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Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!

 
Anonymous Coward
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10/01/2009 11:05 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
hm, looks like denial [of the initial statement]

Yes, and denial is what you live in.


You would be the expert on that!!!

:headsand:
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***


I ask you AGAIN, Max, since you seem to think WE have our heads in the sand...CAN YOU NAME ONE SINGLE ASTROMICAL CLAIM OR PREDICTION FROM ZT THAT HAS EVER COME TRUE? JUST ONE?
tater

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10/01/2009 11:06 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I found this article may be very fitting with ZetaTalk.

Let's see how many of these criteria fit Nancy and ZetaTalk.

Marcia Rudin's 14 Common Characteristics of a Cult

1. Members swear total allegiance to an all-powerful leader who they believe to be the Messiah.

2. Rational thought is discouraged or forbidden.

3. The cult's recruitment techniques are often deceptive.

4. The cult weakens the follower psychologically by making him or her depend upon the group to solve his or her problems.

5. The cults manipulate guilt to their advantage.

6. The cult leader makes all the career and life decision of the members.

7. Cults exist only for their own material survival and make false promises to work to improve society.

8. Cult members often work fulltime for the group for little or no pay.

9. Cult members are isolated from the outside world and any reality testing it could provide.

10. Cults are anti-woman, anti-child, and anti-family.

11. Cults are apocalyptic and believe themselves to be the remnant who will survive the soon-approaching end of the world.

12. Many cults follow an "ends justify the means" philosophy.

13. Cults, particularly in regard to their finances, are shrouded in secrecy.

14. There is frequently an aura of or potential for violence around cults.


Commentary by Nori J. Muster

If you think you might be involved in a cult, ask yourself some serious questions about the group.

Do you have to change who you are to fit in, please others?
Do they set up a duality of "us" and "them" and tell you that people outside the group are bad, less important?
Do they treat "outsiders" badly or talk behind their backs?
Do they treat members badly?
Do they give a false impression to the public?
Do they predict that society is on the brink of destruction?

Further symptoms:

Cult leaders are often psychopathic and power hungry. They teach their followers that the outside world is evil; that the cult offers the only salvation. This creates an atmosphere of isolation, leading to hopelessness.

Cult recruiters target people with low self-esteem, presenting the group as a loving surrogate family. Members are taught to do whatever the family asks. They must repress their individuality and work for the good of the group.

New people may receive red carpet treatment, but once they are established members, they may be exploited and abused. They may alter their personalities to please authority figures and fit into the group.

Cult leaders preach that society is on the brink of destruction, reinforced by isolating their members and controlling the flow of information within the cult. They manipulate members with guilt and fear.

Cults try to portray themselves as benign and may hide undesirable aspects of their operation from the public and from members. Thus the stereotype of "blind" followers.
Anonymous Coward
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10/01/2009 11:08 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I found this article may be very fitting with ZetaTalk.
 Quoting: tater


This is what we're talking about, exactly this.

clappa
Circuit Breaker

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10/01/2009 11:09 AM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
They don't all apply...but a good many of them do.

Naturally, Max, Andrew and Gerard will deny that. But they're rather wrapped up in ZetaTalk and can't see it so of course they'll deny it.

Last Edited by Circuit Breaker on 10/01/2009 11:11 AM
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
Anonymous Coward
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10/01/2009 11:12 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
little human scientists and their mindless wannabe experts
 Quoting: andrew


...who get every single astronomical prediction correct to the second while Nancy has never gotten ANYTHING right.

Yeah, Andrew...that's real "independent thinking".
Anonymous Coward
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10/01/2009 11:13 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
just like i pointed out somewhere in these threads: "de-bunkers" are disturbed because of the fact that there are people who take ZetaTalk seriously and support it.

 Quoting: andrew


Yet, look who is here on the debunker thread whining and crying.
***ZetaMax***

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10/01/2009 11:16 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
They don't all apply...but a good many of them do.

Naturally, Max, Andrew and Gerard will deny that. But they're rather wrapped up in ZetaTalk and can't see it so of course they'll deny it.
 Quoting: Circuit Breaker

ZetaTalk is NOT a cult!
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
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10/01/2009 11:17 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Ooo, looks like somebody hit a nerve, aye Max????

s226
Earth420
Om mani padme hum

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10/01/2009 11:19 AM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Hi ya all!

