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Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!

 
***ZetaMaX***

User ID: 55301072
United States
03/08/2014 08:43 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
You'll get better than that.

 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


Really?

WHEN?

And you say it with such certainty. Amusing.
 Quoting: 74444


Don't have a date. Could be months away, years away or even decades away.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


Or Never.

You always leave out that possibility. Why?
 Quoting: 74444


Cause I think the historical evidence for its existence when weighed against the inability of our scientific community to convincingly demonstrate its non-existence (in spite of copius - in fact I would say desperate - "cheerleading") makes a COMPELLING argument that it's REAL.

For me the only question of any significance that remains is WHEN.

When it comes to an answer for THAT question, I am just as big a VICTIM of disinformation - and Nancy's shenanigans - as anyone.

Not that it matters - because bottom line is, no one really wants to know ANYWAY. I do, but I figured out quite awhile back that I am in the EXTREME minority.

Why would I want to know?

Don't know really. I bore easily. Quess I also don't like "surprises". Especially the "end of civilization" type. I don't really fear death, and I don't have a "lot" of love for humanity, so thinking about it's possible demise doesn't "bother" me like it does most folks. I don't "hate" humanity - but the thought of it's possible destruction and extinction just doesn't "panic" me like it does others. Doesn't "excite" me either - I'm mostly indifferent (more like resigned), but given a choice, I WOULD choose it's survival. And if I could somehow spare humanity this ordeal I WOULD. In a heartbeat. "Indifference" (or detached resignation to an unpleasant fate) is not sadism. I don't "enjoy" witnessing the suffering of others. Quite the contrary - especially since I am just as likely to "suffer" as they are.

But of course - I CAN'T prevent this thing "if" it's coming. (there's your bone)

Call me "crazy" ...

Last Edited by ***ZetaMaX*** on 03/08/2014 09:42 PM
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
***ZetaMaX***

User ID: 55301072
United States
03/08/2014 09:24 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Oh I could tell you - give me unfettered access to the South Pole Telescope, Hubble, the Mars Orbiters and rovers, The Vatican Library with a hand picked (by me) team of experts from multiple disciplines and a couple of years to comb through everything. If **I** find that nothing validates the existence of Nibiru, then I would CONCEDE.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


Yet have you worked to *get* any of this? Have you written to the Vatican? Asked around to any experts at all? Put together exactly what data from Hubble you'd accept? What behavior from the Mars Orbiters or rovers (???) would be positive evidence for Nibiru?

Of course you haven't.

You aren't interested in the facts, you're not interested in an answer -- you're interested in *keeping the argument going.*

Just like a good attorney should.

You aren't looking for facts, ZM. Your objective is, obviously, something quite different.

I wonder what?
 Quoting: 74444


LOL! No one is allowed to just "wander" the Vatican Archives. I doubt even the Pope is allowed to do that!
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


How do you know? Have you tried? And what about the other suggestions I made? Write any experts you *would* believe? Ever run an experiment of any kind yourself that would force you to abandon the Nibiru idea? Come up with exactly how it could be done?

Face it -- you've done *none* of this. Why? You've ASSumed that anyone who disagrees with the Nibiru idea must be lying or concealing the truth simply because *that is what you want to believe.* And setting the evidentiary bar so ridiculously high to prove otherwise to you is a clear indication that you are not on the fence, whatsoever. You want to make sure that the Nibiru idea *cannot* be disproved to you in any practicable way. It's so far beyond a reasonable doubt it's absurd. It is, demonstrably, an irrational *belief.*

So, what is your true objective, ZM? It seems to me it is merely to keep the argument going.
 Quoting: 74444


>> You want to make sure that the Nibiru idea *cannot* be disproved to you in any practicable way.

True - in a way. But really more the inverse. I don't "think" anyone can disprove it, but I would be VERY grateful to anyone who could. So I am continuing to give you guys EVERY OPPORTUNITY to succeed. Which is why I keep stubbornly returning to this thread.

The two dudes most responsible for my "dilemma"?

Velikovsky and Sitchen.

Damn them both!

>> It is, demonstrably, an irrational *belief.*

PLEASE! By ALL means! DEMONSTRATE!!!

Last Edited by ***ZetaMaX*** on 03/08/2014 09:40 PM
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
Halcyon Dayz, FCD

User ID: 37781229
Netherlands
03/08/2014 09:46 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
>> It is, demonstrably, an irrational *belief.*

PLEASE! By ALL means! DEMONSTRATE!!!
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***

Have you already forgotten what you have posted here?
book
Reaching for the sky makes you taller.

Hi! My name is Halcyon Dayz and I'm addicted to morans.
Wispa
User ID: 11082599
United Kingdom
03/08/2014 09:50 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
You'll get better than that.

 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


Really?

WHEN?

And you say it with such certainty. Amusing.
 Quoting: 74444


Don't have a date. Could be months away, years away or even decades away.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


So, you live your life in wonderment and speculation, I also get a vibe you live in fear.
We are not on this Earth for long, just enjoy the time you have.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 11082599
United Kingdom
03/08/2014 09:52 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
>> It is, demonstrably, an irrational *belief.*

PLEASE! By ALL means! DEMONSTRATE!!!
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***

Have you already forgotten what you have posted here?
book
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD


Memory loss, it happens to the best ... ermm ...
***ZetaMaX***

User ID: 55301072
United States
03/08/2014 09:57 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
You'll get better than that.

 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


Really?

WHEN?

And you say it with such certainty. Amusing.
 Quoting: 74444


Don't have a date. Could be months away, years away or even decades away.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


So, you live your life in wonderment and speculation, I also get a vibe you live in fear.
We are not on this Earth for long, just enjoy the time you have.
 Quoting: Wispa 11082599


>> We are not on this Earth for long, just enjoy the time you have.

True enough - and I do my best to live by that mantra.

But - just like in the movie the "Matrix" - once you swallow the "red pill", there's no going back to "blissful ignorance".

