lifeforms have been described in the Upanishades, Carlos castaneda described them, south american shamans describe them, Krishnamurti too if I am not wrong. They are in our concioussness field all the time and I know nobody in person who is free of them all the time ... I am not free of their influence, thats sure and all other people I know have these outbursts too, some often, some less often.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 775357


PS:
I think they are the reason that after negative energy outbursts you feel exhausted.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 334168
Netherlands
09/20/2009 05:17 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Well, Gerard... are you going to leave those two sky charts on your site and claim they are from one hour apart when they are clearly the exact SAME chart?


Sigh. Menow or should i say howmo. I checked it and they are different charts, one is from 11:00pm dutch time and the other one 11:59pm dutch time.

And this is the last time that i am going to answer this question.


Here's your page with your two charts, you insipid little twit!

[link to poleshift.ning.com]

Both charts show the stars in the exact SAME positions.

Idiot!
 Quoting: Menow 405501


Cause there is no change in position. And these charts are from the heavens-above.com site.
But then again i remember your behaviour and you'r as obnoxious now as you where some years ago.
***ZetaMax***

User ID: 774680
United States
09/20/2009 05:23 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Oh yes ... I totally think that there are "etheral" lifeforms feeding on the human concioussness ... all the time they do. They influenze us in a way to have negative energy outbursts and feed from them. these lifeforms have been described in the Upanishades, Carlos castaneda described them, south american shamans describe them, Krishnamurti too if I am not wrong. They are in our concioussness field all the time and I know nobody in person who is free of them all the time ... I am not free of their influence, thats sure and all other people I know have these outbursts too, some often, some less often.


PS:
I think they are the reason that after negative energy outbursts you feel exhausted.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 775357


I agree with your observations - and am quite familiar with Castenada and other literature in the same genre. Now, Castenada counseled that such beings should be avoided, and resisted when avoidance is not possible. He counseled that people should avoid old Mexican and South American archeological sites such as the "Temple of the Sun" in Mexico as these sites are essentially "epicenters" of dark spiritual energy. NEVER pick up and carry away any carved object for instance, for it is likely a talisman of some sort, that will bring ill winds (luck) in the majority of cases. By carrying off the object, you are in a sense, giving your consent to co-mingle your energy with it - not an "informed" consent in the majority of cases!!

Since these "entities" are after "life energy", under what circumstances do you think they would grant "favors" and in exchange for "what"???
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 775357
Germany
09/20/2009 05:34 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I agree with your observations - and am quite familiar with Castenada and other literature in the same genre. Now, Castenada counseled that such beings should be avoided, and resisted when avoidance is not possible. He counseled that people should avoid old Mexican and South American archeological sites such as the "Temple of the Sun" in Mexico as these sites are essentially "epicenters" of dark spiritual energy. NEVER pick up and carry away any carved object for instance, for it is likely a talisman of some sort, that will bring ill winds (luck) in the majority of cases. By carrying off the object, you are in a sense, giving your consent to co-mingle your energy with it - not an "informed" consent in the majority of cases!!

Since these "entities" are after "life energy", under what circumstances do you think they would grant "favors" and in exchange for "what"???
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***



I am not even sure if they grant favors one would really want. Its kind of a pact you have to do with them during dreaming if we use Castanedas approach. My knowledge is not enough to answer this very good. In his last book (The Active Side of Infinity (1998)) he described another inorganic lifeforms, not exactly the ones he described in his former books. He called them flyers or mud shadows. these ones dont "ask" you for a pact, like the ones described in former books.

[link to parallelperception.blogspot.com]

[link to www.metahistory.org]

Qoute:
"We have a predator that came from the depths of the cosmos and took over the rule of our lives. Human beings are its prisoners. The predator is our lord and master. It has rendered us docile, helpless. If we want to protest, it suppresses our protest. If we want to act independently, it demands that we don’t do so...
Sorcerers believe that the predators have given us our systems of beliefs, our ideas of good and evil, our social mores. They are the ones who set up our hopes and expectations and dreams of success or failure. They have given us covetousness, greed and cowardice. It is the predators who make us complacent, routinary and egomaniacal. "
The Lone Ranger (OP)

User ID: 648236
New Zealand
09/20/2009 05:37 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Did you see where somebody brought up "Zetas" old magnitude prediction? That is one of the most clear-cut failed astronomical predictions. She ridiculed the question and refused to have "Zetas" answer it. Heh! I couldn't resist posting a response to that on her thread. Even though Nancy claims that PX was found at her coords, she CAN'T claim that it was imaged at mag 10-11 as "Zetas" predicted. It has alwasy been a thorn in her side. That's why there was no real response to the question again this week.
 Quoting: Menow 405501


Well I guess, Menow, that after six plus years of continual failures that Ms LIEDer has lost her ability to be so adamant in claiming such things as her rogue planet being imaged leading up to her May 2003 debacle. And with J.William Dell being present among us at GLP it must make Nancy's head spin. His testimony proves that all that was imaged was "noise". Enough said I guess. And yes I read your posting/s about the difference between mag 10-11 and mag 18, where mag 10-11 is a thousand or so times brighter than mag 18, which makes Nancy's willingness to hold on to such false claims laughable at best.