And yes, Zetatalk is not a cult...

Peace
Om Tare Tuttare Ture Svaha
Menow
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10/01/2009 11:21 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Hi ya all!

And yes, Zetatalk is not a cult...

Peace
 Quoting: Earth420


Why do you believe what Nancy tells you?
Returner
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10/01/2009 11:23 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Face it, ZTers, ZetaTalk is about one barrel of Very Special Kool-Aid from being a cult, and you guys know it...
Anonymous Coward
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10/01/2009 11:24 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Let's see how many of these criteria fit Nancy and ZetaTalk.

Marcia Rudin's 14 Common Characteristics of a Cult
 Quoting: tater


1. Members swear total allegiance to an all-powerful leader who they believe to be the Messiah.
 Quoting: tater

Mya ... not really, but a little bit ... the see her more like "the wise one", not really a messiah though.

2. Rational thought is discouraged or forbidden.
 Quoting: tater

Confirmative.

3. The cult's recruitment techniques are often deceptive.
 Quoting: tater

Does not apply, there is no real recruition ... it seems to attract retards though.
4. The cult weakens the follower psychologically by making him or her depend upon the group to solve his or her problems.
 Quoting: tater

Does not really apply, but some of our Zetards trust ZetaTalk and get weakened by that. But Nancy does not force it, its freewill retardism.
5. The cults manipulate guilt to their advantage.
 Quoting: tater

Yes I say. Change "guilt" with "fail" and you have it.
6. The cult leader makes all the career and life decision of the members.
 Quoting: tater

Does not apply.
7. Cults exist only for their own material survival and make false promises to work to improve society.
 Quoting: tater

Nope, does not apply.
8. Cult members often work fulltime for the group for little or no pay.
 Quoting: tater

Not that I know of ... most are fulltime retards though.
9. Cult members are isolated from the outside world and any reality testing it could provide.
 Quoting: tater

They isolate themself mentally I think.
10. Cults are anti-woman, anti-child, and anti-family.
 Quoting: tater

Not really ... pretty much anti-dog though :)
11. Cults are apocalyptic and believe themselves to be the remnant who will survive the soon-approaching end of the world.
 Quoting: tater

Confirmative, Alex answered with "yes" to the question if he thinks he will be one of the survivors, look a few pages ahead and you will see.
12. Many cults follow an "ends justify the means" philosophy.
 Quoting: tater

Not really.
13. Cults, particularly in regard to their finances, are shrouded in secrecy.
 Quoting: tater

No idea, maybe, maybe not ... dont think Nancy made BIG money with it.
14. There is frequently an aura of or potential for violence around cults.
 Quoting: tater

Not as long Zetards stay away from my dogs I guess :)

Further symptoms:

Cult leaders are often psychopathic and power hungry. They teach their followers that the outside world is evil; that the cult offers the only salvation. This creates an atmosphere of isolation, leading to hopelessness.
 Quoting: tater

Hell yeah, confirmative on psychopathic.

Cult recruiters target people with low self-esteem, presenting the group as a loving surrogate family. Members are taught to do whatever the family asks. They must repress their individuality and work for the good of the group.
 Quoting: tater

Not really, as I said above, these are retards with plenty of self-esteem.
New people may receive red carpet treatment, but once they are established members, they may be exploited and abused. They may alter their personalities to please authority figures and fit into the group.
 Quoting: tater

Not really as far as I know
Cult leaders preach that society is on the brink of destruction, reinforced by isolating their members and controlling the flow of information within the cult. They manipulate members with guilt and fear.
 Quoting: tater

Mentally, yes.
Cults try to portray themselves as benign and may hide undesirable aspects of their operation from the public and from members. Thus the stereotype of "blind" followers.
 Quoting: tater

Yes, indeed. The followers blindfolded themselfes willfully though.
andrew

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10/01/2009 11:25 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
oh wow! you know Lenin! im honestly impressed!