>> I also get a vibe you live in fear

A bit of "dread" - sure. Like going to the dentist for a root canal. NO ONE looks forward to that, but we do it anyway.

However, I am one of the few people I know who cannot be "frightened" into suppressing an unpleasant "idea".

Oh how I wish it were otherwise at times!

Last Edited by ***ZetaMaX*** on 03/08/2014 10:02 PM
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
Wispa

User ID: 11082599
United Kingdom
03/08/2014 10:05 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
...


Really?

WHEN?

And you say it with such certainty. Amusing.
 Quoting: 74444


Don't have a date. Could be months away, years away or even decades away.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


So, you live your life in wonderment and speculation, I also get a vibe you live in fear.
We are not on this Earth for long, just enjoy the time you have.
 Quoting: Wispa 11082599


>> We are not on this Earth for long, just enjoy the time you have.

True enough - and I do my best to live by that mantra.

But - just like in the movie the "Matrix" - once you swallow the "red pill", there's no going back to "blissful ignorance".

>> I also get a vibe you live in fear

A bit of "dread" - sure. Like going to the dentist for a root canal. NO ONE looks forward to that, but we do it anyway.

However, I am one of the few people I know who cannot be "frightened" into suppressing an unpleasant "idea".

Oh how I wish it were otherwise at times!
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


So, you have swallowed the red pill, now what ? how old are you ? ... that can be rhetoric if you like but consider how long you have left on this Earth. Is the worry and dedication to an unknown worth it ?
74444

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United States
03/08/2014 10:09 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
>> You want to make sure that the Nibiru idea *cannot* be disproved to you in any practicable way.

True - in a way. But really more the inverse. I don't "think" anyone can disprove it, but I would be VERY grateful to anyone who could.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


But you can't even *imagine* any way to do it -- excepting a ridiculous set that no one could possibly accomplish, which you then don't even pursue yourself *anyway.*

It's like preparing to play a football game but keeping the location of the goal line strictly to yourself.

The predictability of the stars' motions won't do it.
The predictability of the planets' motions won't do it.
The study that indicates nothing is within 20,000 plus A.U.s won't do it.
The words of professional and amateur astronomers alike won't do it.
The utter violation of basic physical laws that haven't failed a test won't do it.
The repeated failed predictions of the Nibiru proponents won't do it.
No experiment.
No observation.
Nothing.

If you cannot *imagine* any piece of evidence ever disproving the idea, it cannot be disproved. QED.

And the *furthest* you look for said contrary evidence is some people posting on a conspiracy board!

Come to think of it, why haven't you set the bar so high for the *believers* in Nibiru? You get on my case when all I demand is an RA and Declination! Look at what *you* demand!


>> It is, demonstrably, an irrational *belief.*

PLEASE! By ALL means! DEMONSTRATE!!!
 Quoting: ***Zetamax***


Just did. You cannot provide a rational way by which you can doubt the Nibiru legend, despite heaps of evidence against it. Every Newtonian law, every time you drop an object it disproves Nibiru as described. The best sky surveys around have failed to find any object remotely resembling Nibiru as described. No physical evidence. You twist ancient texts into some kind of support, dismissing that the ancients might be just as prone to storytelling as we are today. Surely *all* ancient stories must be completely factual.

You dismiss any contrary evidence completely out of hand, without looking into it yourself. Irrational, by definition.

Last Edited by 74444 on 03/08/2014 10:15 PM
***ZetaMaX***

User ID: 55301072
United States
03/08/2014 10:12 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
...


Don't have a date. Could be months away, years away or even decades away.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


So, you live your life in wonderment and speculation, I also get a vibe you live in fear.
We are not on this Earth for long, just enjoy the time you have.
 Quoting: Wispa 11082599


>> We are not on this Earth for long, just enjoy the time you have.

True enough - and I do my best to live by that mantra.

But - just like in the movie the "Matrix" - once you swallow the "red pill", there's no going back to "blissful ignorance".

>> I also get a vibe you live in fear

A bit of "dread" - sure. Like going to the dentist for a root canal. NO ONE looks forward to that, but we do it anyway.

However, I am one of the few people I know who cannot be "frightened" into suppressing an unpleasant "idea".

Oh how I wish it were otherwise at times!
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


So, you have swallowed the red pill, now what ? how old are you ? ... that can be rhetoric if you like but consider how long you have left on this Earth. Is the worry and dedication to an unknown worth it ?
 Quoting: Wispa


Past 50.

>> Is the worry and dedication to an unknown worth it?

I'm not all that "worried" really. Which is precisely why I can talk about it so easily, and why I talk about it here, and not so much anywhere else. I don't like seeing the wide eyed terror in people's eyes when they contemplate the possibilities of this thing - and I have seen it. Thankfully they boomerang to denial at light speed - and live there happily.

Sometimes - I'm even JEALOUS of how easily they do it.
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
***ZetaMaX***

User ID: 55301072
United States
03/08/2014 10:14 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
>> You want to make sure that the Nibiru idea *cannot* be disproved to you in any practicable way.

True - in a way. But really more the inverse. I don't "think" anyone can disprove it, but I would be VERY grateful to anyone who could.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


But you can't even *imagine* any way to do it -- excepting a ridiculous set that no one could possibly accomplish, which you then don't even pursue yourself *anyway.*

It's like preparing to play a football game but keeping the location of the goal line strictly to yourself.

The predictability of the stars' motions won't do it.
The predictability of the planets' motions won't do it.
The study that indicates nothing is within 20,000 plus A.U.s won't do it.
The words of professional and amateur astronomers alike won't do it.
The utter violation of basic physical laws that haven't failed a test won't do it.
The repeated failed predictions won't do it.
No experiment.
No observation.
Nothing.

If you cannot *imagine* any piece of evidence ever disproving the idea, it cannot be disproved. QED.

And the *furthest* you look for said contrary evidence is some people posting on a conspiracy board!

Come to think of it, why haven't you set the bar so high for the *believers* in Nibiru? You get on my case when all I demand is an RA and Declination! Look at what *you* demand!


