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Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!

 
Circuit Breaker

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10/14/2009 01:45 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
What ***ZetaMax*** said:
Which question was that? I have answered so many ...
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***


What ***ZetaMax*** meant:
Which question was that? I have evaded so many ...
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***


Last Edited by Circuit Breaker on 10/14/2009 01:49 PM
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Circuit Breaker

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10/14/2009 01:46 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Just a bit more. I have the info, just have to "collate" it.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***

Sure you do.
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
Anonymous Coward
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10/14/2009 01:50 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Max, when are you going to answer the question you were asked yesterday?

He hasn't even posted information supporting his claims about Alaska. When we kept asking him about it last month, he said he needed a little time. It's been a month...how much time does he need?

Just a bit more. I have the info, just have to "collate" it.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***


Pathetic sock-puppet troll.
George B

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10/14/2009 01:51 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Forgot the link...

[link to scienceblogs.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 719433



A quote form the above link . . .

"On the other hand, none of the publicity about this mission over the last few days seems to have gone out of it's way to downplay expectations of a big kaboom (I was a little disappointed, and I was only expecting something on the lines of a little-to-middling puff). Public engagement is obviously a good thing, but engaging people labouring under a false assumption could easily backfire."

This is no doubt a PR failure on NASA's part. This gets Football coaches, CEO's and leaders of all types fired. Seems NASA is immune from much of this type of public reaction.
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Returner
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10/14/2009 02:06 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
These days, the vast majority of the Great Unwashed are too busy waddling around Wal-Mart in search of new and exciting NASCAR headwear to pay any attention to NASA. Or science. Or hygiene, for that matter, but I digress.

I think the space agency gave up years ago trying to capture the imagination of a people gone too damned stupid to understand the importance of space exploration.

Luckily, there have been enough people left in government to keep some funding going. But that's despite the public, not because of them.
George B

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10/14/2009 02:35 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
These days, the vast majority of the Great Unwashed are too busy waddling around Wal-Mart in search of new and exciting NASCAR headwear to pay any attention to NASA. Or science. Or hygiene, for that matter, but I digress.

I think the space agency gave up years ago trying to capture the imagination of a people gone too damned stupid to understand the importance of space exploration.

Luckily, there have been enough people left in government to keep some funding going. But that's despite the public, not because of them.
 Quoting: Returner 997


I disagree. The health and direction of NASA is up to the US government, its leaders and the US military. These people are responsible for the demise and lackluster performance of the NASA programs and not due to the lack of imagination and direction of the unwashed masses. Without imaginative, educated and motivated leaders the nation fails. The unwashed masses have always wanted the latest popular trends . . . from the beginning of civilization.
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
User # 78/68

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10/14/2009 02:51 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
These days, the vast majority of the Great Unwashed are too busy waddling around Wal-Mart in search of new and exciting NASCAR headwear to pay any attention to NASA. Or science. Or hygiene, for that matter, but I digress.

I think the space agency gave up years ago trying to capture the imagination of a people gone too damned stupid to understand the importance of space exploration.

Luckily, there have been enough people left in government to keep some funding going. But that's despite the public, not because of them.


I disagree. The health and direction of NASA is up to the US government, its leaders and the US military. These people are responsible for the demise and lackluster performance of the NASA programs and not due to the lack of imagination and direction of the unwashed masses. Without imaginative, educated and motivated leaders the nation fails. The unwashed masses have always wanted the latest popular trends . . . from the beginning of civilization.
 Quoting: George B





These debunkers always look less than sincere, especially on this latest NASA flub. One them went so far as seeing a plume NOBODY else saw, NASA included. He has been called on it many times already, yet he all he does is bang his fists and stomps his feet and insists he SAW it, in infra-red. But, the fact is, it wasn't there. His LIE is right out there for all to see.

Good for you on this one Dr Postman ... the bullshit you spew got all over ya. NASA must be very proud of you right now!
KeepingItReal

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10/14/2009 03:04 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
These debunkers always look less than sincere, especially on this latest NASA flub. One them went so far as seeing a plume NOBODY else saw, NASA included. He has been called on it many times already, yet he all he does is bang his fists and stomps his feet and insists he SAW it, in infra-red. But, the fact is, it wasn't there. His LIE is right out there for all to see.