Guess you love Lenin, little communist boy ?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 783724


he was a true idealist, unlike what has come after him - Stalins purge. Stalin was in Lenin's surrounding and he (Stalin) was eager for power from the very beginning, and had secret disdain for Lenin, exactly because his idealism and dedication, which were not in Stalins intent.
Circuit Breaker

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10/01/2009 11:25 AM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
As we all know, Nancy had some images taken at coordinates given to her by the "Zetas" and then those images were analyzed with Nancy declaring that "Planet X" was found. Whether it was or wasn't isn't really important. But, that leaves me with some questions: If "Planet X" is here now, as Nancy and Gerard maintain, then why hasn't she gotten the location from the "Zetas" and had someone she trusts take some new images? They could easily obtain their own telescope and do it. Since "Planet X" is supposedly somewhere near the sun, they wouldn't have needed an elaborate and expensive telescope. They could probably get everything they needed for around $500. Or, they could go all out. Hap offered the use of his professional grade equipment. All Nancy had to do was go herself or appoint someone she trusted to do it for her. This would have been the best solution. For one thing, we know the equipment would have been of good quality and properly set up. Second, we know the observation methods used would be sound. Third, there would be witnesses...bunker and debunker. And finally, if "Planet X" was found...it would have been done on equipment owned by a debunker. All of this would have made it the ultimate win-win situation for Nancy. There would be no more debate or argument. They'd be able to rub our little debunker noses in it. And yet, none of them have tried either method. Why? Gerard...Andrew? Care to explain that one?
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
Circuit Breaker

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10/01/2009 11:27 AM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
ZetaTalk is NOT a cult!
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***

And there you go! Max proves my point. However, I didn't say it was a cult. I simply said that many parts of it meet the criteria.
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Circuit Breaker

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10/01/2009 11:28 AM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Mya ... not really, but a little bit ... the see her more like "the wise one", not really a messiah though.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 783724


They may not...but Nancy sees herself that way having once claimed she's like Mother Theresa and Joan of Arc rolled into one.
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
Earth420
Om mani padme hum

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Hi ya all!

And yes, Zetatalk is not a cult...

Peace


Why do you believe what Nancy tells you?
 Quoting: Menow 405501


Hello Menow! Hope all is well... and I think no answer would suffice to satisfy what would be of your rational belief in your judgement and conclusion on this subject... but thats ok! I as well am a bit watchful of our earthquakes at the moment, and feeling for Mother Earth...
Take care man! We are in these times together regardless of what you think of me! ;)

Peace
Om Tare Tuttare Ture Svaha
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
oh wow! you know Lenin! im honestly impressed!


Guess you love Lenin, little communist boy ?


he was a true idealist, unlike what has come after him - Stalins purge. Stalin was in Lenin's surrounding and he (Stalin) was eager for power from the very beginning, and had secret disdain for Lenin, exactly because his idealism and dedication, which were not in Stalins intent.
 Quoting: andrew



You are so stupid Andrew ... unbelievable ... look here:

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

"The campaign of mass repressions was officially initiated as retribution for the assassination of Petrograd Cheka leader Moisei Uritsky, and attempted assassination of Vladimir Lenin by Fanya Kaplan on August 30, 1918. While recovering from his wounds, Lenin instructed: "It is necessary - secretly and urgently to prepare the terror" [10] Even before the assassinations, Lenin was sending telegrams "to introduce mass terror" in Nizhny Novgorod in response to a suspected civilian uprising there, and "crush" landowners in Penza who protested, sometimes violently, to requisition of their grain by military detachments:[2]

"Comrades!... You must make example of these people. (1) Hang (I mean hang publicly, so that people see it) at least 100 kulaks, rich bastards, and known bloodsuckers. (2) Publish their names. (3) Seize all their grain. (4) Single out the hostages per my instructions in yesterday's telegram."

Five hundred "representatives of overthrown classes" were executed immediately by the Bolshevik communist government after the assassination of Uritsky [3]."
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Really, wouldn't a cult need more than 4 members?

To borrow a term coined on South Park, ZT is really more a 'fruity little club.'
andrew

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
and what does that look like?

right, Zetas RIGHT Again! hf

No one knows what it looks like. But it had nothing to do with some "Planet X." For one thing, the "Zetas" say planets shouldn't collide because of the "repulsion force." Besides, no one knows for certain that there was a collision. It's only a hypothesis based on the evidence at hand.