>> It is, demonstrably, an irrational *belief.*

PLEASE! By ALL means! DEMONSTRATE!!!
 Quoting: ***Zetamax***


Just did. You cannot provide a rational way by which you can doubt the Nibiru legend, despite heaps of evidence against it. Every Newtonian law, every time you drop an object it disproves Nibiru as described. The best sky surveys around have failed to find any object remotely resembling Nibiru as described. No physical evidence. You twist ancient texts into some kind of support, dismissing that the ancients might be just as prone to storytelling as we are today. Surely *all* ancient stories must be completely factual.

You dismiss any contrary evidence completely out of hand, without looking into it yourself. Irrational, by definition.
 Quoting: 74444


>> But you can't even *imagine* any way to do it

True and not true. Not true in the sense that IF I could get unrestrained access to the Vatican, Mars rovers, etc., THAT would satisfy me.

But that's IMPOSSIBLE - and we BOTH know it.

So it's back to "TRUE" - I can't indeed "imagine" a way to otherwise do it.

But that is precisely my dilemma!! "Imagination" is a form of insight. It's pretty much impossible to "imagine" something that someone cannot first "comprehend". And right now I don't COMPREHEND how anything short of full unfiltered access to the same data the elites of this world have access to, will do it.

Last Edited by ***ZetaMaX*** on 03/08/2014 10:22 PM
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
Wispa

User ID: 11082599
United Kingdom
03/08/2014 10:19 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
...


So, you live your life in wonderment and speculation, I also get a vibe you live in fear.
We are not on this Earth for long, just enjoy the time you have.
 Quoting: Wispa 11082599


>> We are not on this Earth for long, just enjoy the time you have.

True enough - and I do my best to live by that mantra.

But - just like in the movie the "Matrix" - once you swallow the "red pill", there's no going back to "blissful ignorance".

>> I also get a vibe you live in fear

A bit of "dread" - sure. Like going to the dentist for a root canal. NO ONE looks forward to that, but we do it anyway.

However, I am one of the few people I know who cannot be "frightened" into suppressing an unpleasant "idea".

Oh how I wish it were otherwise at times!
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


So, you have swallowed the red pill, now what ? how old are you ? ... that can be rhetoric if you like but consider how long you have left on this Earth. Is the worry and dedication to an unknown worth it ?
 Quoting: Wispa


Past 50.

>> Is the worry and dedication to an unknown worth it?

I'm not all that "worried" really. Which is precisely why I can talk about it so easily, and why I talk about it here, and not so much anywhere else. I don't like seeing the wide eyed terror in people's eyes when they contemplate the possibilities of this thing - and I have seen it. Thankfully they boomerang to denial at light speed - and live there happily.

Sometimes - I'm even JEALOUS of how easily they do it.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


The wide eyed terror in peoples eyes ? how many people do you know Max, that have mentioned Nibiru to that looked scared at the mention of it ? how many people have you scared by mentioning it ?

You have seen it ? I will call you a blatent liar for that statement Max.
Perhaps you are not lying and are just delusional enough to believe what you type.
***ZetaMaX***

User ID: 55301072
United States
03/08/2014 10:27 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
...


>> We are not on this Earth for long, just enjoy the time you have.

True enough - and I do my best to live by that mantra.

But - just like in the movie the "Matrix" - once you swallow the "red pill", there's no going back to "blissful ignorance".

>> I also get a vibe you live in fear

A bit of "dread" - sure. Like going to the dentist for a root canal. NO ONE looks forward to that, but we do it anyway.

However, I am one of the few people I know who cannot be "frightened" into suppressing an unpleasant "idea".

Oh how I wish it were otherwise at times!
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


So, you have swallowed the red pill, now what ? how old are you ? ... that can be rhetoric if you like but consider how long you have left on this Earth. Is the worry and dedication to an unknown worth it ?
 Quoting: Wispa


Past 50.

>> Is the worry and dedication to an unknown worth it?

I'm not all that "worried" really. Which is precisely why I can talk about it so easily, and why I talk about it here, and not so much anywhere else. I don't like seeing the wide eyed terror in people's eyes when they contemplate the possibilities of this thing - and I have seen it. Thankfully they boomerang to denial at light speed - and live there happily.

Sometimes - I'm even JEALOUS of how easily they do it.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


The wide eyed terror in peoples eyes ? how many people do you know Max, that have mentioned Nibiru to that looked scared at the mention of it ? how many people have you scared by mentioning it ?

You have seen it ? I will call you a blatent liar for that statement Max.
Perhaps you are not lying and are just delusional enough to believe what you type.
 Quoting: Wispa


>> how many people have you scared by mentioning it ?

Less than a dozen. You have to do more than "mention" it. You have to show them Velikovsky and Sitchen's writings, and pictures of places like Baalbek and things like that. The internet makes that too easy nowadays.
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
74444

User ID: 74444
United States
03/08/2014 10:34 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
>> You want to make sure that the Nibiru idea *cannot* be disproved to you in any practicable way.

True - in a way. But really more the inverse. I don't "think" anyone can disprove it, but I would be VERY grateful to anyone who could.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


But you can't even *imagine* any way to do it -- excepting a ridiculous set that no one could possibly accomplish, which you then don't even pursue yourself *anyway.*

It's like preparing to play a football game but keeping the location of the goal line strictly to yourself.

The predictability of the stars' motions won't do it.
The predictability of the planets' motions won't do it.
The study that indicates nothing is within 20,000 plus A.U.s won't do it.
The words of professional and amateur astronomers alike won't do it.
The utter violation of basic physical laws that haven't failed a test won't do it.
The repeated failed predictions won't do it.
No experiment.
No observation.
Nothing.

If you cannot *imagine* any piece of evidence ever disproving the idea, it cannot be disproved. QED.

And the *furthest* you look for said contrary evidence is some people posting on a conspiracy board!