Good for you on this one Dr Postman ... the bullshit you spew got all over ya. NASA must be very proud of you right now!
 Quoting: User # 78/68

Ah the hypocrisy! Kinda like Nancy pushing a stalled earth, a dark twin, the disappearance of the south pole, the wobble, planet X, exponential increase in earthquakes, when NOBODY else sees it, no instruments can detect it, and when anyone dares to point this out, Nancy and her followers throw a fit, and insist that they saw it with their own eyes. But the fact is, none of these things are there. Her LIES are right out there for all to see.

Good for you on this one, Luser ... the bullshit you spew got all over ya. Nancy must be very proud of you right now!
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Anonymous Coward
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10/14/2009 03:07 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
These days, the vast majority of the Great Unwashed are too busy waddling around Wal-Mart in search of new and exciting NASCAR headwear to pay any attention to NASA. Or science. Or hygiene, for that matter, but I digress.

I think the space agency gave up years ago trying to capture the imagination of a people gone too damned stupid to understand the importance of space exploration.

Luckily, there have been enough people left in government to keep some funding going. But that's despite the public, not because of them.


I disagree. The health and direction of NASA is up to the US government, its leaders and the US military. These people are responsible for the demise and lackluster performance of the NASA programs and not due to the lack of imagination and direction of the unwashed masses. Without imaginative, educated and motivated leaders the nation fails. The unwashed masses have always wanted the latest popular trends . . . from the beginning of civilization.
 Quoting: George B


"Lackluster performance of the NASA programs"? Are you crazy, or simply ignorant? May I remind you of the fact that we currently have two rovers on Mars that have been operational now for over 2000 days each, exceeded their design lifetimes by more than 20 times. May I remind you of the Mars Reconnaissance Observer currently in orbit around Mars sendiong back high resolution images. May I remind you that the Cassini orbiter has been at Saturn sending back images and data daily for over 5 years after having deployed a lander onto its moon Titan. May I remind you that we have 4 probes that are entering interstellar space...the two Pioneer probes having lasted more than 30 years (FAR beyond their expected lifetimes) and the Voyager probes with Voyager 2 still sending back data after more than 32 years. May I remind you that we recently had the Stardust craft successfully return cometary material and the Deep Impact probe successfully impact Comet Tempel. May I remind you of the New Horizons mission, currently on its way to Pluto. May I remind you of the recent Messenger mission to Mercury. May I remind you of the recent Phoenix Mars polar lander. And on and on and on....

Please try to keep up.
Anonymous Coward
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10/14/2009 03:08 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
These days, the vast majority of the Great Unwashed are too busy waddling around Wal-Mart in search of new and exciting NASCAR headwear to pay any attention to NASA. Or science. Or hygiene, for that matter, but I digress.

I think the space agency gave up years ago trying to capture the imagination of a people gone too damned stupid to understand the importance of space exploration.

Luckily, there have been enough people left in government to keep some funding going. But that's despite the public, not because of them.


I disagree. The health and direction of NASA is up to the US government, its leaders and the US military. These people are responsible for the demise and lackluster performance of the NASA programs and not due to the lack of imagination and direction of the unwashed masses. Without imaginative, educated and motivated leaders the nation fails. The unwashed masses have always wanted the latest popular trends . . . from the beginning of civilization.





These debunkers always look less than sincere, especially on this latest NASA flub. One them went so far as seeing a plume NOBODY else saw, NASA included. He has been called on it many times already, yet he all he does is bang his fists and stomps his feet and insists he SAW it, in infra-red. But, the fact is, it wasn't there. His LIE is right out there for all to see.

Good for you on this one Dr Postman ... the bullshit you spew got all over ya. NASA must be very proud of you right now!
 Quoting: User # 78/68


There was indeed an IR flash as the Centaur impacted.

[link to antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov]
George B

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10/14/2009 03:12 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
There was indeed an IR flash as the Centaur impacted.

[link to antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 719433


An IR Flash is not what NASA hyped . . . they failed so far to meet the lowest expectations of their public.
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Circuit Breaker

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10/14/2009 03:15 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
These debunkers always look less than sincere
 Quoting: User # 78/68

And when have you ever been sincere?

especially on this latest NASA flub.
 Quoting: User # 78/68

Exactly how was it a flub? Care to explain?

One them went so far as seeing a plume NOBODY else saw, NASA included.
 Quoting: User # 78/68

Already explained...but, as usual, you overlook relevant details.

He has been called on it many times already
 Quoting: User # 78/68

That's funny coming from someone who has been called out numerous times themselves.