PS: I remember all the fuss Nancy made back then about getting people to go look in the night sky for that definitely noticeable blinking red light that was evidence of her giant rogue planet approaching our inner Solar System. Well I thought I would go look for myself exactly where she stated it would be seen in the night sky. I did this over several weeks and surprise surprise there was nothing there. Lol although Nancy and a select few lol4me reported seeing the blinking red point of light just beautifully.

Last Edited by The Lone Ranger on 09/20/2009 05:39 PM
Life Is But A Dream!!
Therefore, "'Tis better to have dreamed and lost than never to have dreamed at all."
------------------------------------
Disclaimer:

DON'T​ BELIEVE A DAMN WORD YOU READ ON THIS THREAD!....USE DISCERNMENT!!
The Lone Ranger (OP)

User ID: 648236
New Zealand
09/20/2009 05:47 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Cause there is no change in position. And these charts are from the heavens-above.com site.
But then again i remember your behaviour and you'r as obnoxious now as you where some years ago.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 334168


Well the fact of the matter is that, Menow, knows his stuff ok. Menow has been around GLP for awhile now and from what I've observed has blown apart every astronomical falsehood that the bunker believers and Ms LIEDer have ever tried to pass off as being real knowledge and true facts.

I know it pains the bunkers and Ms LIEDer so much to be confronted with posters, like Menow, who can actually successfully debunk the zetacrap claims.....but hey that's life Jim!!

DebasRA

Last Edited by The Lone Ranger on 09/20/2009 05:48 PM
Life Is But A Dream!!
Therefore, "'Tis better to have dreamed and lost than never to have dreamed at all."
------------------------------------
Disclaimer:

DON'T​ BELIEVE A DAMN WORD YOU READ ON THIS THREAD!....USE DISCERNMENT!!
The Lone Ranger (OP)

User ID: 648236
New Zealand
09/20/2009 05:50 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Is it ****ALL**** just silly "superstition", or might there actually be something to it???
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***


Well yes you may well be a sockpuppet for the zetacult there Melfster!!

:Ha:
Life Is But A Dream!!
Therefore, "'Tis better to have dreamed and lost than never to have dreamed at all."
------------------------------------
Disclaimer:

DON'T​ BELIEVE A DAMN WORD YOU READ ON THIS THREAD!....USE DISCERNMENT!!
***ZetaMax***

User ID: 774680
United States
09/20/2009 05:54 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I agree with your observations - and am quite familiar with Castenada and other literature in the same genre. Now, Castenada counseled that such beings should be avoided, and resisted when avoidance is not possible. He counseled that people should avoid old Mexican and South American archeological sites such as the "Temple of the Sun" in Mexico as these sites are essentially "epicenters" of dark spiritual energy. NEVER pick up and carry away any carved object for instance, for it is likely a talisman of some sort, that will bring ill winds (luck) in the majority of cases. By carrying off the object, you are in a sense, giving your consent to co-mingle your energy with it - not an "informed" consent in the majority of cases!!

Since these "entities" are after "life energy", under what circumstances do you think they would grant "favors" and in exchange for "what"???



I am not even sure if they grant favors one would really want. Its kind of a pact you have to do with them during dreaming if we use Castanedas approach. My knowledge is not enough to answer this very good. In his last book (The Active Side of Infinity (1998)) he described another inorganic lifeforms, not exactly the ones he described in his former books. He called them flyers or mud shadows. these ones dont "ask" you for a pact, like the ones described in former books.

[link to parallelperception.blogspot.com]

[link to www.metahistory.org]

Qoute:
"We have a predator that came from the depths of the cosmos and took over the rule of our lives. Human beings are its prisoners. The predator is our lord and master. It has rendered us docile, helpless. If we want to protest, it suppresses our protest. If we want to act independently, it demands that we don’t do so...
Sorcerers believe that the predators have given us our systems of beliefs, our ideas of good and evil, our social mores. They are the ones who set up our hopes and expectations and dreams of success or failure. They have given us covetousness, greed and cowardice. It is the predators who make us complacent, routinary and egomaniacal. "
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 775357


>> They have given us covetousness, greed and cowardice. It is the predators who make us complacent, routinary and egomaniacal.

Indeed. And they are quite good at "harvesting" such emotions and energy. But if they are "intelligent" beings, then they will try to do two things - the same two things we do as well: satisfy todays "needs", and make whatever possible "arrangements" they can to provide for "tomorrow's" needs as well. In order to provide for our daily and future needs, most people who are not wealthy, have to make a "pact" with an "employer". Now, if an inidividual human being, possesses the "ability" to provide MORE energy to these beings than just his/her own "personal" energy - in other words, they can act as "agents" of these entities and assist them in acquiring the "energy" of others, performing deeds in the physcial world these entities, due to their discarnate limitations, cannot otherwise perform. Do you think they would "grant favors" to such individuals (assuming they can)???
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax

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