Come to think of it, why haven't you set the bar so high for the *believers* in Nibiru? You get on my case when all I demand is an RA and Declination! Look at what *you* demand!


>> It is, demonstrably, an irrational *belief.*

PLEASE! By ALL means! DEMONSTRATE!!!
 Quoting: ***Zetamax***


Just did. You cannot provide a rational way by which you can doubt the Nibiru legend, despite heaps of evidence against it. Every Newtonian law, every time you drop an object it disproves Nibiru as described. The best sky surveys around have failed to find any object remotely resembling Nibiru as described. No physical evidence. You twist ancient texts into some kind of support, dismissing that the ancients might be just as prone to storytelling as we are today. Surely *all* ancient stories must be completely factual.

You dismiss any contrary evidence completely out of hand, without looking into it yourself. Irrational, by definition.
 Quoting: 74444


>> But you can't even *imagine* any way to do it

True and not true. Not true in the sense that IF I could get unrestrained access to the Vatican, Mars rovers, etc., THAT would satisfy me.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


So, you are deliberately setting the bar so ridiculously high so that it remains impossible to disprove to you.

That's irrational. That's a *belief.*

But that's IMPOSSIBLE - and we BOTH know it.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


Yes. yet, strangely, you don't set the bar so high for the existence of, say, Tasmania.

What's the difference? You are relying on the maps of experts, you're relying on government information, but I tend to doubt you actually *know* anyone who has been to Tasmania, nor been there yourself, but you believe it exists *without* setting the bar so high.

Why?

So it's back to "TRUE" - I can't indeed "imagine" a way to otherwise do it.

But that is precisely my dilemma!! "Imagination" is a form of insight. It's pretty much impossible to "imagine" something that someone cannot first "comprehend".
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


Poop. Kids imagine things all the time that they don't comprehend.

And right now I don't COMPREHEND how anything short of full unfiltered access to the same data the elites of this world have access to, will do it.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


Poop again. Why set the bar so high on disproving Niburu, but not so high disproving *anything else?*
***ZetaMaX***

User ID: 55301072
United States
03/08/2014 10:51 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
>> You want to make sure that the Nibiru idea *cannot* be disproved to you in any practicable way.

True - in a way. But really more the inverse. I don't "think" anyone can disprove it, but I would be VERY grateful to anyone who could.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


But you can't even *imagine* any way to do it -- excepting a ridiculous set that no one could possibly accomplish, which you then don't even pursue yourself *anyway.*

It's like preparing to play a football game but keeping the location of the goal line strictly to yourself.

The predictability of the stars' motions won't do it.
The predictability of the planets' motions won't do it.
The study that indicates nothing is within 20,000 plus A.U.s won't do it.
The words of professional and amateur astronomers alike won't do it.
The utter violation of basic physical laws that haven't failed a test won't do it.
The repeated failed predictions won't do it.
No experiment.
No observation.
Nothing.

If you cannot *imagine* any piece of evidence ever disproving the idea, it cannot be disproved. QED.

And the *furthest* you look for said contrary evidence is some people posting on a conspiracy board!

Come to think of it, why haven't you set the bar so high for the *believers* in Nibiru? You get on my case when all I demand is an RA and Declination! Look at what *you* demand!


>> It is, demonstrably, an irrational *belief.*

PLEASE! By ALL means! DEMONSTRATE!!!
 Quoting: ***Zetamax***


Just did. You cannot provide a rational way by which you can doubt the Nibiru legend, despite heaps of evidence against it. Every Newtonian law, every time you drop an object it disproves Nibiru as described. The best sky surveys around have failed to find any object remotely resembling Nibiru as described. No physical evidence. You twist ancient texts into some kind of support, dismissing that the ancients might be just as prone to storytelling as we are today. Surely *all* ancient stories must be completely factual.

You dismiss any contrary evidence completely out of hand, without looking into it yourself. Irrational, by definition.
 Quoting: 74444


>> But you can't even *imagine* any way to do it

True and not true. Not true in the sense that IF I could get unrestrained access to the Vatican, Mars rovers, etc., THAT would satisfy me.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


So, you are deliberately setting the bar so ridiculously high so that it remains impossible to disprove to you.

That's irrational. That's a *belief.*

But that's IMPOSSIBLE - and we BOTH know it.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


Yes. yet, strangely, you don't set the bar so high for the existence of, say, Tasmania.

What's the difference? You are relying on the maps of experts, you're relying on government information, but I tend to doubt you actually *know* anyone who has been to Tasmania, nor been there yourself, but you believe it exists *without* setting the bar so high.

Why?

So it's back to "TRUE" - I can't indeed "imagine" a way to otherwise do it.

But that is precisely my dilemma!! "Imagination" is a form of insight. It's pretty much impossible to "imagine" something that someone cannot first "comprehend".
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


Poop. Kids imagine things all the time that they don't comprehend.

And right now I don't COMPREHEND how anything short of full unfiltered access to the same data the elites of this world have access to, will do it.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


Poop again. Why set the bar so high on disproving Niburu, but not so high disproving *anything else?*
 Quoting: 74444


>> Yes. yet, strangely, you don't set the bar so high for the existence of, say, Tasmania.

Boy that is a WEAK analogy - especially for YOU (one of the few debunkers I actually have some respect for). I can buy a ticket and travel there TOMORROW. I can't call anyone I know and instruct them to let me into the control room of the Mars orbiters so that I can direct them "directly" and see the Cydonia region of Mars MYSELF on the live feed without having to "trust" NASA and JPL to do it for me. Lord knows Hoagland's tried for a lot less for DECADES now, and has gotten nowhere.

>> Poop. Kids imagine things all the time that they don't comprehend.

a. I'm not a "kid". (My knees and gray hair tell me so)
b. "kids" are trying to comprehend what they SEE - and are surrounded by a world they have no experience with. You are trying to have me seperate my "experience" and lifetime of insights and regress to the wide-eyed wonderment of a child. Sorry - can't (not "won't" - CAN'T) do it.