His LIE is right out there for all to see.
 Quoting: User # 78/68

It was there in infrared. So, how is it a lie? Care to explain? I thought not.

Good for you on this one Dr Postman ... the bullshit you spew got all over ya. NASA must be very proud of you right now!
 Quoting: User # 78/68

You mean like the manure that is usually all over you? And why would NASA be proud of him? They have no idea who he is.
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
Menow
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10/14/2009 03:15 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
These days, the vast majority of the Great Unwashed are too busy waddling around Wal-Mart in search of new and exciting NASCAR headwear to pay any attention to NASA. Or science. Or hygiene, for that matter, but I digress.

I think the space agency gave up years ago trying to capture the imagination of a people gone too damned stupid to understand the importance of space exploration.

Luckily, there have been enough people left in government to keep some funding going. But that's despite the public, not because of them.


I disagree. The health and direction of NASA is up to the US government, its leaders and the US military. These people are responsible for the demise and lackluster performance of the NASA programs and not due to the lack of imagination and direction of the unwashed masses. Without imaginative, educated and motivated leaders the nation fails. The unwashed masses have always wanted the latest popular trends . . . from the beginning of civilization.





These debunkers always look less than sincere, especially on this latest NASA flub. One them went so far as seeing a plume NOBODY else saw, NASA included. He has been called on it many times already, yet he all he does is bang his fists and stomps his feet and insists he SAW it, in infra-red. But, the fact is, it wasn't there. His LIE is right out there for all to see.

Good for you on this one Dr Postman ... the bullshit you spew got all over ya. NASA must be very proud of you right now!
 Quoting: User # 78/68


You're claiming there WAS no plume seen or recorded?
Anonymous Coward
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10/14/2009 03:15 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
More info and images from the LCROSS impact...

[link to planetary.org]

[link to spacefellowship.com]
Circuit Breaker

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10/14/2009 03:16 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Ah the hypocrisy! Kinda like Nancy pushing a stalled earth, a dark twin, the disappearance of the south pole, the wobble, planet X, exponential increase in earthquakes, when NOBODY else sees it, no instruments can detect it, and when anyone dares to point this out, Nancy and her followers throw a fit, and insist that they saw it with their own eyes. But the fact is, none of these things are there. Her LIES are right out there for all to see.

Good for you on this one, Luser ... the bullshit you spew got all over ya. Nancy must be very proud of you right now!
 Quoting: KeepingItReal

User's hypocrisy truly knows no bounds.
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
Menow
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10/14/2009 03:16 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
There was indeed an IR flash as the Centaur impacted.

[link to antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov]


An IR Flash is not what NASA hyped . . . they failed so far to meet the lowest expectations of their public.
 Quoting: George B


I believe that is correct.
Circuit Breaker

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10/14/2009 03:18 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
An IR Flash is not what NASA hyped . . . they failed so far to meet the lowest expectations of their public.
 Quoting: George B

Not exactly. As pointed out, due to the surrounding light, the plume that was present was simply obscured. So, other than the plume issue, how was this a failure?

Last Edited by Circuit Breaker on 10/14/2009 03:19 PM
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Anonymous Coward
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10/14/2009 03:18 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
There was indeed an IR flash as the Centaur impacted.

[link to antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov]


An IR Flash is not what NASA hyped . . . they failed so far to meet the lowest expectations of their public.
 Quoting: George B


Agreed, but that simply says that the surface composition was different than expected. Material was kicked up and captured in the spetragraphs. But again, all of the astrophotography web sites stated clearly that imaging anything would be very problematic due to the brightness of the surface.
KeepingItReal

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10/14/2009 03:20 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
There was indeed an IR flash as the Centaur impacted.