Zetas WRONG again!!
 Quoting: Circuit Breaker


that was not a PLANET that hit the early Earth, but an asterpoid, one of Planet X "moons". it gave Earth a gaping wound where the Pacific is now. all that "continental drift" is attempts by the Earth crust to "heal" itself, fill the gap.

"objects of approximate same size" it says, read it more carefully.
Circuit Breaker

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10/01/2009 11:31 AM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
7. Cults exist only for their own material survival and make false promises to work to improve society.

Nope, does not apply.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 783724

I think it does. Hence all the STO and STS banter.
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Anonymous Coward
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Really, wouldn't a cult need more than 4 members?

To borrow a term coined on South Park, ZT is really more a 'fruity little club.'
 Quoting: Returner 997


Its a small cult, growing weeker each month.
andrew

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
little human scientists and their mindless wannabe experts making serious look at their faces and pretending to know about everything, aka "eh, just grab a reference book and see how it was" [Earth's geological past].

There you have it! Andrew in all his arrogance saying that thousands of scientists, who have spent years studying, conducting tests and analyzing data are all wrong...but Andrew, with no formal education, is right and you should believe him simply because he said so.
 Quoting: Circuit Breaker


billions of people can spend thousands of years on doing... nonsense, basically. [just like you "de-bunkers"].

and all the while they could be WRONG. so, that's not an argument.
Menow
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10/01/2009 11:32 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Hi ya all!

And yes, Zetatalk is not a cult...

Peace


Why do you believe what Nancy tells you?


Hello Menow! Hope all is well... and I think no answer would suffice to satisfy what would be of your rational belief in your judgement and conclusion on this subject... but thats ok! I as well am a bit watchful of our earthquakes at the moment, and feeling for Mother Earth...
Take care man! We are in these times together regardless of what you think of me! ;)

Peace
 Quoting: Earth420


Your response is full of judgement of me and lacking any direct response to my question.
Circuit Breaker

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10/01/2009 11:32 AM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
that was not a PLANET that hit the early Earth, but an asterpoid, one of Planet X "moons". it gave Earth a gaping wound where the Pacific is now. all that "continental drift" is attempts by the Earth crust to "heal" itself, fill the gap.

"objects of approximate same size" it says, read it more carefully.
 Quoting: andrew

Oh, and you know this how? Based on what data and evidence? Oh, that's right...you don't have any. All you have is a belief. Nothing more. And, if what you say is true, then what's keeping "Planet X" from falling into the sun? They aren't the same size.

Ooops! A big hole has just been shot in Andrew's theory. The only way he can get out of that is to say "Planet X" isn't really here...but then that goes against what Nancy and the almighty "Zetas" have been saying for the past six years.

Oh, whoa is me. Who do we believe? Nancy and the "Zetas"....or Andrew?

Last Edited by Circuit Breaker on 10/01/2009 11:39 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Hey Andrew --

Spelling, dude. Asterpoid? LOL, good one. Edit is your friend.
andrew

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
i feel it is something significant, weak spot in the plates gave way.


Duh! It's called a fault. Try looking it up.

Oh, never mind...earthquakes are based on real science and you won't have any of that.
 Quoting: Circuit Breaker


yes, fault is a weak spot in the plates, you got it absolutely right!

hf
Circuit Breaker

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
billions of people can spend thousands of years on doing... nonsense, basically. [just like you "de-bunkers"].

and all the while they could be WRONG. so, that's not an argument.
 Quoting: andrew

Again...andrew, in his arrogance, is saying that he alone is right.
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
7. Cults exist only for their own material survival and make false promises to work to improve society.

Nope, does not apply.

I think it does. Hence all the STO and STS banter.
 Quoting: Circuit Breaker


OK, indeed ... didnt think of that, took "material survival" more in the money making scientology way ... but yes, you're right.
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
yes, fault is a weak spot in the plates, you got it absolutely right!


 Quoting: andrew

But Andrew....faults are based on Earth science and you reject that.
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.

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