But I will say this - I have seen the Rings of Saturn in photographs, and have not one clue how they got there, or what keeps them so perfectly in place. Any attempt by me to explain them would sound quite "childlike". Point is, I, like a child, would be trying to comprehend something I have actually SEEN.

I have not "seen" the "non-existence" of Nibiru. I've only seen a LOT of evidence compiled by the likes of Velikovsky and Sitchin. That evidence has to be "explained" in some other way that makes SENSE if Nibiru is suddenly withdrawn from "consideration". THAT is the problem anyone faces who wants to have me "imagine" that Nibiru is not real.

Last Edited by ***ZetaMaX*** on 03/08/2014 11:18 PM
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
Anonymous Coward
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03/09/2014 04:32 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
...


So, you have swallowed the red pill, now what ? how old are you ? ... that can be rhetoric if you like but consider how long you have left on this Earth. Is the worry and dedication to an unknown worth it ?
 Quoting: Wispa


Past 50.

>> Is the worry and dedication to an unknown worth it?

I'm not all that "worried" really. Which is precisely why I can talk about it so easily, and why I talk about it here, and not so much anywhere else. I don't like seeing the wide eyed terror in people's eyes when they contemplate the possibilities of this thing - and I have seen it. Thankfully they boomerang to denial at light speed - and live there happily.

Sometimes - I'm even JEALOUS of how easily they do it.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


The wide eyed terror in peoples eyes ? how many people do you know Max, that have mentioned Nibiru to that looked scared at the mention of it ? how many people have you scared by mentioning it ?

You have seen it ? I will call you a blatent liar for that statement Max.
Perhaps you are not lying and are just delusional enough to believe what you type.
 Quoting: Wispa


>> how many people have you scared by mentioning it ?

Less than a dozen. You have to do more than "mention" it. You have to show them Velikovsky and Sitchen's writings, and pictures of places like Baalbek and things like that. The internet makes that too easy nowadays.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


Just because its on the internet doesn't mean its true. The internet and photoshop make it easy to perpetuate lies and fantasies. Max doesn't believe any of this shit, he does it to yank people's chain. He 's been having the same lame argument since I first encountered him years ago when Nancy was still doing her live "chat" here. All this time and he still hasn't brought any convincing evidence to prove his fairy planet exists. He doesn't care that he might freak out a kid or someone who is on the edge. It's about feeding his ego and nothing more than that.

feedtroll
74444

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03/09/2014 05:23 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
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But you can't even *imagine* any way to do it -- excepting a ridiculous set that no one could possibly accomplish, which you then don't even pursue yourself *anyway.*

It's like preparing to play a football game but keeping the location of the goal line strictly to yourself.

The predictability of the stars' motions won't do it.
The predictability of the planets' motions won't do it.
The study that indicates nothing is within 20,000 plus A.U.s won't do it.
The words of professional and amateur astronomers alike won't do it.
The utter violation of basic physical laws that haven't failed a test won't do it.
The repeated failed predictions won't do it.
No experiment.
No observation.
Nothing.

If you cannot *imagine* any piece of evidence ever disproving the idea, it cannot be disproved. QED.

And the *furthest* you look for said contrary evidence is some people posting on a conspiracy board!

Come to think of it, why haven't you set the bar so high for the *believers* in Nibiru? You get on my case when all I demand is an RA and Declination! Look at what *you* demand!


...


Just did. You cannot provide a rational way by which you can doubt the Nibiru legend, despite heaps of evidence against it. Every Newtonian law, every time you drop an object it disproves Nibiru as described. The best sky surveys around have failed to find any object remotely resembling Nibiru as described. No physical evidence. You twist ancient texts into some kind of support, dismissing that the ancients might be just as prone to storytelling as we are today. Surely *all* ancient stories must be completely factual.

You dismiss any contrary evidence completely out of hand, without looking into it yourself. Irrational, by definition.
 Quoting: 74444


>> But you can't even *imagine* any way to do it

True and not true. Not true in the sense that IF I could get unrestrained access to the Vatican, Mars rovers, etc., THAT would satisfy me.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


So, you are deliberately setting the bar so ridiculously high so that it remains impossible to disprove to you.

That's irrational. That's a *belief.*

But that's IMPOSSIBLE - and we BOTH know it.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


Yes. yet, strangely, you don't set the bar so high for the existence of, say, Tasmania.

What's the difference? You are relying on the maps of experts, you're relying on government information, but I tend to doubt you actually *know* anyone who has been to Tasmania, nor been there yourself, but you believe it exists *without* setting the bar so high.

Why?

So it's back to "TRUE" - I can't indeed "imagine" a way to otherwise do it.

But that is precisely my dilemma!! "Imagination" is a form of insight. It's pretty much impossible to "imagine" something that someone cannot first "comprehend".
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


Poop. Kids imagine things all the time that they don't comprehend.

And right now I don't COMPREHEND how anything short of full unfiltered access to the same data the elites of this world have access to, will do it.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


Poop again. Why set the bar so high on disproving Niburu, but not so high disproving *anything else?*
 Quoting: 74444


>> Yes. yet, strangely, you don't set the bar so high for the existence of, say, Tasmania.

Boy that is a WEAK analogy - especially for YOU (one of the few debunkers I actually have some respect for).
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


I honestly see no evidence for said respect whatsoever.

I can buy a ticket and travel there TOMORROW.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


But, *until you do,* you are relying on the hearsay of others, *exactly* like you are about Nibiru. Why the double-standard?

I can't call anyone I know and instruct them to let me into the control room of the Mars orbiters so that I can direct them "directly" and see the Cydonia region of Mars MYSELF on the live feed without having to "trust" NASA and JPL to do it for me. Lord knows Hoagland's tried for a lot less for DECADES now, and has gotten nowhere.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


Except that he did -- and didn't like the answers he got, because they tended to disprove his hypothesis.