[link to antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov]


An IR Flash is not what NASA hyped . . . they failed so far to meet the lowest expectations of their public.
 Quoting: George B

And so what? Experiments don't always go as expected. The cool thing about science is that any result brings more questions, more things to solve. This isn't about meeting the expectations of the public, it's about furthering scientific understanding. I suspect it is more true that the media over hyped and placed perhaps unrealistic expectations, not NASA. I am sure that if the result had been spectacular, people would be accusing NASA of faking it with special effects.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Anonymous Coward
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10/14/2009 03:21 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Remember, all of the information sites stated that since the crater is in perpetual shadow, to become visible, the material would have to be ejected into a high enough arc to get into the sunlight, and even then it would only be of magnitude 8. If the surface is frozen harder than expected, then obviously the plume of material would be smaller, perhaps not even making it up into sunlight.
Circuit Breaker

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10/14/2009 03:27 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Yes...but see, you're starting to confuse the issue with facts.
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
Circuit Breaker

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10/14/2009 03:29 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Since User missed (or ignored) it on the previous page - you claim NASA is embarrassed by this event. I'd like to know what you mean by that and how you know with absolute certainty that they are. Success and failure are part of the learning process. So maybe this experiment didn't go as NASA had hoped...but why would that mean they're embarrassed? Care to explain that User....or were you really doing the one thing you say you don't do - making an assumption?
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
George B

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10/14/2009 03:33 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
This isn't about meeting the expectations of the public, it's about furthering scientific understanding. I suspect it is more true that the media over hyped and placed perhaps unrealistic expectations, not NASA.
 Quoting: KeepingItReal


I am sorry, NASA did this to themselves. They raised expectations by releasing the video below:
"LCROSS Mission Overview - NASA Official Video" ... there were other releases that also made the public's anticipation higher than what was so far delivered. If furthering scientific understanding was NASA's only mission . . why all the public exposure? The answer is they wanted the public exposure. Exposure usually equals political exposure which hopefully equals public funding. Sorry, this so far has been a PR bust.

Last Edited by George B on 10/14/2009 03:34 PM
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
KeepingItReal

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10/14/2009 03:33 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
It's only a fact if Luser pronounces it fact. And when his facts are debunked he leaves until the matter is safely buried by newer posts. Then he will be back to let rip another smelly fart.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Returner
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10/14/2009 03:44 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I doubt seriously whether Luser even knows what IR stands for, or what it implies for viewing the event.

Luser is exactly the kind of moron I was referring to as the 'Great Unwashed.'
George B

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10/14/2009 03:49 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
"Lackluster performance of the NASA programs"? Are you crazy, or simply ignorant?
Please try to keep up.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 719433




I am not saying in general that NASA is lackluster or a failure . . . though they have an impressive list of spectacular failures. I am saying they mismanaged this mission regarding public relations (PR) which is unfortunately as important many times as what you accomplish. Many, many worthwhile projects have been relegated to the trash bin of history for lack of public support and acceptance. NASA of all people should know this . . . I am amazed at their inability to so far use effective damage control.

Last Edited by George B on 10/14/2009 03:50 PM
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
KeepingItReal

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10/14/2009 04:00 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
"Lackluster performance of the NASA programs"? Are you crazy, or simply ignorant?
Please try to keep up.




I am not saying in general that NASA is lackluster or a failure . . . though they have an impressive list of spectacular failures. I am saying they mismanaged this mission regarding public relations (PR) which is unfortunately as important many times as what you accomplish. Many, many worthwhile projects have been relegated to the trash bin of history for lack of public support and acceptance. NASA of all people should know this . . . I am amazed at their inability to so far use effective damage control.
 Quoting: George B

You have to remember that as in any organization or corporation, PR often exists completely divorced from the realities of the areas that do the real work. I wouldn't fault the scientists because PR over hyped it for their own reasons.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Circuit Breaker

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10/14/2009 04:03 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I don't consider it a bust because the articles I read about the experiment prior to it happening said that any plume would be difficult to see. So I simply fail to see what the problem is. Those calling it a failure are doing so simply because it didn't meet their expectations.
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
Returner
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10/14/2009 04:08 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Those calling the impact a 'failure' are merely demonstrating their own ignorance -- the point of the impact was NEVER to produce a big flashy explosion just for the amusement of the mouth-breathers. The impact generated data about the Moon's composition, which is what it was designed to do.

If Joe Six-Pack doesn't understand this, then he needs to tune back in to wrasslin' and leave the important stuff to the grown-ups.
George B

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10/14/2009 04:11 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
You have to remember that as in any organization or corporation, PR often exists completely divorced from the realities of the areas that do the real work. I wouldn't fault the scientists because PR over hyped it for their own reasons.
 Quoting: KeepingItReal


I have not been critical of the scientists . . . it is the leadership I question. Bad leaders usually take the credit when things go great and try to run from the results when things go crunch. NASA still has time to recover from this situation by releasing as much data as possible. Anyone seen the analysis of the material released by the impacts?
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B

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