>> Poop. Kids imagine things all the time that they don't comprehend.

a. I'm not a "kid". (My knees and gray hair tell me so)
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


Then stop acting like one. Give a rational, possible way to disprove the PX/Nibiru theory to you. **Like a rational adult.**

b. "kids" are trying to comprehend what they SEE - and are surrounded by a world they have no experience with. You are trying to have me seperate my "experience" and lifetime of insights and regress to the wide-eyed wonderment of a child. Sorry - can't (not "won't" - CAN'T) do it.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


A pity. Wonder is one of the best emotions we have.


I have not "seen" the "non-existence" of Nibiru. I've only seen a LOT of evidence compiled by the likes of Velikovsky and Sitchin. That evidence has to be "explained" in some other way that makes SENSE if Nibiru is suddenly withdrawn from "consideration". THAT is the problem anyone faces who wants to have me "imagine" that Nibiru is not real.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


Again, that's ridiculous. What physical observation is explained more readily by the Nibiru scenario than with more traditional models of the solar system? What does their model *predict* that isn't successfully predicted currently? Again, what possible proof or observation would *falsify* Sitchin's or Velikovsky's ideas specifically to you? Why do you give their explanations more weight, than the article I posted about the findings of WISE, other than to keep the argument going? Why set the bar so high on disproving Niburu, but not so high disproving *anything else?*

Last Edited by 74444 on 03/09/2014 05:24 AM
***ZetaMaX***

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...


>> But you can't even *imagine* any way to do it

True and not true. Not true in the sense that IF I could get unrestrained access to the Vatican, Mars rovers, etc., THAT would satisfy me.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


So, you are deliberately setting the bar so ridiculously high so that it remains impossible to disprove to you.

That's irrational. That's a *belief.*

But that's IMPOSSIBLE - and we BOTH know it.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


Yes. yet, strangely, you don't set the bar so high for the existence of, say, Tasmania.

What's the difference? You are relying on the maps of experts, you're relying on government information, but I tend to doubt you actually *know* anyone who has been to Tasmania, nor been there yourself, but you believe it exists *without* setting the bar so high.

Why?

So it's back to "TRUE" - I can't indeed "imagine" a way to otherwise do it.

But that is precisely my dilemma!! "Imagination" is a form of insight. It's pretty much impossible to "imagine" something that someone cannot first "comprehend".
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


Poop. Kids imagine things all the time that they don't comprehend.

And right now I don't COMPREHEND how anything short of full unfiltered access to the same data the elites of this world have access to, will do it.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


Poop again. Why set the bar so high on disproving Niburu, but not so high disproving *anything else?*
 Quoting: 74444


>> Yes. yet, strangely, you don't set the bar so high for the existence of, say, Tasmania.

Boy that is a WEAK analogy - especially for YOU (one of the few debunkers I actually have some respect for).
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


I honestly see no evidence for said respect whatsoever.

I can buy a ticket and travel there TOMORROW.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


But, *until you do,* you are relying on the hearsay of others, *exactly* like you are about Nibiru. Why the double-standard?

I can't call anyone I know and instruct them to let me into the control room of the Mars orbiters so that I can direct them "directly" and see the Cydonia region of Mars MYSELF on the live feed without having to "trust" NASA and JPL to do it for me. Lord knows Hoagland's tried for a lot less for DECADES now, and has gotten nowhere.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


Except that he did -- and didn't like the answers he got, because they tended to disprove his hypothesis.


>> Poop. Kids imagine things all the time that they don't comprehend.

a. I'm not a "kid". (My knees and gray hair tell me so)
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


Then stop acting like one. Give a rational, possible way to disprove the PX/Nibiru theory to you. **Like a rational adult.**

b. "kids" are trying to comprehend what they SEE - and are surrounded by a world they have no experience with. You are trying to have me seperate my "experience" and lifetime of insights and regress to the wide-eyed wonderment of a child. Sorry - can't (not "won't" - CAN'T) do it.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


A pity. Wonder is one of the best emotions we have.


I have not "seen" the "non-existence" of Nibiru. I've only seen a LOT of evidence compiled by the likes of Velikovsky and Sitchin. That evidence has to be "explained" in some other way that makes SENSE if Nibiru is suddenly withdrawn from "consideration". THAT is the problem anyone faces who wants to have me "imagine" that Nibiru is not real.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


Again, that's ridiculous. What physical observation is explained more readily by the Nibiru scenario than with more traditional models of the solar system? What does their model *predict* that isn't successfully predicted currently? Again, what possible proof or observation would *falsify* Sitchin's or Velikovsky's ideas specifically to you? Why do you give their explanations more weight, than the article I posted about the findings of WISE, other than to keep the argument going? Why set the bar so high on disproving Niburu, but not so high disproving *anything else?*
 Quoting: 74444


>> What physical observation is explained more readily by the Nibiru scenario than with more traditional models of the solar system?

Let's see:

1. Flying pieces of a water-bearing planet - we call them COMETS
2. The asteroid belt (all asteroids, in fact - especially iron ones).
3. Uranus's weird rotation
4. Venus's weird rotation
5. According to the "zone" model, Mars should be in front of Earth, not behind (and according to the Sumerian's, it WAS).
6. There is no mainstream (non-catastrophic) capture model that even begins to explain how we got our moon - which is WAY oversized and in an almost too perfect cirular orbit (Sumerians say it once belonged to Nibiru and was captured at the time of the collision with Tiamat).
7. Some catastrophe appears to have stripped the atmosphere from (and surface) water from Mars. Nibiru easily explains that too.

And that is just the "astronomical" physical observations. I have read entire books outlining the features of earth that are better explained by Nibiru than any mainstream geological explanations.

Then there's the archeological physical observations like Baalbek, the Great Pyramid, and the Sumerian tablets themselves.

Finally - the "not" so physical archeological findings about what those old folks actually SAID and wrote as gleaned from carved inscriptions, surviving papyrus (and there would be a LOT more if it wasn't for our WONDERFUL, LOVING Catholic Church!), and oral traditions.

>> Why do you give their explanations more weight, than the article I posted about the findings of WISE, other than to keep the argument going?

The shear VOLUME of evidence for Nibiru and the Annunaki, especially when one looks at ALL the evidence from different disciplines - astronomy, geology, archeology, etc. Your WISE article is too easily falsified, and impossible for anyone outside of NASA and the professional astronomy community to replicate and verify. Essentially, someone would have to survey ALL of space in every direction with powerful, expensive equipment not available to amateurs for the time necessary.

Good luck "fabricating" Baalbek!

In fact, you haven't actually READ Velikovsky - have you???

Here, I'll make it EASY for you:

[link to www.pdfarchive.info]

Read it, and we can have a REAL debate!
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
***ZetaMaX***

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03/09/2014 09:29 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
...


Past 50.

>> Is the worry and dedication to an unknown worth it?

I'm not all that "worried" really. Which is precisely why I can talk about it so easily, and why I talk about it here, and not so much anywhere else. I don't like seeing the wide eyed terror in people's eyes when they contemplate the possibilities of this thing - and I have seen it. Thankfully they boomerang to denial at light speed - and live there happily.

Sometimes - I'm even JEALOUS of how easily they do it.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


The wide eyed terror in peoples eyes ? how many people do you know Max, that have mentioned Nibiru to that looked scared at the mention of it ? how many people have you scared by mentioning it ?

You have seen it ? I will call you a blatent liar for that statement Max.
Perhaps you are not lying and are just delusional enough to believe what you type.
 Quoting: Wispa


>> how many people have you scared by mentioning it ?

Less than a dozen. You have to do more than "mention" it. You have to show them Velikovsky and Sitchen's writings, and pictures of places like Baalbek and things like that. The internet makes that too easy nowadays.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


Just because its on the internet doesn't mean its true. The internet and photoshop make it easy to perpetuate lies and fantasies. Max doesn't believe any of this shit, he does it to yank people's chain. He 's been having the same lame argument since I first encountered him years ago when Nancy was still doing her live "chat" here. All this time and he still hasn't brought any convincing evidence to prove his fairy planet exists. He doesn't care that he might freak out a kid or someone who is on the edge. It's about feeding his ego and nothing more than that.

feedtroll
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10422385


Just because its on the internet doesn't mean its FALSE.

Here - you TOO can read Velikovsky:

[link to www.pdfarchive.info]

And don't worry, I compaired the internet version to a REAL copy of Worlds in Collision printed in 1971, and they MATCH!!!

5a

(imagine that!)

Last Edited by ***ZetaMaX*** on 03/09/2014 09:47 AM
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 55336803
Canada
03/09/2014 11:36 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
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Past 50.

>> Is the worry and dedication to an unknown worth it?

I'm not all that "worried" really. Which is precisely why I can talk about it so easily, and why I talk about it here, and not so much anywhere else. I don't like seeing the wide eyed terror in people's eyes when they contemplate the possibilities of this thing - and I have seen it. Thankfully they boomerang to denial at light speed - and live there happily.

Sometimes - I'm even JEALOUS of how easily they do it.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


The wide eyed terror in peoples eyes ? how many people do you know Max, that have mentioned Nibiru to that looked scared at the mention of it ? how many people have you scared by mentioning it ?

You have seen it ? I will call you a blatent liar for that statement Max.
Perhaps you are not lying and are just delusional enough to believe what you type.
 Quoting: Wispa


>> how many people have you scared by mentioning it ?

Less than a dozen. You have to do more than "mention" it. You have to show them Velikovsky and Sitchen's writings, and pictures of places like Baalbek and things like that. The internet makes that too easy nowadays.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


Just because its on the internet doesn't mean its true. The internet and photoshop make it easy to perpetuate lies and fantasies. Max doesn't believe any of this shit, he does it to yank people's chain. He 's been having the same lame argument since I first encountered him years ago when Nancy was still doing her live "chat" here. All this time and he still hasn't brought any convincing evidence to prove his fairy planet exists. He doesn't care that he might freak out a kid or someone who is on the edge. It's about feeding his ego and nothing more than that.

feedtroll
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10422385

hesright however AC they feed their pets here regardless that it bites their hands lol
Anonymous Coward
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03/09/2014 12:04 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I guess this wouldn't change Maxipad's mind about the veracity of Sitchen:
[link to www.sitchiniswrong.com]
74444

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
>> What physical observation is explained more readily by the Nibiru scenario than with more traditional models of the solar system?

Let's see:

1. Flying pieces of a water-bearing planet - we call them COMETS
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


How does the Nibiru explanation improve on the current theory? What observation would allow you to conclude that comets didn't originate from a water bearing planet? Where is said planet now? All the mass of all the comets yet discovered wouldn't come *close* to the mass of a planet.

It's amusing. The evidence for *one* non-existent planet is *another* non-existent planet.

2. The asteroid belt (all asteroids, in fact - especially iron ones).
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


What does the Nibiru explanation bring to the table about the asteroid belt that isn't explained by traditional models? The mass of the entire asteroid belt combined falls *far* short of being planetary.


3. Uranus's weird rotation
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


Again, what makes the Nibiru explanation more compelling than the traditional one? What does it explain that the current model *doesn't?* And what can convince you that the traditional explanation is correct?

4. Venus's weird rotation
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


Again, what makes the Nibiru explanation more compelling than the traditional one? What does it explain that the current model *doesn't?* And what can convince you that the traditional explanation is correct?

5. According to the "zone" model, Mars should be in front of Earth, not behind (and according to the Sumerian's, it WAS).
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


Where is your evidence for this? The current model makes no such prediction.


6. There is no mainstream (non-catastrophic) capture model that even begins to explain how we got our moon - which is WAY oversized and in an almost too perfect cirular orbit (Sumerians say it once belonged to Nibiru and was captured at the time of the collision with Tiamat).
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


And you somehow find *that* explanation more compelling than current theory?!? And why concentrate on the non-catastrophic model? Something hit, very early when the Earth was forming. The numbers add up, and the lunar samples confirm a common ancestor. As to the orbit, you don't want me to bring up all the errors IDW made about the Moon supposedly having the most circular orbit, because it most certainly does not.

7. Some catastrophe appears to have stripped the atmosphere from (and surface) water from Mars. Nibiru easily explains that too.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


So does the eventual loss of the magnetic field (or not really having one in the first place) The Nibiru model explains nothing how it would get close enough to rip the atmosphere off a planet yet magically leave it in the ecliptic. What observation makes the Nibiru explanation more likely than the traditional one?

And that is just the "astronomical" physical observations.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


That's all I'm interested in.


I have read entire books outlining the features of earth that are better explained by Nibiru than any mainstream geological explanations.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


So? I've read entire books about the South being given AK-47s to win the Civil War.

Also, there are also pretty damning critiques of the idea out there.

[link to www.sitchiniswrong.com]
[link to www.space.com]
[link to www.badastronomy.com]
[link to planet-x.150m.com]
[link to answers.yahoo.com]

THat last one is for fun. I expect you won't address any of the criticisms and will, instead, attack the writers.
And also note that every specific prediction Stichin, Lieder, Hazelwood, et. al have made about Nibiru's imminent arrival has proven completely wrong. That doesn't doesn't help, either. Back to that crying wolf thing.


>> Why do you give their explanations more weight, than the article I posted about the findings of WISE, other than to keep the argument going?

The shear VOLUME of evidence for Nibiru and the Annunaki, especially when one looks at ALL the evidence from different disciplines - astronomy, geology, archeology, etc. Your WISE article is too easily falsified, and impossible for anyone outside of NASA and the professional astronomy community to replicate and verify. Essentially, someone would have to survey ALL of space in every direction with powerful, expensive equipment not available to amateurs for the time necessary.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


The complete sky surveys have been and continue to be done. Obviously the *thousands* who participate are all 'in' on your conspiracy.

[link to www.sdss.org]
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
[link to wise2.ipac.caltech.edu]
[link to pan-starrs.ifa.hawaii.edu]
[link to www.ipac.caltech.edu]
[link to wise.ssl.berkeley.edu]
[link to www.jach.hawaii.edu]
[link to www.lsst.org]
[link to wise.ssl.berkeley.edu]

But none will be enough to convince you -- you will handwave any contrary data as being 'part of the conspiracy.' Parsimony suggests that the Nibiru idea isn't necessary to explain anything we observe; simpler and more elegant solutions appear to explain it just fine. The Nibiru idea doesn't bring anything *new.* Likewise, the continued failed predictions of the myriad of Nibiru proponents, to the point where they now refuse to *make* any specific predictions whatsoever because they're tired of being continually proved wrong over time, speaks to the weakness of the idea as well. Existing evidence such as the WISE survey must be ignored completely, or the participating scientists' reputations besmirched (without evidence) to attempt to prop the theory up more.

Sorry. Give me an RA and Declination I can observe for myself. If you can't, you might as well be talking about the tooth fairy or the Dragon that lives in my garage, because the evidence for the existence for any of those is about equivalent.

So now I'm going to watch Cosmos, and I am sure it will be a fantastic indoctrination extravaganza of the elite. I certainly suggest you don't watch it, then, ZM.

Last Edited by 74444 on 03/09/2014 01:31 PM
***ZetaMaX***

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03/09/2014 01:38 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I guess this wouldn't change Maxipad's mind about the veracity of Sitchen:
[link to www.sitchiniswrong.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10422385


Didn't take long to isolate the "gist" of this guy's argument:

If you’re confused, you aren’t alone. This tri-fold (fourfold if you count Mercury) designation for Nibiru is why scholars of cuneiform astronomy have not been able to determine with certainty what exactly Nibiru is. We’ll go into the problem more in later sections. One thing is certain from the texts, though: Nibiru is NEVER identified as a planet beyond Pluto.

This is precisely why a LAWYER is probably better at interpreting this type of material. This guy is complaining that there is no "smoking gun", so therefore the dead guy riddled with bullet holes couldn't have been shot.

Yes - "technically" he's right. Nowhere in the texts is it SPELLED OUT in clear unambiguous language, that Nibiru is a "planet" beyond Pluto. If that was the case, Sitchin wouldn't have needed 436 pages to make his "CASE".

The Charles Manson trial lasted over a YEAR! Why so long? Because both the prosecution and defense agreed that Manson himself was not at the scence of the crime, and did not do the physical killings.

Yet - he was convicted of first degree capital murder and given the death sentence (though it was later commuted to life in prison).

In the final analysis, Manson was considered MORE guilty than the actual physical killers.

I don't have time right now to go into an analysis of the 3600 year orbit - but I WILL.
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I don't have time right now to go into an analysis of the 3600 year orbit - but I WILL.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


Will that happen "soon" (like when all the other Nibiru events are supposed to happen) ?
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I don't have time right now to go into an analysis of the 3600 year orbit - but I WILL.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


Just like you were supposed to provide information about palm fronds found in the Artic a few years ago but never did.
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
White Sun
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
[link to www.google.ca (secure)]
***ZetaMaX***

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
 Quoting: White Sun 17927367


Looks like CB is in STUNNED SILENCE!!!
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
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03/12/2014 11:08 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
The link says 52 million years ago. How does this tie in with an imminent pole shift and your hypothetical 3600 year cycle?
***ZetaMaX***

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
The link says 52 million years ago. How does this tie in with an imminent pole shift and your hypothetical 3600 year cycle?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10422385


Work'n on it ...
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
 Quoting: White Sun 17927367


Looks like CB is in STUNNED SILENCE!!!
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


No, I have better things to do than visit this site every few hours. Apparently, you have more time on your hands. Whatever is in the link, it's interesting that someone else did what you couldn't.
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Work'n on it ...
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


Yeah, you said that like five years ago. How long does it take?
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.





GLP